PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Wardens

MinarasLaure

Is this the last patch before it goes live?
I can't believe they're happy with how Arctic blast works now lol

LeHarrt91

MinarasLaure wrote: »

Is this the last patch before it goes live?
I can't believe they're happy with how Arctic blast works now lol

Yes it goes live next week on PC but sometimes they do add last minute changes to the live version.

Tonturri

Can casting the bear ult provide a synergy that gives major zerk on use for a duration? Call it inspiring ferocity or something.

Then bump the cost to 80 if need be (though zos has already nerfed the poor fluffy fella by 30%...).

Give the stam version a different synergy - I'm not so familiar with stamdens tho, maybe someone else can comment on what they need.

LeHarrt91

Tonturri wrote: »

Can casting the bear ult provide a synergy that gives major zerk on use for a duration? Call it inspiring ferocity or something.

Then bump the cost to 80 if need be (though zos has already nerfed the poor fluffy fella by 30%...).

Give the stam version a different synergy - I'm not so familiar with stamdens tho, maybe someone else can comment on what they need.

They Nerfed the bear so that those who do not use the bear can get similar dps. I dont think they will add it to the bear ulti for that reason. But a synergy somewhere else in the animal companion tree would be great.

mb10

a year and a half later and magicka wardens 4 damage dealing abilties... LOL

Out of 15 skills, only FOUR are for DDs.. comical at this stage tbh

Arctic blast should have been an ice damage ability or kept the same, winters embrace needs attention imo.

LeHarrt91

mb10 wrote: »

a year and a half later and magicka wardens 4 damage dealing abilties... LOL

Out of 15 skills, only FOUR are for DDs.. comical at this stage tbh

Arctic blast should have been an ice damage ability or kept the same, winters embrace needs attention imo.

Agreed there are plenty of morphs that can have damage added onto them.

Tonturri

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Can casting the bear ult provide a synergy that gives major zerk on use for a duration? Call it inspiring ferocity or something.

Then bump the cost to 80 if need be (though zos has already nerfed the poor fluffy fella by 30%...).

Give the stam version a different synergy - I'm not so familiar with stamdens tho, maybe someone else can comment on what they need.

They Nerfed the bear so that those who do not use the bear can get similar dps. I dont think they will add it to the bear ulti for that reason. But a synergy somewhere else in the animal companion tree would be great.

Tbh I don't see why the bear ult, as a dps ult that requires much more sacrifice than the other ults (and zos has done a good job of adjusting pet issues) shouldn't be the superior dps option.

There's a difference between a skill over performing and needing a nerf vs a skill that does one thing better than another because they were designed to do different things.

You don't see people complaining that the templar healing ult is bad compared to their dps ult because the healing one doesn't do enough damage.

LeHarrt91

Tonturri wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Can casting the bear ult provide a synergy that gives major zerk on use for a duration? Call it inspiring ferocity or something.

Then bump the cost to 80 if need be (though zos has already nerfed the poor fluffy fella by 30%...).

Give the stam version a different synergy - I'm not so familiar with stamdens tho, maybe someone else can comment on what they need.

They Nerfed the bear so that those who do not use the bear can get similar dps. I dont think they will add it to the bear ulti for that reason. But a synergy somewhere else in the animal companion tree would be great.

Tbh I don't see why the bear ult, as a dps ult that requires much more sacrifice than the other ults (and zos has done a good job of adjusting pet issues) shouldn't be the superior dps option.

There's a difference between a skill over performing and needing a nerf vs a skill that does one thing better than another because they were designed to do different things.

You don't see people complaining that the templar healing ult is bad compared to their dps ult because the healing one doesn't do enough damage.

I agree that it should be more dps, as you are sacrifices both Ulti slots but the difference was very big between bear and non bear setups. But also its the only class execute and like myself, people are not fond of pets taht follow you around lol

_Ahala_

From a PvP perspective

Dragonknight (15 attacks / 12 viable)
Sorceror (14 attacks / 8 viable)
Templar (13 attacks / 9 viable)
Nightblade (12 attacks / 10 viable)
Warden (8 attacks / 4 viable)

I find it hard to believe that zos doesn't see the problem here

All other mage subclasses get at least 2 trees of damaging abilities and magden gets 1 tree of damaging abilities and no hope of gaining any sort of PvP build diversity in the future because the devs say things like "we don't see ice dps in the forseeable future"

If magden is to become a viable mage subclass winters embrace is going to need a rework

LeHarrt91

_Ahala_ wrote: »

From a PvP perspective

Dragonknight (15 attacks / 12 viable)
Sorceror (14 attacks / 8 viable)
Templar (13 attacks / 9 viable)
Nightblade (12 attacks / 10 viable)
Warden (8 attacks / 4 viable)

I find it hard to believe that zos doesn't see the problem here

All other mage subclasses get at least 2 trees of damaging abilities and magden gets 1 tree of damaging abilities and no hope of gaining any sort of PvP build diversity because the devs say things like "we don't see ice dps in the forseeable future"

If magden is to become a viable mage subclass winters embrace is going to need a rework

All classes have some form of damage in each class skill tree (except Wardens Green Balance). with that said i want to throw vines at people and kill them

LeHarrt91

Aaaand there is a skill that one of the mages uses in the Murkmire Prologue Quest where they throw roots at you... stun you... and deal damage.

SilverIce58

_Ahala_ wrote: »

because the devs say things like "we don't see ice dps in the forseeable future"

If magden is to become a viable mage subclass winters embrace is going to need a rework

I think its so dumb when the devs say things like that. Like, theres probably tens of thousands of people playing the game who want to use ice as a viable dps choice, and like 10 devs who say they dont want to make ice dps. Its honestly absurd.

Feanor

Tonturri wrote: »

Can casting the bear ult provide a synergy that gives major zerk on use for a duration? Call it inspiring ferocity or something.

Then bump the cost to 80 if need be (though zos has already nerfed the poor fluffy fella by 30%...).

Give the stam version a different synergy - I'm not so familiar with stamdens tho, maybe someone else can comment on what they need.

Your stam brethren mostly don’t use the bear, at least for PvP. Dawnbreaker is the much better ultimate.

You could do so many cool things with the ice mage concept. I don’t get why ZOS insists on making awful skills gradually better and calls that a day.

mague

Feanor wrote: »

Your stam brethren mostly don’t use the bear, at least for PvP. Dawnbreaker is the much better ultimate.

Depends.. the Warden was and is and should be a solid class.

Murkmire will allow us to use Nature's Embrace on the bear. Advanced Species will be raised to 3% and the bird is a perma buff of 8%.

1. Cutting Dive
2. Netch
3. Bird of Prey
4. Natures Embrace
5. Bear + Ulti

As stamina this is a 45k HP unitiy with +20% on all damage. Nature's Embrace will heal both for 7500 over 10s with the basic 9000 magicka. You probaly will be able to keep Nature's Embrace up forever. Put Natures Embrace on the backbar an Caltrops or similar to the front.

For caster'dens Natures Embrace will do a heal like 20k or more for bear and caster. Dont know if this can crit, but seems to be good to get rid of shield problems. And it plays more like a warden. And only Bird of Prey and Bear will give 14% more damage and it stacks with Piercing Cold. I dont know how much damage others do, but this is a solid and uniq warden build.

Feanor

@mague

No matter how good it is - it will always be inferior because of the state of the pet AI.

TheGreatBlackBear

So they're really leaving magdens in such a poor state after weeks of testing and (negative) feedback? Disgusting.

Maura_Neysa

Tonturri wrote: »

Can casting the bear ult provide a synergy that gives major zerk on use for a duration? Call it inspiring ferocity or something.

Then bump the cost to 80 if need be (though zos has already nerfed the poor fluffy fella by 30%...).

Give the stam version a different synergy - I'm not so familiar with stamdens tho, maybe someone else can comment on what they need.

A ) That's treading on Storm Atronochs toes, only it requires a synergy and gives it to only one target
B ) That would be completely broken when wearing War Machine/Master Architect. Major Berserk and Major Slayer every 30 seconds....

Maura_Neysa

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Aaaand there is a skill that one of the mages uses in the Murkmire Prologue Quest where they throw roots at you... stun you... and deal damage.

This is so where the Stun should have gone, instead of Arctic Blast.

WillParkinson

Guess I made the right decision to move on then. Ah, well. I'll check back in six months or so, see if they've finally decided to listen. Best to you all!

Maura_Neysa

WillParkinson wrote: »

Guess I made the right decision to move on then. Ah, well. I'll check back in six months or so, see if they've finally decided to listen. Best to you all!

I'm close too, though when I move on, I never come back

TimeDazzler

Increase fetcher infection initial DoT & make it do 50% more damage to someone below 50% health instead of 50% more damage for every second cast. In other words make it similar to poison injection.

Maura_Neysa

Cries wrote: »

Increase fetcher infection initial DoT & make it do 50% more damage to someone below 50% health instead of 50% more damage for every second cast. In other words make it similar to poison injection.

Make Infection scale 10% increase damage every 2 seconds. This means the last 2 seconds are 100% over the first 2 (and current version first cast)
Add in the execute bonus, and now you have a skill thats worth a $#!&

_Ahala_

mague wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Your stam brethren mostly don’t use the bear, at least for PvP. Dawnbreaker is the much better ultimate.

Depends.. the Warden was and is and should be a solid class.

Murkmire will allow us to use Nature's Embrace on the bear. Advanced Species will be raised to 3% and the bird is a perma buff of 8%.

1. Cutting Dive
2. Netch
3. Bird of Prey
4. Natures Embrace
5. Bear + Ulti

As stamina this is a 45k HP unitiy with +20% on all damage. Nature's Embrace will heal both for 7500 over 10s with the basic 9000 magicka. You probaly will be able to keep Nature's Embrace up forever. Put Natures Embrace on the backbar an Caltrops or similar to the front.

For caster'dens Natures Embrace will do a heal like 20k or more for bear and caster. Dont know if this can crit, but seems to be good to get rid of shield problems. And it plays more like a warden. And only Bird of Prey and Bear will give 14% more damage and it stacks with Piercing Cold. I dont know how much damage others do, but this is a solid and uniq warden build.

Natures Embrace on the bear is great... Its just too bad Eternal Guardian just got a 30% damage nerf and is still prone to randomly teleporting away and getting lost in Cyrodil and Battlegrounds... Also please don't run Natures Embrace on a Stamden for the heal… its just not worth it... 7500 healing (3750 in PvP???) for 9000 magicka is so bad its not even funny (and that's taking into consideration that the ability can indeed crit heal)... Vigor would fit much better on a Stamden… And as for Magden, being able to cast the hot on the bear really isn't going to make the shield nerfs more bearable because of the issue I mentioned with the Bear getting lost in Cyrodil

The Advance Species passive damage got a 1% buff which is an actual appreciated buff... Now if zos were to make Screaming Cliff racer better for PvP by slowing down its projectile to land with Deep Fissure again like it did at release and remove the awkward expensive double cast mechanic of Fletcher Infection and give a buff to its projectile speed and dot to make it worth using then Magden may actually gain some PvP viability

Bird of Prey is a perma buff of 8%??? Well it was before for Magden, but now its a passive ability for Stamden which really did not need it... Have fun fitting it on the offensive bar of Magden PvP build when you already need to run Northern Storm, Inner Light, and a Destruction Staff ability... The perma buff is a nerf to Magden PvP believe it or not... Oh and that 60% speed duration nerf is great as well... Its not like Magden's ability to maintain a good major expedition uptime as a magicka spec was a key class defining feature or anything


TLDR: Magden got a whole slew of nerfs even though it was already trash tier in PvP, and the buffs mentioned don't even come close to compensating for that

SilverIce58

_Ahala_ wrote: »

mague wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Your stam brethren mostly don’t use the bear, at least for PvP. Dawnbreaker is the much better ultimate.

Depends.. the Warden was and is and should be a solid class.

Murkmire will allow us to use Nature's Embrace on the bear. Advanced Species will be raised to 3% and the bird is a perma buff of 8%.

1. Cutting Dive
2. Netch
3. Bird of Prey
4. Natures Embrace
5. Bear + Ulti

As stamina this is a 45k HP unitiy with +20% on all damage. Nature's Embrace will heal both for 7500 over 10s with the basic 9000 magicka. You probaly will be able to keep Nature's Embrace up forever. Put Natures Embrace on the backbar an Caltrops or similar to the front.

For caster'dens Natures Embrace will do a heal like 20k or more for bear and caster. Dont know if this can crit, but seems to be good to get rid of shield problems. And it plays more like a warden. And only Bird of Prey and Bear will give 14% more damage and it stacks with Piercing Cold. I dont know how much damage others do, but this is a solid and uniq warden build.

Natures Embrace on the bear is great... Its just too bad Eternal Guardian just got a 30% damage nerf and is still prone to randomly teleporting away and getting lost in Cyrodil and Battlegrounds... Also please don't run Natures Embrace on a Stamden for the heal… its just not worth it... 7500 healing (3750 in PvP???) for 9000 magicka is so bad its not even funny (and that's taking into consideration that the ability can indeed crit heal)... Vigor would fit much better on a Stamden… And as for Magden, being able to cast the hot on the bear really isn't going to make the shield nerfs more bearable because of the issue I mentioned with the Bear getting lost in Cyrodil

The Advance Species passive damage got a 1% buff which is an actual appreciated buff... Now if zos were to make Screaming Cliff racer better for PvP by slowing down its projectile to land with Deep Fissure again like it did at release and remove the awkward expensive double cast mechanic of Fletcher Infection and give a buff to its projectile speed and dot to make it worth using then Magden may actually gain some PvP viability

Bird of Prey is a perma buff of 8%??? Well it was before for Magden, but now its a passive ability for Stamden which really did not need it... Have fun fitting it on the offensive bar of Magden PvP build when you already need to run Northern Storm, Inner Light, and a Destruction Staff ability... The perma buff is a nerf to Magden PvP believe it or not... Oh and that 60% speed duration nerf is great as well... Its not like Magden's ability to maintain a good major expedition uptime as a magicka spec was a key class defining feature or anything


TLDR: Magden got a whole slew of nerfs even though it was already trash tier in PvP, and the buffs mentioned don't even come close to compensating for that

Why would a magden run northern storm in pvp and not permafrost? I mean, thats what i do and i get more kills than when i ran NS.

_Ahala_

SilverIce58 wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

mague wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Your stam brethren mostly don’t use the bear, at least for PvP. Dawnbreaker is the much better ultimate.

Depends.. the Warden was and is and should be a solid class.

Murkmire will allow us to use Nature's Embrace on the bear. Advanced Species will be raised to 3% and the bird is a perma buff of 8%.

1. Cutting Dive
2. Netch
3. Bird of Prey
4. Natures Embrace
5. Bear + Ulti

As stamina this is a 45k HP unitiy with +20% on all damage. Nature's Embrace will heal both for 7500 over 10s with the basic 9000 magicka. You probaly will be able to keep Nature's Embrace up forever. Put Natures Embrace on the backbar an Caltrops or similar to the front.

For caster'dens Natures Embrace will do a heal like 20k or more for bear and caster. Dont know if this can crit, but seems to be good to get rid of shield problems. And it plays more like a warden. And only Bird of Prey and Bear will give 14% more damage and it stacks with Piercing Cold. I dont know how much damage others do, but this is a solid and uniq warden build.

Natures Embrace on the bear is great... Its just too bad Eternal Guardian just got a 30% damage nerf and is still prone to randomly teleporting away and getting lost in Cyrodil and Battlegrounds... Also please don't run Natures Embrace on a Stamden for the heal… its just not worth it... 7500 healing (3750 in PvP???) for 9000 magicka is so bad its not even funny (and that's taking into consideration that the ability can indeed crit heal)... Vigor would fit much better on a Stamden… And as for Magden, being able to cast the hot on the bear really isn't going to make the shield nerfs more bearable because of the issue I mentioned with the Bear getting lost in Cyrodil

The Advance Species passive damage got a 1% buff which is an actual appreciated buff... Now if zos were to make Screaming Cliff racer better for PvP by slowing down its projectile to land with Deep Fissure again like it did at release and remove the awkward expensive double cast mechanic of Fletcher Infection and give a buff to its projectile speed and dot to make it worth using then Magden may actually gain some PvP viability

Bird of Prey is a perma buff of 8%??? Well it was before for Magden, but now its a passive ability for Stamden which really did not need it... Have fun fitting it on the offensive bar of Magden PvP build when you already need to run Northern Storm, Inner Light, and a Destruction Staff ability... The perma buff is a nerf to Magden PvP believe it or not... Oh and that 60% speed duration nerf is great as well... Its not like Magden's ability to maintain a good major expedition uptime as a magicka spec was a key class defining feature or anything


TLDR: Magden got a whole slew of nerfs even though it was already trash tier in PvP, and the buffs mentioned don't even come close to compensating for that

Why would a magden run northern storm in pvp and not permafrost? I mean, thats what i do and i get more kills than when i ran NS.

I swap between the two practically every week... northern storm is great for max mag stacking "20k deepest fissure tooltip" burst Magdens in cp and permafrost is better for the "your all dead when winter comes" brawler type Magdens in no cp... you can get kills with both setups... it just really depends on whether you want to build a full max mag build with 1 domihaus, 1 grothdar 5 necro + 5 shacklebreaker or 5 bright throats or if you want to run something based around spell damage or procs

LeHarrt91

After using the new Arctic Blast recently i can say the for me the skills feels clunky to use and unsatisfying. The skill draws aggro on skill activation and not on impact, which is annoying if trying to line up burst. The animation itself can be cancelled but the projectile does feel slow, and the lack of damage is noticeable for an ice build.

Maybe if the animation was made instant (instead of doing the swirly arms animation) it will feel more fluid to use, the winter winds animation can remain for the instant burst heal just make the animation different to the casting the projectile animation. Also remove the heal over time and add a damage over time to the target thats stunned, I feel that a good single target dot is lacking from ice skills. Yes Frost Clench has a DoT but it is very small.
then make the Heal scale with Health and the DoT scale with Magicka (similar to how Crystalised Slab currently works).