RIP my beloved Sorc
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DinnagaSoul ShrivenMaybe they will change thier mind and not put in a cast time. Mag sorc is my only character so yeah prob won't play again if this accually happens😒0 -
ruikkarikun✭✭✭✭✭
Hey. I'm sure @Alcast don't mide if I post link here about his opinion about mag sorc:Joy_Division wrote: »I'd like to believe that intelligent argument works on people who are not committed ideologues, but I do understand @Derra 's frustration. I have read his posts for years and he had always made insightful commentary (so much so I nominated him for the rep position), yet here we are.
https://youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=B087K6AdPMM
You can show this video to developers on meeting maybe, like you said some polite arguments. Also maybe other class rep. can make their own videos/test like duels pvp, some trials, hard vMA etc. I don't have environment unfortunately to do this. Hope you can do somesthing. Thanks.
0 -
MehVahdJukaar✭✭✭
It would have been a more honorable ending just deleting the class altogether.
R.I.P. Sorcs, 2014-2018
5 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭stop whining all of u sorcs. When we came to complain about sorcs all of u jumped "LeaRn tO pLay Git gUd" and to take shield breaker or something. For all of us who didn't use either shields or evasion, this looks like a good balancing. Stop looking from the perspective of ur own class and look at the gameplay overall. There's been reasons for this change to happen, try to see the reason and not be carried by ur class anymore. Btw, not only sorc is affected. Magnbs also use absorb shields, light armor magplars also.-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube0 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭stop whining all of u sorcs. When we came to complain about sorcs all of u jumped "LeaRn tO pLay Git gUd" and to take shield breaker or something. For all of us who didn't use either shields or evasion, this looks like a good balancing. Stop looking from the perspective of ur own class and look at the gameplay overall. There's been reasons for this change to happen, try to see the reason and not be carried by ur class anymore. Btw, not only sorc is affected. Magnbs also use absorb shields, light armor magplars also.
Repeat this to yourself next time when some Mag Sorc wouldn't be able to carry your squishy stamina arse in the vet HM- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
9 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For all of us who didn't use either shields or evasion, this looks like a good balancing.
„This is a buff if you didn’t use it.“Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.8 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Joy_Division
Look, you can talk to ZOS calmly and provide thought-out feedback. That's good and exactly what a Rep is for.
But at look at the patch notes. Your past feedback got ignored. Sorcs in particular got hefty nerfs, and the buffs are decoy buffs at best. This draws a very clear picture about how ZOS value the reps and the players, and how they are gonna treat the game.
We've had constructive discussions over and over. This era of social media is the easiest it has ever been for developers to gather insights. But if that gets blatantly ignored for such a long period of time, you have to conclude feedback isn't the issue. It's how the feedback is being treated - and WHO is treating it.
So, go to ZOS, be polite and show manners, it makes it so easy for a certain someone. But if you really wanna change things, ZOS have to rework their working behaviour. They have to rework their working head staff. And those changes are drastic and won't be achieved by kindly asking for a few changes now. This situation will come up again if nothing is changed fundamentally. In other words, the French peasants didn't just kindly send a few reps to voice their concerns. They grabbed their pitchforks and stormed the Bastille. If you really want change, now is the time to get some heads rolling.
Get what I mean? Oh, and to be clear, I am very thankful for the hard and unpaid work you reps are doing, don't forget that!
3 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭
Im a NB and im not celebrating. Actually im surprised you stayed with sorc this long. I started this game with magsorc with Morrowind and I hated it. The worst sustain I have ever seen in a game.
My sorc in Diablo was the best. Near unlimited sustain, unlimited teleport mobility and a skill that hits everything on the screen.
Then frustrated I switched to stamblade, and its one of the best, it was like night and day. And I actually started to have fun.
You should make a stamblade, you will have fun.
Or a stamwarden since that looks like its going to be insane.4 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »@Joy_Division is it ok if we throw a hissy fit now yeah? That we waited for the changes and have them be actually worse than anyone imagined?
I´m eagerly awaiting a reply.
@Derra
Yes.
I would ask one other thing though: Instead of throwing a hissy fit filled with unproductive and incoherent anger that is not likely to clearly explain and articulate the very real problems with the proposed changes, take some time to compose a thoughtful and objective post that will spell out precisely why these changes would undermine mag sorcs to such a degree they wouldn't be worth playing.
And I would add, showing them actual combat Vs other players on the PTS will make your argument more than just theoretical. ZOS thinks these changes are playable, show them (aside from just telling them), that they are not.
I very much believe this change should not make it through Live and that's probably the best way to ensure it does not.
@Joy_Division I have to say - from my perspective:
I´ve tried to provide meaningful feedback on sorc (and on shields for that matter bc i never liked them aswell - i even made a topic about harness back in when they changed all sustain to point out it was broken bc it was still scaling resource return) via forums and after than in the class discord.
I can´t anymore. My interest to provide feedback - like i did constantly ever since the classrep discords got established has died.
I´ve posted to one of the reps what i think would have to be changed to make sorc vaible with the current shield changes. That´s it.
Edit: I´m not even completely opposed to the changes. A cut like this was needed to work on the class in any meaningful way. It would just have needed compensation on defense which it got absolutely none.
Even the current state is somewhat salvageable - except for pets. But nobody listens.
The problem with this is that i think throwing a hissy fit is ultimately going to achieve more. Because all the nerfs we see are related to whining of idiots (hissy fits) and lack of understanding of the game by the devs.
So yeah from my perspective throwing a fit is EXACTLY what sorcs should do now - because it´s the only thing the devs listen to apparently when it comes to forum/discord (classreps figured into this - they don´t seem to listen to you aswell).
I don´t see any point in rationally discussing or explaining anything (for me as a normal player). I´ve tried that. Tell me which of the sorc painpoints discussed in classrep notes have been adressed?
Sustain? They actually went and nerfed darkdeal.
I can´t even be bothered to adress every point brought up just to point out that NONE has been adressed. You know yourself probably.
They even managed to further nerf runecage this patch - an ability i saw nobody use since wolfhunter.
Amen!
There have been so many constructive and objective proposals regarding sorc balance, but all of them have been ignored in favor of stamblades throwing hissy fits about everything. In fact their throwing hissy fits made them the strongest class and they even continue to get buffed.
If logic doesn't work, you have to go for emotions.5 -
KingLogix✭✭✭Methariorn wrote: »I felt that I have been fighting more damage shields then health bars for the last 4 years. I am a happy stam dk right now
I got the feeling you'll be a very sad stam dk asa the stamblade and stamden pop of cyrodill will have a demografic "boom" or do you really belive that most of the magicka sorc out there will come in pvp just to be an ap back for the ohters? And a Stambuild should have no problem putting pressure on a magicka sorc. Magicka sorc it's great vs potato but mediocre at best vs anyone decent.
Being a stam dk/stam sorc main, i'll fight stam blades and stamdens over mag sorcs ANY day. Mag sorcs where multiplying by the minute when summerset launched. There was definitely more damage shields then health bars. Although I hate mag sorcs, i think the 1 sec cast time was over kill0 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭stop whining all of u sorcs. When we came to complain about sorcs all of u jumped "LeaRn tO pLay Git gUd" and to take shield breaker or something. For all of us who didn't use either shields or evasion, this looks like a good balancing. Stop looking from the perspective of ur own class and look at the gameplay overall. There's been reasons for this change to happen, try to see the reason and not be carried by ur class anymore. Btw, not only sorc is affected. Magnbs also use absorb shields, light armor magplars also.
Repeat this to yourself next time when some Mag Sorc wouldn't be able to carry your squishy stamina arse in the vet HM
sorry but i solo any non-dlc vet on a stamplar. Don't need and didn't need any magsorc to carry me. Sure they have awesome dps, even my own magsorc is between my best chars even tho it's an off char, but it doesn't mean i need them.-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭stop whining all of u sorcs. When we came to complain about sorcs all of u jumped "LeaRn tO pLay Git gUd" and to take shield breaker or something. For all of us who didn't use either shields or evasion, this looks like a good balancing. Stop looking from the perspective of ur own class and look at the gameplay overall. There's been reasons for this change to happen, try to see the reason and not be carried by ur class anymore. Btw, not only sorc is affected. Magnbs also use absorb shields, light armor magplars also.
Repeat this to yourself next time when some Mag Sorc wouldn't be able to carry your squishy stamina arse in the vet HM
sorry but i solo any non-dlc vet on a stamplar. Don't need and didn't need any magsorc to carry me. Sure they have awesome dps, even my own magsorc is between my best chars even tho it's an off char, but it doesn't mean i need them.
I look at this from the perspective of playing every class.
But i favour stamina, this change is stupid and has killed light armour and mag sorc.
Its funny you're telling people to stop look from your own class and look at the overall when you're commentating on a change that doesn't effect your class but only gives your class an advantage and you think of it as a good change.
Literally contradicting yourself.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭I wonder if anyone ever actually left the game because of these changes. All I see is a bunch of whining with very little arguments.
Meta changes, builds changes, balance changes. Get. Over. It.
Adapt and survive.
PTS is the Public Test Server.
Expecting people to "adapt" during a test phase is counterproductive, I don't even understand why any sane person wouldn't comprehend this.
Don't expect many arguments about changes when the PTS wasn't even up for a day as of the time you've posted. People were mostly talking about the patch notes, which I don't think is something you can take away from them discussing. Besides as if you thought there was enough time for testing as of then or now.
Aside from your idiotic reality check statement because people are alarmed, people can and will be responsive to change because they are the ones who invest into the company. If you don't like that, get over it. People are still going to give a damn regardless if you like it or not. You really don't outweigh their thoughts, only a selfish/delusional person would think otherwise.
Edited by SirMewser on September 18, 2018 6:17PM2 -
StShoot✭✭✭✭Greetings, we've removed a few nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a reminder to keep your posts in line with the forum rules. Comments that are in violation, will result in account actions. Posts need to remain civil and constructive, otherwise, you may jeopardize your account. Thank you for your understanding.
This is the closest thing we will ever see in the forum, to a reaction from zos...3 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭BlackLabel wrote: »Bright side: you have a Magicka bone pirate set now!
There are a lot of good and interesting things in the patch notes. But the cast time on wards does me make not give a ***.
Wards are now only interesting for heavy armor users in PvE and PvP. They do not rely on it, but can utilize a ward cast now and then in their window of cc immunity and benefit from the increased ward mitigation. Light armor users can try to heal or gtfo.no CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored0 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭And on live they keep saying that community is very important -_-. They not even listened class reps.Edited by gepe87 on September 19, 2018 10:26AMGepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language3 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I wonder if anyone ever actually left the game because of these changes. All I see is a bunch of whining with very little arguments.
Meta changes, builds changes, balance changes. Get. Over. It.
Adapt and survive.
PTS is the Public Test Server.
Expecting people to "adapt" during a test phase is counterproductive, I don't even understand why any sane person wouldn't comprehend this.
Don't expect many arguments about changes when the PTS wasn't even up for a day as of the time you've posted. People were mostly talking about the patch notes, which I don't think is something you can take away from them discussing. Besides as if you thought there was enough time for testing as of then or now.
Aside from your idiotic reality check statement because people are alarmed, people can and will be responsive to change because they are the ones who invest into the company. If you don't like that, get over it. People are still going to give a damn regardless if you like it or not. You really don't outweigh their thoughts, only a selfish/delusional person would think otherwise.
Exactly because it's so soon, people shouldn't be "rip sorc" or "quitting" and instead, they should be out, as you said, testing! That's what I have been doing. You can either test changes and complain, or stay quiet and wait. These people whining are not testing, there was time for that yet, but they are already crying "rip sorc".
Give it a few more days, we'll have alcast come up with some new build(himself having joined the crying side of things, but at least he had arguments and was testing) and things will start to look good again because that's how metamimics work. They don't know *** about the game, they have zero creativity and that's why these changes hurt them, because they can't adapt by themselves.
And here's hoping that people learn to open pts first before pitchforks are out LITERALLY 5 minutes after natch potes came out. 5 damn minutes. And in under 30 there were floods of posts, yet I'm sure in 30 minutes no one had even open the server yet.
So yeah... Whining without tests and arguments, that's what I'm still seeing around. Except maybe on the official feedback thread, but not everywhere else.
Have a good day 0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Because they want to make it pro-active:Why would you add a cast time to a reactive defense?
"Adding a cast time and increasing the duration makes this an ability to use proactively before damage happens, or at opportune times during combat."
Again, because they are supposed to be used pro-actively before the damage happens, so their duration needs to be longer upfront.Why would you make shields last nine seconds when one shield typically won't survive one GCD?
Because they want shields to be more useful for heavy armor builds:Why should shields benefit from defense values of a light armor class?
"Heavy Armor players in particular will receive much more effective damage shields now. This is intended to make damage shields a more potent tools for tanks."
I don't agree how this is handled either, but this is not feedback that will sway ZOS one bit. You have to read and adress their stated intent.
Don't just say "this won't let me use shields reactively", because then ZOS will just say that that was what they wanted and think they did the right thing. Say why magicka characters need a reactive defense. Say that gameplay mechanics in high end content requires reaction, and magicka characters don't have enough stamina to rely on roll dodge and blocks. Whatever. Just don't talk past ZOS and expect them to listen.
You're asking me to explain to ZOS why it was stupid to Nerf a shield that requires FIVE PIECES OF LIGHT ARMOR TO USE because it is intended for heavy armor wearers?
Now say that to yourself a few times and let it sink in... How can a heavy armor user have more effective damage shields when they can't equip the shield they just nerfed to begin with?
I don't spend the time explaining this kind of idiocy because I assume everyone knows this, or has basic knowledge of the game.
If the designers don't, they don't belong in their jobs. Given the number of rage quit subs they won't keep them for long.3 -
KBKB✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »@Joy_Division is it ok if we throw a hissy fit now yeah? That we waited for the changes and have them be actually worse than anyone imagined?
I´m eagerly awaiting a reply.
@Derra
Yes.
I would ask one other thing though: Instead of throwing a hissy fit filled with unproductive and incoherent anger that is not likely to clearly explain and articulate the very real problems with the proposed changes, take some time to compose a thoughtful and objective post that will spell out precisely why these changes would undermine mag sorcs to such a degree they wouldn't be worth playing.
And I would add, showing them actual combat Vs other players on the PTS will make your argument more than just theoretical. ZOS thinks these changes are playable, show them (aside from just telling them), that they are not.
I very much believe this change should not make it through Live and that's probably the best way to ensure it does not.
If they think that this is going to be fair and balanced combat then they honestly aren't bright enough to bother arguing with. There can be no meeting of the minds with this. No negotiation. No begging for favor. It's THAT bad
Why would you add a cast time to a reactive defense? Why would you make them interruptible when a shield user typically has low health and low mitigation underneath?
Why would you make shields last nine seconds when one shield typically won't survive one GCD?
Why would they make shields critable when they themselves cannot crit? Why should shields benefit from defense values of a light armor class? Do you really hate us that much?
The only answer is to let them do this, and wait for class change tokens on the clown store.
No, I do not hate "us [sorcs]" that much. I know you and other folks are disappointed, but I and the other reps had nothing to do with the shield changes and am not responsible for them.
I will find out in the meeting what their thinking was in our meeting next week. I'm not going to beg. I and the other reps are going to tell ZOS without getting pissed off and indignant why those changes are problematic and should never make it Live. Hopefully since I'm not pissed off and indignant, the reasoning will be clear & objective, and they will recognize the changes were misguided.
If they don't make the change, then I will conclude the Class Rep program has failed in its function.
Waiting for a class change token, while an amusing way to express disappointment, isn;t an answer because if you're this passionate about playing a sorc, then well, it's not like running a stam NB is going to make the game fun for you will it? Especially since it take a couple says to level one up to 50 in any event.
@Joy_Division
Sorry to say mate if that change goes live the Class reps have failed and should resign. They are our only voice to ZOS and they have dramatically failed in there core function. When they took the role they represented the player base/classes and to an extent ZOS as well (as us plebs could never afford the time of ZOS). This will be the worst patch since 1.3 and its going through with the class rep system having little to no effect, It would also be more of a statement if you opted to resign over a such a change.
But seriously all well and good to take the role and the fan fare when everyone loves you and is blowing smoke up your wazoo however they are there to provide class and community feed back to the devs in doing so some absolutely illogical, impracticable and unplayable changes have been let through. Not so easy when everyone is baying for blood because YOU ALL HAVE FAILED IN YOUR RESPECTIVE ROLES. So I ask what is it you're good for?
Aware reps and ZOS have an impending discussion please change my mind,1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »@Joy_Division is it ok if we throw a hissy fit now yeah? That we waited for the changes and have them be actually worse than anyone imagined?
I´m eagerly awaiting a reply.
@Derra
Yes.
I would ask one other thing though: Instead of throwing a hissy fit filled with unproductive and incoherent anger that is not likely to clearly explain and articulate the very real problems with the proposed changes, take some time to compose a thoughtful and objective post that will spell out precisely why these changes would undermine mag sorcs to such a degree they wouldn't be worth playing.
And I would add, showing them actual combat Vs other players on the PTS will make your argument more than just theoretical. ZOS thinks these changes are playable, show them (aside from just telling them), that they are not.
I very much believe this change should not make it through Live and that's probably the best way to ensure it does not.
If they think that this is going to be fair and balanced combat then they honestly aren't bright enough to bother arguing with. There can be no meeting of the minds with this. No negotiation. No begging for favor. It's THAT bad
Why would you add a cast time to a reactive defense? Why would you make them interruptible when a shield user typically has low health and low mitigation underneath?
Why would you make shields last nine seconds when one shield typically won't survive one GCD?
Why would they make shields critable when they themselves cannot crit? Why should shields benefit from defense values of a light armor class? Do you really hate us that much?
The only answer is to let them do this, and wait for class change tokens on the clown store.
No, I do not hate "us [sorcs]" that much. I know you and other folks are disappointed, but I and the other reps had nothing to do with the shield changes and am not responsible for them.
I will find out in the meeting what their thinking was in our meeting next week. I'm not going to beg. I and the other reps are going to tell ZOS without getting pissed off and indignant why those changes are problematic and should never make it Live. Hopefully since I'm not pissed off and indignant, the reasoning will be clear & objective, and they will recognize the changes were misguided.
If they don't make the change, then I will conclude the Class Rep program has failed in its function.
Waiting for a class change token, while an amusing way to express disappointment, isn;t an answer because if you're this passionate about playing a sorc, then well, it's not like running a stam NB is going to make the game fun for you will it? Especially since it take a couple says to level one up to 50 in any event.
@Joy_Division
Sorry to say mate if that change goes live the Class reps have failed and should resign. They are our only voice to ZOS and they have dramatically failed in there core function. When they took the role they represented the player base/classes and to an extent ZOS as well (as us plebs could never afford the time of ZOS). This will be the worst patch since 1.3 and its going through with the class rep system having little to no effect, It would also be more of a statement if you opted to resign over a such a change.
But seriously all well and good to take the role and the fan fare when everyone loves you and is blowing smoke up your wazoo however they are there to provide class and community feed back to the devs in doing so some absolutely illogical, impracticable and unplayable changes have been let through. Not so easy when everyone is baying for blood because YOU ALL HAVE FAILED IN YOUR RESPECTIVE ROLES. So I ask what is it you're good for?
Aware reps and ZOS have an impending discussion please change my mind,
1. He just said that they would probably quit because they cant talk sense into ZOS. If the negotiations fail.
2. These changes went live without class rep knowledge. They suggested a problem, and clearly ZOS went off the rails with the solution.
3. Joy is as fed up as we all are. Alcast is as pissed as we all are. He's a class rep too, and you've seen the video he posted?
@KBKB lay off the classreps, their going to meet with ZOS on the 25th and make it very clear this was a bad idea. If they fail, take it as a sign that ZOS isn't willing to lisen to anyone but ZOS and vote with your wallet. Dont take it out on the people trying to help you, for *** sake man.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on September 21, 2018 2:20AM3 -
KBKB✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »@Joy_Division is it ok if we throw a hissy fit now yeah? That we waited for the changes and have them be actually worse than anyone imagined?
I´m eagerly awaiting a reply.
@Derra
Yes.
I would ask one other thing though: Instead of throwing a hissy fit filled with unproductive and incoherent anger that is not likely to clearly explain and articulate the very real problems with the proposed changes, take some time to compose a thoughtful and objective post that will spell out precisely why these changes would undermine mag sorcs to such a degree they wouldn't be worth playing.
And I would add, showing them actual combat Vs other players on the PTS will make your argument more than just theoretical. ZOS thinks these changes are playable, show them (aside from just telling them), that they are not.
I very much believe this change should not make it through Live and that's probably the best way to ensure it does not.
If they think that this is going to be fair and balanced combat then they honestly aren't bright enough to bother arguing with. There can be no meeting of the minds with this. No negotiation. No begging for favor. It's THAT bad
Why would you add a cast time to a reactive defense? Why would you make them interruptible when a shield user typically has low health and low mitigation underneath?
Why would you make shields last nine seconds when one shield typically won't survive one GCD?
Why would they make shields critable when they themselves cannot crit? Why should shields benefit from defense values of a light armor class? Do you really hate us that much?
The only answer is to let them do this, and wait for class change tokens on the clown store.
No, I do not hate "us [sorcs]" that much. I know you and other folks are disappointed, but I and the other reps had nothing to do with the shield changes and am not responsible for them.
I will find out in the meeting what their thinking was in our meeting next week. I'm not going to beg. I and the other reps are going to tell ZOS without getting pissed off and indignant why those changes are problematic and should never make it Live. Hopefully since I'm not pissed off and indignant, the reasoning will be clear & objective, and they will recognize the changes were misguided.
If they don't make the change, then I will conclude the Class Rep program has failed in its function.
Waiting for a class change token, while an amusing way to express disappointment, isn;t an answer because if you're this passionate about playing a sorc, then well, it's not like running a stam NB is going to make the game fun for you will it? Especially since it take a couple says to level one up to 50 in any event.
@Joy_Division
Sorry to say mate if that change goes live the Class reps have failed and should resign. They are our only voice to ZOS and they have dramatically failed in there core function. When they took the role they represented the player base/classes and to an extent ZOS as well (as us plebs could never afford the time of ZOS). This will be the worst patch since 1.3 and its going through with the class rep system having little to no effect, It would also be more of a statement if you opted to resign over a such a change.
But seriously all well and good to take the role and the fan fare when everyone loves you and is blowing smoke up your wazoo however they are there to provide class and community feed back to the devs in doing so some absolutely illogical, impracticable and unplayable changes have been let through. Not so easy when everyone is baying for blood because YOU ALL HAVE FAILED IN YOUR RESPECTIVE ROLES. So I ask what is it you're good for?
Aware reps and ZOS have an impending discussion please change my mind,
1. He just said that they would probably quit because they cant talk sense into ZOS.
2. These changes went live without class rep knowledge. They suggested a problem, and clearly ZOS went off the rails with the solution.
3. Joy is as fed up as we all are. Alcast is as pissed as we all are. He's a class rep too, and you've seen the video he posted?
@KBKB lay off the classreps, their going to meet with ZOS on the 25th and make it very clear this was a bad idea. If they fail, take it as a sign that ZOS isn't willing to lisen to anyone but ZOS and vote with your wallet. Dont take it out on the people trying to help you, for *** sake man.
I'll believe the quit when I see it, Well who else? these are my class reps? I have a sorc he is meant to represent me to ZOS and all I have is a 2 sec cast on my wards and a build I have been tinkering with slightly for 4 years is useless.
Toothless tigers happy to take the role when everyone loves them and they are getting special attention from ZOS (bet that did wonders for their E-egos) Now it's tough or its the actual reason they were placed into the rep system in the first place (to not let howlers like this through the PTS) and they have all gone to water "ZOS doesnt listen Q.Q" Well make them listen you have a darn shot more than any other player who just had their main gutted. Ridiculous!
1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »@Joy_Division is it ok if we throw a hissy fit now yeah? That we waited for the changes and have them be actually worse than anyone imagined?
I´m eagerly awaiting a reply.
@Derra
Yes.
I would ask one other thing though: Instead of throwing a hissy fit filled with unproductive and incoherent anger that is not likely to clearly explain and articulate the very real problems with the proposed changes, take some time to compose a thoughtful and objective post that will spell out precisely why these changes would undermine mag sorcs to such a degree they wouldn't be worth playing.
And I would add, showing them actual combat Vs other players on the PTS will make your argument more than just theoretical. ZOS thinks these changes are playable, show them (aside from just telling them), that they are not.
I very much believe this change should not make it through Live and that's probably the best way to ensure it does not.
If they think that this is going to be fair and balanced combat then they honestly aren't bright enough to bother arguing with. There can be no meeting of the minds with this. No negotiation. No begging for favor. It's THAT bad
Why would you add a cast time to a reactive defense? Why would you make them interruptible when a shield user typically has low health and low mitigation underneath?
Why would you make shields last nine seconds when one shield typically won't survive one GCD?
Why would they make shields critable when they themselves cannot crit? Why should shields benefit from defense values of a light armor class? Do you really hate us that much?
The only answer is to let them do this, and wait for class change tokens on the clown store.
No, I do not hate "us [sorcs]" that much. I know you and other folks are disappointed, but I and the other reps had nothing to do with the shield changes and am not responsible for them.
I will find out in the meeting what their thinking was in our meeting next week. I'm not going to beg. I and the other reps are going to tell ZOS without getting pissed off and indignant why those changes are problematic and should never make it Live. Hopefully since I'm not pissed off and indignant, the reasoning will be clear & objective, and they will recognize the changes were misguided.
If they don't make the change, then I will conclude the Class Rep program has failed in its function.
Waiting for a class change token, while an amusing way to express disappointment, isn;t an answer because if you're this passionate about playing a sorc, then well, it's not like running a stam NB is going to make the game fun for you will it? Especially since it take a couple says to level one up to 50 in any event.
@Joy_Division
Sorry to say mate if that change goes live the Class reps have failed and should resign. They are our only voice to ZOS and they have dramatically failed in there core function. When they took the role they represented the player base/classes and to an extent ZOS as well (as us plebs could never afford the time of ZOS). This will be the worst patch since 1.3 and its going through with the class rep system having little to no effect, It would also be more of a statement if you opted to resign over a such a change.
But seriously all well and good to take the role and the fan fare when everyone loves you and is blowing smoke up your wazoo however they are there to provide class and community feed back to the devs in doing so some absolutely illogical, impracticable and unplayable changes have been let through. Not so easy when everyone is baying for blood because YOU ALL HAVE FAILED IN YOUR RESPECTIVE ROLES. So I ask what is it you're good for?
Aware reps and ZOS have an impending discussion please change my mind,
1. He just said that they would probably quit because they cant talk sense into ZOS.
2. These changes went live without class rep knowledge. They suggested a problem, and clearly ZOS went off the rails with the solution.
3. Joy is as fed up as we all are. Alcast is as pissed as we all are. He's a class rep too, and you've seen the video he posted?
@KBKB lay off the classreps, their going to meet with ZOS on the 25th and make it very clear this was a bad idea. If they fail, take it as a sign that ZOS isn't willing to lisen to anyone but ZOS and vote with your wallet. Dont take it out on the people trying to help you, for *** sake man.
I'll believe the quit when I see it, Well who else? these are my class reps? I have a sorc he is meant to represent me to ZOS and all I have is a 2 sec cast on my wards and a build I have been tinkering with slightly for 4 years is useless.
Toothless tigers happy to take the role when everyone loves them and they are getting special attention from ZOS (bet that did wonders for their E-egos) Now it's tough or its the actual reason they were placed into the rep system in the first place (to not let howlers like this through the PTS) and they have all gone to water "ZOS doesnt listen Q.Q" Well make them listen you have a darn shot more than any other player who just had their main gutted. Ridiculous!
We have been screaming at ZOS for straight -years-. The class reps are a final in a long list of community outreach by ZOS. They've invited streamers and other players to give them advice and have on more then one occasion ignored it completely!
Your looking for someone to blame. It's not even productive, it's just naked vindictiveness. Stop. Leave. You're not productive to anyone at this point. They meet with ZOS on the 25th, a pre-set time under pre-set conditions, they do not have a unconditional line in. You're being. Unreasonable.
Also: Joy was a templar class rep. I dont know who the sorc class reps are. He's not the man you should be screaming at even by your definition.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on September 21, 2018 2:48AM3 -
KBKB✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »@Joy_Division is it ok if we throw a hissy fit now yeah? That we waited for the changes and have them be actually worse than anyone imagined?
I´m eagerly awaiting a reply.
@Derra
Yes.
I would ask one other thing though: Instead of throwing a hissy fit filled with unproductive and incoherent anger that is not likely to clearly explain and articulate the very real problems with the proposed changes, take some time to compose a thoughtful and objective post that will spell out precisely why these changes would undermine mag sorcs to such a degree they wouldn't be worth playing.
And I would add, showing them actual combat Vs other players on the PTS will make your argument more than just theoretical. ZOS thinks these changes are playable, show them (aside from just telling them), that they are not.
I very much believe this change should not make it through Live and that's probably the best way to ensure it does not.
If they think that this is going to be fair and balanced combat then they honestly aren't bright enough to bother arguing with. There can be no meeting of the minds with this. No negotiation. No begging for favor. It's THAT bad
Why would you add a cast time to a reactive defense? Why would you make them interruptible when a shield user typically has low health and low mitigation underneath?
Why would you make shields last nine seconds when one shield typically won't survive one GCD?
Why would they make shields critable when they themselves cannot crit? Why should shields benefit from defense values of a light armor class? Do you really hate us that much?
The only answer is to let them do this, and wait for class change tokens on the clown store.
No, I do not hate "us [sorcs]" that much. I know you and other folks are disappointed, but I and the other reps had nothing to do with the shield changes and am not responsible for them.
I will find out in the meeting what their thinking was in our meeting next week. I'm not going to beg. I and the other reps are going to tell ZOS without getting pissed off and indignant why those changes are problematic and should never make it Live. Hopefully since I'm not pissed off and indignant, the reasoning will be clear & objective, and they will recognize the changes were misguided.
If they don't make the change, then I will conclude the Class Rep program has failed in its function.
Waiting for a class change token, while an amusing way to express disappointment, isn;t an answer because if you're this passionate about playing a sorc, then well, it's not like running a stam NB is going to make the game fun for you will it? Especially since it take a couple says to level one up to 50 in any event.
@Joy_Division
Sorry to say mate if that change goes live the Class reps have failed and should resign. They are our only voice to ZOS and they have dramatically failed in there core function. When they took the role they represented the player base/classes and to an extent ZOS as well (as us plebs could never afford the time of ZOS). This will be the worst patch since 1.3 and its going through with the class rep system having little to no effect, It would also be more of a statement if you opted to resign over a such a change.
But seriously all well and good to take the role and the fan fare when everyone loves you and is blowing smoke up your wazoo however they are there to provide class and community feed back to the devs in doing so some absolutely illogical, impracticable and unplayable changes have been let through. Not so easy when everyone is baying for blood because YOU ALL HAVE FAILED IN YOUR RESPECTIVE ROLES. So I ask what is it you're good for?
Aware reps and ZOS have an impending discussion please change my mind,
1. He just said that they would probably quit because they cant talk sense into ZOS.
2. These changes went live without class rep knowledge. They suggested a problem, and clearly ZOS went off the rails with the solution.
3. Joy is as fed up as we all are. Alcast is as pissed as we all are. He's a class rep too, and you've seen the video he posted?
@KBKB lay off the classreps, their going to meet with ZOS on the 25th and make it very clear this was a bad idea. If they fail, take it as a sign that ZOS isn't willing to lisen to anyone but ZOS and vote with your wallet. Dont take it out on the people trying to help you, for *** sake man.
I'll believe the quit when I see it, Well who else? these are my class reps? I have a sorc he is meant to represent me to ZOS and all I have is a 2 sec cast on my wards and a build I have been tinkering with slightly for 4 years is useless.
Toothless tigers happy to take the role when everyone loves them and they are getting special attention from ZOS (bet that did wonders for their E-egos) Now it's tough or its the actual reason they were placed into the rep system in the first place (to not let howlers like this through the PTS) and they have all gone to water "ZOS doesnt listen Q.Q" Well make them listen you have a darn shot more than any other player who just had their main gutted. Ridiculous!
We have been screaming at ZOS for straight -years-. The class reps are a final in a long list of community outreach by ZOS. They've invited streamers and other players to give them advice and have on more then one occasion ignored it completely!
Your looking for someone to blame. It's not even productive, it's just naked vindictiveness. Stop. Leave. You're not productive to anyone at this point.
@Doctordarkspawn
I think you are struggling with logic here black and white regardless of how it goes/ZOS never listens (one could argue its their job to make them listen).
They are Class reps
They represent the players to ZOS in a hope to help the decision making process
The forums are a light with people QQing, quiting, expressing disbelief and suggesting very nice alternatives
Something has broken down here for the cast time change to be thought as logical
Our Class reps are meant to be the buffer between terrible dev decisions and what actually gets implemented
Therefore they are failing and failing hard
If this was business they would all be up for a sit down and a question on productivity as to what they actually have achieved to date. Its not business though is it its a bunch of E-pen inflated figure heads clearly loving the fanboys and special attention but actually capable of nothing.
Sorry but thats the black and white of it regardless of ZOS not listening/ all running commodore 64s cause they most defs arent playing eso.
Guy jumped in the Sorc thread he was the closest therefore copped it. The silence of our rep has been amazing....Edited by KBKB on September 21, 2018 2:54AM0 -
KBKB✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorry to sound like such a tool, I am waiting to be proven wrong though and am clearly hurting due to this crock of changes inc.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »@Joy_Division is it ok if we throw a hissy fit now yeah? That we waited for the changes and have them be actually worse than anyone imagined?
I´m eagerly awaiting a reply.
@Derra
Yes.
I would ask one other thing though: Instead of throwing a hissy fit filled with unproductive and incoherent anger that is not likely to clearly explain and articulate the very real problems with the proposed changes, take some time to compose a thoughtful and objective post that will spell out precisely why these changes would undermine mag sorcs to such a degree they wouldn't be worth playing.
And I would add, showing them actual combat Vs other players on the PTS will make your argument more than just theoretical. ZOS thinks these changes are playable, show them (aside from just telling them), that they are not.
I very much believe this change should not make it through Live and that's probably the best way to ensure it does not.
If they think that this is going to be fair and balanced combat then they honestly aren't bright enough to bother arguing with. There can be no meeting of the minds with this. No negotiation. No begging for favor. It's THAT bad
Why would you add a cast time to a reactive defense? Why would you make them interruptible when a shield user typically has low health and low mitigation underneath?
Why would you make shields last nine seconds when one shield typically won't survive one GCD?
Why would they make shields critable when they themselves cannot crit? Why should shields benefit from defense values of a light armor class? Do you really hate us that much?
The only answer is to let them do this, and wait for class change tokens on the clown store.
No, I do not hate "us [sorcs]" that much. I know you and other folks are disappointed, but I and the other reps had nothing to do with the shield changes and am not responsible for them.
I will find out in the meeting what their thinking was in our meeting next week. I'm not going to beg. I and the other reps are going to tell ZOS without getting pissed off and indignant why those changes are problematic and should never make it Live. Hopefully since I'm not pissed off and indignant, the reasoning will be clear & objective, and they will recognize the changes were misguided.
If they don't make the change, then I will conclude the Class Rep program has failed in its function.
Waiting for a class change token, while an amusing way to express disappointment, isn;t an answer because if you're this passionate about playing a sorc, then well, it's not like running a stam NB is going to make the game fun for you will it? Especially since it take a couple says to level one up to 50 in any event.
@Joy_Division
Sorry to say mate if that change goes live the Class reps have failed and should resign. They are our only voice to ZOS and they have dramatically failed in there core function. When they took the role they represented the player base/classes and to an extent ZOS as well (as us plebs could never afford the time of ZOS). This will be the worst patch since 1.3 and its going through with the class rep system having little to no effect, It would also be more of a statement if you opted to resign over a such a change.
But seriously all well and good to take the role and the fan fare when everyone loves you and is blowing smoke up your wazoo however they are there to provide class and community feed back to the devs in doing so some absolutely illogical, impracticable and unplayable changes have been let through. Not so easy when everyone is baying for blood because YOU ALL HAVE FAILED IN YOUR RESPECTIVE ROLES. So I ask what is it you're good for?
Aware reps and ZOS have an impending discussion please change my mind,
1. He just said that they would probably quit because they cant talk sense into ZOS.
2. These changes went live without class rep knowledge. They suggested a problem, and clearly ZOS went off the rails with the solution.
3. Joy is as fed up as we all are. Alcast is as pissed as we all are. He's a class rep too, and you've seen the video he posted?
@KBKB lay off the classreps, their going to meet with ZOS on the 25th and make it very clear this was a bad idea. If they fail, take it as a sign that ZOS isn't willing to lisen to anyone but ZOS and vote with your wallet. Dont take it out on the people trying to help you, for *** sake man.
I'll believe the quit when I see it, Well who else? these are my class reps? I have a sorc he is meant to represent me to ZOS and all I have is a 2 sec cast on my wards and a build I have been tinkering with slightly for 4 years is useless.
Toothless tigers happy to take the role when everyone loves them and they are getting special attention from ZOS (bet that did wonders for their E-egos) Now it's tough or its the actual reason they were placed into the rep system in the first place (to not let howlers like this through the PTS) and they have all gone to water "ZOS doesnt listen Q.Q" Well make them listen you have a darn shot more than any other player who just had their main gutted. Ridiculous!
We have been screaming at ZOS for straight -years-. The class reps are a final in a long list of community outreach by ZOS. They've invited streamers and other players to give them advice and have on more then one occasion ignored it completely!
Your looking for someone to blame. It's not even productive, it's just naked vindictiveness. Stop. Leave. You're not productive to anyone at this point.
@Doctordarkspawn
I think you are struggling with logic here black and white regardless of how it goes/ZOS never listens (one could argue its their job to make them listen).
They are Class reps
They represent the players to ZOS in a hope to help the decision making process
The forums are a light with people QQing, quiting, expressing disbelief and suggesting very nice alternatives
Something has broken down here for the cast time change to be thought as logical
Our Class reps are meant to be the buffer between terrible dev decisions and what actually gets implemented
Therefore they are failing and failing hard
If this was business they would all be up for a sit down and a question on productivity as to what they actually have achieved to date. Its not business though is it its a bunch of E-pen inflated figure heads clearly loving the fanboys and special attention but actually capable of nothing.
Sorry but thats the black and white of it regardless of ZOS not listening/ all running commodore 64s cause they most defs arent playing eso.
Guy jumped in the Sorc thread he was the closest therefore copped it. The silence of our rep has been amazing....
They are class reps, and have not yet been given the chance to argue the changes. Like I've told you. They dont have a straight line to zos, they have a pre-arranged meeting on the 25th that is going to be their time to air grievences.
As for 'supposed to be our buffer', again, are you deaf? THEY DONT SEE THE CHANGES BEFORE THEY HIT PTS, they were as blindsided as the rest of us and you need to learn that and stop blaming them FOR NOT BEING OMNISCIENT! ENOUGH! STOP LASHING OUT AT THE PEOPLE IN THE BEST POSITION TO HELP YOU! JUST STOP! STOP JUSTIFYING IT! STOP!
You're not reasonable, you didn't reason yourself into the position, and you cant be reasoned out of it. And that's the black and white of it. You're going to be ignored because people like you single-handedly justify these nerfs by being this downright entitled.3 -
KBKB✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Doctordarkspawn
Are you mates with all the reps? or think you are? that's the vibe I'm getting or you haven't worked full time because you sound like you don't agree with consequences or support lack there of through not completing your role. Regardless how did it get to this point where these nerfs (overwhelmingly for sorc and LA) are pushing through with dmg buffs to NB going through? Who gave them this terrible info in the first place and no real solutions to work with so they gave it to the uni kid who has never played ESO to balance. I'm guessing the reps cause i know 99% of the community has no conduit into ZOS.0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭@Doctordarkspawn
Are you mates with all the reps? or think you are? that's the vibe I'm getting or you haven't worked full time because you sound like you don't agree with consequences or support lack there of through not completing your role. Regardless how did it get to this point where these nerfs (overwhelmingly for sorc and LA) are pushing through with dmg buffs to NB going through? Who gave them this terrible info in the first place and no real solutions to work with so they gave it to the uni kid who has never played ESO to balance. I'm guessing the reps cause i know 99% of the community has no conduit into ZOS.
You are assuming that "class reps" are more than a public/customer relations marketing strategy to make the public believe their opinions matter.
But fyi stamblade is totally more fun than a magsorc. I started this game with sorc, what a mistake that was. Slow, clunky... Always out of magicka = boring.Edited by LittlePinkDot on September 21, 2018 4:25AM2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Doctordarkspawn
Are you mates with all the reps? or think you are? that's the vibe I'm getting or you haven't worked full time because you sound like you don't agree with consequences or support lack there of through not completing your role. Regardless how did it get to this point where these nerfs (overwhelmingly for sorc and LA) are pushing through with dmg buffs to NB going through? Who gave them this terrible info in the first place and no real solutions to work with so they gave it to the uni kid who has never played ESO to balance. I'm guessing the reps cause i know 99% of the community has no conduit into ZOS.
No, he's just someone who has paid attention.
You don't have a clue if you can;t figure out it was the devs who came up with the idea to put the cast-time on the shields shields. One of them even posted herehttps://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5469409/#Comment_5469409, with their reasoning. That;s a pretty hard stance with conviction. So why don;t you take your internet tough guy routine and direct it there?Edited by Joy_Division on September 21, 2018 6:02AM4 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭stop whining all of u sorcs. When we came to complain about sorcs all of u jumped "LeaRn tO pLay Git gUd" and to take shield breaker or something. For all of us who didn't use either shields or evasion, this looks like a good balancing. Stop looking from the perspective of ur own class and look at the gameplay overall. There's been reasons for this change to happen, try to see the reason and not be carried by ur class anymore. Btw, not only sorc is affected. Magnbs also use absorb shields, light armor magplars also.
Stop whining as if PvP is all that matters. I never said any of those things, nor even thought them, because I don't play PvP.
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