Juhasow wrote: »

With the upcoming changes to mobility I feel like it's time to address dragonknights. This class having acces to strong snare through passive , 2 strong immobilizes where 1 is also a stun that goes through dodge and block which requires 2 global cooldown and 2x more stamina to deal with , immunity to snares and immobilizes , high tankiness and decent dmg cannot exist in that form after all mobility is nerfed down. Nerfs to DK are more then needed if all mobility is going to be nerfed otherwise class that is (despite "popular" opinion) already strong will become dominant especially in non CP enviroment.

Warmth passive that reduce speed movement was already nerfed in previous updates, same for fossilization it has been nerfed multiple times. Buff for DK's are more than needed, especially with the minor/major evasion update, leap will be less effective for example, engulfing flames also, plus light armour passives will give snare reduction so there' no need to add nerfs on top of that.

Xvorg wrote: »

EliteWarrior wrote: »

I've had my main as a StamDK for a year now, from my first day of playing. I love it it's great. but it's not OP at anything, I know that sounds silly but most stam/mag classes have something really going for them, while StamDK does not. Glad to see nothing got ruined or anything with the upcoming patch, that would've ended StamDK. Hopefully a patch soon will give us a buff of some sort, because we deserve it lol

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439990/pvp-zos-why-do-you-hate-dks-so-much-the-ninja-nerfs-of-murkmire#latest

nothing? You got wrecked in your ulti

Eh, DBoS takes a hit but onslaught is still good. Leap is a meme.

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Andele, what I mean is, as long as one wants to run AY on front bar (and there are benefits to run it), they're forced into only using three skills on back bar to keep stacks up - and since it's normally bow bar, it will likely be the trio of Hail + Poison Injection + Caltrops or similar. Front bar's full, using Igneous on back bar will make one drop AY stacks (and spend time rebuilding them on front bar). I fear it will just reinforce that typical group composition - DK tank for Igneous (no need to selfishly run it and waste GCD when tank can give it) + Engulfing, maybe warden to contribute Major Force. We're getting useful group utility - but at the expense of being firmer shoehorned into tank role.

I wonder if it'd make sense to give Igneous some 'selfish' component that would make it worth for DDs to slot it individually; something that would worth including it in rotation during group play.

You are right the 4 skills on bow bar will cause AY to fall off. However it's not that big a loss if it's only every 2 rotations. Eruption is actually a decent option if you get major brutality from potions. I will be running igneous weaps (as I always have) in dungeons and eruption in trials when I'm using good pots.

I wouldn't turn down a buff to igneous weaps, but I feel stamDK is in a good place with murkmire and would prefer to have no dev attention (given how that usually goes).

Juhasow wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

With the upcoming changes to mobility I feel like it's time to address dragonknights. This class having acces to strong snare through passive , 2 strong immobilizes where 1 is also a stun that goes through dodge and block which requires 2 global cooldown and 2x more stamina to deal with , immunity to snares and immobilizes , high tankiness and decent dmg cannot exist in that form after all mobility is nerfed down. Nerfs to DK are more then needed if all mobility is going to be nerfed otherwise class that is (despite "popular" opinion) already strong will become dominant especially in non CP enviroment.

Lol

jcm2606 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

With the upcoming changes to mobility I feel like it's time to address dragonknights. This class having acces to strong snare through passive , 2 strong immobilizes where 1 is also a stun that goes through dodge and block which requires 2 global cooldown and 2x more stamina to deal with , immunity to snares and immobilizes , high tankiness and decent dmg cannot exist in that form after all mobility is nerfed down. Nerfs to DK are more then needed if all mobility is going to be nerfed otherwise class that is (despite "popular" opinion) already strong will become dominant especially in non CP enviroment.

StShoot wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

With the upcoming changes to mobility I feel like it's time to address dragonknights. This class having acces to strong snare through passive , 2 strong immobilizes where 1 is also a stun that goes through dodge and block which requires 2 global cooldown and 2x more stamina to deal with , immunity to snares and immobilizes , high tankiness and decent dmg cannot exist in that form after all mobility is nerfed down. Nerfs to DK are more then needed if all mobility is going to be nerfed otherwise class that is (despite "popular" opinion) already strong will become dominant especially in non CP enviroment.

Not sure if you are trolling but yeah regarding the snare passive, i would love if the take that away from dk and give us a cost reduction passive

@jcm2606 , @FloppyTouch , @StShoot can any of You constructively prove me wrong or due to lack of arguments You'll preffer above way of "feedback" ?

There's nothing for them to prove. You just need to l2p. Fossilize has an easy, responsive break free unlike the broken fear, rune cage, and timestop breakfree.

I'm guessing you're one of those who keep doing bash animation after breaking free from the stun, not understanding that you're rooted.

Yey new patchnotes are up and nothing for dk or anything.... So that means that **** goes live, there are no new natch potes next week right ?

Juhasow wrote: »

Suryoyo wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Suryoyo wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

With the upcoming changes to mobility I feel like it's time to address dragonknights. This class having acces to strong snare through passive , 2 strong immobilizes where 1 is also a stun that goes through dodge and block which requires 2 global cooldown and 2x more stamina to deal with , immunity to snares and immobilizes , high tankiness and decent dmg cannot exist in that form after all mobility is nerfed down. Nerfs to DK are more then needed if all mobility is going to be nerfed otherwise class that is (despite "popular" opinion) already strong will become dominant especially in non CP enviroment.

Warmth passive that reduce speed movement was already nerfed in previous updates, same for fossilization it has been nerfed multiple times. Buff for DK's are more than needed, especially with the minor/major evasion update, leap will be less effective for example, engulfing flames also, plus light armour passives will give snare reduction so there' no need to add nerfs on top of that.

Warmth wasnt the only snare that was nerfed and because of that it's still decent. It's very common misconception to look at certain things without seeing bigger picture and full context. It happens constantly that despite lot of cries about certain change/s mostly created by the users of build that change/s are effecting somehow it turns out that build is in fact stronger then it was and QQs were mostly created because their creators were not seeing bigger picture . It remindes me times where nightblades were saying that Morrowind changes killed their sustain but since everyones sustain was nerfed nightblade still had very good sustain when compared to other classes. We're talking here about passive snare not used actively from 1 ability but applied passively from multiple abilities so there is no effort needed to keep it up. You cannot look at changes to certain things and say "it was nerfed so it 's ok now" without looking how it impacts gameplay in reality. Sometimes to make certain things balanced there is much more then 1 attempt needed. I wouldn't say that major/minor evasion change is a nerf to DK if anything then opposite since You will no longer miss with any of Your abilities to the passive miss chance and it wont be possible any longer to stack shuffle/blur with blade cloak since both will be the same buff now. Light armor in fact recived snares reduction passive but also speed buffs nerf plus how new passive adress beeing permanently rooted or being drained out of stamina because of permanent need to roll dodge out of immobilize ? With nerfs to speed buffs and immobilize/snare immunity it will be easier then ever for dragonknight to sit on someone constantly. This news are especially bad for non CP enviroment.

Snare immunity at hight cost paired with a mediocre sustain (thanks to the multiple 'reworking' of battle roar) also you can avoid being in fossilisation range, block chains, dodgeroll, mist form if you're vampire, foward momentum, psijic ulti is a possibility, Templars can use their skill that push you back same with destro skill, pots, keep DK far away if you're not a melee class, it has many counter play.

Speed nerf is as you said an issue for every classes, DK's also affected like other classes. Light armor received snare reduction + sprint cost reduction if i'm not mistaken, which helps keeping DK's far away. Being drained out of stamina ? If you feel you lack stamina, go tri stat food ?

Half of what You've posted is barely understandable so i'll answer only on those things I think I understood correctly. As for mediocre sustain I think it's more like build choice. At it's core dk is far from having sustain issues both stam and mag and the only question is do You preffer to play certain playstyle or not. Too many people want DK to be burst killing machine which is not how DK works. Rework of battle roar is not that bad , yes You gain less main resource but You get more overall resources so You can make use out of it and either block/dodge more on mag dk or use more class abilities on stam dk which through helping hands passive will restore You stamina. All things You propose to avoid beeing fossilize are either situational or simply silly. Yes You can avoid being fossilized by not being in fossilize range but do You really belive dk have issues with being 8 meters from the target ? By that logic You can avoid everything by being out of the range of that thing lol. Chains morphed into empowering chains cannot be blocked and this morph is much better choice overall , fossilize and empowering chains cannot be dodged and who is spending 100% time in mist form or who is using fossilize on target in mist form because those are the only scenarios where it could be viable counter. Sorry to say that but I think You lack of experience to undertake conversation about dk. If You really think that snare and speed reduction will help magicka builds against beeing perma rooted or snared by 70-80% You are really mistaken. It can be somehow usefull combined with accelerate ability from psijic order skill line but it's still far from being decent. That advice with going tri stat food is cute and just proves You either trolling or have little idea what You're talking about if Yo giving people ideas like that. Do You really think I would call it a problem if people would be drained out of stamina if they have low stamnina at 1st place ?

Ok, it's always fun to see somebody defending the constant nerfs on a class that after 1.6 has never been the OP class it used to be.

All your comments and suggestions are theorethical. Sure, Battle Roar gives you more overall resources, but you fail at see that BR it's not a resourcer recovery machine on demand. It needs to be used paired with a ulti, ulti that's the only way to secure a kill on PvP. Most classes can save that ulti for what it was designed, a big punch in the precise moment, to kill the enemy, but no DK. DK cannot do that simply because after getting full ulti, saving ulti its just losing resources. So the pace it's not dictated for the conditions of the enemy (I drop my ulti when he's about to die), but to your own conditions (I drop the ulti when I'm half dead). Considering that almost no ulti can be used outside battle, disengaging and dropping an ulti to get resources back it's just plainly stupid. Exceptions can be Horn and Bubble from the Alliance war line, but using those without a group is not a wise move. Another exception could be panacea, but using a healing ulti proven you can recover heal (and resources) just by using any other ulti isn't that brilliant too.
Why the change ZoS did is a nerf? Simply because good DKs always aimed for a big health pool and a big main resource pool (stam or mag), so, the recovery was on what you needed. In other words, droping an ulti acted as a heal + a pot. That also encouraged DKs to get more expensive ultis and play around ulti generation. Since that's not possible now, you have to revolve around cheap ultis and pray that the conditions in the fight allow you to drop the ulti and recover resources when you need them and, at the same time, your oponent is ready for the killing blow. If any of those conditions is not present when using the ulti, you are just wasting it.

Regarding the chains theme, chains as a gap closer seems fine in theory, so the question is, why do stamDKs do not use it despite it gives empower (consider it used to be the good old empower some time ago,) and major exp? Answer is quite simple, Chains is not a reliable skill for a gap closer. Having a delay when the chain is thrown, another when it hits, and another when you are pulled towards the objective is more than enough to let the opponent know you are going for him, so he can prepare him/herself to what comes next (which is 99% of the time a foss and 1% of the time a talon). That doesn't happens with other gap closers. Tele strike hits and immediately you can use fear without the enemy knowing. Toppling charge stuns on hit and it can be followed immediately by sweep. Weapon gap closers are even much better, crit charge always crit, and shield charge as a stun associated (which is very useful for mDks using lash).

Perma root is another story. In paper looks great, but roots are easily broken by dodge roll. Apart from that, it's a very expensive skill that no DK in heavy/medium armor can spam like there's no tomorrow. In laggy environments could deplete easily your mana pool. It's strong? Yes, but only if you make a build to spam it, and i doubt any DK would ever have fun doing that.

Finally, about your suggestion for Dks is to go tristat food, I'm quite surprised for that. We have over one thousand pages discussing DK bad sustain, proven it has no natural resource recovery passives outside combat and you bring that to the table?
Seriously I don't know how can I start bashing that idea... Have you ever looked at the cost of most of the skills DK has? On a class that is rewarded for playing heavy armor? Have you read about how the cost added to power lash is just an extra drain of resources on a class that does not need more resources nerfs? A class that must go offensive to have some killing potential, or be built to resources to survive, using a wet noodle as main weapon(I suppose you know about the old wet noodle), And you give that "piece of advice"?

If you want bad DKs in PvP, well, you are doing a great job. Just consider that ZoS has helped a lot.


P.S. Saddly, the game has been dumbed down for other classes except for DK. The sane decision for any DK is to stop playing, otherwise unfun is gonna become stressful, or even painful. Sure, you can try those other classes, but will that reward you?

I just wanted a knight with a sword set on fire...

Veg wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

With the upcoming changes to mobility I feel like it's time to address dragonknights. This class having acces to strong snare through passive , 2 strong immobilizes where 1 is also a stun that goes through dodge and block which requires 2 global cooldown and 2x more stamina to deal with , immunity to snares and immobilizes , high tankiness and decent dmg cannot exist in that form after all mobility is nerfed down. Nerfs to DK are more then needed if all mobility is going to be nerfed otherwise class that is (despite "popular" opinion) already strong will become dominant especially in non CP enviroment.

"become immune to immobilize effects for 2 seconds lol"

High tankiness AND good damage?!? like the stam wardens that were already the best pvp class and got buffs in nerfmire?

Forums are at it again.

Juhasow wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Suryoyo wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Suryoyo wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

With the upcoming changes to mobility I feel like it's time to address dragonknights. This class having acces to strong snare through passive , 2 strong immobilizes where 1 is also a stun that goes through dodge and block which requires 2 global cooldown and 2x more stamina to deal with , immunity to snares and immobilizes , high tankiness and decent dmg cannot exist in that form after all mobility is nerfed down. Nerfs to DK are more then needed if all mobility is going to be nerfed otherwise class that is (despite "popular" opinion) already strong will become dominant especially in non CP enviroment.

Warmth passive that reduce speed movement was already nerfed in previous updates, same for fossilization it has been nerfed multiple times. Buff for DK's are more than needed, especially with the minor/major evasion update, leap will be less effective for example, engulfing flames also, plus light armour passives will give snare reduction so there' no need to add nerfs on top of that.

Warmth wasnt the only snare that was nerfed and because of that it's still decent. It's very common misconception to look at certain things without seeing bigger picture and full context. It happens constantly that despite lot of cries about certain change/s mostly created by the users of build that change/s are effecting somehow it turns out that build is in fact stronger then it was and QQs were mostly created because their creators were not seeing bigger picture . It remindes me times where nightblades were saying that Morrowind changes killed their sustain but since everyones sustain was nerfed nightblade still had very good sustain when compared to other classes. We're talking here about passive snare not used actively from 1 ability but applied passively from multiple abilities so there is no effort needed to keep it up. You cannot look at changes to certain things and say "it was nerfed so it 's ok now" without looking how it impacts gameplay in reality. Sometimes to make certain things balanced there is much more then 1 attempt needed. I wouldn't say that major/minor evasion change is a nerf to DK if anything then opposite since You will no longer miss with any of Your abilities to the passive miss chance and it wont be possible any longer to stack shuffle/blur with blade cloak since both will be the same buff now. Light armor in fact recived snares reduction passive but also speed buffs nerf plus how new passive adress beeing permanently rooted or being drained out of stamina because of permanent need to roll dodge out of immobilize ? With nerfs to speed buffs and immobilize/snare immunity it will be easier then ever for dragonknight to sit on someone constantly. This news are especially bad for non CP enviroment.

Snare immunity at hight cost paired with a mediocre sustain (thanks to the multiple 'reworking' of battle roar) also you can avoid being in fossilisation range, block chains, dodgeroll, mist form if you're vampire, foward momentum, psijic ulti is a possibility, Templars can use their skill that push you back same with destro skill, pots, keep DK far away if you're not a melee class, it has many counter play.

Speed nerf is as you said an issue for every classes, DK's also affected like other classes. Light armor received snare reduction + sprint cost reduction if i'm not mistaken, which helps keeping DK's far away. Being drained out of stamina ? If you feel you lack stamina, go tri stat food ?

Half of what You've posted is barely understandable so i'll answer only on those things I think I understood correctly. As for mediocre sustain I think it's more like build choice. At it's core dk is far from having sustain issues both stam and mag and the only question is do You preffer to play certain playstyle or not. Too many people want DK to be burst killing machine which is not how DK works. Rework of battle roar is not that bad , yes You gain less main resource but You get more overall resources so You can make use out of it and either block/dodge more on mag dk or use more class abilities on stam dk which through helping hands passive will restore You stamina. All things You propose to avoid beeing fossilize are either situational or simply silly. Yes You can avoid being fossilized by not being in fossilize range but do You really belive dk have issues with being 8 meters from the target ? By that logic You can avoid everything by being out of the range of that thing lol. Chains morphed into empowering chains cannot be blocked and this morph is much better choice overall , fossilize and empowering chains cannot be dodged and who is spending 100% time in mist form or who is using fossilize on target in mist form because those are the only scenarios where it could be viable counter. Sorry to say that but I think You lack of experience to undertake conversation about dk. If You really think that snare and speed reduction will help magicka builds against beeing perma rooted or snared by 70-80% You are really mistaken. It can be somehow usefull combined with accelerate ability from psijic order skill line but it's still far from being decent. That advice with going tri stat food is cute and just proves You either trolling or have little idea what You're talking about if Yo giving people ideas like that. Do You really think I would call it a problem if people would be drained out of stamina if they have low stamnina at 1st place ?

Ok, it's always fun to see somebody defending the constant nerfs on a class that after 1.6 has never been the OP class it used to be.

All your comments and suggestions are theorethical. Sure, Battle Roar gives you more overall resources, but you fail at see that BR it's not a resourcer recovery machine on demand. It needs to be used paired with a ulti, ulti that's the only way to secure a kill on PvP. Most classes can save that ulti for what it was designed, a big punch in the precise moment, to kill the enemy, but no DK. DK cannot do that simply because after getting full ulti, saving ulti its just losing resources. So the pace it's not dictated for the conditions of the enemy (I drop my ulti when he's about to die), but to your own conditions (I drop the ulti when I'm half dead). Considering that almost no ulti can be used outside battle, disengaging and dropping an ulti to get resources back it's just plainly stupid. Exceptions can be Horn and Bubble from the Alliance war line, but using those without a group is not a wise move. Another exception could be panacea, but using a healing ulti proven you can recover heal (and resources) just by using any other ulti isn't that brilliant too.
Why the change ZoS did is a nerf? Simply because good DKs always aimed for a big health pool and a big main resource pool (stam or mag), so, the recovery was on what you needed. In other words, droping an ulti acted as a heal + a pot. That also encouraged DKs to get more expensive ultis and play around ulti generation. Since that's not possible now, you have to revolve around cheap ultis and pray that the conditions in the fight allow you to drop the ulti and recover resources when you need them and, at the same time, your oponent is ready for the killing blow. If any of those conditions is not present when using the ulti, you are just wasting it.

Regarding the chains theme, chains as a gap closer seems fine in theory, so the question is, why do stamDKs do not use it despite it gives empower (consider it used to be the good old empower some time ago,) and major exp? Answer is quite simple, Chains is not a reliable skill for a gap closer. Having a delay when the chain is thrown, another when it hits, and another when you are pulled towards the objective is more than enough to let the opponent know you are going for him, so he can prepare him/herself to what comes next (which is 99% of the time a foss and 1% of the time a talon). That doesn't happens with other gap closers. Tele strike hits and immediately you can use fear without the enemy knowing. Toppling charge stuns on hit and it can be followed immediately by sweep. Weapon gap closers are even much better, crit charge always crit, and shield charge as a stun associated (which is very useful for mDks using lash).

Perma root is another story. In paper looks great, but roots are easily broken by dodge roll. Apart from that, it's a very expensive skill that no DK in heavy/medium armor can spam like there's no tomorrow. In laggy environments could deplete easily your mana pool. It's strong? Yes, but only if you make a build to spam it, and i doubt any DK would ever have fun doing that.

Finally, about your suggestion for Dks is to go tristat food, I'm quite surprised for that. We have over one thousand pages discussing DK bad sustain, proven it has no natural resource recovery passives outside combat and you bring that to the table?
Seriously I don't know how can I start bashing that idea... Have you ever looked at the cost of most of the skills DK has? On a class that is rewarded for playing heavy armor? Have you read about how the cost added to power lash is just an extra drain of resources on a class that does not need more resources nerfs? A class that must go offensive to have some killing potential, or be built to resources to survive, using a wet noodle as main weapon(I suppose you know about the old wet noodle), And you give that "piece of advice"?

If you want bad DKs in PvP, well, you are doing a great job. Just consider that ZoS has helped a lot.


P.S. Saddly, the game has been dumbed down for other classes except for DK. The sane decision for any DK is to stop playing, otherwise unfun is gonna become stressful, or even painful. Sure, you can try those other classes, but will that reward you?

I just wanted a knight with a sword set on fire...

It's fun to see someone who's seeing only nerfs. What does that even mean that class was never like before 1.6 ? Like what is the point of stating that class was never again a brainless god mode that any later OP build could come close ?

I think You've missed the point of my statement about Battle Roar. I never said it's OP passive I just stated that change to it is not that bad as everyone states it is. I never said or suggested it's "resouce recovery on demand" and I think most of essey about battle roar comes from Your imagination about what i think and slightly missing the point of my comment rarther then actually from my statements. What I stated is that comparing current form restoring same amount of each resource to previous one scaled from each resouce separately it's still not tragic since You can take some adventage of getting more of second resource wheter it'll be easier block/dodge/break free option for mag dk or using additional fragmented shield on stam dk to get higher uptime of major mending and stamina return from helping hands. Actually when it comes to health restore it's almost the same since the loss start when You have more then 26k health. I stated that in one of my previous posts , fact that something got nerfed doesnt instantly mean it's a trash from now on. I understand Your concerns here since that tweak slightly changed dk's playstyle but overall I do not think it can be called harsh nerf. To be fair when change was maded it was even easier for permablocking mag dks to perma block. Battle roar was never resource on demand so I dont know why You're upset about how it works since it never worked differently at its core idea of restoring resources for using ulti.

Let me ask You theoretical question that will be answer for Your question about stam dk not using chains : why stamplar is not using toppling charge ? The answer is simple because stam builds cannot afford mag gap closers. I think you could post "stam dk" instead of mag but lets leave it that way for now. When it comes to the delay every gap closer have it and every gap closer requires for Your character to have teleportation or charging animation so idk why suddenly for chains it would've be different. There is literally no difference in time between being pulled to target by chains other gap closers. Teleport strike is slightly different in how it works but what You're talking about which is using another ability right after using gap closer is doable with any gap closer especially when used from more then ~15 meters where charge time is close to abilities global cooldown. Chain also have its own adventages.

I was nevert talking about perma root. I was talking about beeing able to root into stoun into root scenario which drains enemy resources simply too much. Fact that root is dodgable would be nice if not the fact that dk have a stun that goes through dodge roll followed by another root so if You'll use someone with talons then this person will dodge out 1 second later You can use Fossilize on that person and during break free immobilize immunity from dodge roll goes off so another root is applied. Noone here was talking about root spam but about possibility to connect roots and undidgable/unblockable stun into very heavily stamina draining combo when properly used.

Read once again because it wasnt me who bringed idea of using tri sta food to the table. It was just my answer to post I quosted where original poster bringed out "piece of advice" of using tristat food to deal with immobilizes from dk. You know it would be nice to know the context of the post You're quoting since I feel like almost half of Your long essay is based on missing the point , not understanding context or assuming I think something and creating ideas around that assumptions.

I dont want bad DKs in PvP I also play DK in PvP same as almost every other build. I just want even chances for everyone and current state of roots/snares dk have will be overperforming after murkmire where mobility was heavily injured and DK got even slight buff to burning embers (2 meters more range) so You'll be able to heal and keep up 30% snare just by brainlesly spamming this 1 cheap ability.

My dude, I really want some of the stuff you smoke. Just calm down a bit. magDks are also getting nerfs this patch. Mobility nerfs aren't really a buff for us, we are the slowest class in the game, outside of wings, we have nothing going on for us when it comes to mobility.

And don't even let me begin with stamDk.

Juhasow wrote: »

Suryoyo wrote: »

You gain less main resource but You get more overall resources so You can make use out of it and either block/dodge more on mag dk or use more class abilities on stam dk which through helping hands passive will restore You stamina

All DKs agree on the fact that battle roar is not efficient. Get more ressources overall ? what's the point if magDK get more stamina if they can barely heal, block and dodge ? And it goes the same way for StamDK. Because that's what we got with more 'overall' ressoures. It only signals to our opponents that we're about to be dead, one/two more rotations needed before a KO. Because of that, unlike other classes, we do not time our ulti to finish off our opponents.

All things You propose to avoid beeing fossilize are either situational or simply silly.

You're being silly because PvP is situational, YOU have to adapt to your opponents. BG have multiple rounds, You can rez in Cyro and change your build, change skills etc. In other words: get ready, prepare yourself, your gear etc. There's things right now that are difficult to deal with such as bleeds but seriously CC and fossilize ?
Also, If I'm not mistaken chains give snare immunity so it gives opponents a window to counter it.

Sorry to say that but I think You lack of experience to undertake conversation about dk. If You really think that snare and speed reduction will help magicka builds against beeing perma rooted or snared by 70-80% You are really mistaken.

You're just crying because you don't want to adapt, instead you cry for nerfs.
The rest of your post is pointless, think by yourself and adapt that's all.

You do realize that argument You love to use which is "adapt" can be used also against You ? You dont like battle roar changes , well how about adapting to it lol ?/s

How does it even correlate ? I think You're just playing with word "situational" without understanding context where it was used. When I said Your proposed solutions are situational it was just polite trying to say "naive and coming from lack of experience".Also it's not nice to edit just part of the post out of context and making statement based on that smaller part of post which completly have nothing to do with full meaning of whole post. You've been silly for making previous statements about dk but You're arrogant for cherry picking part of my post out of context and commenting just this part.I know there are other issues like bleeds and I present my concers about vbleeds inside the thread about them but this thread is not about bleeds it's about dragonknight right ? It's almost funny that people can present so chilsdlish way af arguing that becuse there is bad thing A we should leave in peace bad thing B.
Yes You're mistakes chains give no snare immunity in fact it's totally opposite since like every gap closer chains apply for a short period of time snare that goes even through snare immunity and cannot be purged.

I am not crying about anything. I would really like to see atleast 1 moment in my posts where You think I am crying about anything rather then just constructively stating my point. It's not like I am not playing dragonknight myself. Because I play it and every other class I see potential for dk to slightly overperform with controlling enemies in next update especially in non CP enviroment.

The flaw in that is, the slowest classes will get affected even worse with mobility nerfs. They are not really the beneficiary of anything. Other specs and classes who had a blast having good mobility will still be better. Worse will be worse off until they are really made better. Low uptime on mobility sucks but it sucks even more for class that had near 0 mobility to begin with.

All the 'buffs' were negated heavily with direct and indirect nerfs. 25% AoE damage mitigation on MA builds has Templars and DKs affected the most. But DKs probably will suffer worse due to no inherent compensation in their toolkit. I would love something like that last Aedric Spear passive and sustain help to compensate for Power Lash cost change.

Juhasow wrote: »

Suryoyo wrote: »

You gain less main resource but You get more overall resources so You can make use out of it and either block/dodge more on mag dk or use more class abilities on stam dk which through helping hands passive will restore You stamina

All DKs agree on the fact that battle roar is not efficient. Get more ressources overall ? what's the point if magDK get more stamina if they can barely heal, block and dodge ? And it goes the same way for StamDK. Because that's what we got with more 'overall' ressoures. It only signals to our opponents that we're about to be dead, one/two more rotations needed before a KO. Because of that, unlike other classes, we do not time our ulti to finish off our opponents.

All things You propose to avoid beeing fossilize are either situational or simply silly.

You're being silly because PvP is situational, YOU have to adapt to your opponents. BG have multiple rounds, You can rez in Cyro and change your build, change skills etc. In other words: get ready, prepare yourself, your gear etc. There's things right now that are difficult to deal with such as bleeds but seriously CC and fossilize ?
Also, If I'm not mistaken chains give snare immunity so it gives opponents a window to counter it.

Sorry to say that but I think You lack of experience to undertake conversation about dk. If You really think that snare and speed reduction will help magicka builds against beeing perma rooted or snared by 70-80% You are really mistaken.

You're just crying because you don't want to adapt, instead you cry for nerfs.
The rest of your post is pointless, think by yourself and adapt that's all.

You do realize that argument You love to use which is "adapt" can be used also against You ? You dont like battle roar changes , well how about adapting to it lol ?/s

How does it even correlate ? I think You're just playing with word "situational" without understanding context where it was used. When I said Your proposed solutions are situational it was just polite trying to say "naive and coming from lack of experience".Also it's not nice to edit just part of the post out of context and making statement based on that smaller part of post which completly have nothing to do with full meaning of whole post. You've been silly for making previous statements about dk but You're arrogant for cherry picking part of my post out of context and commenting just this part.I know there are other issues like bleeds and I present my concers about vbleeds inside the thread about them but this thread is not about bleeds it's about dragonknight right ? It's almost funny that people can present so chilsdlish way af arguing that becuse there is bad thing A we should leave in peace bad thing B.
Yes You're mistakes chains give no snare immunity in fact it's totally opposite since like every gap closer chains apply for a short period of time snare that goes even through snare immunity and cannot be purged.

I am not crying about anything. I would really like to see atleast 1 moment in my posts where You think I am crying about anything rather then just constructively stating my point. It's not like I am not playing dragonknight myself. Because I play it and every other class I see potential for dk to slightly overperform with controlling enemies in next update especially in non CP enviroment.

For battle roar, we're all already adapting since Morrowind, we're just raising an issue: Other classes can time their ulti to finish off their opponents while DK can't: It signals to our opponents that we're about to be dead and this use of ulti is at the opposite of how an 'ultimate' should be used (especially leap/standard being less effective with minor/major evasion, snare reduction and sprint cost reduction from light armour passives giving them more window to counter it before even it hit them). And this is due to poor sustain ( which itself is caused by not strong enough dots ? Spammables too costly or not hitting enough ? Standard having a high cost ?). Anyway you're biased by your unjustified fear of DK supposedly overpeforming next patch.


My bad, chains give CC immunity so I still stand by my point, it allows for counter plays.
DK will not overperform with CC, there's always counter plays.

You're worrying for nothing.

Childsih way of arguig, naive, lack of experience ? Yeah sure, it does not deserve a comment.