The new path is bad - tanks just lost more CC or healing.

Look at the non-morphed - 3510 magicka for major evasion for people standing in the path.

Now look at non-morphed caltrops - 3510 stamina for 30% snare. Also features massive radius and damage. The damage given is actually more than the enhanced damage morphed version of path...

Considering Major Evasion is on two other NB skills as well, this skill is really bad now. Can this be changed to something more applicable like group immovable or minor stamina steal. Both of these would help NB tanks & their group. The shadow line is meant to be the tank skill line right? We now have a heal or DPS skill in there, when it did both there was some use to NB tanks.

Logged in today and was wondering why my guilds where hemorrhaging players, this is a really bad patch for so many reasons.

wow, WTH ZoS?.

You know that saying "Another Day, Another Dollar?" Well, every patch for NB is "Another Patch, Another Nightblade Nerf"

Seriously ZoS, I don't know why you hate Nightblades so much? People say we're you golden child, your favorite. Oh how wrong they are. I'll keep saying it until it isn't true: The last patch where we were ACTUALLY buffed was in the Imperial City days. That was in 2015 (2016? Meh)!! Every patch, you do something that's either some sort of weird rework of an ability, shift stuff around, or just nerf something. No actual buffs, short of MAYBE unbugging something like Spectral.

Murkmire patch:
DKs: Ehh... idk. Some good and some bad.
NBs: Nerf
Sorc: Eh... yeah nerf. YAY.
Templars BUFF!
Warden: BUFF!

SergeantPink wrote: »

That piercing mark nerf is a little too strong. 5 seconds is too short.

The ability will need somthing else if it’s reduced to 5 seconds. Surprise attack already gives Major Fracture, so maybe consider giving it minor fracture instead?

The ability is hardly used, though it's not unseen (sort of a pun lol). 30 seconds is hell to have it applied to you, but 5 seconds is gutting it. Make it 15 seconds or even 10! But yeah, SA applies MF, and Mark applies MF so I agree they need to change the debuff on Mark.

PTS 4.2.0: Power Extraction (morph): Increased the damage done by this morph by approximately 25%.

I tested Power Extraction



DW/Bow: Steel Tornado + Brutality potion
DW/Bow: Power Extraction
Bow/Bow: Power Extraction
All other variables between the tests were the same, same sets and same types of skills used in the same order against the same target dummies. This was tested with my 4-player dungeon stuff, Acuity+War Machine+Stormfist. Power Extraction was already good for 2H builds, now it's just better. As for Dual wielders, they can either run steel tornado and use brutality potions or just Power Extraction, or shrouded daggers .. whichever tickles their boat.

1) Have Blur apply to Teammates. Since this skill is now going to give out AoE mitigation instead of Dodge Chance, I feel it would be akin to DK's Obsidian Shield and Warden's Frost Cloak in terms of defensive utility. While AoE mitigation might be somewhat more powerful in terms of PvP and the like, the fact of the matter is, its not a unique buff at all since its easily replicated with the Gossamer set, which will potentially be meta to run with the Evasion change anyways, not to mention all the other methods of acquiring this buff (Blade Cloak, Shuffle, etc). The only problem with this suggestion is that Magblade would be even more powerful in PvE content since they'd have access to it too and while it would be a DPS loss for them to run it, it would be a small price to pay for such utility and without Healers giving up another set and having to grind CoS for Gossamer (and trust me when I say, the grind for a Gossamer Necklace is REAL).

2) Give Path of Darkness a synergy that grants Empower w/ Refreshing Path granting 2 Empower stacks. This is honestly a very minor change to NB utility but one that I feel that would greatly benefit NB Tanks and Healers since we're losing out on the damage we had from Refreshing Path and gaining next to nothing for it and while again, Magblade gaining more utility in the form of Twisting Path getting an Empower Synergy for allies to use (easily dealt with by removing the synergy from Twisting) I feel that's a small price to pay to make NB Tanks and Healers more useful.

3) Have Debilitate apply Minor Lifesteal to the target. Trash skill that gains some minor utility for Tanks and Healers to run it. DPS won't use it because it's a DPS loss but at least it'll finally get a functional, albeit minor, purpose and it let's Tanks/Healers get back some of the damage we'd otherwise lose for using Refreshing Path.

4) Have Dark Shade scale on Health and root enemies hit by the AoE attack. I'm also fine with the Trap morph of Fear getting the root but I feel that Dark Shade would benefit from a slight buff since even with the AoE Maim, people still prefer Heroic Slash for obvious reasons. If nothing else, I'd like for the Shade to "inherit" Siphoning Strikes and restore Health+Stamina for the Caster as it's attacking so that it can be used as a sustain tool on top of a Maim dispenser.

5) Reduce the cost of Soul Siphon down to 100 Ultimate. Simply put, this ultimate is bad when compared to other Healer Ultimates on any level. It costs twice as much as Warden's Tree, which also have several other benefits to them, such as Minor Toughness, Major Mending AND refunding some of the Ultimate cost, Templar Ultimate that is a super powerful PvP tool for groups and the Resto Ultimate is godly with all that it does for a slightly lower cost than Soul Siphon. Lowering the cost of this ultimate is hardly gamebreaking.

6) Have Reaper's Mark restore X Max Magic/Stamina (whichever is lower) upon enemy death, instead of Major Berserk. If effect ends before target dies, restore only 20% of X instead. Again, a sustain buff for the downtrodden NB Tanks that can't catch a break. It's a direct nerf to the DPS potential of this skill with the loss of Major Berserk but honestly, who was using this skill outside of vMA runs, if even that. Even with Piercing Mark being nerfed, it's still the go to morph for PvP purposes and Reaper Mark becoming a half decent sustain tool as well as a means of applying Major Fracture should Ice Staff Tanking come into play, so it seems like an alright adjustment to an otherwise meh skill.

7) Alter the Dark Vigor passive to increase healing received for each Shadow ability slotted by 1/2% each on top of its current effects. We're losing Minor Vitality and this is compensation for it. It won't fully make up the difference but a buff's a buff. Hell, you could even increase it to 2/4% and it honestly would still be weaker than DK in any practical application but that would be somewhat powerful in PvP so I'll settle for 2%.

8) Change Dark Veil to a 7/15% dodge chance while blocking. Bake the increased duration previously granted into the skills directly. Keeping Tava Dodge Tanks alive while keeping the flavor for Tanking purposes only, since blocking is a Stamina killer otherwise. It's not like NB has the sustain nor burst heal required to be permablockers in PvP that this change wouldn't alter NB in PvP all that much but offer NB Tanks much needed support in PvE content that they desperately need and it allows them to keep Tava utility.

Sriivah wrote: »

From what I can tell, the cost increases to Killer's Blade and Relentless Focus will do one thing: render not-Redguard stamina Nightblades completely irrelevant in end-game pve. They're already disadvantaged.
Please, add sustain somewhere so people can stop being Redguards, and not be tethered to yawn-inducing heavy attack spam. This applies to all classes, but at least in Wolfhunter I could play my Khajiit stamblade and mostly sustain. Heavy attacks are slow, sticky, and feel like a punishment.

@Sriivah use a ww build on your khajiit stamblade main, that's r that I did

For the Strife Nerf - if Funnel Health is to see any use there needs to be one or two more targets, SOMETHING. Else it's just far too weak. In content where the healing would matter, you don't have nearly the time ZOS seems to think we do to cast spammable skills. I think buffing it to self + 2 allies would be sufficient, along with a small damage buff and equally small healing decrease.

Heck I'd love it if the skill was buffed into being 'strong' and got a cost increase to compensate. I'm tired of fun skills being 'brought in line' with everything else just because other classes don't have stuff that's as interesting or fun. It's okay for skills to be strong - I'd just hate for Funnel Health to become another Mutagen or Rapid Regen, where the skill's worth becomes a matter of 'uptime', but isn't worth actually casting more than once or twice, if you even slot it.

NB tanks don't need an extension to dark cloak's minor protection - they need a lot more than that.

They have just lost minor vitality which is +8% healing whilst minor protection will be ~3% damage reduction after mitigation is factored in. (please bare in mind DK get minor vitality AND a 12% passive for extra healing)

NB tanks need a direction, and ZoS to make a decision about them, and ideally actually try tanking with one. Gilliam was excellent and his videos showed they could tank DLC, but they also did not show any CC being used so in a group it would be likely those mobs would be running around killing the DPS/healer. He also said you kinda really need to play Argonian because for tanking, NB sustain is lacking and Argonian makes it a ton easier.

These changes are once again putting NB tanks further away from being viable in ALL content.

SergeantPink wrote: »

That piercing mark nerf is a little too strong. 5 seconds is too short.

The ability will need somthing else if it’s reduced to 5 seconds. Surprise attack already gives Major Fracture, so maybe consider giving it minor fracture instead?

We really have no reason to take this morph even Nightblade worth their salt can break LoS for 5 seconds. Making this useless. Reaper Mark’s 25% damage buff and stronger heal is now the only morph that matters and that’s that.

It's been a lot longer than a year. Morrowind was the 'killer' though. At no point in NB tanks career have they outperformed DK tank except in the fun factor, and yet they continue to receive nerfs either directly or indirectly. The effects of combat changes are never considered by the combat balance team from the perspective of NB tanks. This needs to change.

You would think with Gilliam on staff now that some insight into nightblade tanking would be present but Zos still looks lost

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

6) Have Reaper's Mark restore X Max Magic/Stamina (whichever is lower) upon enemy death, instead of Major Berserk. If effect ends before target dies, restore only 20% of X instead. Again, a sustain buff for the downtrodden NB Tanks that can't catch a break. It's a direct nerf to the DPS potential of this skill with the loss of Major Berserk but honestly, who was using this skill outside of vMA runs, if even that. Even with Piercing Mark being nerfed, it's still the go to morph for PvP purposes and Reaper Mark becoming a half decent sustain tool as well as a means of applying Major Fracture should Ice Staff Tanking come into play, so it seems like an alright adjustment to an otherwise meh skill.

Like all your suggestions except this one. From a tanking perspective, having things that trigger on killing targets isn't helpful since once the boss is dead, the encounter is over. Even when there are adds, worrying about changing your targeting and mental focus to help sustain just makes things harder. NB tanks need sustain improvement during a fight against a single enemy (i.e. the boss -- and no ZOS heavy attacking doesn't count, even with the "buff" to Siphoning).

Honestly, Reaper's Mark is the hardest skill to make useful without completely gutting the entire skill as it currently is. I was initially going to make it provide Minor Magic/Stamina Steal but since that would be the only source of Stamina steal, I felt like it would make NB even more powerful than they already. I'd also thought of making it apply Minor Vulnerability but again, DPS would benefit too much from it. The only other suggestion would have been to have it apply Major Maim for a few seconds upon activation (like 3-5 seconds max) but even that has some abusive potential in PvP that I honestly couldn't really make the skill balanced in a way that would suit Tanks best that I ultimately settled for a minor sustain tool that may or may not be helpful.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

6) Have Reaper's Mark restore X Max Magic/Stamina (whichever is lower) upon enemy death, instead of Major Berserk. If effect ends before target dies, restore only 20% of X instead. Again, a sustain buff for the downtrodden NB Tanks that can't catch a break. It's a direct nerf to the DPS potential of this skill with the loss of Major Berserk but honestly, who was using this skill outside of vMA runs, if even that. Even with Piercing Mark being nerfed, it's still the go to morph for PvP purposes and Reaper Mark becoming a half decent sustain tool as well as a means of applying Major Fracture should Ice Staff Tanking come into play, so it seems like an alright adjustment to an otherwise meh skill.

Like all your suggestions except this one. From a tanking perspective, having things that trigger on killing targets isn't helpful since once the boss is dead, the encounter is over. Even when there are adds, worrying about changing your targeting and mental focus to help sustain just makes things harder. NB tanks need sustain improvement during a fight against a single enemy (i.e. the boss -- and no ZOS heavy attacking doesn't count, even with the "buff" to Siphoning).

Honestly, Reaper's Mark is the hardest skill to make useful without completely gutting the entire skill as it currently is. I was initially going to make it provide Minor Magic/Stamina Steal but since that would be the only source of Stamina steal, I felt like it would make NB even more powerful than they already. I'd also thought of making it apply Minor Vulnerability but again, DPS would benefit too much from it. The only other suggestion would have been to have it apply Major Maim for a few seconds upon activation (like 3-5 seconds max) but even that has some abusive potential in PvP that I honestly couldn't really make the skill balanced in a way that would suit Tanks best that I ultimately settled for a minor sustain tool that may or may not be helpful.

If it was a NB buff, it would be made to apply minor stamina steal to the mob when it died...