So, is it time yet to call for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum's leadership? From all appearances we need a new balancing team, or at least a new lead. Because this is just ridonkulously bad.

a few points:
why are chains undodgeable? What is the counter to it? how can you avoid getting chain into a zerg? block and move really slow and it will not even cost them mag then

fossilize is way too strong in general and especial in no cp: undodgeable stun+root+damage (no the range does not matter if you can quite easy get into melee range)- rune cage got nerfed into the ground but this skill does way more

Why does flame of oblivion not also do poison damage depending what stat is higher and the other morph healing on depending on what is higher?

Molten weapons still only affects 6 ppl which is really dumb from a pve trial point of few. (It has 12 player and this would only give 6 random ppl the buff )

Winges allow no counter play for range classes: it would be nice if they would refect more projectiles but do not anything fired at them at less then 15 m


I also do not think stam dks need more sustain in pvp with they way they work they can get a lot of sustain with ulti gen. Mag dks on the other hand seem to got a big nerf with the no longer free flame lash.

Edit:
Ign shield should at this point no longer scale with hp so healer and dd also can use it to help grp mates. A 5k shield sound fair and 10k with the other morph

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

a few points:
why are chains undodgeable? What is the counter to it? how can you avoid getting chain into a zerg? block and move really slow and it will not even cost them mag then

fossilize is way too strong in general and especial in no cp: undodgeable stun+root+damage (no the range does not matter if you can quite easy get into melee range)- rune cage got nerfed into the ground but this skill does way more

Why does flame of oblivion not also do poison damage depending what stat is higher and the other morph healing on depending on what is higher?

Molten weapons still only affects 6 ppl which is really dumb from a pve trial point of few. (It has 12 player and this would only give 6 random ppl the buff )

Winges allow no counter play for range classes: it would be nice if they would refect more projectiles but do not anything fired at them at less then 15 m



I also do not think stam dks need more sustain in pvp with they way they work they can get a lot of sustain with ulti gen. Mag dks on the other hand seem to got a big nerf with the no longer free flame lash.

Do you also realize stamDks lose stam regen while blocking and stamdens have better sustain than us?

And less than 15m for wings? That is just insane.

Have you played a stam warden? Or are you just making things up because someone said something?


Let's just make a simply calculation to compare:

Stam warden sustain:
5376 stam over 27 sec = 200stam/sec

vs

stam dk

4 ulti/sec*46 = 184 stam+mag / sec (you can get a lot more ulti than just 4 per sec asylum 2h, bloodspawn, minor heroism, class passive, sets,... )

and ing shield every 10 sec +1k stam

-> 284 stam/sec

see the sustain is not so bad as many make it out to be in pvp and you can even get a lot higher if you run a meditate build since you can quite easy transfer mag to stam


15 m was just some arbitrary number but i would say it is fair since you would still reflect everything outside of this range(maybe even remove the number of reflects completely) and can focus on targets that are on you attack range.

Zer0oo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

a few points:
why are chains undodgeable? What is the counter to it? how can you avoid getting chain into a zerg? block and move really slow and it will not even cost them mag then

fossilize is way too strong in general and especial in no cp: undodgeable stun+root+damage (no the range does not matter if you can quite easy get into melee range)- rune cage got nerfed into the ground but this skill does way more

Why does flame of oblivion not also do poison damage depending what stat is higher and the other morph healing on depending on what is higher?

Molten weapons still only affects 6 ppl which is really dumb from a pve trial point of few. (It has 12 player and this would only give 6 random ppl the buff )

Winges allow no counter play for range classes: it would be nice if they would refect more projectiles but do not anything fired at them at less then 15 m



I also do not think stam dks need more sustain in pvp with they way they work they can get a lot of sustain with ulti gen. Mag dks on the other hand seem to got a big nerf with the no longer free flame lash.

Do you also realize stamDks lose stam regen while blocking and stamdens have better sustain than us?

And less than 15m for wings? That is just insane.

Have you played a stam warden? Or are you just making things up because someone said something?


Let's just make a simply calculation to compare:

Stam warden sustain:
5376 stam over 27 sec = 200stam/sec

vs

stam dk

4 ulti/sec*46 = 184 stam+mag / sec (you can get a lot more ulti than just 4 per sec asylum 2h, bloodspawn, minor heroism, class passive, sets,... )

and ing shield every 10 sec +1k stam

-> 284 stam/sec

see the sustain is not so bad as many make it out to be in pvp and you can even get a lot higher if you run a meditate build since you can quite easy transfer mag to stam


15 m was just some arbitrary number but i would say it is fair since you would still reflect everything outside of this range(maybe even remove the number of reflects completely) and can focus on targets that are on you attack range.

4 ulti per sec lmao, do you make your calculations based on overland mobs?

Zer0oo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

a few points:
why are chains undodgeable? What is the counter to it? how can you avoid getting chain into a zerg? block and move really slow and it will not even cost them mag then

fossilize is way too strong in general and especial in no cp: undodgeable stun+root+damage (no the range does not matter if you can quite easy get into melee range)- rune cage got nerfed into the ground but this skill does way more

Why does flame of oblivion not also do poison damage depending what stat is higher and the other morph healing on depending on what is higher?

Molten weapons still only affects 6 ppl which is really dumb from a pve trial point of few. (It has 12 player and this would only give 6 random ppl the buff )

Winges allow no counter play for range classes: it would be nice if they would refect more projectiles but do not anything fired at them at less then 15 m



I also do not think stam dks need more sustain in pvp with they way they work they can get a lot of sustain with ulti gen. Mag dks on the other hand seem to got a big nerf with the no longer free flame lash.

Do you also realize stamDks lose stam regen while blocking and stamdens have better sustain than us?

And less than 15m for wings? That is just insane.

Have you played a stam warden? Or are you just making things up because someone said something?


Let's just make a simply calculation to compare:

Stam warden sustain:
5376 stam over 27 sec = 200stam/sec

vs

stam dk

4 ulti/sec*46 = 184 stam+mag / sec (you can get a lot more ulti than just 4 per sec asylum 2h, bloodspawn, minor heroism, class passive, sets,... )

and ing shield every 10 sec +1k stam

-> 284 stam/sec

see the sustain is not so bad as many make it out to be in pvp and you can even get a lot higher if you run a meditate build since you can quite easy transfer mag to stam


15 m was just some arbitrary number but i would say it is fair since you would still reflect everything outside of this range(maybe even remove the number of reflects completely) and can focus on targets that are on you attack range.

4 ulti per sec lmao, do you make your calculations based on overland mobs?

3 ulti is base

~140 stam and mag per sec it is really alot if you thing you also getting your secondary resource back.

-> 240 stam / sec with ing shield


minor h ~0.5 ulti per sec
class passive ~0.5 ulti per sec
bloodspawn ~1ulti per sec (assuming it procs every 14 sec which is not so unrealistic open world)
AS 2h lets say you get the enemy once per min to execute and get 20 ulti from that (2x10 ulti per execute) ~0.3 ulti

I’m not going to read everything but the ultigen on dk can’t be calculated because you don’t use ultimate on cool down.

Zer0oo wrote: »

a few points:
why are chains undodgeable? What is the counter to it? how can you avoid getting chain into a zerg? block and move really slow and it will not even cost them mag then

fossilize is way too strong in general and especial in no cp: undodgeable stun+root+damage (no the range does not matter if you can quite easy get into melee range)- rune cage got nerfed into the ground but this skill does way more

Why does flame of oblivion not also do poison damage depending what stat is higher and the other morph healing on depending on what is higher?

Molten weapons still only affects 6 ppl which is really dumb from a pve trial point of few. (It has 12 player and this would only give 6 random ppl the buff )

Winges allow no counter play for range classes: it would be nice if they would refect more projectiles but do not anything fired at them at less then 15 m


I also do not think stam dks need more sustain in pvp with they way they work they can get a lot of sustain with ulti gen. Mag dks on the other hand seem to got a big nerf with the no longer free flame lash.

Edit:
Ign shield should at this point no longer scale with hp so healer and dd also can use it to help grp mates. A 5k shield sound fair and 10k with the other morph

Like you said just block chains or be on a hill that works because chains is buggy.

They shortened to range to fossilize to short range and gave it a undodgable long range equivalent to the Sorc. It's a 28m root that was undodgable. That needed a nerf. Counterplay to fossilize is well don't go in range of a magdk if you don't have enough Stam. Like really mdk are turtles stumbling towards you.

Foo doesn't make sense because ZoS took the original skill and gave it to Stam Sorc. Now it's just a magelight clone that does damage.

Molten weapons is stupid. The skill is only useful in pug dungeons because no one uses good pots in there. Elsewhere the skill is worthless even if it buffed 50 ppl

It's only bad on non fp magblades. There are way too many skills that isn't effected by this skill.

Dks in general are nothing more than annoying in PvP. This is mostly true for the SDK. Their sustain is garbage. I've been a SDK main sense console drop. Sustain looks nice on paper but we have way too many weird rules every passive we got. Blades sorcs Templars wardens all have recovery passives cost reduction passive and active sustain skills. We have to wait 30 secs to even have the ability to receive sustain. On paper dks look like sexy sustain freaks but it's absolutely not the case in application

Igneous shield does not need a change. You get major mending for healers and honestly there are better shields even after the nerf than igneous.

Zer0oo wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

a few points:
why are chains undodgeable? What is the counter to it? how can you avoid getting chain into a zerg? block and move really slow and it will not even cost them mag then

fossilize is way too strong in general and especial in no cp: undodgeable stun+root+damage (no the range does not matter if you can quite easy get into melee range)- rune cage got nerfed into the ground but this skill does way more

Why does flame of oblivion not also do poison damage depending what stat is higher and the other morph healing on depending on what is higher?

Molten weapons still only affects 6 ppl which is really dumb from a pve trial point of few. (It has 12 player and this would only give 6 random ppl the buff )

Winges allow no counter play for range classes: it would be nice if they would refect more projectiles but do not anything fired at them at less then 15 m


I also do not think stam dks need more sustain in pvp with they way they work they can get a lot of sustain with ulti gen. Mag dks on the other hand seem to got a big nerf with the no longer free flame lash.

Edit:
Ign shield should at this point no longer scale with hp so healer and dd also can use it to help grp mates. A 5k shield sound fair and 10k with the other morph

Like you said just block chains or be on a hill that works because chains is buggy.

They shortened to range to fossilize to short range and gave it a undodgable long range equivalent to the Sorc. It's a 28m root that was undodgable. That needed a nerf. Counterplay to fossilize is well don't go in range of a magdk if you don't have enough Stam. Like really mdk are turtles stumbling towards you.

Foo doesn't make sense because ZoS took the original skill and gave it to Stam Sorc. Now it's just a magelight clone that does damage.

Molten weapons is stupid. The skill is only useful in pug dungeons because no one uses good pots in there. Elsewhere the skill is worthless even if it buffed 50 ppl

It's only bad on non fp magblades. There are way too many skills that isn't effected by this skill.

Dks in general are nothing more than annoying in PvP. This is mostly true for the SDK. Their sustain is garbage. I've been a SDK main sense console drop. Sustain looks nice on paper but we have way too many weird rules every passive we got. Blades sorcs Templars wardens all have recovery passives cost reduction passive and active sustain skills. We have to wait 30 secs to even have the ability to receive sustain. On paper dks look like sexy sustain freaks but it's absolutely not the case in application

Igneous shield does not need a change. You get major mending for healers and honestly there are better shields even after the nerf than igneous.

You know that the skill does not cost anything if it gets blocked and it is more about the stupid concept that you can not win against a zerg with a chain spammer. Block means you are slow so the zerg can catch up.

Yeah as if range means anything in this game. And you know how easy it is to gap close?

Molten is not stupid since it would free up a skill or a pot option.

FOO is not bad, it allows some burst in pvp.

Wings are really strong against a lot of build and dk really like to under sell how op this skill is. Reflect light attacks of the only mag weapon destro staff is already a ~ 20% damage reduction and if someone really attacks you it gives even damage for free.

Jesus dk sustain in pvp is not as bad as many make it out at least on a stam dk.

the suggestion was more for end game pve since all tank use it on hp builds since it gives players a high shield but the shield is really same if a dd or healer or a not hp tank us it.

Oh yeah man, sDK sustain so damn good that we just got our 4th sustain passive to improve our ''perfect'' sustain.


All I get from your posts is that you got chained in by a DK and got zerged and now you're throwing all your salt in here.


PS: I have a sneaking suspicion that you are one of those stamblade mains.

Zer0oo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

a few points:
why are chains undodgeable? What is the counter to it? how can you avoid getting chain into a zerg? block and move really slow and it will not even cost them mag then

fossilize is way too strong in general and especial in no cp: undodgeable stun+root+damage (no the range does not matter if you can quite easy get into melee range)- rune cage got nerfed into the ground but this skill does way more

Why does flame of oblivion not also do poison damage depending what stat is higher and the other morph healing on depending on what is higher?

Molten weapons still only affects 6 ppl which is really dumb from a pve trial point of few. (It has 12 player and this would only give 6 random ppl the buff )

Winges allow no counter play for range classes: it would be nice if they would refect more projectiles but do not anything fired at them at less then 15 m


I also do not think stam dks need more sustain in pvp with they way they work they can get a lot of sustain with ulti gen. Mag dks on the other hand seem to got a big nerf with the no longer free flame lash.

Edit:
Ign shield should at this point no longer scale with hp so healer and dd also can use it to help grp mates. A 5k shield sound fair and 10k with the other morph

Like you said just block chains or be on a hill that works because chains is buggy.

They shortened to range to fossilize to short range and gave it a undodgable long range equivalent to the Sorc. It's a 28m root that was undodgable. That needed a nerf. Counterplay to fossilize is well don't go in range of a magdk if you don't have enough Stam. Like really mdk are turtles stumbling towards you.

Foo doesn't make sense because ZoS took the original skill and gave it to Stam Sorc. Now it's just a magelight clone that does damage.

Molten weapons is stupid. The skill is only useful in pug dungeons because no one uses good pots in there. Elsewhere the skill is worthless even if it buffed 50 ppl

It's only bad on non fp magblades. There are way too many skills that isn't effected by this skill.

Dks in general are nothing more than annoying in PvP. This is mostly true for the SDK. Their sustain is garbage. I've been a SDK main sense console drop. Sustain looks nice on paper but we have way too many weird rules every passive we got. Blades sorcs Templars wardens all have recovery passives cost reduction passive and active sustain skills. We have to wait 30 secs to even have the ability to receive sustain. On paper dks look like sexy sustain freaks but it's absolutely not the case in application

Igneous shield does not need a change. You get major mending for healers and honestly there are better shields even after the nerf than igneous.

You know that the skill does not cost anything if it gets blocked and it is more about the stupid concept that you can not win against a zerg with a chain spammer. Block means you are slow so the zerg can catch up.

Yeah as if range means anything in this game. And you know how easy it is to gap close?

Molten is not stupid since it would free up a skill or a pot option.

FOO is not bad, it allows some burst in pvp.

Wings are really strong against a lot of build and dk really like to under sell how op this skill is. Reflect light attacks of the only mag weapon destro staff is already a ~ 20% damage reduction and if someone really attacks you it gives even damage for free.

Jesus dk sustain in pvp is not as bad as many make it out at least on a stam dk.

the suggestion was more for end game pve since all tank use it on hp builds since it gives players a high shield but the shield is really same if a dd or healer or a not hp tank us it.

Oh yeah man, sDK sustain so damn good that we just got our 4th sustain passive to improve our ''perfect'' sustain.


All I get from your posts is that you got chained in by a DK and got zerged and now you're throwing all your salt in here.


PS: I have a sneaking suspicion that you are one of those stamblade mains.

Ok i think we reached the point were it is useless to discuss it any further. It was my opinion on the class and everyone is entitled to have his own and i was just wondering why every stam dk pretends to have soooo bad sustain while i find it has good sustain not godlike like stam nb but better than stam warden. I do not really have a main class. I change the classes that i play quite often and at the moment i really love playing stam dk and stam templer solo.I go Godblade (aka stam blade) if it gets too zergy and stam warden in grp.

Fun fact: I almost never get chained on a stam blade but quite often on my other classes.

Chains are balanced because they apply cc immunity without actually stunning the target. Sure they can be annoying but once you get pulled you have a 7 seconds window during which you can't get stunned or chained again. Additionally to blocking, you can use immovable potions to counter getting chained. If ZOS would nerf the skill, then DKs would lose their best counter to ball groups.

Can ZoS revert the range nerf of flame/power lash and the unwelcomed additional cost ? And all the changes made to flame lash basically, no one wanted this especially for a melee ability that is easily dodgeable.

StShoot wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fingers crossed for the reversion of that stupid Power Lash cost increase. But I fear I might be setting myself up for the disappointment.

Fingers crossed that we get a sustain overhaul........ just joking not gonna happen :'( .

I maked my stamblade and stamden ready for pvp.

All those proplayers said dks need to adapt, i adapted into a stamblade.

This is ZOS's vision for the game. Everyone playing a deadly game of hide and seek as NBs. Guess it is time to feed my Stamblade mounts.

There it is, 0 changes for DKs once again. Power Lash change not reverted. Wrobel really thinks DKs are sustain gods or something.

Dragonknight
Earthen Heart
Petrify
Shattering Rocks (morph): Updated the tooltip of this morph to indicate it deals damage.

I mean i didnt expect much ....... and i still feel disapointed.

Congrats Zos you are the only company that manages to disapoint players with 0 expectations

So, since sorcs shields got an adjustment (40% to 50% shield cap), why no adjustments for obsidian shield and its morph ?

Why no dev comments about this shield cap adjustment ? Why is DK ignored ?
We saw the same thing for flame lash vs crystal fragments: one got a cost to make it in line with the other but next patch the other got a damage buff ?

It's funny how 2 NB users posting about some sets gets heard (Impreg nerf and some razor shot set DoT now ignoring resistance like bleed) and mass of DK concerns just goes straight into the trash bin. Really, if this isn't bias showing, I don't know what it is @ZOS_GinaBruno . How is it that certain part of the community has the dev attention at near 100% of the times and gets what they exactly want while other part of the community just ears nerf after nerf? Do people at ZOS think all DK users are just PvErs that are sustain gods or so? PvE wise, anyone with a fraction of brain can sustain really really well when tanking. DPS/healing wise, DK sustain is just flat out bad. I really don't get it. I thought balancing was supposed to be about... balance. Not 'let's play favorites and selectively hear'. I am sure our class reps did bring a lot of concerns about the current state of the game and yet you have chosen to listen to non-class reps that wants their already strong class indirectly buffed. What even is the point of class reps at this stage? Why waste our drive space with PTS? Just end these two programs really.

Xvorg wrote: »

Let's go back to Akavir, maybe chasing snakes, mokeys and tigers is better that playing this crap.

DK nerfs and NB buffs are actually lore friendly.

Everyone knows that by the time of Skyrim, Akaviri warriors are nowhere to be found and everyone is a sneak archer.