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Why is 65 pages of Customer Feedback regarding the Sorc class being ignored?

  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    MalagenR wrote: »
    The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.

    Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?

    OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?

    I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.

    But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
    • Shields no longer have a cast time
    • My shield is larger in PvP
    • Frag damage nerf got reverted
    • Dark Exchange was improved

    I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.

    So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.

    I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...

    Oh thank you, this is easy, below are my pain points pre-Murkmire, and then pain points post-Murkmire.

    Pre Murkmire -

    1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.

    2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory

    3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile

    4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use

    5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.

    Post Murkmire -

    1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.

    2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory

    3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile

    4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use - You made it less clunky by allowing us to use it with other skills - but the animation still locks up, isn't clean, and you can get stuck doing heavy attacks still - therefore it's still just as clunky as before - not really a fix, more of a band aid, and then you cut the dmg by 50%, making it not even close to other classes ultimates, that have no visible tells and can instagib you, we get a slow moving projectile that can be easily dodged.

    5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.

    6. Shields - by implementing crit resist on shields, but not allowing shields to crit, and also reducing their strength according to max health, you've nerfed their effectiveness without providing Sorc any other reliable means for defense, you've also completely eliminated the CP star Bastion, your shield values are still bugged. Also, shield stacking was never a problem against any competent player, in fact, Sorc defense was low. Sorc Defense needed to be high in PVE because it gave us enough effective HP to live through boss one shots without sacrificing our DPS, which was already on the significantly low spectrum in comparison to equally skilled DPS stamblades, etc. making it harder to find raid spots as a MagSorc with serious guilds.

    7. Boundless Storm nerf - you nerfed the major expedition, which was really the only reason to take this skill, as far as I know the skill has a 5m range, which forces you to be in melee range - is not a strong deterrent from people inflicting melee damage - and the resists it provides to a LA user are worthless considering how much more impen we will need to now stack to counter crit damage on shields - this was a mobility tool but you took away the mobility - don't see the point of that.

    8. Frags travel time - we already have some seriously easy to see skills to dodge - Reach is easily dodgeable / reflectable, Rune Cage is not easily predicted, Frags is easy to see coming, Overload is easy to see coming. Everything in our kit can be dodged by a competent player except for Curse - which doesn't do enough damage consistently to pressure anyone, allowing them to pull out DPS us while dodge rolling continuously and still having enough stamina sustain to continue dodge rolling and breaking free if we do land hard CC - this pigeon holes us into using cost increase poisons - if you don't use cost increase poison as a sorc you're doing something wrong

    9. Hard CC - the only very reliable hard CC we had was Rune cage, this was nerfed. Now the Sorc class has absolutely zero hard CC in its kit.

    Helpful for you? I don't see why you forced me to waste my time responding to you, when you admitted yourself in other threads that the class reps are being ignored. You told them shields didn't need touching, they touched them. You told them about Sorc skill bar issues, they made it worse. I don't know how to define a white knight, but I think you might be it, ZOS is using you as fodder for the rest of the community so that they don't need to do their jobs. You don't even get paid to be their mule or punching bag of the community and they don't bother to listen to your expertise, so.....are you a white knight?
  • MalagenR
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    I could go further into how Sorc's in PVP are almost required to slot Well Fitted and get up to 1200 stam regen to actually be survivable. You can always spot the ESO noob when it claims Sorc's are wearing damage sets.

    Almost every PVP sorc in the game is wearing 2 sustain sets and a defensive monster helm set. It's the only DPS class required to do this.

    In PVE we can wear max damage sets and still not come close to Stam DPS

    What is the point of playing Sorc? I didn't even get onto the topic of how Pets defense being based off shields made them essentially worthless in solo content like VMA, thankfully I don't use a pet build, but sucks for all the players who did.

    What is the point of using pets as a sorcerer now anyways?
  • Malem_Benign
    Malem_Benign
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
    Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.
    Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.

    It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.

    Already posted above the allegory.

    In yours - the question is not the color, but why you want to repaint that wall, that stands here 4 years and looks fine.
    Bored? No other walls with scratches and cracks to repair?
    The landlord decided that work needed to be done on the wall to correct some structural mistakes.

    In other words - "we do what we want". :smile: First honest answer on the forum for the past few weeks. Thanks for that.

    Well, that's fine, I can accept that, but why you talk about the useful feedback then? There is no useful feedback possible when things made this way. It's an illusion of feedback nothing more. :wink:
  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    Turelus wrote: »
    What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
    Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.
    Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.

    It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.

    You're not being reasonable at all about the number of pages. The number of pages is significant in comparison to the rest of the class feedback threads and betrays a serious problem. Most of the customers are left wondering if ZOS developers even understand how to play their own game. That is why I expect a response from the company providing me a service.

    I'd like to see their response to the number of feedback posts so that I can determine from their response whether or not they have any remote clue as to what they are doing. What process they use for determining how to make some of these changes would go a long way. The fact that they don't reply, then implement changes that garner almost 65 pages of feedback, and stay mum, tells me that their process involves darts and a random list of NB buffs with a bunch of other class nerfs on a board that Wrobel and friends play with on Wednesdays.
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
    Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.
    Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.

    It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.

    Already posted above the allegory.

    In yours - the question is not the color, but why you want to repaint that wall, that stands here 4 years and looks fine.
    Bored? No other walls with scratches and cracks to repair?
    The landlord decided that work needed to be done on the wall to correct some structural mistakes.

    In other words - "we do what we want". :smile: First honest answer on the forum for the past few weeks. Thanks for that.

    Well, that's fine, I can accept that, but why you talk about the useful feedback then? There is no useful feedback possible when things made this way. It's an illusion of feedback nothing more. :wink:
    Because there could have been useful feedback in getting the colour of the walls right. In some way there even was.

    The landlord originally wanted to just remove the wall entirely (casting times) but we explained how we didn't feel that was good for the rented accommodation. So instead they agreed to put back the wall, but it would have to be repainted. Then we sat there saying we hated all the colours.

    As I've said elsewhere, you won't and can't stop ZOS making changes you don't desire, it's their game and they will do what they want. We can however do our best to advise why and how things could be better done. Screaming "I hate this" doesn't do that very well.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Malem_Benign
    Malem_Benign
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
    Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.
    Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.

    It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.

    Already posted above the allegory.

    In yours - the question is not the color, but why you want to repaint that wall, that stands here 4 years and looks fine.
    Bored? No other walls with scratches and cracks to repair?
    The landlord decided that work needed to be done on the wall to correct some structural mistakes.

    In other words - "we do what we want". :smile: First honest answer on the forum for the past few weeks. Thanks for that.

    Well, that's fine, I can accept that, but why you talk about the useful feedback then? There is no useful feedback possible when things made this way. It's an illusion of feedback nothing more. :wink:
    Because there could have been useful feedback in getting the colour of the walls right. In some way there even was.

    The landlord originally wanted to just remove the wall entirely (casting times) but we explained how we didn't feel that was good for the rented accommodation. So instead they agreed to put back the wall, but it would have to be repainted. Then we sat there saying we hated all the colours.

    As I've said elsewhere, you won't and can't stop ZOS making changes you don't desire, it's their game and they will do what they want. We can however do our best to advise why and how things could be better done. Screaming "I hate this" doesn't do that very well.

    You missed one small thing. This landlord is the landlord in the game only. We're not bound to this land. And for sure this land exists only because we nourish this land with our time and... money. And if we all leave - this land will no longer exist along with its landlord. So we can stop ZOS making changes we don't desire at the end of the day. Hope they know it too.
  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
    Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.
    Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.

    It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.

    Already posted above the allegory.

    In yours - the question is not the color, but why you want to repaint that wall, that stands here 4 years and looks fine.
    Bored? No other walls with scratches and cracks to repair?
    The landlord decided that work needed to be done on the wall to correct some structural mistakes.

    In other words - "we do what we want". :smile: First honest answer on the forum for the past few weeks. Thanks for that.

    Well, that's fine, I can accept that, but why you talk about the useful feedback then? There is no useful feedback possible when things made this way. It's an illusion of feedback nothing more. :wink:
    Because there could have been useful feedback in getting the colour of the walls right. In some way there even was.

    The landlord originally wanted to just remove the wall entirely (casting times) but we explained how we didn't feel that was good for the rented accommodation. So instead they agreed to put back the wall, but it would have to be repainted. Then we sat there saying we hated all the colours.

    As I've said elsewhere, you won't and can't stop ZOS making changes you don't desire, it's their game and they will do what they want. We can however do our best to advise why and how things could be better done. Screaming "I hate this" doesn't do that very well.

    It's not that we hate the colors, it's that to us it appears that ZOS is color blind.
  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    Dear @ZOS_RobGarrett

    So.... How's that revenue looking? I see you're down just a few subscriptions, and I'm sorry to see that.

    Hopefully you guys can fix this before someone important notices the shortfall. I recommend more rainbow sparkle pony mounts in the clown store.

  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    Minalan wrote: »
    Dear @ZOS_RobGarrett

    So.... How's that revenue looking? I see you're down just a few subscriptions, and I'm sorry to see that.

    Hopefully you guys can fix this before someone important notices the shortfall. I recommend more rainbow sparkle pony mounts in the clown store.

    Where can you find financial statements? I will go analyze right now!
  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    MalagenR wrote: »
    Minalan wrote: »
    Dear @ZOS_RobGarrett

    So.... How's that revenue looking? I see you're down just a few subscriptions, and I'm sorry to see that.

    Hopefully you guys can fix this before someone important notices the shortfall. I recommend more rainbow sparkle pony mounts in the clown store.

    @Minalan Where can you find financial statements? I will go analyze right now!

  • Vahrokh
    Vahrokh
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    MalagenR wrote: »
    The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.

    Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?

    OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?

    I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.

    But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
    • Shields no longer have a cast time
    • My shield is larger in PvP
    • Frag damage nerf got reverted
    • Dark Exchange was improved

    I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.

    So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.

    I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...

    Pets die everywhere like crazy, all it takes is a regular NPC casting an AoE to 3 shot them. This happens everywhere but trials.

    I've been in groups and even with healers in the group pets still die all the time, they are now a waste of 4 ability slots.
  • Vahrokh
    Vahrokh
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    Turelus wrote: »
    What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
    Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.
    Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.

    It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.

    1) You are discarding the baby (well made, structured posts) with the washwater (the "noise"). This does not help at all, nor helps the sharp feeling you send to us, that you are playing damage control on ZOS account. Maybe it's not your intention, but it really feels so.

    2) You clearly don't have developer experience. We have the same kind of feedback on our software products we see here on this forum. With the difference our customers are corporate managers and employees... yet they still write feedback like you can see here.

    Raw feeback from large groups of unfiltered customer base is always like this. It's the QA task to read it and filter the good suggestions / feedback out of the raw mass and discard the rest.

    A company QA ignoring customers feedback because they feel too "tall and righteous" to take lowly end user feedback is a soon bankrupt company.
    Edited by Vahrokh on October 23, 2018 4:55PM
  • RebornV3x
    RebornV3x
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    Its funny ive never seen a developer literally nerf its way into the ground having played this patch a bit on PC this patch is garbage.

    at 4 years in there shouldn't be these massive changes every single patch why does it feel like I have to relearn this game every 3 months this patch its dumb.

    At this point in the game it should be changing a few percents here and there when it comes to abilities.

    ZOS has no idea what there doing or have any direction when it comes to classes. Its sad because the game is amazing and could easily unseat WOW but these sweeping changes force more and more players to leave.

    This is Morrowind 2.0 I wonder how many of my 5 guilds die because of this patch and how many of the regular players I play with leave when this hits on Xbox
    Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
    I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    MalagenR wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.

    Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?

    OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?

    I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.

    But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
    • Shields no longer have a cast time
    • My shield is larger in PvP
    • Frag damage nerf got reverted
    • Dark Exchange was improved

    I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.

    So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.

    I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...

    Oh thank you, this is easy, below are my pain points pre-Murkmire, and then pain points post-Murkmire.

    Pre Murkmire -

    1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.

    2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory

    3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile

    4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use

    5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.

    Post Murkmire -

    1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.

    2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory

    3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile

    4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use - You made it less clunky by allowing us to use it with other skills - but the animation still locks up, isn't clean, and you can get stuck doing heavy attacks still - therefore it's still just as clunky as before - not really a fix, more of a band aid, and then you cut the dmg by 50%, making it not even close to other classes ultimates, that have no visible tells and can instagib you, we get a slow moving projectile that can be easily dodged.

    5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.

    6. Shields - by implementing crit resist on shields, but not allowing shields to crit, and also reducing their strength according to max health, you've nerfed their effectiveness without providing Sorc any other reliable means for defense, you've also completely eliminated the CP star Bastion, your shield values are still bugged. Also, shield stacking was never a problem against any competent player, in fact, Sorc defense was low. Sorc Defense needed to be high in PVE because it gave us enough effective HP to live through boss one shots without sacrificing our DPS, which was already on the significantly low spectrum in comparison to equally skilled DPS stamblades, etc. making it harder to find raid spots as a MagSorc with serious guilds.

    7. Boundless Storm nerf - you nerfed the major expedition, which was really the only reason to take this skill, as far as I know the skill has a 5m range, which forces you to be in melee range - is not a strong deterrent from people inflicting melee damage - and the resists it provides to a LA user are worthless considering how much more impen we will need to now stack to counter crit damage on shields - this was a mobility tool but you took away the mobility - don't see the point of that.

    8. Frags travel time - we already have some seriously easy to see skills to dodge - Reach is easily dodgeable / reflectable, Rune Cage is not easily predicted, Frags is easy to see coming, Overload is easy to see coming. Everything in our kit can be dodged by a competent player except for Curse - which doesn't do enough damage consistently to pressure anyone, allowing them to pull out DPS us while dodge rolling continuously and still having enough stamina sustain to continue dodge rolling and breaking free if we do land hard CC - this pigeon holes us into using cost increase poisons - if you don't use cost increase poison as a sorc you're doing something wrong

    9. Hard CC - the only very reliable hard CC we had was Rune cage, this was nerfed. Now the Sorc class has absolutely zero hard CC in its kit.

    Helpful for you? I don't see why you forced me to waste my time responding to you, when you admitted yourself in other threads that the class reps are being ignored. You told them shields didn't need touching, they touched them. You told them about Sorc skill bar issues, they made it worse. I don't know how to define a white knight, but I think you might be it, ZOS is using you as fodder for the rest of the community so that they don't need to do their jobs. You don't even get paid to be their mule or punching bag of the community and they don't bother to listen to your expertise, so.....are you a white knight?

    You're barking up the wrong tree. I didn't nerf your class. And you don't have to waste time talking to me at all. Go ahead and be quiet or continue to bitterly type out that your class sucks. Suit yourself, I don't care.

    I asked because a lot has changed since that thread was started and if a realistic conversation is going to be had, then the positive changes that ZOS has made has to part of that conversation because ZOS is going to bring those up in a meeting.

    Zos most certainly does not heed the reps advice at times. But they have in some cases, notably with the classes, with templars. So it's possible with objective argument.
    Edited by Joy_Division on October 23, 2018 6:18PM
  • Facefister
    Facefister
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Because PvP isn't as important as PvPers want it to be. It is and will be a side-dish in literally every MMO, get used to it.
  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    MalagenR wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.

    Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?

    OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?

    I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.

    But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
    • Shields no longer have a cast time
    • My shield is larger in PvP
    • Frag damage nerf got reverted
    • Dark Exchange was improved

    I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.

    So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.

    I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...

    Oh thank you, this is easy, below are my pain points pre-Murkmire, and then pain points post-Murkmire.

    Pre Murkmire -

    1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.

    2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory

    3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile

    4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use

    5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.

    Post Murkmire -

    1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.

    2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory

    3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile

    4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use - You made it less clunky by allowing us to use it with other skills - but the animation still locks up, isn't clean, and you can get stuck doing heavy attacks still - therefore it's still just as clunky as before - not really a fix, more of a band aid, and then you cut the dmg by 50%, making it not even close to other classes ultimates, that have no visible tells and can instagib you, we get a slow moving projectile that can be easily dodged.

    5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.

    6. Shields - by implementing crit resist on shields, but not allowing shields to crit, and also reducing their strength according to max health, you've nerfed their effectiveness without providing Sorc any other reliable means for defense, you've also completely eliminated the CP star Bastion, your shield values are still bugged. Also, shield stacking was never a problem against any competent player, in fact, Sorc defense was low. Sorc Defense needed to be high in PVE because it gave us enough effective HP to live through boss one shots without sacrificing our DPS, which was already on the significantly low spectrum in comparison to equally skilled DPS stamblades, etc. making it harder to find raid spots as a MagSorc with serious guilds.

    7. Boundless Storm nerf - you nerfed the major expedition, which was really the only reason to take this skill, as far as I know the skill has a 5m range, which forces you to be in melee range - is not a strong deterrent from people inflicting melee damage - and the resists it provides to a LA user are worthless considering how much more impen we will need to now stack to counter crit damage on shields - this was a mobility tool but you took away the mobility - don't see the point of that.

    8. Frags travel time - we already have some seriously easy to see skills to dodge - Reach is easily dodgeable / reflectable, Rune Cage is not easily predicted, Frags is easy to see coming, Overload is easy to see coming. Everything in our kit can be dodged by a competent player except for Curse - which doesn't do enough damage consistently to pressure anyone, allowing them to pull out DPS us while dodge rolling continuously and still having enough stamina sustain to continue dodge rolling and breaking free if we do land hard CC - this pigeon holes us into using cost increase poisons - if you don't use cost increase poison as a sorc you're doing something wrong

    9. Hard CC - the only very reliable hard CC we had was Rune cage, this was nerfed. Now the Sorc class has absolutely zero hard CC in its kit.

    Helpful for you? I don't see why you forced me to waste my time responding to you, when you admitted yourself in other threads that the class reps are being ignored. You told them shields didn't need touching, they touched them. You told them about Sorc skill bar issues, they made it worse. I don't know how to define a white knight, but I think you might be it, ZOS is using you as fodder for the rest of the community so that they don't need to do their jobs. You don't even get paid to be their mule or punching bag of the community and they don't bother to listen to your expertise, so.....are you a white knight?

    You're barking up the wrong tree. I didn't nerf your class. And you don't have to waste time talking to me at all. Go ahead and be quiet or continue to bitterly type out that your class sucks. Suit yourself, I don't care.

    I asked because a lot has changed since that thread was started and if a realistic conversation is going to be had, then the positive changes that ZOS has made has to part of that conversation because ZOS is going to bring those up in a meeting.

    Zos most certainly does not heed the reps advice at times. But they have in some cases, notably with the classes, with templars. So it's possible with objective argument.

    I mean you're white knighting for ZOS and then acting like I'm the *** haha - it's rich - you're over here doing free work for people who are using you as a scapegoat. Try to remember that I didn't bark up your tree, you barked up mine. I responded with exactly what you wanted.

    I'd love to continue a civil discourse on the points I made above, do you agree / disagree? What are your thoughts on the ability of ranged classes to kite? etc.
  • Miswar
    Miswar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    MalagenR wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.

    Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?

    OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?

    I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.

    But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
    • Shields no longer have a cast time
    • My shield is larger in PvP
    • Frag damage nerf got reverted
    • Dark Exchange was improved

    I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.

    So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.

    I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...

    Oh thank you, this is easy, below are my pain points pre-Murkmire, and then pain points post-Murkmire.

    Pre Murkmire -

    1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.

    2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory

    3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile

    4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use

    5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.

    Post Murkmire -

    1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.

    2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory

    3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile

    4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use - You made it less clunky by allowing us to use it with other skills - but the animation still locks up, isn't clean, and you can get stuck doing heavy attacks still - therefore it's still just as clunky as before - not really a fix, more of a band aid, and then you cut the dmg by 50%, making it not even close to other classes ultimates, that have no visible tells and can instagib you, we get a slow moving projectile that can be easily dodged.

    5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.

    6. Shields - by implementing crit resist on shields, but not allowing shields to crit, and also reducing their strength according to max health, you've nerfed their effectiveness without providing Sorc any other reliable means for defense, you've also completely eliminated the CP star Bastion, your shield values are still bugged. Also, shield stacking was never a problem against any competent player, in fact, Sorc defense was low. Sorc Defense needed to be high in PVE because it gave us enough effective HP to live through boss one shots without sacrificing our DPS, which was already on the significantly low spectrum in comparison to equally skilled DPS stamblades, etc. making it harder to find raid spots as a MagSorc with serious guilds.

    7. Boundless Storm nerf - you nerfed the major expedition, which was really the only reason to take this skill, as far as I know the skill has a 5m range, which forces you to be in melee range - is not a strong deterrent from people inflicting melee damage - and the resists it provides to a LA user are worthless considering how much more impen we will need to now stack to counter crit damage on shields - this was a mobility tool but you took away the mobility - don't see the point of that.

    8. Frags travel time - we already have some seriously easy to see skills to dodge - Reach is easily dodgeable / reflectable, Rune Cage is not easily predicted, Frags is easy to see coming, Overload is easy to see coming. Everything in our kit can be dodged by a competent player except for Curse - which doesn't do enough damage consistently to pressure anyone, allowing them to pull out DPS us while dodge rolling continuously and still having enough stamina sustain to continue dodge rolling and breaking free if we do land hard CC - this pigeon holes us into using cost increase poisons - if you don't use cost increase poison as a sorc you're doing something wrong

    9. Hard CC - the only very reliable hard CC we had was Rune cage, this was nerfed. Now the Sorc class has absolutely zero hard CC in its kit.

    Helpful for you? I don't see why you forced me to waste my time responding to you, when you admitted yourself in other threads that the class reps are being ignored. You told them shields didn't need touching, they touched them. You told them about Sorc skill bar issues, they made it worse. I don't know how to define a white knight, but I think you might be it, ZOS is using you as fodder for the rest of the community so that they don't need to do their jobs. You don't even get paid to be their mule or punching bag of the community and they don't bother to listen to your expertise, so.....are you a white knight?
    MalagenR wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.

    Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?

    OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?

    I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.

    But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
    • Shields no longer have a cast time
    • My shield is larger in PvP
    • Frag damage nerf got reverted
    • Dark Exchange was improved

    I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.

    So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.

    I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...

    Oh thank you, this is easy, below are my pain points pre-Murkmire, and then pain points post-Murkmire.

    Pre Murkmire -

    1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.

    2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory

    3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile

    4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use

    5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.

    Post Murkmire -

    1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.

    2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory

    3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile

    4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use - You made it less clunky by allowing us to use it with other skills - but the animation still locks up, isn't clean, and you can get stuck doing heavy attacks still - therefore it's still just as clunky as before - not really a fix, more of a band aid, and then you cut the dmg by 50%, making it not even close to other classes ultimates, that have no visible tells and can instagib you, we get a slow moving projectile that can be easily dodged.

    5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.

    6. Shields - by implementing crit resist on shields, but not allowing shields to crit, and also reducing their strength according to max health, you've nerfed their effectiveness without providing Sorc any other reliable means for defense, you've also completely eliminated the CP star Bastion, your shield values are still bugged. Also, shield stacking was never a problem against any competent player, in fact, Sorc defense was low. Sorc Defense needed to be high in PVE because it gave us enough effective HP to live through boss one shots without sacrificing our DPS, which was already on the significantly low spectrum in comparison to equally skilled DPS stamblades, etc. making it harder to find raid spots as a MagSorc with serious guilds.

    7. Boundless Storm nerf - you nerfed the major expedition, which was really the only reason to take this skill, as far as I know the skill has a 5m range, which forces you to be in melee range - is not a strong deterrent from people inflicting melee damage - and the resists it provides to a LA user are worthless considering how much more impen we will need to now stack to counter crit damage on shields - this was a mobility tool but you took away the mobility - don't see the point of that.

    8. Frags travel time - we already have some seriously easy to see skills to dodge - Reach is easily dodgeable / reflectable, Rune Cage is not easily predicted, Frags is easy to see coming, Overload is easy to see coming. Everything in our kit can be dodged by a competent player except for Curse - which doesn't do enough damage consistently to pressure anyone, allowing them to pull out DPS us while dodge rolling continuously and still having enough stamina sustain to continue dodge rolling and breaking free if we do land hard CC - this pigeon holes us into using cost increase poisons - if you don't use cost increase poison as a sorc you're doing something wrong

    9. Hard CC - the only very reliable hard CC we had was Rune cage, this was nerfed. Now the Sorc class has absolutely zero hard CC in its kit.

    Helpful for you? I don't see why you forced me to waste my time responding to you, when you admitted yourself in other threads that the class reps are being ignored. You told them shields didn't need touching, they touched them. You told them about Sorc skill bar issues, they made it worse. I don't know how to define a white knight, but I think you might be it, ZOS is using you as fodder for the rest of the community so that they don't need to do their jobs. You don't even get paid to be their mule or punching bag of the community and they don't bother to listen to your expertise, so.....are you a white knight?

    Very well posted. If these so called "class represantives" are that unfamiliar with their classes than oh dear.. no wonder the game is going down the toilet. I guess there was crash test dummy representing sorc class at these so called "class represantive" meetings?

    Who is this representanve anyways?... since it seems we have other class represantives posting nonsense on these threads anyways. Drifting a bit from original point but very annoying to see people defending on issues that they do not have any clue off. Anyways...

    There has been significant decrease of population at PS4 EU already due these nerfs and ZoS not fixing stuff in general. I mean if 1/3 of +300 member guild have pretty much call it a day and more going out when RDR2 hits in few days (including me) .. good luck goig forward.

    This thread and original poster questioning about the feedback recieved by ZoS is very much valid. People are fed up with these constant class changing nerfs, fed up by lack of progress fixing game performance issues (it is gotten worse and worse), In Pvp about this heavy armour rubbish and unbalanced campaigns... and I guess in general just tired of the game.

    You can say that it is just me... by all means but the fact is that many have gone in recent weeks and exodus will large scale in fortcoming weeks due other products finally coming out.

    ...so maybe next time actually take those long feedback threads more seriously at ZoS.

    PS: When you check population accounts in forthcoming weeks when nerfmire dlc hits consoles due take out those that just logged into daily rewards or just did few writs. Check the number of people actually playing the game.... yes.. funny active player numbers isn't.... good luck with the product you will have hard time getting people back into game later after you have pissed off so many of your customers.
  • ForsakenSin
    ForsakenSin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would just like to add this.

    With all due respect to class ambassadors i don't know what what said between them and ZoS ect but personally my main is magica sorc.


    I understand the changes from 1 sec that were changed to 40%ect health but that is not good enough i don't know if class ambassadors have any power if ZoS is listening to their feed back so to me it comes down to this

    1) Class ambassadors were against changes and ZoS dose not care and just implemented them ( which is BS why did they ever implement class ambassadors in first place.)

    2) Class ambassadors were given a solution from 1sec to 40% health and they believe its fine ( which is bad that nobody else had any chance to concern their voice)

    I don't know what happened is there somewhere where we can view the discussion ? ...

    i just know if ZoS were saying they will nerf my favorite character ive spend years on playing, of course i would take it personally would be furious, angry, ranting and doing anything in my power to change those nerfs i would be fighting with nails and tooth, there is no way i would ever say something which can be interpreted as "yhea that nerf is fair it dose not affect me and other can quit or L2P like me"


    All these nerfs i fell like im going to end up playing as Black Knight.....

    ConcernedSomeCrow-max-1mb.gif



    Edited by ForsakenSin on October 24, 2018 3:30AM
    "By many i am seen as hero...as a savior of the Tamriel i will not stop until every Daedra every evil there is in Tamriel is vanquish by my hands..
    However i do this for my own purpose to gain trust of mortals to worship me and to eliminate my competition i will not bend my knee to lead your army to serve you Molag Bal , i will simply just take it from you.."--- Forsaken Sin( Magica Sorc)



    Arise From Darkness Forsaken SIn
    "You have been a loyal High Elf Magica Sorc
    Conjure of Darkness, Master of Magic
    Killer of Molag Bal and Savior of Ebonheart Pact
    Until Dark Brotherhood killed you...
    but now..NOW its time to Arise From Darkness once again..."

  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    It... Hasn't?

    You got shields changed to a usable state, and in certain situations its buffed. Dark deal was slightly unnerfed. Frags got a bit more dmg on it.

    Yeah they have done everything their own way, as usual. But Warden, DK and templar have had literally no changed based on feedback. At all. So not ignored.

    Are you sure? Usable state? Do you play sorc or no? Seems like no.

    Warden also was nerfed btw. Especially tank build. No damage and aggro anymore.

    So what could it be? A message from the, I don't know player from other game?

    Shields, vs non broken enchant meta builds, are fine. However the problem with them is because of oblivion dmg, and old shields vs new shields change nothing. They are in a usable state. Less dmg from some, more from others.
    Do you know what you are on about or no? Seems like no.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Feanor
    Feanor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Turelus

    It’s awesome you deliberately picked my short posts where I was just voicing my disbelief. All I do is rant I guess.

    Your landlord has a funny idea of treating his residents. While he dismantled the wall on one side he makes the next neighbor’s room even nicer (Bleeds and Enchant procs) while both pay the same.

    How can anyone justify these “adjustments” when the already favored spec just got more goodies (the Major Expedition Nerf hits everyone)?
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Feanor wrote: »
    Turelus

    It’s awesome you deliberately picked my short posts where I was just voicing my disbelief. All I do is rant I guess.

    Your landlord has a funny idea of treating his residents. While he dismantled the wall on one side he makes the next neighbor’s room even nicer (Bleeds and Enchant procs) while both pay the same.

    How can anyone justify these “adjustments” when the already favored spec just got more goodies (the Major Expedition Nerf hits everyone)?
    I did say there were useful posts later, and you did champion the most useful non-official thread. I just wanted to make a point to everyone saying "65 pages" that in reality it wasn't entirely 65 pages of useful feedback.

    The landlord idea was stupid, but honestly the debate was getting to the point I was giving up trying to get my point across.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    Turelus

    It’s awesome you deliberately picked my short posts where I was just voicing my disbelief. All I do is rant I guess.

    Your landlord has a funny idea of treating his residents. While he dismantled the wall on one side he makes the next neighbor’s room even nicer (Bleeds and Enchant procs) while both pay the same.

    How can anyone justify these “adjustments” when the already favored spec just got more goodies (the Major Expedition Nerf hits everyone)?
    I did say there were useful posts later, and you did champion the most useful non-official thread. I just wanted to make a point to everyone saying "65 pages" that in reality it wasn't entirely 65 pages of useful feedback.

    The landlord idea was stupid, but honestly the debate was getting to the point I was giving up trying to get my point across.

    The landlord is actually a very useful analogy. Both a landlord and ZOS are owners and as such can do everything law permits, but with respect to the customers will not go to the boundary. And ZOS? Touches the boundary constantly.

    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • Lumenn
    Lumenn
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    They DID respond years ago, and it covers everything since. "you know you don't have to be here right?" After that, what else is there? I don't agree with the changes, I'm watching as it almost seems they are headed towards forced grouping(and EQ was enough of that for me thank you) but it's their game, win or fail.
  • Turelus
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    Lumenn wrote: »
    They DID respond years ago, and it covers everything since. "you know you don't have to be here right?" After that, what else is there? I don't agree with the changes, I'm watching as it almost seems they are headed towards forced grouping(and EQ was enough of that for me thank you) but it's their game, win or fail.
    TBH I wish ZOS had more freedom to reply like that more often, there are more than a few snarky posters on these forums who deserve to be called out for it. His reply was pretty fair (IMO) considering he was doing an AMA of sorts and someone wanted to make a snarky comment to him.

    Link for those who want to judge for themselves.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3160562/#Comment_3160562
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Lumenn
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Lumenn wrote: »
    They DID respond years ago, and it covers everything since. "you know you don't have to be here right?" After that, what else is there? I don't agree with the changes, I'm watching as it almost seems they are headed towards forced grouping(and EQ was enough of that for me thank you) but it's their game, win or fail.
    TBH I wish ZOS had more freedom to reply like that more often, there are more than a few snarky posters on these forums who deserve to be called out for it. His reply was pretty fair (IMO) considering he was doing an AMA of sorts and someone wanted to make a snarky comment to him.

    Link for those who want to judge for themselves.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3160562/#Comment_3160562

    Oh I don't disagree. As I said I don't LIKE all the changes, but it IS their game. Any other response will drown them in snarky, rude, and unhelpful dialogue. They ARE watching the forums, it's just unproductive to respond. Play what they make, or move on(I quit EQ years ago when it wasn't fun. If this becomes so I'll do the same. Still having fun though)
  • Pops_ND_Irish
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    Because there are 65 pages of Customer Feedback regarding the Sorc class !
    Same thing over and over. How do you know its being ignored ? Cant be fixed overnight. Try working a little harder and use some strategy instead of mashing the same button.
    Edited by Pops_ND_Irish on October 24, 2018 3:07PM
  • ProbablePaul
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    It's really lazy to say they just don't care. It's obvious that they do care, however at the end of the day, it is their game and they haven't screwed it up, yet. So there's that. But, you aren't powerless here; you do have some leverage. The only problem is that your leverage is quitting the game, which doesn't help your position, if you're trying to improve the experience while playing ESO. Either way, you'll reconcile these differences, somehow.
    Edited by ProbablePaul on October 24, 2018 9:32PM
    Bosmer Melee Magicka Nightblade
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Lumenn wrote: »
    They DID respond years ago, and it covers everything since. "you know you don't have to be here right?" After that, what else is there? I don't agree with the changes, I'm watching as it almost seems they are headed towards forced grouping(and EQ was enough of that for me thank you) but it's their game, win or fail.
    TBH I wish ZOS had more freedom to reply like that more often, there are more than a few snarky posters on these forums who deserve to be called out for it. His reply was pretty fair (IMO) considering he was doing an AMA of sorts and someone wanted to make a snarky comment to him.

    Link for those who want to judge for themselves.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3160562/#Comment_3160562

    This caught my attention. What's worrisome, is that at the time I looked that post up, it had a staggering 83 awesomes.
    I don't judge Rich, his reaction was human and appropriate. But it was also unhelpful and unfriendly. Not awesome.
    I see players trying hard to provide constructive feedback and insights. They often receive smug comments and belittlement for their efforts. Yet, a ZOS employee can post... this, and gets a ton of praise. Hm...
    This community must drop the rose-tinted glasses, shatter them and throw a nuclear bomb at the fragments.
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Lumenn wrote: »
    They DID respond years ago, and it covers everything since. "you know you don't have to be here right?" After that, what else is there? I don't agree with the changes, I'm watching as it almost seems they are headed towards forced grouping(and EQ was enough of that for me thank you) but it's their game, win or fail.
    TBH I wish ZOS had more freedom to reply like that more often, there are more than a few snarky posters on these forums who deserve to be called out for it. His reply was pretty fair (IMO) considering he was doing an AMA of sorts and someone wanted to make a snarky comment to him.

    Link for those who want to judge for themselves.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3160562/#Comment_3160562

    This caught my attention. What's worrisome, is that at the time I looked that post up, it had a staggering 83 awesomes.
    I don't judge Rich, his reaction was human and appropriate. But it was also unhelpful and unfriendly. Not awesome.
    I see players trying hard to provide constructive feedback and insights. They often receive smug comments and belittlement for their efforts. Yet, a ZOS employee can post... this, and gets a ton of praise. Hm...
    This community must drop the rose-tinted glasses, shatter them and throw a nuclear bomb at the fragments.
    However in the thread Rich replied well to everyone who was constructive and joining in the right way. He only told someone who was being a jerk they didn't have to be in that thread.

    ZOS staff shouldn't have to put up with the kind of snark they get from people. They're more than willing to take constructive criticism about the game and their updates, for those that have attended any events Rich has been at he's very approachable and will try to answer the hard blunt questions. However if you're a jerk about it, don't expect engagement.

    Also if anyone is posting smug comments or belittling other community members in a thread and you feel it's not fair on the poster. Hit the report button for that post, normally reported posts are moderated within a couple of hours if ZOS agrees with your assessment of it.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Lumenn wrote: »
    They DID respond years ago, and it covers everything since. "you know you don't have to be here right?" After that, what else is there? I don't agree with the changes, I'm watching as it almost seems they are headed towards forced grouping(and EQ was enough of that for me thank you) but it's their game, win or fail.
    TBH I wish ZOS had more freedom to reply like that more often, there are more than a few snarky posters on these forums who deserve to be called out for it. His reply was pretty fair (IMO) considering he was doing an AMA of sorts and someone wanted to make a snarky comment to him.

    Link for those who want to judge for themselves.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3160562/#Comment_3160562

    This caught my attention. What's worrisome, is that at the time I looked that post up, it had a staggering 83 awesomes.
    I don't judge Rich, his reaction was human and appropriate. But it was also unhelpful and unfriendly. Not awesome.
    I see players trying hard to provide constructive feedback and insights. They often receive smug comments and belittlement for their efforts. Yet, a ZOS employee can post... this, and gets a ton of praise. Hm...
    This community must drop the rose-tinted glasses, shatter them and throw a nuclear bomb at the fragments.
    However in the thread Rich replied well to everyone who was constructive and joining in the right way. He only told someone who was being a jerk they didn't have to be in that thread.

    ZOS staff shouldn't have to put up with the kind of snark they get from people. They're more than willing to take constructive criticism about the game and their updates, for those that have attended any events Rich has been at he's very approachable and will try to answer the hard blunt questions. However if you're a jerk about it, don't expect engagement.

    Also if anyone is posting smug comments or belittling other community members in a thread and you feel it's not fair on the poster. Hit the report button for that post, normally reported posts are moderated within a couple of hours if ZOS agrees with your assessment of it.

    Oh, let me clarify, I'm with Rich. It was a natural response and it was fitting. It was just unnecessary, but that's hardly an issue on an internet forum.

    I have discussed my real concern with Joy before: I think the community is a liiittle to soft with ZOS. I don't know how to correctly fix that. Being more aggressive in discussions is not the right way. Having the reps be stern on certain community opinions (e.g. shield cast time) is a good possibility, but there are limits, now we have a health cap.

    If I were to use the landlord metaphor, I'd say the landlord was nearly deaf and only loud enough screaming can reach him. But of course, that harbors problems.

    You know, just for one patch, ONE, I'd like to see Wrobel take a step back and implement community suggestions instead of almost purely his own. It would be interesting to see what came out of it.
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