Tested a bit and with the mobility nerf to bird of prey i still managed to maintain some good speed in light armor due to sprint cost reduction and the stamina regen given by bird of prey. Now it is more of a reposition skill and we can sprint more, but overall it is a nerf but if Movement speed potions get some kind of nerf too then it should be ok, we will haveto see when they get one.

Well, i think we can still adapt. Seeing that they Ignore our sugestions i will propose a small buff then, a really small thing that maybe they at least will give us till Murkmire goes live.

Buff Piercing Cold to 8% so at least we get a small buff to our DMG. This is nothing outrageous considering the "rebalancing" we recieved. But If we are to continue to play this class at least give us something too this patch that adresses frost dmg, we already got Winter's Revenge that maybe only a few MAgdens will use (not sure why). I for one would like the stun to be move on Frozen Retreat take the teleport function out of it and add the stun, it would be a cool skill and quite balanced, change nothing else and it will be great.

Now, i can not speak for the rest but i hope others support this.

Lets take Baby Steps if big changes are out of the question. Give us a 8% Piercing cold (a 2% Buff from live)

Moving the stun would be great but if not give us at least the Piercing cold buff.

Drygon wrote: »

IDK who to tag in my last comment to see the sugestion, maybe someone could help.

@ZOS_GinaBruno started the thread, so maybe?

The bird of prey nerf is the worst thing that has ever happened to Magden... Magden needed buffs in PvP and PvE not another crippling nerf that both weakens it further and makes it unfun to play... this nerf to expedition uptime needs to be reverted entirely... Zos admitted that the Magden community felt neglected and then pulled this... What are they doing!? They are nerfing Magden harshly without any regard for class balance in order to conform it to another arbitrary rule set like they did with Deep Fissure... This change will have disastrous effects on Magdens and have the ultimate effect of reducing class diversity, balance, enjoyment in PvP... They are crippling PvP Magdens for the 5th patch in a row without regard for community feedback or balance... Absolutely unacceptable!

casparian wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

The bird of prey nerf is the worst thing that has ever happened to Magden... Magden needed buffs in PvP and PvE not another crippling nerf that both weakens it further and makes it unfun to play... this nerf to expedition uptime needs to be reverted entirely... Zos admitted that the Magden community felt neglected and then pulled this... What are they doing!? They are nerfing Magden harshly without any regard for class balance in order to conform it to another arbitrary rule set like they did with Deep Fissure... This change will have disastrous effects on Magdens and have the ultimate effect of reducing class diversity, balance, enjoyment in PvP... They are crippling PvP Magdens for the 5th patch in a row without regard for community feedback or balance... Absolutely unacceptable!

But you can't seriously believe that the internal cohesion, ability-playstyle synergy, and unique strengths of a class are more important than making all the Major Expedition skill in the game have "4" in their tooltip! That's MADNESS

The Sarcasm is strong in that one

Wing wrote: »

add snare removal and 2 sec immune like DK wings to Warden wings if your nerfing the speed so bad.

This would be nice... and yet with the changes to the beserk buff not applying to the back bar it would still be a net nerf unless they rebuffed the expedition bonus back to 10s in addition to that 2s snare root immunity

or maybe change it to a 10 ish second minor exp like hurricane? there are more sources of major then minor, and change berserk back to a 10 second buff

so on cast you get
-snare removal and slight immunity (2 sec)
-minor expedition (10s)
-major berserk (EDIT MINOR NOT MAJOR) (10s)

because as it stands. . .Mwarden has gotten nothing but nerfs. . .and I cannot fathom how it happened.

sorry yeah minor

ascan7 wrote: »

So since pet won't take damage anymore in raids, can we just rework the magbear morph? it was already useless before since it didn't remove the cast time, now it's even more useless

Wrobel stated "It can still die in PvP, Open World, and Maelstrom, so its not useless" ........

When warden came out, there was one thing that attracted me, and it was the ability to play a class nature focused, with animals and insects. I made a magwarden, and have had the best fun playing her, solo pve - awesome I ignored the healing line, my main is a healer. Used a little of the frost line, but mostly used the animal skills.

Nerf after nerf, ensued which meant I played her less and less, but when I did I still had smiles, and my dear bear

This nerf............ I've posted on different threads, my huge upset, read replies like "adapt, " "play stamden instead," "just use different ultimates." The thing is, it means use ultimates I use on other toons (cross class ultimates). This one is a unique ultimate, and it misses the point of the original intention, in my mind anyway, of a unique class with very different skills.

Given I do not think ZOS is going to stop hating on, in particular, magwardens, I decided to play her as much as I can, in the time she has left, and then she will become a storage toon. Playing her now, is bittersweet, and so is my enjoyment of the game in general.

Please, please don't nerf the bear, I say again, hoping, still hoping.......

If Zo$'s goal was to get me to feel completely scammed and ignored by their constant mishandling of Magden "changes", they've succeeded.
Been maining "Fox McWarden" on Xbox NA since MW launch desperately holding onto the hope that the developer's would one day make us Magdens relevant in the community.
This though... this "patch" of bad ideas has crossed the line for me.
I suppose the one good thing to come of this is I am now no longer questioning if I will be buying and playing RDR at the end of the month.
I wonder how many more players they'll get to leave before they decide to actually do something positive for this dismal class.
And to think we paid real $$ for this BS almost 18 months ago...

some general ideas to make warden more unique and fun to play:

shalks and his morphs: apply a new debuff for 5 sec major crit vulnerability Also both morphs will now stun one target but it will give the target an better visual when they hit. The stun can be blocked and dodged

bear ulti: You can now use 2 different ultis depending on how much ulti you have stacked up. If you have under 150ulti the bear will do his normal attack but if you have more the bear will launch a powerful aoe attack by stomping on the ground.(It will do similar damage as dragon leap). The bear will always do damage of the type of your highest stat. physical or magical depends what is higher. One morph keeps re-summoning it self if it dies but if it stays alive it will charge a special attack every min. The other morph will deal higher execute damage.

Ice fortress and its morphs: Will now apply to 12 ppl this will get rid of the problem that it is almost random to put the buff up on 12ppl in a raid. You can not really control it so the best solution is to increase this limit. It opens also a lot of options if one person could provide such a nice buff for the whole grp.


vines and its morphs: will now heal based on your higher stats but continue to cost magica

lotus and morphs: increase the duration to 35 sec

netch and its morphs: they will get a synergy so a player can activate it to get a netch for them self for 20 sec that restores like the netch resources to them

Shimmering shield and morphs: You can not activate this ability again for 6 sec if you have not absorbed at least one projectile.

Permafrost and morphs: The damage type will now change depending on the highest stat (physical or frost). The one morph will no longer give 8% mag but will do more damage. The 8% mag should be a passive.


Frozen retreat This skill will no longer port enemies to you. Instead you can setup 2 portal and you can your teammates can use them to port from one portal to another. Each portal can only be used once per player and needs to be put up again if you want to use it again. (12 player can use a portal but they can not use the same portal again without replacing one of the gates)

Zer0oo wrote: »

some general ideas to make warden more unique and fun to play:

shalks and his morphs: apply a new debuff for 5 sec major crit vulnerability

this will give wardens something new and unique. It is also intended to be easier to keep it up on a dd than on a healer or tank since they are already strong on these spots. The debuff also should not affect pvp too much since you can reduce crit damage by a lot and do not run very high crit chance. It should also now open up

Also both morphs will now stun one target but it will give the target an better visual when they hit. The stun can be blocked and dodged

The class should have it's own cc and putting the cc on any other skill will just create more problems than it solved

Good gawd no, Shalks don't need Buffed. Leave them alone (or give Fissure its stun back)

bear ulti: You can now use 2 different ultis depending on how much ulti you have stacked up. If you have under 150ulti the bear will do his normal attack but if you have more the bear will launch a powerful aoe attack by stomping on the ground.(It will do similar damage as dragon leap).

It will make the ulti more interesting and will help it in add and heavy aoe fights.

The bear will always do damage of the type of your highest stat. physical or magical depends what is higher. One morph keeps re-summoning it self if it dies but if it stays alive it will charge a special attack every min. The other morph will deal higher execute damage.

Player should pick one morph over the other because they prefer the effect not that it scales better

Could be interesting, defenitly on par with the Single Bar ideas. "charge its special attack every min" That needs looked at, as is 75 Ulti is ready once per Netch cast (something under 27sec) So 150 once a minute should be easy to reach without any "morph effect"

lotus and morphs: increase the duration to 35 sec

It will be cheaper in the long run and some dds will maybe slot it to heal with grp healing

27 or 24 seconds. Warden Pain Point is buff management. Giving them some new random time is not desired. Make it match another skill, like Netch or Fortress

netch and its morphs: they will get a synergy so a player can activate it to get a netch for them self for 20 sec that restores like the netch resources to them

just though it would be nice that they also provide a synergy on a dd setup and netches are cool

Actually really like this idea

Shimmering shield and morphs: You can not activate this ability again for 6 sec if you have not absorbed at least one projectile.

It will allow range classes a smart counter play against this skill

No, just run the StamDen out of Magicka or close and melee/AoE the MagDen. It already has built in counter play

Permafrost and morphs: The damage type will now change depending on the highest stat (physical or frost). The one morph will no longer give 8% mag but will do more damage. The 8% mag should be a passive.

No, StamDen doesnt need buffed. My StamDen runs PermaFrost, and Tool Tips for 4.3k/sec. (so 2k with BattleSpirit) So buffing that with CP from Mighty would just push StamDen back into the OP category.

Frozen retreat This skill will no longer port enemies to you. Instead you can setup 2 portal and you can your teammates can use them to port from one portal to another. Each portal can only be used once per player and needs to be put up again if you want to use it again. (12 player can use a portal but they can not use the same portal again without replacing one of the gates)

Would allow some interesting option in pvp and pve. Tanks could make the portal so melee chars can simply port to the new spot. In pvp it would really be awesome.

Good gawd no, This would open up some serious glitching issues, as well as creating a double cast situation.
Removed the Enemy pull, leave the synergy just the way it is. When an Enemy triggers the trap, they take [x] (One place the Stun could go, or some burst damage, or a ranged single target Root, or some DoT status effect applied)

Can the warden tree ulti also now be a real instant cast? The ulti has most of the time an extrem delay till you can really cast it (it does not go off)

casparian wrote: »

The net effect of the changes in Murkmire is not only that stamwarden got stronger and magwarden got weaker -- it's that stamwarden can now do literally everything that magwarden can in PVP, but better. I made a separate post about this in order to be able to go into more detail: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439286/in-murkmire-magwarden-brings-nothing-to-the-table-in-pvp-that-stamwarden-doesnt

There are no longer two kinds of wardens, mag and stam -- there's stamwarden, and inefficient stamwarden with mag morphs. There's also warden spamming ice roots, but that playstyle is much more efficient on a health-based build than an actual magwarden.

You really undersell how strong a mag warden can be. It is true that a stam anything is 10000x better open world than anything mag but that has more to do with good burst ultis(dawnbreaker), sustain, cc(reverb) and most importantly mobility(not being perma-snared). A mag warden would be in line with the other mag chars if it had a good cc on a skill that is already in their normal toolkit like: deep fissure

Mag warden are extrem strong in grps. You can make up the missing mobility with chaining to grp mates and let grp mates cc the enemies. They provide nice off healing and aoe major defile. Also the ice root mag warden is extrem strong in bgs.Bgs are No cp and close areas to fight and they even buffed the playstyle by nerfing forward momentum. Ice root spam kills every mag char in no cp so enjoy till they see their mistake.

casparian wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

You really undersell how strong a mag warden can be. It is true that a stam anything is 10000x better open world

You're making my point for me bud

I don't claim that magwarden doesn't have its strengths. My point is that every one of magwarden's strengths is also a stamwarden strength, except stamwarden does it even better than magwarden. Group utility? Stamwarden can do everything magwarden can do. AOE burst? Sub Assault is just as good as Fissure, except stamwardens also get to use DBOS and an execute. Off healing? Stamwarden is at least as good as magwarden if not better. AOE Major Defile? Stamwarden can run it.

In my lengthier post I mention ice root warden, which obviously stamwarden can't do. The ironic thing is that magwarden is even the weaker version an ice root build, as a healthwarden stacking proc sets is the most effective version of that build.

Another way to put it: you're pointing out that there are tons of reasons to be a warden. I agree! But there is no reason other than roleplay and stubbornness to prefer magwarden over stamwarden or healthwarden.

Stubbornness it is