PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Wardens

Maura_Neysa

weedgenius wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

weedgenius wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Can anyone post what the new Tooltp is for Arctic Blast and the morphs?

Does it scale off health?

@max_only No, it doesn't. From the patch notes:

Arctic Blast (morph): This morph now fires a projectile that stuns the target in addition to healing you. It requires an enemy target to cast the ability. This ability also no longer deals damage over time based on your maximum health.

@weedgenius you got that half wrong. The Heal still heals based on max health. The damage that scaled on max health is gone.

Or I got it half right...

Either way, half the information was no good. And bad information is a big part of what’s stops Wardens from getting fixed.

Tatertodd

Joxer61 wrote: »

Said it once and its worth repeating.....if ZOS reads these....

Separate skills for PVE and PVP!!! It can be done. Not hard really. Would save soooo much grief and complaining and in-fighting amongst the two playstyles communities Really...it would. Just do it...don't be scared...leap of faith guys! .

They are still not able to do this. It probably has something to do with coding. The amount of work that it would take to give this treatment to all of the powers and classes of the game is not possible...at least with the resources they currently have. Or maybe the higher uppers want to focus on other long term goals. Whatever the case may be "it is what it is" sadly

MinarasLaure

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

MinarasLaure wrote: »

Arctic blast change is sad and not needed really.
Magdens have stun, it's not ideal but clench works.
I did adapt when they removed stun from deep fissure.
I really don't understand the utility of a skill that heals but needs a target to activate.
That is just ridiculous.
They could keep the skill as it was and add a stun effect the first time you take dmg from an enemy player.
Or at least remove the heal effect but keep the dot.
The skill now doesn't make any sense.

On a side note, can someone please explain me why the community is angry about bird of prey?
The only times I ever slotted the skill in pvp was for when I was running scrolls, that's it.
Is the movement speed so important for your pvp playstile?
I admit that in pvp I rely alot on proc sets and drain pots, which is probably the reason why I never use it.

Well for one thing, the Netch bug means Wardens can’t mount so often. This was countered by movement speed.
Two, Warden doesn’t have a class gap closer. This was okay because movement speed was the gap closer, especially on MagDen, but even StamDen doesn’t have room for one.
Stam Warden had a unquie play stil in that is half stand your ground half kit.
The fact that you could play with or without BoP was a good thing, it’s diversity. This is just another case of ZoS homogenizing everything. Another Stam class being pigeon with all weapon skills. I have know idea what to do with MagDen, the movement speed is how you lined up Fissure, it’s not like the new Stun that moves like a slug will help line anything up.

Ok got it.
Guess it's a playstyle issue then.
Since the removal of stun from deep fissure I got rid of the skill from my bar entirely.
My build is pretty much based on dots and survivability, so in 1vs1 all I need to do is survive and let the dots/drain poisons do their job, that's why I never really used bop

Nolic1

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

cwp303b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not an expert by any means on warden tanking but doesn't the Arctic Blast change remove an important source of minor maim application via the chilled status effect, or at least drastically lower its chance of proccing?

Seems like a bad place to stick the stun. It's now bad at being a reliable heal as well. A poor stonefist imitation.

Any tank that is tanking seriously will not be affected by this. Heroic Slash is a much better application of Minor Maim while also giving you Minor Heroism. For AoE, Impaling Shards + Blockade is enough, and you can opt for using Thurvokun as well.

The morph that heals an ally was and is much better on tanks since it actually give you some utility.

Sorry to burst your bubble but alot of people played Ice tank and this removes there options of running dual ice staff and forces us to use the heroic slash which only applies minor maim to one enemy at a time and with Arctic Blast and the Ice staff wall we could apply it to all enemy's and we could keep it up 100% with all out ice skills but losing this reduces our chance on minor maim up time to less then 50% and forces us to use sword and shield. Also we can run shalks or the new stam set for minor heroism and use deep slash for minor maim on 3 targets with weakening back bar and have 100% on more targets cause we do not just tank single mobs unless its a boss and even they have adds some times.

Maryal

WillParkinson wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

WillParkinson wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

WillParkinson wrote: »

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

I have tried out the new Arctic blast and I must say I'm really sorry about losing one of my already few frost damage abilities. I will miss the frost damage both as tank, DD and healer. It's both the damage itself that I miss and the chance to apply chilled.
And while it makes sense for every class to have their own stun, it's just not something I've missed on my wardens, there are stuns from other skill lines that I prefer anyway, so for me it will just mean I stop slotting Arctic Blast if it goes live as it is on the pts right now.

Quoted for truth.

Stun is absolutely something that many have missed. Blast or at least not combining Polar and Blast together and then giving us this one. It was completely wrong way of doing it.

I didn't miss stun. They never last long, they usually affect only one target, and too many things were stun immune, or were easy to break. BUT! If others miss it, then yes, it should be worked in somewhere. We already have ice clench, so maybe make that a stun since we have other holds.

Okay, clearly you dont PvP.
True, no one misses a Stun in PvE, its useless. Roots are far better.
But in PvP Stun is king. Its most of the reason you get a kill. You need to stop the enemy long enough to finish them off. Without a Stun, anyone with moderate experience and who is not out numbered, will just heal back up.

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

Excuse me? Where does it say this is a thread for Wardens in PvP? We are equally entitled to give our opinions, just as you are. Keep the snippy attitude, because I have every right to my say since I pay for my game and membership just like you.

You're right, I don't PvP, but the whole game doesn't revolve around it either. Those of us who PvE have every right to make suggestions about the game we're playing.

We need more pve'ers posting on these forums.

DanteYoda

_Ahala_ wrote: »

BIRD OF PREY NERF IS ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE!!!!! Has zos completely lost it? That expedition buff uptime was one of the only things Magden had going for it... Magden was already underperforming to the point of extinction and they went ahead and destroyed another class skill in ways unimaginable

Now you know how i felt with Arctic blast..

Tatertodd wrote: »

I think at this point it's best for me to consider other classes. I guess I should of known better when I fell in love with MagWardens but I just can't say no to Ice Dps of any type no matter what the game.

Yeah i think i'm done with *** warden... they can be crafters from now on.. useless class is useless..

Mojomonkeyman

Feedback on Falcons Swiftness (Bird of Prey):

Speaking class design Falcons Swiftness was supposed to balance out the lack of a class gapcloser, which is very important to keep in mind because the class is built on stationary and/or directional non-target maneuvers. Even the signature move and hardest hitter, Scorch and its morphs, is highly dependant on caster maneuverability and setup timing.

The proposed murkmire changes will massively cripple Magicka Wardens ability to set up successful burst combos when thinking about gameplay, too. Currently, the 10s duration of Major Expedition allows for 3 burst attempts per cast of Falcons Swiftness. It enables the Magicka Warden to continue pressure within its long, but still reasonably timed burst setup window tied to the delayed nature of Scorch damage application (3s). The murkmire version will prolong that by 1s (=more setup time for any burst attempt) since you want to be fast to keep up with the target that Scorch is supposed to hit, means you want to cast Falcons Swiftness before every Scorch cast.

Performing the same 3 Scorch driven burst attempts with murkmire Falcons Swiftness will cost about 6k+ more magicka and need 2 seconds longer due to frequent recasts before every Scorch. Thats a massive downwards development, not even taking into account the change to only one bar benefitting from the Minor Berserk buff.

The real impact of the proposed changes becomes obvious when comparing its current performance to the murkmire one.
10s Major Expedition -> 4s Major Expedition (60% less output)
10s Minor Berserk for all skills on both weapon bars -> 10s Minor Berserk for all skills on one weapon bar (50% less output)
10s Major Endurance (unchanged)
Base Cost: 3512 Magicka

If those changes go through, that skill will vanish from my skill bars the moment murkmire hits, after being fundamental part of any build I played on my Warden which I am maining since Vvardenfell was introduced. The cost/performance ratio is juts not good enough anymore.

I feel proposed solutions are not exactly what ZOS is looking for, nonetheless I want to add a very simple solution which would compensate for the availability nerf (only one weapon bar benefitting) while staying within the new Major Expedition limits (4s):
Add 10s Minor Expedition to base funcionality while keeping the 4s Major Expedition.
That simple change would be strong enough to justify the skills rather highish cost and make frequent recasts a choice instead of a necessity.

ESO_Nightingale

Decreasing the cost wont make this skill useful. It would have to give me magicka back in order to USE it.

_Ahala_

Pts 4.2.3 is up and they have nothing to alleviate the horrible imbalance the Magden bird of prey nerf will cause... why are we even here testing and posting our concerns? Making the expedition buff last 4s on a class that literally requires mobility to compete and has no good alternatives is an awful idea... It’s painfully obvious at this point that PvP Magden and the feedback of PvP Magden mains means absolutely nothing to zos... Why have these channels if they only exist to remind the few remaining Magden mains time and time again how little you care? You yourselves remarked that you understood how neglected warden felt, how warden did not have a stun, how ice magic was highly desired, and how buff spammy the class was, how sustain pressured it was, and how little dps it had... this was the feedback of PvP Magdens and yet instead of buffing Magden you nerfed it and buffed Stamden, instead giving Magden a good ice damage stun you gave it a useless health scaling healing one when they already have a whole healing tree and lack damage, instead of giving us ice damage you flat out refused by saying ice is for tanking even though Magden has far less class damaging abilities than other Magicka classes, instead of making our buffs easier to manage you made beserk into a passive as another buff to Stamden and nerf to Magden and practically removed our expedition buff by making the uptime far to short and the cost far too high, instead of buffing Magden sustain you buff general warden sustain and nerfed Magden sustain with cost increases to Magden specific abilities, and instead of giving us dps increases to our abilities or giving us more dps abilities to balance us with other classes you nerfed the damage on the eternal guardian... you failed to address all five of our concerns and in fact managed to accomplish the exact opposite of what us Magdens wanted in the categories of stuns, ice damage, buff management, sustain, and damage... Again I ask... what is the point of these feedback threads... why are we here?

WillParkinson

I wrote to ZoS and explained to them why I was canceling my subscription. Surprisingly, I actually got an answer.

Today I canceled my ESO account. Almost two years I’ve played and enjoyed it, but there are too many things wrong with this game, too many things that need to be addressed within your company, and too many problems that keep this from being a great game.

#1: You keep adding new things without fixing things that have been broken since I started.
#2: Customer service? When a person can send a help request, telling you that there is a problem with dungeons not giving credit for completion to you, and ZoS dances around the problem, and never actually comes up with a fix? That’s poor service.
#3: You’re about to introduce a patch that makes wholesale changes to classes, despite what your customer base has been saying. Wardens are being hit the hardest, and ZoS representatives didn’t even bother to go to the forums and address our concerns? Again, poor service.

These are just a few examples of where Zenimax has fallen flat in this game. It has potential, but too many things go unanswered or are simply ignored, and instead, you try to grab as much money as you can by adding new patterns, new houses, etc, without anything of any real substance.

I’m sorry to go, but in this case, parting ways is probably the best for both of us.

Will Parkinson

***

Greetings,

Thank you for taking the time to write this feedback. I'm sorry to see you go, but I understand your feelings. You are not the first person to say the things you've said. I'll be passing your information along to the leadership teams. While I cannot guarantee they will make any changes, I can say that not all changes that go to PTS make it to the live environment.

I wish you all the best with whatever it is you decide is next for you. Be well.

Thanks,

Mykael

***

So I'm not the first person to say these things, but they're not taking a clue? Sigh.

Drygon

WillParkinson wrote: »

I wrote to ZoS and explained to them why I was canceling my subscription. Surprisingly, I actually got an answer.

Today I canceled my ESO account. Almost two years I’ve played and enjoyed it, but there are too many things wrong with this game, too many things that need to be addressed within your company, and too many problems that keep this from being a great game.

#1: You keep adding new things without fixing things that have been broken since I started.
#2: Customer service? When a person can send a help request, telling you that there is a problem with dungeons not giving credit for completion to you, and ZoS dances around the problem, and never actually comes up with a fix? That’s poor service.
#3: You’re about to introduce a patch that makes wholesale changes to classes, despite what your customer base has been saying. Wardens are being hit the hardest, and ZoS representatives didn’t even bother to go to the forums and address our concerns? Again, poor service.

These are just a few examples of where Zenimax has fallen flat in this game. It has potential, but too many things go unanswered or are simply ignored, and instead, you try to grab as much money as you can by adding new patterns, new houses, etc, without anything of any real substance.

I’m sorry to go, but in this case, parting ways is probably the best for both of us.

Will Parkinson

***

Greetings,

Thank you for taking the time to write this feedback. I'm sorry to see you go, but I understand your feelings. You are not the first person to say the things you've said. I'll be passing your information along to the leadership teams. While I cannot guarantee they will make any changes, I can say that not all changes that go to PTS make it to the live environment.

I wish you all the best with whatever it is you decide is next for you. Be well.

Thanks,

Mykael

***

So I'm not the first person to say these things, but they're not taking a clue? Sigh.

Well i did not go that far i just won't be playing or spending any money until i see good things happening to MAGDEN. IF i find something else during that time guess this account will gather Dust just like my LOL account has been for the past two years.

Then again, i play this game since 2015 and i bought all DLCs and almost all the cosmetics i wanted from the crown store. I would have gotten some things during this crate season too but this time i got nothing, instead i bought some other games on steam and have been playing them.

I would like to keep playing ESO but seeing that i mainly do Battlegrounds, it is anything but fun to play as a Magden, not because it is not doable but because i need to put in a lot more effort to achieve similar results ( and even then lower) that other classes get easier. Buff management is a pain, and now it has been made even worse. Now i have to slot bird of prey on both bars, so down goes the only flex spot i had. Seeing how few free slots we have i do not see why would anyone sacrifice a needed ability for that sorry excuse of a stun but hey, not everyone wants to be optimal i guess.

Still, in my case i will take a step back and monitor the direction the game is going, keep in touch ingame with the guild but not a single penny will be spent.

Peace.

TheGreatBlackBear

Who is our class rep? Does he or she have a voice in these meetings? I just want to know what (if anything) he or she is reporting back to ZOS. And if it's a case if them ignoring community feedback.

LeHarrt91

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Who is our class rep? Does he or she have a voice in these meetings? I just want to know what (if anything) he or she is reporting back to ZOS. And if it's a case if them ignoring community feedback.

There is not 1 singular rep for warden, there are like 12 reps that look after all classes.

mb10

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Who is our class rep? Does he or she have a voice in these meetings? I just want to know what (if anything) he or she is reporting back to ZOS. And if it's a case if them ignoring community feedback.

How on Earth was this rep picked to begin with?

Whoever it is or they are, they're definitely not voicing the concerns of magicka wardens properly

Arctic blast has been absolutely ruined

ccmedaddy

.... or maybe you guys could stop obsessing over class reps and actually direct your anger where it should go: the devs. It's pretty clear that all the good advice given to them by the reps falls on deaf ears.

LeHarrt91

Joy_Division wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

So @Joy_Division is the warden class rep?

We don;t really have a class. If I had my way, the Arctic Blast change would have been handled differently.

As stated in the other Warden Thread, the reps didnt have anything to do with the Arctic Blast change. The Devs made that decision themselves.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

So @Joy_Division is the warden class rep?

We don;t really have a class. If I had my way, the Arctic Blast change would have been handled differently.

As stated in the other Warden Thread, the reps didnt have anything to do with the Arctic Blast change. The Devs made that decision themselves.

Joy suggested it should go on polar which is bad for 3 reasons.

1: impractical as people DO actually use it and its likely more popular over blast.

2: clearly doesn't help the class as wind should not have been the original target for stun as growing swarm/frozen retreat are much more fitting targets.

3: he doesnt participate in warden discord discussions meaning its more likely that he formed his own opinion rather than consulting the public. And/or that he didnt consult many people about it.

Joy i love you man, but you gotta talk to us some more.

ccmedaddy

^ I'm gonna guess Joy suggested Polar Wind as an alternative for Arctic Blast rework because people in this thread have specifically asked for it. You're in the minority as far as the Arctic Blast v. Polar Wind debate goes, at least according to this thread.

As for me, I don't really care as I think both skills are crap. I'm just annoyed that the CC ability we're finally getting after all these months is looking like complete garbage of a skill.

ESO_Nightingale

ccmedaddy wrote: »

^ I'm gonna guess Joy suggested Polar Wind as an alternative for Arctic Blast rework because people in this thread have specifically asked for it. You're in the minority as far as the Arctic Blast v. Polar Wind debate goes, at least according to this thread.

As for me, I don't really care as I think both skills are crap. I'm just annoyed that the CC ability we're finally getting after all these months is looking like complete garbage of a skill.

May be but people requesting polar instead is stupid and not healthy for the future of the class. We dont want to gimp people out of a skill that they like. An option that makes everyone happy is to combine both polar and blast. And to make the new arctic blast a good dps tool. Personally i *** hate polar wind and love blast but i understand that people like it and use it which is something we have to adress and account for.

Tatertodd

WillParkinson wrote: »

I wrote to ZoS and explained to them why I was canceling my subscription. Surprisingly, I actually got an answer.

Today I canceled my ESO account. Almost two years I’ve played and enjoyed it, but there are too many things wrong with this game, too many things that need to be addressed within your company, and too many problems that keep this from being a great game.

#1: You keep adding new things without fixing things that have been broken since I started.
#2: Customer service? When a person can send a help request, telling you that there is a problem with dungeons not giving credit for completion to you, and ZoS dances around the problem, and never actually comes up with a fix? That’s poor service.
#3: You’re about to introduce a patch that makes wholesale changes to classes, despite what your customer base has been saying. Wardens are being hit the hardest, and ZoS representatives didn’t even bother to go to the forums and address our concerns? Again, poor service.

These are just a few examples of where Zenimax has fallen flat in this game. It has potential, but too many things go unanswered or are simply ignored, and instead, you try to grab as much money as you can by adding new patterns, new houses, etc, without anything of any real substance.

I’m sorry to go, but in this case, parting ways is probably the best for both of us.

Will Parkinson

***

Greetings,

Thank you for taking the time to write this feedback. I'm sorry to see you go, but I understand your feelings. You are not the first person to say the things you've said. I'll be passing your information along to the leadership teams. While I cannot guarantee they will make any changes, I can say that not all changes that go to PTS make it to the live environment.

I wish you all the best with whatever it is you decide is next for you. Be well.

Thanks,

Mykael

***

So I'm not the first person to say these things, but they're not taking a clue? Sigh.

Interesting enough I was looking up other MMO options myself and I was considering Final Fantasy. I just need something a little more...grounded. I've been in a daze ever since the closing of City of Heroes so at this point I just need a new trustworthy home that won't pull the rug from under me in the next year or two >_>.

ccmedaddy

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

^ I'm gonna guess Joy suggested Polar Wind as an alternative for Arctic Blast rework because people in this thread have specifically asked for it. You're in the minority as far as the Arctic Blast v. Polar Wind debate goes, at least according to this thread.

As for me, I don't really care as I think both skills are crap. I'm just annoyed that the CC ability we're finally getting after all these months is looking like complete garbage of a skill.

May be but people requesting polar instead is stupid and not healthy for the future of the class. We dont want to gimp people out of a skill that they like. An option that makes everyone happy is to combine both polar and blast. And to make the new arctic blast a good dps tool. Personally i *** hate polar wind and love blast but i understand that people like it and use it which is something we have to adress and account for.

People have suggested making Arctic Blast the base morph and have one morph heal and the other one stun w/ frost dmg scaling with max mag and spell dmg. I feel like this is an easy way to make everyone happy while addressing one of magwarden's biggest difficiencies. Which is to say, this is very unlikely to happen lol.

ESO_Nightingale

ccmedaddy wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

^ I'm gonna guess Joy suggested Polar Wind as an alternative for Arctic Blast rework because people in this thread have specifically asked for it. You're in the minority as far as the Arctic Blast v. Polar Wind debate goes, at least according to this thread.

As for me, I don't really care as I think both skills are crap. I'm just annoyed that the CC ability we're finally getting after all these months is looking like complete garbage of a skill.

May be but people requesting polar instead is stupid and not healthy for the future of the class. We dont want to gimp people out of a skill that they like. An option that makes everyone happy is to combine both polar and blast. And to make the new arctic blast a good dps tool. Personally i *** hate polar wind and love blast but i understand that people like it and use it which is something we have to adress and account for.

People have suggested making Arctic Blast the base morph and have one morph heal and the other one stun w/ frost dmg scaling with max mag and spell dmg. I feel like this is an easy way to make everyone happy while addressing one of magwarden's biggest difficiencies. Which is to say, this is very unlikely to happen lol.

Look at my post history. I am one of the original supporters of that idea.

Making it base makes polar inherit the health based dps aoe to apply chilled to enemies making the skill more useful. Maybe liofa would slot it over budding. Blast absolutely needs to scale off mag and spell dmg.

Joy_Division

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

So @Joy_Division is the warden class rep?

We don;t really have a class. If I had my way, the Arctic Blast change would have been handled differently.

As stated in the other Warden Thread, the reps didnt have anything to do with the Arctic Blast change. The Devs made that decision themselves.

Joy suggested it should go on polar which is bad for 3 reasons.

1: impractical as people DO actually use it and its likely more popular over blast.

2: clearly doesn't help the class as wind should not have been the original target for stun as growing swarm/frozen retreat are much more fitting targets.

3: he doesnt participate in warden discord discussions meaning its more likely that he formed his own opinion rather than consulting the public. And/or that he didnt consult many people about it.

Joy i love you man, but you gotta talk to us some more.

Actually I thought making Polar the base morph would be the best way to keep most folks content.

But that's not where I would have put the stun on in the first place. I main a templar and I have Javelin. That actually does damage, has a very annoying knock back, can proc burning light, activates a passive I need for +10% crit damage, and I think the skill is rather lackluster. So Wardens have a similar projectile, except it doesn't do any damage, just accompanies a small heal and HoT? And I can only use the skill when I have a target in my reticle? That's not something that's getting me excited to go back and PvP on my Warden; it doesn't matter what morph you put it on. I'll pass on playing a Warden.

You are all under the illusion that I or any rep has any influence whatsoever to what solutions the devs come up with the problems we identify. As far as the devs are concerned, you got your stun, your target Dummy parse is in the neighborhood of other classes, and the bear won't die, so the Warden is set. You're not even going to get a reformed magicka morph of the bear because since it can die in PvP, there is still value to the morph (or so I've been told).

So it doesn't matter how much I participate in the Warden discords or how many people I consult. Besides, other reps have given far more input on Wardens than I have.

Drygon

Joy_Division wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

So @Joy_Division is the warden class rep?

We don;t really have a class. If I had my way, the Arctic Blast change would have been handled differently.

As stated in the other Warden Thread, the reps didnt have anything to do with the Arctic Blast change. The Devs made that decision themselves.

Joy suggested it should go on polar which is bad for 3 reasons.

1: impractical as people DO actually use it and its likely more popular over blast.

2: clearly doesn't help the class as wind should not have been the original target for stun as growing swarm/frozen retreat are much more fitting targets.

3: he doesnt participate in warden discord discussions meaning its more likely that he formed his own opinion rather than consulting the public. And/or that he didnt consult many people about it.

Joy i love you man, but you gotta talk to us some more.

Actually I thought making Polar the base morph would be the best way to keep most folks content.

But that's not where I would have put the stun on in the first place. I main a templar and I have Javelin. That actually does damage, has a very annoying knock back, can proc burning light, activates a passive I need for +10% crit damage, and I think the skill is rather lackluster. So Wardens have a similar projectile, except it doesn't do any damage, just accompanies a small heal and HoT? And I can only use the skill when I have a target in my reticle? That's not something that's getting me excited to go back and PvP on my Warden; it doesn't matter what morph you put it on. I'll pass on playing a Warden.

You are all under the illusion that I or any rep has any influence whatsoever to what solutions the devs come up with the problems we identify. As far as the devs are concerned, you got your stun, your target Dummy parse is in the neighborhood of other classes, and the bear won't die, so the Warden is set. You're not even going to get a reformed magicka morph of the bear because since it can die in PvP, there is still value to the morph (or so I've been told).

So it doesn't matter how much I participate in the Warden discords or how many people I consult. Besides, other reps have given far more input on Wardens than I have.

We just have to stop spending money in the game perio. Untill they adress the issues, and let it be know. The more of us that do so the faster they will notice. Potential future gains is the only thing they seem to care. Looks like old players that have already spent money over the years on "exclusive" cosmetics that then returned and even cheaper (I'm talking to you Dro'mathra Seche, 4k crowns) and on DLC and/or ESO+, do not matter that much.

MAgden has been getting the middlefinger for quite a few patches and now we get nerfed even more while Stamden gets buffed compared to us. It seems to be a trend. Who knows maybe they will do something next patch if enough of us stop giving them money enough as to at least notice us.

ESO_Nightingale

Joy_Division wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

So @Joy_Division is the warden class rep?

We don;t really have a class. If I had my way, the Arctic Blast change would have been handled differently.

As stated in the other Warden Thread, the reps didnt have anything to do with the Arctic Blast change. The Devs made that decision themselves.

Joy suggested it should go on polar which is bad for 3 reasons.

1: impractical as people DO actually use it and its likely more popular over blast.

2: clearly doesn't help the class as wind should not have been the original target for stun as growing swarm/frozen retreat are much more fitting targets.

3: he doesnt participate in warden discord discussions meaning its more likely that he formed his own opinion rather than consulting the public. And/or that he didnt consult many people about it.

Joy i love you man, but you gotta talk to us some more.

Actually I thought making Polar the base morph would be the best way to keep most folks content.

But that's not where I would have put the stun on in the first place. I main a templar and I have Javelin. That actually does damage, has a very annoying knock back, can proc burning light, activates a passive I need for +10% crit damage, and I think the skill is rather lackluster. So Wardens have a similar projectile, except it doesn't do any damage, just accompanies a small heal and HoT? And I can only use the skill when I have a target in my reticle? That's not something that's getting me excited to go back and PvP on my Warden; it doesn't matter what morph you put it on. I'll pass on playing a Warden.

You are all under the illusion that I or any rep has any influence whatsoever to what solutions the devs come up with the problems we identify. As far as the devs are concerned, you got your stun, your target Dummy parse is in the neighborhood of other classes, and the bear won't die, so the Warden is set. You're not even going to get a reformed magicka morph of the bear because since it can die in PvP, there is still value to the morph (or so I've been told).

So it doesn't matter how much I participate in the Warden discords or how many people I consult. Besides, other reps have given far more input on Wardens than I have.

I am glad that you were the one who brought up blast when no-one else did. making polar the base morph is a bad idea due to the fact that blast just needs to do damage according to the community. I understand this might have seemed like an attack towards you which i did not intend it to be, just a thought so i could understand why you said you wanted polar as the stun morph which should not be the case as it pidgeon-holes the skill into a future of being 2 bland and bad tank morphs. I am only angry at the combat devs and just upset at the whole situation. As i see it, we aren't under the illusion that you go to class rep meetings and say "this is what the community wants" and i think all of us around here want a dps morph for blast. trust me, i am not angry at you and i'm ever so grateful that you did bring up blast like the other reps failed to do! But i just had to understand what happened here with the suggestion.

Joy_Division

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

So @Joy_Division is the warden class rep?

We don;t really have a class. If I had my way, the Arctic Blast change would have been handled differently.

As stated in the other Warden Thread, the reps didnt have anything to do with the Arctic Blast change. The Devs made that decision themselves.

Joy suggested it should go on polar which is bad for 3 reasons.

1: impractical as people DO actually use it and its likely more popular over blast.

2: clearly doesn't help the class as wind should not have been the original target for stun as growing swarm/frozen retreat are much more fitting targets.

3: he doesnt participate in warden discord discussions meaning its more likely that he formed his own opinion rather than consulting the public. And/or that he didnt consult many people about it.

Joy i love you man, but you gotta talk to us some more.

Actually I thought making Polar the base morph would be the best way to keep most folks content.

But that's not where I would have put the stun on in the first place. I main a templar and I have Javelin. That actually does damage, has a very annoying knock back, can proc burning light, activates a passive I need for +10% crit damage, and I think the skill is rather lackluster. So Wardens have a similar projectile, except it doesn't do any damage, just accompanies a small heal and HoT? And I can only use the skill when I have a target in my reticle? That's not something that's getting me excited to go back and PvP on my Warden; it doesn't matter what morph you put it on. I'll pass on playing a Warden.

You are all under the illusion that I or any rep has any influence whatsoever to what solutions the devs come up with the problems we identify. As far as the devs are concerned, you got your stun, your target Dummy parse is in the neighborhood of other classes, and the bear won't die, so the Warden is set. You're not even going to get a reformed magicka morph of the bear because since it can die in PvP, there is still value to the morph (or so I've been told).

So it doesn't matter how much I participate in the Warden discords or how many people I consult. Besides, other reps have given far more input on Wardens than I have.

I am glad that you were the one who brought up blast when no-one else did. making polar the base morph is a bad idea due to the fact that blast just needs to do damage according to the community. I understand this might have seemed like an attack towards you which i did not intend it to be, just a thought so i could understand why you said you wanted polar as the stun morph which should not be the case as it pidgeon-holes the skill into a future of being 2 bland and bad tank morphs. I am only angry at the combat devs and just upset at the whole situation. As i see it, we aren't under the illusion that you go to class rep meetings and say "this is what the community wants" and i think all of us around here want a dps morph for blast. trust me, i am not angry at you and i'm ever so grateful that you did bring up blast like the other reps failed to do! But i just had to understand what happened here with the suggestion.

You don't understand what I saying (not that it matters). If you want the Live blast, it would be one morph. If you want a heal + stun, it would be the other morph. If you want Polar wind, just dont morph the skill. Everybody gets what they wants.

Except those who wanted to play a warden that was as fun even if its dps was lousy when Morrrowind was released, of course.

Maura_Neysa

Joy_Division wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

So @Joy_Division is the warden class rep?

We don;t really have a class. If I had my way, the Arctic Blast change would have been handled differently.

As stated in the other Warden Thread, the reps didnt have anything to do with the Arctic Blast change. The Devs made that decision themselves.

Joy suggested it should go on polar which is bad for 3 reasons.

1: impractical as people DO actually use it and its likely more popular over blast.

2: clearly doesn't help the class as wind should not have been the original target for stun as growing swarm/frozen retreat are much more fitting targets.

3: he doesnt participate in warden discord discussions meaning its more likely that he formed his own opinion rather than consulting the public. And/or that he didnt consult many people about it.

Joy i love you man, but you gotta talk to us some more.

Actually I thought making Polar the base morph would be the best way to keep most folks content.

But that's not where I would have put the stun on in the first place. I main a templar and I have Javelin. That actually does damage, has a very annoying knock back, can proc burning light, activates a passive I need for +10% crit damage, and I think the skill is rather lackluster. So Wardens have a similar projectile, except it doesn't do any damage, just accompanies a small heal and HoT? And I can only use the skill when I have a target in my reticle? That's not something that's getting me excited to go back and PvP on my Warden; it doesn't matter what morph you put it on. I'll pass on playing a Warden.

You are all under the illusion that I or any rep has any influence whatsoever to what solutions the devs come up with the problems we identify. As far as the devs are concerned, you got your stun, your target Dummy parse is in the neighborhood of other classes, and the bear won't die, so the Warden is set. You're not even going to get a reformed magicka morph of the bear because since it can die in PvP, there is still value to the morph (or so I've been told).

So it doesn't matter how much I participate in the Warden discords or how many people I consult. Besides, other reps have given far more input on Wardens than I have.

Don't forget which Rep it was, that told ZoS that Blast was the wrong place, in the first place. There are 4 of them, that in my eyes are active enough on Wardens to understand the class, and only 1 of them could see that $hit storm the Blast change is making.
Not to mention they are just straight killing the skill. If the stun had been worth anything at all, I mean threshold of Elemental Susceptibility level of usefulness, there would be someone happy for this change, but the New Blast is worthless.

Maura_Neysa

Joy_Division wrote: »

You don't understand what I saying (not that it matters). If you want the Live blast, it would be one morph. If you want a heal + stun, it would be the other morph. If you want Polar wind, just dont morph the skill. Everybody gets what they wants.

Except those who wanted to play a warden that was as fun even if its dps was lousy when Morrrowind was released, of course.

This would be quiet interesting. It almost even sounds like that whole third morph idea, that ZoS says they want to do, but who's ETA is 2024ish.... if they last that long

Actually that would be interesting way of implementing the whole 3rd morph idea. Make all base skills, lose something, while gaining something else when morphed. Would be a really nice way of doing "Tank" morphs, since Tanks usually require far more skill points then another role, for all those situation skills they should have. (maybe split them between Tank and Healer centric skills, since healers are in similar shoes.

HankTwo

Imo, the new arctic blast skill needs at least a small single target DOT, so it can proc chilled. Otherwise the glacial presence passive is pretty wasted on mag warden for PvP.

Maura_Neysa

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, the new arctic blast skill needs at least a small single target DOT, so it can proc chilled. Otherwise the glacial presence passive is pretty wasted on mag warden for PvP.

Simple solution,
- Make Live Blast the Base Skill
- Polar Wind inherits the weak Health based DoT
- New Blast converts to mag scaling single target (HoT, single target DoT, and Stun with fast travel time)

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom