PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Templar

Minno · September 2018

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Haven't test yet if burning light cooldown is separate for each target.

Quick test:

Lined up 5 dummies and spammed PS for 25 seconds got 37 Burning Light procs
1 dummy spamming PS for 25 seconds got 19 procs.

We would expect to roughly 5x the single dummy parse, but only see around double. This is likely because the 5 dummies saturate the .5 second cooldown much better than just 1 does.

In short, no it doesn't proc per opponent. Was there a reason you thought it would?

Stealth buffs/changes. They have been doing lately the past few patches (daedric trickery cooldown changes for example but not listing it on patch notes.)

danno8 · September 2018

Minno wrote: »

empowering sweeps tooltip for me was 10k fully buffed. Either choose that with major protection for 6 seconds or run dawnbreaker for 2-3k more dmg with stun. I know magplar needed a burst ultimate so the cresant sweep changed needed to happen, but light armor + empowering looks promising due to the cheap 75 ultimate cost and you get a sustain boost, extra mag for sorcery, snare reduction/sprint, and the penetration + crit chance offers a decent offensive buff for you to select defensive options. Does require an offensive set or 2 to compensate for the burst loss

If the Penetration scaling doesn't get fixed then Empowering is nearly a no brainer. DBoS does cost more, but it is way easier to land, has the stun when you need it, and that stun means for sure at least 1 tick of the DoT component is going to hit which brings the damage to the same as Crescent Sweeps.

I would bet that Empowering is still scaling on Spell Pen also which makes it an even easier choice.

Minno wrote: »

Stealth buffs/changes. They have been doing lately the past few patches (daedric trickery cooldown changes for example but not listing it on patch notes.)

Ah, one can dream eh? I would love to see it stealth changed to affect all Templar skills

Minno · September 2018

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

empowering sweeps tooltip for me was 10k fully buffed. Either choose that with major protection for 6 seconds or run dawnbreaker for 2-3k more dmg with stun. I know magplar needed a burst ultimate so the cresant sweep changed needed to happen, but light armor + empowering looks promising due to the cheap 75 ultimate cost and you get a sustain boost, extra mag for sorcery, snare reduction/sprint, and the penetration + crit chance offers a decent offensive buff for you to select defensive options. Does require an offensive set or 2 to compensate for the burst loss

If the Penetration scaling doesn't get fixed then Empowering is nearly a no brainer. DBoS does cost more, but it is way easier to land, has the stun when you need it, and that stun means for sure at least 1 tick of the DoT component is going to hit which brings the damage to the same as Crescent Sweeps.

I would bet that Empowering is still scaling on Spell Pen also which makes it an even easier choice.

Minno wrote: »

Stealth buffs/changes. They have been doing lately the past few patches (daedric trickery cooldown changes for example but not listing it on patch notes.)

Ah, one can dream eh? I would love to see it stealth changed to affect all Templar skills

I havent test the scaling sadly. Even if it doesnt, on a light armor running unstable core with an offense monster set, you might not need the burst from cresant sweep anyway but the major protection plus quick burst will be enough to offset your lack of defenses.

Need to test in duels, but I tihnk LA magplar not running LA shields got a tiny buff.

JimmyJuJu · September 2018

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I have never tried a Templar, so I dont understand all this good feedback on this thread. All ive heard before is how it has bad sustain and poor mobility.

Should I make a stamplar or a mageplar? And why?

Why not make both? Personally, I think stamplar is receiving more love for Murkmire, so start there.

If you roll a Dunmer stamplar, you can pretty easily re-roll a magplar on the same toon. You lose some max stats vs other classes (like Orc or Redguard for stam and Altmer for mag) but it gives you some flexibility either way.

They’d be better off running argonian to switch between stam and mag.

Argonian is a solid choice. I mean, that tail. Amirite?

Guess it depends if you want a slightly more defensive or offensive posture. My pick is Dunmer for a more flexible offensive posture. But Argonian is the better choice for a more flexible defensive posture. IMO anyway.

But that said, the optimal route is 2 purpose-built toons. FWIW, my magplar is a Dunmer (formerly Breton) and my stamplar is Imperial.

JimmyJuJu · September 2018

Minno wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

empowering sweeps tooltip for me was 10k fully buffed. Either choose that with major protection for 6 seconds or run dawnbreaker for 2-3k more dmg with stun. I know magplar needed a burst ultimate so the cresant sweep changed needed to happen, but light armor + empowering looks promising due to the cheap 75 ultimate cost and you get a sustain boost, extra mag for sorcery, snare reduction/sprint, and the penetration + crit chance offers a decent offensive buff for you to select defensive options. Does require an offensive set or 2 to compensate for the burst loss

If the Penetration scaling doesn't get fixed then Empowering is nearly a no brainer. DBoS does cost more, but it is way easier to land, has the stun when you need it, and that stun means for sure at least 1 tick of the DoT component is going to hit which brings the damage to the same as Crescent Sweeps.

I would bet that Empowering is still scaling on Spell Pen also which makes it an even easier choice.

Minno wrote: »

Stealth buffs/changes. They have been doing lately the past few patches (daedric trickery cooldown changes for example but not listing it on patch notes.)

Ah, one can dream eh? I would love to see it stealth changed to affect all Templar skills

I havent test the scaling sadly. Even if it doesnt, on a light armor running unstable core with an offense monster set, you might not need the burst from cresant sweep anyway but the major protection plus quick burst will be enough to offset your lack of defenses.

Need to test in duels, but I tihnk LA magplar not running LA shields got a tiny buff.

There is one slight advantage Sweep has over Dawnbreaker is that it's (theoretically) a radial skill - thus the name. Whereas Dawnbreaker is a cone.

How many times have you hit Dawnbraker at the exact moment someone rolled away or you got rooted in the wrong orientation? It's happened to me at least once

The radius is smaller (6m) vs. DB (10m) but the Templar play style is mainly melee/brawler thanks to sweeps/jabs so you are already all up in their business anyway. So, I am definitely going to try out the changes. All that said, I run Flawless DB for that extra weapon damage (because I actually enjoy pve, too...GASP) and that might be hard to part with.

Minno · September 2018

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

empowering sweeps tooltip for me was 10k fully buffed. Either choose that with major protection for 6 seconds or run dawnbreaker for 2-3k more dmg with stun. I know magplar needed a burst ultimate so the cresant sweep changed needed to happen, but light armor + empowering looks promising due to the cheap 75 ultimate cost and you get a sustain boost, extra mag for sorcery, snare reduction/sprint, and the penetration + crit chance offers a decent offensive buff for you to select defensive options. Does require an offensive set or 2 to compensate for the burst loss

If the Penetration scaling doesn't get fixed then Empowering is nearly a no brainer. DBoS does cost more, but it is way easier to land, has the stun when you need it, and that stun means for sure at least 1 tick of the DoT component is going to hit which brings the damage to the same as Crescent Sweeps.

I would bet that Empowering is still scaling on Spell Pen also which makes it an even easier choice.

Minno wrote: »

Stealth buffs/changes. They have been doing lately the past few patches (daedric trickery cooldown changes for example but not listing it on patch notes.)

Ah, one can dream eh? I would love to see it stealth changed to affect all Templar skills

I havent test the scaling sadly. Even if it doesnt, on a light armor running unstable core with an offense monster set, you might not need the burst from cresant sweep anyway but the major protection plus quick burst will be enough to offset your lack of defenses.

Need to test in duels, but I tihnk LA magplar not running LA shields got a tiny buff.

There is one slight advantage Sweep has over Dawnbreaker is that it's (theoretically) a radial skill - thus the name. Whereas Dawnbreaker is a cone.

How many times have you hit Dawnbraker at the exact moment someone rolled away or you got rooted in the wrong orientation? It's happened to me at least once

The radius is smaller (6m) vs. DB (10m) but the Templar play style is mainly melee/brawler thanks to sweeps/jabs so you are already all up in their business anyway. So, I am definitely going to try out the changes. All that said, I run Flawless DB for that extra weapon damage (because I actually enjoy pve, too...GASP) and that might be hard to part with.

both have clear strengths/weaknesses for sure. It will dependant on how you like to play in my opinion (except the weird hitbox issues crescent sweeps still has).

GallantGuardian · September 2018

Minno wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

empowering sweeps tooltip for me was 10k fully buffed. Either choose that with major protection for 6 seconds or run dawnbreaker for 2-3k more dmg with stun. I know magplar needed a burst ultimate so the cresant sweep changed needed to happen, but light armor + empowering looks promising due to the cheap 75 ultimate cost and you get a sustain boost, extra mag for sorcery, snare reduction/sprint, and the penetration + crit chance offers a decent offensive buff for you to select defensive options. Does require an offensive set or 2 to compensate for the burst loss

If the Penetration scaling doesn't get fixed then Empowering is nearly a no brainer. DBoS does cost more, but it is way easier to land, has the stun when you need it, and that stun means for sure at least 1 tick of the DoT component is going to hit which brings the damage to the same as Crescent Sweeps.

I would bet that Empowering is still scaling on Spell Pen also which makes it an even easier choice.

Minno wrote: »

Stealth buffs/changes. They have been doing lately the past few patches (daedric trickery cooldown changes for example but not listing it on patch notes.)

Ah, one can dream eh? I would love to see it stealth changed to affect all Templar skills

I havent test the scaling sadly. Even if it doesnt, on a light armor running unstable core with an offense monster set, you might not need the burst from cresant sweep anyway but the major protection plus quick burst will be enough to offset your lack of defenses.

Need to test in duels, but I tihnk LA magplar not running LA shields got a tiny buff.

There is one slight advantage Sweep has over Dawnbreaker is that it's (theoretically) a radial skill - thus the name. Whereas Dawnbreaker is a cone.

How many times have you hit Dawnbraker at the exact moment someone rolled away or you got rooted in the wrong orientation? It's happened to me at least once

The radius is smaller (6m) vs. DB (10m) but the Templar play style is mainly melee/brawler thanks to sweeps/jabs so you are already all up in their business anyway. So, I am definitely going to try out the changes. All that said, I run Flawless DB for that extra weapon damage (because I actually enjoy pve, too...GASP) and that might be hard to part with.

both have clear strengths/weaknesses for sure. It will dependant on how you like to play in my opinion (except the weird hitbox issues crescent sweeps still has).

Have you tested the new restoring focus? If not can you tell me if it feels like its doing anything ? I remember when i used to be magika based on my tank channeled focus really did help a lot with magika regen so im hoping it works similarly

Minno · September 2018

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

empowering sweeps tooltip for me was 10k fully buffed. Either choose that with major protection for 6 seconds or run dawnbreaker for 2-3k more dmg with stun. I know magplar needed a burst ultimate so the cresant sweep changed needed to happen, but light armor + empowering looks promising due to the cheap 75 ultimate cost and you get a sustain boost, extra mag for sorcery, snare reduction/sprint, and the penetration + crit chance offers a decent offensive buff for you to select defensive options. Does require an offensive set or 2 to compensate for the burst loss

If the Penetration scaling doesn't get fixed then Empowering is nearly a no brainer. DBoS does cost more, but it is way easier to land, has the stun when you need it, and that stun means for sure at least 1 tick of the DoT component is going to hit which brings the damage to the same as Crescent Sweeps.

I would bet that Empowering is still scaling on Spell Pen also which makes it an even easier choice.

Minno wrote: »

Stealth buffs/changes. They have been doing lately the past few patches (daedric trickery cooldown changes for example but not listing it on patch notes.)

Ah, one can dream eh? I would love to see it stealth changed to affect all Templar skills

I havent test the scaling sadly. Even if it doesnt, on a light armor running unstable core with an offense monster set, you might not need the burst from cresant sweep anyway but the major protection plus quick burst will be enough to offset your lack of defenses.

Need to test in duels, but I tihnk LA magplar not running LA shields got a tiny buff.

There is one slight advantage Sweep has over Dawnbreaker is that it's (theoretically) a radial skill - thus the name. Whereas Dawnbreaker is a cone.

How many times have you hit Dawnbraker at the exact moment someone rolled away or you got rooted in the wrong orientation? It's happened to me at least once

The radius is smaller (6m) vs. DB (10m) but the Templar play style is mainly melee/brawler thanks to sweeps/jabs so you are already all up in their business anyway. So, I am definitely going to try out the changes. All that said, I run Flawless DB for that extra weapon damage (because I actually enjoy pve, too...GASP) and that might be hard to part with.

both have clear strengths/weaknesses for sure. It will dependant on how you like to play in my opinion (except the weird hitbox issues crescent sweeps still has).

Have you tested the new restoring focus? If not can you tell me if it feels like its doing anything ? I remember when i used to be magika based on my tank channeled focus really did help a lot with magika regen so im hoping it works similarly

exactly like it does for channeled focus, except 900 stamina instead of 1600 stamina for mag builds. I tested with blocking and basically had no problems sustaining block/sprint. But this was tested against a bear in cyro lol.

GallantGuardian · September 2018

NobleX35 wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.

This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.

Please tell me how juicy it is when you're main tanking in vAS.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.

Sun Shield:
I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.

Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill is useless. There is literally 0 reason to even morph it. In fact your group will be better off if you don't.

Useless in what pve?.

Useless anywhere. If stuff is dying all around you, you don't really need it to begin with. And when you do need it, there is nothing to repent. That's the definition of a useless skill and a wasted skill slot.

You probably don’t pvp. I don’t know how many times this skill has saved me when I was starving for resources because multiple people was beating on me. Or getting a well timed repent in a bgs match.

The problem with repent was the fact it was stamplars only sustain option and as a result many relied on using bone pirate. Plus zos made it so only one stamplar can repent. Now stamplars have passive regen and still can make use of repentance.

Stamplars that play small scale just got a lot better.

You're right, I don't PvP. I tank. Now that Templars have a passive regen skill, repentance may as well be completely redesigned to be something actually useful in more than mass PvP. I wouldn't even use it if it returned 20k stamina for each corpse, because in situations when I need it the most there aren't any corpses around.

So you play one specific role and play one specific type of gameplay - tanking in pve dungeons. Just because you think the skill is useless for your niche playstyle (which is still foolish, because 18k free stam is amazing and most bosses have adds that you can repent during the fight) doesnt mean the skill is useless. If you dont want to use it...then don’t, but that doesn’t mean its useless.

A lot of bosses in trials do not have adds dying next to the main tank. If you don't want me to turn the boss around to hit you with a cleave in your face, you won't be telling me how awesome repentance is, because that's what I would have to do to reach the corpses for those 18k stam you talk about. I bet you also wouldn't particularly like it if I dragged the boss around to grab that corpse on the other side of the room just because I need stamina. The only one being foolish is you by suggesting that this skill isn't poorly designed.

And this skill is useless in more than PvE tanking, it's useless basically anywhere where you aren't being swarmed by a crowd of weak enemies. Regardless of your role, that's a very niche use for the skill. And PvE tanking is not "niche", it's an important role in all end game content.

And yeah, I don't use it, I don't even have that skill morphed, because regardless of the morph it's a waste of a skill point. And I wouldn't use it as a DD either for the same reason. You can't argue about play style, because it's useless regardless of your playstyle, it's usefulness depends on the encounter, and not even what encounter, but also how it's handled by you and your group, and you can hardly tell your group to adjust their strategy to help you with your repentance. And you can't tell a corpse to not despawn until you actually need extra stam either, so strategic usage that would make it at least somewhat worthwhile is also not possible.

Not going to keep arguing with you because you clearly just don't get it. I've already given you plenty of examples of where the skill is useful, and I even gave you a few examples of where the skill's utility declines (certain trial's bosses). The problem is that your stuck with your niche trial's tank mentality and fail to realize that there are more aspects to the game than just tanking trials bosses. Just because you think it's useless does not mean that it is.

As a templar tank i have to agree with the other guy there are a lot of bosses where repentance is absolutely worthless as of right now and its really hard to build up your stamina if you arent using meditation... since you basically have to be opened up for attacks inorder to build your stam back up and not everyone in the game is running shards or the orbs trust me ...ive been here ...they really needed a better way for templars to be ablet o get stam sustain then repent... so i see where he is coming from

Now that restoring focus will provide stamina back... i feel like it will be a little easier and repentance will just be extra during fights that do have adds

I undestand you dont agree with him but he does have a valid point since its not just trial bosses its also dungeon bosses an ability that gives you sustain should never be worthless in any instance it should always be useful no matter what in my opinion since that will be what keeps you moving on ....

Minno wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.

This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.

Please tell me how juicy it is when you're main tanking in vAS.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.

Sun Shield:
I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.

Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill is useless. There is literally 0 reason to even morph it. In fact your group will be better off if you don't.

Useless in what pve?.

Useless anywhere. If stuff is dying all around you, you don't really need it to begin with. And when you do need it, there is nothing to repent. That's the definition of a useless skill and a wasted skill slot.

You probably don’t pvp. I don’t know how many times this skill has saved me when I was starving for resources because multiple people was beating on me. Or getting a well timed repent in a bgs match.

The problem with repent was the fact it was stamplars only sustain option and as a result many relied on using bone pirate. Plus zos made it so only one stamplar can repent. Now stamplars have passive regen and still can make use of repentance.

Stamplars that play small scale just got a lot better.

You're right, I don't PvP. I tank. Now that Templars have a passive regen skill, repentance may as well be completely redesigned to be something actually useful in more than mass PvP. I wouldn't even use it if it returned 20k stamina for each corpse, because in situations when I need it the most there aren't any corpses around.

So you play one specific role and play one specific type of gameplay - tanking in pve dungeons. Just because you think the skill is useless for your niche playstyle (which is still foolish, because 18k free stam is amazing and most bosses have adds that you can repent during the fight) doesnt mean the skill is useless. If you dont want to use it...then don’t, but that doesn’t mean its useless.

A lot of bosses in trials do not have adds dying next to the main tank. If you don't want me to turn the boss around to hit you with a cleave in your face, you won't be telling me how awesome repentance is, because that's what I would have to do to reach the corpses for those 18k stam you talk about. I bet you also wouldn't particularly like it if I dragged the boss around to grab that corpse on the other side of the room just because I need stamina. The only one being foolish is you by suggesting that this skill isn't poorly designed.

And this skill is useless in more than PvE tanking, it's useless basically anywhere where you aren't being swarmed by a crowd of weak enemies. Regardless of your role, that's a very niche use for the skill. And PvE tanking is not "niche", it's an important role in all end game content.

And yeah, I don't use it, I don't even have that skill morphed, because regardless of the morph it's a waste of a skill point. And I wouldn't use it as a DD either for the same reason. You can't argue about play style, because it's useless regardless of your playstyle, it's usefulness depends on the encounter, and not even what encounter, but also how it's handled by you and your group, and you can hardly tell your group to adjust their strategy to help you with your repentance. And you can't tell a corpse to not despawn until you actually need extra stam either, so strategic usage that would make it at least somewhat worthwhile is also not possible.

Not going to keep arguing with you because you clearly just don't get it. I've already given you plenty of examples of where the skill is useful, and I even gave you a few examples of where the skill's utility declines (certain trial's bosses). The problem is that your stuck with your niche trial's tank mentality and fail to realize that there are more aspects to the game than just tanking trials bosses. Just because you think it's useless does not mean that it is.

I mean if that is what he enjoys and he finds that the repentance is useless to him, that is fine feedback.
Though the morph is still mostly PVP oriented and I think thats fine too.

They need to adjust radiant aura to maybe give tanks/pvp templars interesting yet unique utility, and most feel that is the suggested feedback too.

I think ill be using the magika steal aura at this point if the stamina given back by restoring focus is enough to sustain me as a tank cause i also rather have a magika regen on my bar as well...

however i do wish they’d give us however since they are taking away minor vitality and minor protection from rune focus id like to see them add minor vitality into a passive in the healing tree passives

But id like one of two things done...

So lets say they add minor vitality to the healing passives and we know spear wall is getting protection...

Id either like

1.) the passives to be active while slotting any ability from those trees into your tray..

2.) allow those passives to have an uptime similar to what restoring focus gave us ..after you use one of the abilities

So lets say my sun shield is used id like minor protection to last as long as it did when id cast it and stand in the circle of restoring focus... and lets say i cast restoring aura... id like the same to be done with minor vitality ...

I dont think we should have to lose that because we are gaining sustain

GallantGuardian · September 2018

Lastly id really love zos to finally give us a real multi target root... right now im using time stop and as much as i love it i want an instant cast similar to talons or insert other class roots that work .....

I really wish they’d bring blinding flashes back id really like it to be the solar barrage morph.... or if nothing when casting solar barrage just make it a root to all enemies around you in a specific amount of meters... and have it last 3 seconds...

JimmyJuJu · September 2018

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Lastly id really love zos to finally give us a real multi target root... right now im using time stop and as much as i love it i want an instant cast similar to talons or insert other class roots that work .....

I really wish they’d bring blinding flashes back id really like it to be the solar barrage morph.... or if nothing when casting solar barrage just make it a root to all enemies around you in a specific amount of meters... and have it last 3 seconds...

Hmm, interesting. What about a knock-down effect from solar barrage? Kind of like a shockwave emanating from your position? I'd be ok with even a small knock-down like 2s. Then all the usual CC immunity and cooldowns apply.

I like this idea. But...a pulsating, fire-and-forget, medium-damage, melee-range, AoE CC. Hey look, I see pigs...with wings...and they fly!!

Drdeath20 · September 2018

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I have never tried a Templar, so I dont understand all this good feedback on this thread. All ive heard before is how it has bad sustain and poor mobility.

Should I make a stamplar or a mageplar? And why?

They didnt really fix anything great for PVP, with all changes considered, but they seemingly boosted their damage and sustainablity. damage boosts to puncturing strikes and changes to repentance/restoring-channeled focus for sustain. You will see more templar damage dealers next patch.

JimmyJuJu · September 2018

Drdeath20 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I have never tried a Templar, so I dont understand all this good feedback on this thread. All ive heard before is how it has bad sustain and poor mobility.

Should I make a stamplar or a mageplar? And why?

They didnt really fix anything great for PVP, with all changes considered, but they seemingly boosted their damage and sustainablity. damage boosts to puncturing strikes and changes to repentance/restoring-channeled focus for sustain. You will see more templar damage dealers next patch.

I do like the knock-down vs. knock-back change on the javelin. I never could figure out why you would have a knock-back CC on a melee brawler. On the magplar, maybe but certainly not the stamplar.

I wanna be all up in the bidness of my opponent. This is why I love the Templar so much. Jab to the head!

Cinbri · September 2018

Cant be said much regarding changes coz they are well-thought and good, almost perfect I would say. Still need a bit of love but I think zos now must focus on fixing bugs and adding other changes.

1. Honor the Dead received QoL improvement that not listed in patchnotes - its mana restore proc now have visual effect of flowing essence(that leaves fancy trail when you move

):

Very appreciated addition.

2. Restoring Focus - I agree it could get changed cost to mana one. In this role it will serve as role of viable stamina restore skill(finally!) for magplars and for stamplars it would remain as cheap magicka dump skill. It is far easier for stamplar tank to waste one tick of mana restore to activate skill than for magplar tank to activate much needed stamina to gain stamina. Regarding resources restore - compare it to buffed Netch of wardens: 6480/27sec = 240 per/sec, i.e. it equalized with templar sustain skill, but this one is free while templar one is not. Taking same time but in heavy armor with Restoring Spirit and no other reduce stam cost skills it cost 884stam. Its 884 cost cost is equal to loose of 4sec of skill, pushing it back into 16sec buff, while count it as 27sec as Netch is pushing it into loose of 8sec, while for magicka it is ok coz several additional reliable sources of mana restore in class kit, stamina builds lack of such additional stamina sustain beside unreliable Repentance, thats why stamina builds and tanks overall needs every tick of stamina.

3. Radial Sweep change is good but it have couple serious issues too:
A. As other reported morphs use wrong modifiers of penetration:
Crescent Sweep which is now magicka ultimate use physical pen and ignore magickal pen:
Damage with zero penetrations:

damage with mag penetration CP(same damage if use Drain):

damage with zero penetration:

damage with physical penetration CP:

Empowering Sweep which is now stamina ultimate still use magickal pen and ignore physical pen.:
damage with zero penetrations:

damage with magickal pen CP:

damage with physical pen CP:

B. And it bug that reported long ago - bugged hitbox, still not fixed, making this ult simply terrible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BKZYSxC7RA
^^As you can see my initial bugged hit didnt do damage, but dot used from same distance worked ok. You cant even reliably hit static target in 2m near.

4. Puncturing Strikes - changed back to original mechanic of follow camera pov instead of character pov. If this wont help to land strikes, idk what can be done without changing its core mechanic.
A. As some mentioned Evasion buff now affect it, and I agree that its damage could be refactored to count as single target damage. Evasion change might be good but unlike other classes with theme of aoe damage (warden, dk) templar class have spammable ability which is also aoe, making one buff to completely counter class main source of damage.
B. Took loooooooooong time but I managed to restore original data of my old thread about Jabs and Red CP calculations that was in Dragonbones Update:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/396641/puncturing-strikes-and-red-cp-in-u17/p1

So, continuation of PTS thread.
Red CP in U17 reduce damage of Strikes more than previously.
From PTS:

Cinbri wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

So:
1. Jabs and its 140% damage:

Tried closest to 1000 damage. As you can see its something like 140.XX%. So, tooltip state right amount of damage.

2. About actual damage to closest target:

It does deal same amount of damage as tooltip state. So, 140% seems works properly.

3. About raw damage: Live/PTS
a. Initial damage stay the same(not sure why 1 less damage), since nothing was changed here:

b. As Joy said minor berserk is additive, and nothing changed here too, damage is same:

c. But as first patchnotes said damage taken, like minor vulnerability, is no longer additive, and here is buff changes as on live it is suffer from being additive and as result less than 8%, but on pts it is boosting flat 8% damage increase that don't losing its % when combined with berserk:
without and with Slimecraw' berserk while enemy vulnerable:

In theory it look like it work as it intended, but NO, tested closest damage in pvp in exactly same gear/CP/skillbar against opponent with exact same gear/CP/skillbar and result is sad:

Whatever changed with calculation of CP damage taken it ended in monstrous damage nerf for pvp.
Will test tomorrow with no-cp rule and fully naked to decrease chance of error, maybe it fault of pvp debuff, might be my error but i rechecked 3 times as this damage nerf occured only in pvp.

So, here is Part 2:

Did further researches and can confirm Elemental Defender and Thickskinned incorrectly working with only Puncturing Sweeps (Apparently as Hardy for Biting Jabs)

Short results:
Live/PTS
1. 10 points into Thickskinned:

already 8 less damage difference on pts. 13crit.

2. 10 points into Elemental Defender:

already 4 less damage difference on pts. 6crit.

3. 10 points into Ele Def+10 Thickskinned:

already 10 less damage difference on pts. 16crit.
______________________________________

I dont have time to compile and edit 20+ screenshots so here is my raw notes indicating that damage difference occure only for Jabs and only with Red CP costellation:

P.S.: everything tested full-naked, so no mistake on my part.
P.S.S.: make me happy to be no-CPer

Checking Strikes damage pre-Update / right after Update:

And the more enemy stack in elemental/physic protection + dot protections CPs and the more damage-oriented build Templar use - the higher damage difference penalty.

We need any clarification regarding it

I hope @Checkmath and @Joy_Division will bring this to attention of zos again. Because after buff to its core damage I wont be able anymore to test it. Given how high damage you can build nowdays - jabs receiving huge damage punishment coz this situation.

5. Radiant Destruction - change is nice but it still lack of full purpose of be execute. And core problem is empty channel in the beginning of skill, it should be removed just like it was removed from Soul Assault. This empty channel doesn't interact with dodge-roll opponents who gona be executed in dodge-roll, but every other opponent is counter this ability. In a battles with burst shields/heals when target can get from execute range hp to full hp, having delay on execute making it unworthy, also coz this delay this execute can be countered even before it start to deal damage by cleanse/bashed:

Also old problem of skill attach to target that died after skill activated but before 1st tick started to tick that. That forcing manually cancel skill that in speedy battle is frustrating:

Main problems are with Radial Sweep and Jabs should be addressed first to make those skills actually working.

Other feedback:

1. Change of Restoring Focus removed minor protection and minor vitality buffs from those templars that that focus on tankiness. Protection now gained through passive which is great but still there is loss of vitality buff. Here some ideas:
A. Removal of vitality affected stampalrs higher than magplars; Mending passive only affect class healings but stamplars barely have its healing from class skills beside cleansing ritual so it is possible to change Mending to affect all healings. It ordinary healing boost will be lower than 8% of vitality but at highest spike it will be higher - 12%.
B. Make it just like changed source of protection passive - switch Ritualist passive with Restoring Spirit passive, so Restoring Spirit will be in tree of Restoring Light; while change Ritualist passive into granting minor vitality for 3sec after activating offensive Dawn Wrath skills.
C. Keep Ritualist passive in its tree but change it to grant minor vitality for 3sec upon activating Restoring Light skills, i.e. when use defensive class skills.
^^In first scenario it will affect only stampalrs, in 2nd and 3rd will affect stamplars and magplars.

2. Dark Flare - given existence of Evasion buff that will decrease templar damage, blackrose restostaff and that next update healing will be more meta - I suggest to decrease its damage and remove cast time making it as instant cast range ability with major defile. An alternative to Sun Light skill. SL utility of being range skill with snare,buff,dot, while DF would be range skill with boost to light attacks and major debuff. It will also make it inline with other morph - Barrage, which is instant-cast now. It will be comparable to warden Corrupted Field than - they cost same. CF is uncleansable major defile that still apply for several sec after target leave area, allowing to have almost 100% uptime on enemy, it has synergy and delay heal. Dark Flare would be single target damage instead of aoe delay heal, 1 empower tick instead of synergy and dodgeable major defile that can be also cleansed. = Similar utility.
Also de-facto 1 sec cast time making overall duration of debuuf as 1 sec less, coz to apply debuff before previous one ended you have to use it for 1sec earlier.

3. Templar Charge beside being weak coz it huge minimal range distance limit also have several serious problems that as result wont make skill reliable even after change on minimal range:
A. It simply not connect with high mobile targets that nowdays is literally everywhere with major speed buff and swift jewelry. Also it still have issue with skill activating but refuse to launch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSt1jx5FGSw

B. Lately, everytime I tried this skill I noticed very oftenly problem when spam it on targets that using los causing skill to lock out your character and root him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlwAo26q1Bs
^^AS you can see skillbar disabled and even roll-dodge not working (yet draining stamina pool on it), also use potion not help at all. Apaprently it somehow bugged with LoS check and force your char to wait till you unbug, which can result in death.

C. Explosive Charge old bug of not working against invisibility still here. Apparently it also somehow bugging coz checks in the end of skill duration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtRi8nKm1Y
^^ It randomly working, without nor deal damage nor reveal targets in its aoe range.

3. Burning Light - I still believe it should be like Implosion - unblockable. Templar don't have unblockable hard stun, making tanks much easier to counter templar damage. Making it unblockable would help a lot.

4. Backlash - in its current form it have several problems (beside that it still not function as proper direct damage ability and not proc affiliated sets). As other said it sometimes not explode.
But there is also another problem with its % release incorrectly calculating:
A. I pretty sure other noticed weird damage too: when damage released remained same even if higher damage was dealt in storing time. Like if it have threshold of damage that should be passed for next few % to be added in final explosion.
My video record lost somewhere

B. Its % can bypass its max store damage. Like on video - 26536 damage dealt while max stored damage limit is 24976:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_hyvXWoxmQ

5. Rite of Passage - and again this ultimate working on simply outdated mechanics. Over last years zos changed ultimates to "feel" like ultimates, i.e. strong thing with such parameters as being unreflectable like Meteor or working in high mobile meta like buff to Shifting Standart for example. But old mechanics still core function of RoP sadly. Or another channel, Soul Assault - it channel ultimate and to feel it as channel its majority of damage was made uncounterable by cloak/purge and ult started to provide CC immunity coz you not suppose to interrupt it.
And here is RoP - it not work in high mobile battles coz you rooted to 1 place. As tooltip says you immune to CC but in return can't move. But those who played for long remember that CC immunity was added because this ultimate channel was interruptable by bash/deep breath/etc., i.e. entire ultimate was countered by right mouse button. As result we got immunity to it but it also validated being rooted to one place. This validation of use channel but be rooted no longer works nowdays coz ultimate channel per se should not be countered by skill according to modern mechanic and PvE mechanics that force you to cancel ultimate because situation when right where you stay and start channel it boss will drop one-shotting aoe..
So, this old ult must be updated its core mechanic to function like other ultimates!
A. Keep it as channel but as ultimate channel it should not be countered by right mouse - remove being rooted but retain CC immunity that provide immunity to interrupts. With such change it will properly work in high mobile battles and not hurt templar mobility. Here is representation how it should look on practice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPCu2PI-ZUM
^^Looks pretty good.
B. Remove it being channel and remove cc immunity and being rooted - i.e. exact like what was done regarding Healing Ritual. They both share same animation and now HR use its part as instant cast, same could be done regarding ult. No longer channel -> no longer need of cc immunity -> no longer need of root -> templar can actually participate in combat while ult is working.
^^ Once again - it updating this ultimate to game mechanics.

@ZOS_Wrobel

Minno · September 2018

@Cinbri great feedback!

Adding to your jabs targeting, here's me hitting it in some cyro bugs:

https://youtu.be/Jzlik0Or87E

Towards the end you see some weird hits that i thought could never happen.

Elsterchen · September 2018

@Cinbri ty for all that testing!

Concerning restoring focus, I really like the change. Yes, loosing major vitallity is one thing, but the extra stam regen (for 20s duration) means stamina regeneration while blocking for stamplar tanks and a cheap and worthy defence ability that additionally offers sustain for stamplar DDs.

With the way the changes affect jabs in PVP I would rather build around jabs... one way to do this is offered by the changes to restoring focus: now I have the option to use my magica pool for something else then survivability (and with the changes: sustain). (i.e. contrary to what some stamplars think - I am NOT missing a magica dump due to this ability now costing stamina, but enjoy the option to add another magica costing buff/debuff to my rota).

The skill costs less then 1k stamina (I didn't check base cost, as i play stamina in medium and enjoy cost reduction by design) and restores 240 stam (again, I don#t know base-regen and my choice of armor and race may affect this number) over 20s -> for a stamplar thats a huge amount of stamina returned (given we had Nothing before).

Do you, by any chance, have the appropiate numbers for magplars?

I assume sustain should be equally usefull for magplars (with costs beeing still in the "very cheap" departement (below 1k) ... Imo the choice presented by rune focus is: Do i want magica sustain or stamina sustain? And I feel its perfectly fine that gaining magica sustain costs magica and gaining stamina sustain costs stamina, both cannot be accuired anyways and the changes create an equally challenging choice for everyone : Do I use my main ressource pool to sustain my main ressource ... or do I use my minor ressource pool to sustain my minor ressource.

I feel this is a fair choice for every templar, and I think the "correct" answer depends on the build, playstile and content the templar is paticipating in rather then the role or wether mag or stam.

FlamingBeard · September 2018

Cinbri wrote: »

3. Radial Sweep change is good but it have couple serious issues too:
A. As other reported morphs use wrong modifiers of penetration:
Crescent Sweep which is now magicka ultimate use physical pen and ignore magickal pen:
Damage with zero penetrations:

damage with mag penetration CP(same damage if use Drain):

damage with zero penetration:

damage with physical penetration CP:

Adding to your point: PTS Crescent Sweep uses Physical Penetration and Weapon Critical.

These first two Combat Metrics photos show that investing in Spell Erosion or Elfborn does not affect its damage

(all Crescent Sweeps shown are critical strikes):

Spell Erosion: 27 ~ Elfborn: 34 ~ Piercing: 0 ~ Precise Strikes: 0
= 26,707

Spell Erosion: 61 ~ Elfborn: 0 ~ Piercing: 0 ~ Precise Strikes: 0
= 26,707

The next two photos are evidence that investing Champion Points into Precise Strikes and Piercing are increasing the damage of PTS Crescent Sweep:

Spell Erosion: 27 ~ Elfborn: 0 ~ Piercing: 0 ~ Precise Strikes: 34
= 29,044

Spell Erosion: 0 ~ Elfborn: 0 ~ Piercing: 27 ~ Precise Strikes: 34
= 30,795

(All buffs and debuffs are identical on each of the 4 reports.)

Minno · September 2018

Elsterchen wrote: »

@Cinbri ty for all that testing!

Concerning restoring focus, I really like the change. Yes, loosing major vitallity is one thing, but the extra stam regen (for 20s duration) means stamina regeneration while blocking for stamplar tanks and a cheap and worthy defence ability that additionally offers sustain for stamplar DDs.

With the way the changes affect jabs in PVP I would rather build around jabs... one way to do this is offered by the changes to restoring focus: now I have the option to use my magica pool for something else then survivability (and with the changes: sustain). (i.e. contrary to what some stamplars think - I am NOT missing a magica dump due to this ability now costing stamina, but enjoy the option to add another magica costing buff/debuff to my rota).

The skill costs less then 1k stamina (I didn't check base cost, as i play stamina in medium and enjoy cost reduction by design) and restores 240 stam (again, I don#t know base-regen and my choice of armor and race may affect this number) over 20s -> for a stamplar thats a huge amount of stamina returned (given we had Nothing before).

Do you, by any chance, have the appropiate numbers for magplars?

I assume sustain should be equally usefull for magplars (with costs beeing still in the "very cheap" departement (below 1k) ... Imo the choice presented by rune focus is: Do i want magica sustain or stamina sustain? And I feel its perfectly fine that gaining magica sustain costs magica and gaining stamina sustain costs stamina, both cannot be accuired anyways and the changes create an equally challenging choice for everyone : Do I use my main ressource pool to sustain my main ressource ... or do I use my minor ressource pool to sustain my minor ressource.

I feel this is a fair choice for every templar, and I think the "correct" answer depends on the build, playstile and content the templar is paticipating in rather then the role or wether mag or stam.

Good write-up!!!

I'm torn on if restoring focus should be mag or Stam cost. It's 900 stamina for my magplar so i imagine it will be less for stamplar. And I saw use for it in my magplar who struggles with unblocked cc so having stamina come in every half second is nice utility

technohic · September 2018

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

empowering sweeps tooltip for me was 10k fully buffed. Either choose that with major protection for 6 seconds or run dawnbreaker for 2-3k more dmg with stun. I know magplar needed a burst ultimate so the cresant sweep changed needed to happen, but light armor + empowering looks promising due to the cheap 75 ultimate cost and you get a sustain boost, extra mag for sorcery, snare reduction/sprint, and the penetration + crit chance offers a decent offensive buff for you to select defensive options. Does require an offensive set or 2 to compensate for the burst loss

If the Penetration scaling doesn't get fixed then Empowering is nearly a no brainer. DBoS does cost more, but it is way easier to land, has the stun when you need it, and that stun means for sure at least 1 tick of the DoT component is going to hit which brings the damage to the same as Crescent Sweeps.

I would bet that Empowering is still scaling on Spell Pen also which makes it an even easier choice.

Minno wrote: »

Stealth buffs/changes. They have been doing lately the past few patches (daedric trickery cooldown changes for example but not listing it on patch notes.)

Ah, one can dream eh? I would love to see it stealth changed to affect all Templar skills

I havent test the scaling sadly. Even if it doesnt, on a light armor running unstable core with an offense monster set, you might not need the burst from cresant sweep anyway but the major protection plus quick burst will be enough to offset your lack of defenses.

Need to test in duels, but I tihnk LA magplar not running LA shields got a tiny buff.

There is one slight advantage Sweep has over Dawnbreaker is that it's (theoretically) a radial skill - thus the name. Whereas Dawnbreaker is a cone.

How many times have you hit Dawnbraker at the exact moment someone rolled away or you got rooted in the wrong orientation? It's happened to me at least once

The radius is smaller (6m) vs. DB (10m) but the Templar play style is mainly melee/brawler thanks to sweeps/jabs so you are already all up in their business anyway. So, I am definitely going to try out the changes. All that said, I run Flawless DB for that extra weapon damage (because I actually enjoy pve, too...GASP) and that might be hard to part with.

There have been issues in the past pre-swift with getting sweeps to land possibly due to players not really being where you see them. With swift being a thing now; its probably more of an issue

WreckfulAbandon · September 2018

Thanks @Cinbri for the great feedback and numbers to back it up!

I don't like the idea of an additional 25% dmg reduction to Jabs when we already have some kind of scaling issues going on there.

turlisley · September 2018

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Update 20 / Murkmire update PTS changes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435633/pts-patch-notes-v4-2-0

Templar

Other feedback:
-Still no change to Dark Flare's long cast-time, long projectile travel-time/delay, and overall low/lackluster damage. (In comparison, Snipe is superior in all of these categories.)
-Still no change to the (un)Balanced Warrior passive: +6% Weapon Damage and +2640 Spell Resistance. Where is the +6% Spell Damage and +2640 Physical Resistance? This is a super-simple easy fix/buff. Make the Balanced Warrior passive, ya'know, balanced...
-Still no change in moving the Master Ritualist passive to the Alliance War Support tree and giving Templar's Restoring Light tree something more useful and worthwhile.
-Still no change in the syngery-activation/range for Nova/Solar Disturbance/Solar Prison.
-Still no change in the healing-speed animation for Rite of Passage/Remembrance/Practiced Incantation channeled effect. (e.g. Templars frequently die while channeling this ultimate in PvP.)

Experimental feedback/suggestion:
-Remove the base-damage of Backlash/PurifyingLight/PowerOfTheLight and add that damage value to the damage-copied value instead. This would increase overall damage-done/burst-potential of this ability, and this would enable Backlash (+morphs) to be cast upon enemies without breaking stealth, and it would also allow PvE enemies to not agro you right away immediately upon casting the ability.
This is similar to how Nightblade's Reaper's Mark ability already functions -- it does not break stealth and it does not agro enemies -- until you begin your burst combo/rotation. The same situation/encounter occurs for Destruction Staff's WeaknessToElements/ElementalSusceptibility/ElementalDrain -- it does not break stealth and it does not agro enemies -- please make Backlash/PurifyingLight/PowerOfTheLight function like this.)

Agreed. These would be welcomed changes, indeed.
The Balanced Warrior passive really needs to give +6% Spell Damage and +2640 Physical Resistance. This may help Templar tanks out a bit because Dragonknights are still the go-to tank for everything.
Master Ritualist passive should really be in the Alliance War Support tree. This is a complete waste of a class-specific passive when the Champion Point passives and Alliance War Support tree passives function similarly to Templar's Master Ritualist passive.
Healing-speed animation for Rite of Passage needs to be improved.
Dark Flare needs more damage. It is basically a magicka-version of Snipe. Except Dark Flare is slower and does less damage.
It is also bad design that Backlash (+morphs) is the only class-based skill in the game that cannot crit.

Minno · September 2018

turlisley wrote: »

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Update 20 / Murkmire update PTS changes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435633/pts-patch-notes-v4-2-0

Templar

Other feedback:
-Still no change to Dark Flare's long cast-time, long projectile travel-time/delay, and overall low/lackluster damage. (In comparison, Snipe is superior in all of these categories.)
-Still no change to the (un)Balanced Warrior passive: +6% Weapon Damage and +2640 Spell Resistance. Where is the +6% Spell Damage and +2640 Physical Resistance? This is a super-simple easy fix/buff. Make the Balanced Warrior passive, ya'know, balanced...
-Still no change in moving the Master Ritualist passive to the Alliance War Support tree and giving Templar's Restoring Light tree something more useful and worthwhile.
-Still no change in the syngery-activation/range for Nova/Solar Disturbance/Solar Prison.
-Still no change in the healing-speed animation for Rite of Passage/Remembrance/Practiced Incantation channeled effect. (e.g. Templars frequently die while channeling this ultimate in PvP.)

Experimental feedback/suggestion:
-Remove the base-damage of Backlash/PurifyingLight/PowerOfTheLight and add that damage value to the damage-copied value instead. This would increase overall damage-done/burst-potential of this ability, and this would enable Backlash (+morphs) to be cast upon enemies without breaking stealth, and it would also allow PvE enemies to not agro you right away immediately upon casting the ability.
This is similar to how Nightblade's Reaper's Mark ability already functions -- it does not break stealth and it does not agro enemies -- until you begin your burst combo/rotation. The same situation/encounter occurs for Destruction Staff's WeaknessToElements/ElementalSusceptibility/ElementalDrain -- it does not break stealth and it does not agro enemies -- please make Backlash/PurifyingLight/PowerOfTheLight function like this.)

Agreed. These would be welcomed changes, indeed.
The Balanced Warrior passive really needs to give +6% Spell Damage and +2640 Physical Resistance. This may help Templar tanks out a bit because Dragonknights are still the go-to tank for everything.
Master Ritualist passive should really be in the Alliance War Support tree. This is a complete waste of a class-specific passive when the Champion Point passives and Alliance War Support tree passives function similarly to Templar's Master Ritualist passive.
Healing-speed animation for Rite of Passage needs to be improved.
Dark Flare needs more damage. It is basically a magicka-version of Snipe. Except Dark Flare is slower and does less damage.
It is also bad design that Backlash (+morphs) is the only class-based skill in the game that cannot crit.

They increased our minor sorcery buff to 10%. Granted now everyone else can get this buff by being near us when we proc it, but still we gained 5% SD where previously was only 5% to begin with. I agree on everything else as well.

itscompton · September 2018

ColoredScreams wrote: »

I have concerns.
For perspective, I play stamina templar in PvP. I welcome the repentance change but stamplars in PvP will no longer have a reliable uptime on minor protection (and minor vitality) as they did before. 8% damage mitigation is huge.

Spear Wall: This ability now grants you Minor Protection for 1.5/3 seconds after activating an Aedric Spear ability.

In PvP, stamplars are not exclusively casting Biting Jabs on cooldown, ever. They are sprinting, rolling, healing, applying bleeds, casting shuffle what feels like every 3 seconds to stay out of roots, purging, reapplying buffs, dots, and hots, ulting, repenting, getting into melee range, moving to line of sight etc... therefore having 3 seconds of minor protection tied directly to a 1.1 second channeled ability and Javelin, which is a blockable and dodgeable low damage stun that not all stamina templars use, will inevitably result in very poor uptime for minor protection (and less importantly minor vitality) on stamplar, as opposed to how it is now: near 100% with restoring focus. I understand restoring focus now restores some stamina, but it also now costs stamina. Even if there is a small over all net increase over 20 seconds of stamina gained you will have to directly use that gained stamina for expensive defensive abilities, such as rolling or vigor, just to try to make up for the loss of reliable minor protection and minor vitality. The restoring focus change is not a buff to stamina templars, players will realize that sustain is equally as difficult as the previous patches because they are taking 8% more damage and receiving 8% less healing for the majority of the fight.
Please allow stamina templar to have reliable access to minor protection. My suggestions would be to leave it on restoring focus but remove minor vitality, or increase the duration granted from the passive significantly, at least 10 seconds from 3 seconds, so it is more in line with the previous patches uptime. Stamplars will not jab when they need to play defensive.
Now let's talk about something equally as relevant: Jabs doing 25% less damage to major evasion and 10% less damage to minor evasion. The new changes make evasion very easily accessible to nearly every class in the game. It is now attainable through sets (including sets like gossamer that grant multiple targets major evasion), weapon skills, class skills, and an armor skill. I am aware that there was an 8% damage increase to jabs (although only to the one closest target), but this will lead to an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs. Please reconsider just an 8% damage increase, the ability already does so little damage to other targets that are not the primary target. My suggestion is to increase the damage it does to all other targets that are NOT the closet enemy by a notable amount in addition to an overall damage buff to the skill. This may still yield an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs against targets that have access to evasion (which is now very easily accessible), but it brings stamina templars overall damage more in line with previous patches and provides an important role for this classes signature ability.
Note: I do not think the rotation changes to jabs will be nearly enough. Most stamina templar will already be facing towards the enemy when jabbing, if you get rooted while jabbing, the majority of the time the remainder of the jabs will land directionally until they are outranged ("kited") by an enemy who is walking back. The issue with jabs vs roots is not about direction, it is about melee range. If jabs granted a brief amount of snare immunity, for example 2-3 seconds, this will be less of an issue.
If the changes for stamina templar remain the same, Murkmire will be an overall nerf to stamplars defense, healing, and damage as well as sustain because the stamina restored from restoring focus will have to directly be used try and make up for these new significant losses.

-@inscentia " Kiri "

I play a magtemp but I use restoring focus for the mitigation and healing and I'm also super bummed those are getting taken away, especially after we just got the benefit of them lasting the full duration even when we leave the Rune. I also use Empowering Sweep for the mitigation (which currently stacks with Major Protection from any source)and now that's not going to be worth running . On the live server if you get in the middle of a ball group and pop an Empowering you can easily hit 6-10 people, giving you 10 seconds of 39%-59% damage reduction. Using an Empowering when Pirate Skeleton procs right now puts me at or near the mitigation cap and allows me to go full offensive against multiple opponents and it really sucks that whole play style is getting trashed with these changes since 30% is now the limit for damage reduction even when both are up at the same time. So I really see the changes to Empowering being a huge nerf. I'm not even worried about losing DPS from the damage type change, for me using Empowering is all about stacking mitigation and that's going away.

Stibbons · September 2018

After small testing i felt pretty good after playing my templar in pve and pvp. One of the nicest patch for Templar in years...yes literally years!

Qbiken · September 2018

Altyrann wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Really love the changes, but I think 35% extra cost on radiant destruction is a bit overkill. 5,3k magicka for an execute is a lot of magicka...

Good news - "the damage done has been decreased by approximately 15% and cost by approximately 35%."

It's a decrease, not an increase. Roughly in line with duration reduction to keep cost per second the same.

I missread that completely xD

katorga · September 2018

itscompton wrote: »

I also use Empowering Sweep for the mitigation (which currently stacks with Major Protection from any source)and now that's not going to be worth running . On the live server if you get in the middle of a ball group and pop an Empowering you can easily hit 6-10 people, giving you 10 seconds of 39%-59% damage reduction.

That was one of my fun niche builds...see just how much raw damage reductionI could stack...nord 6%, minor protection 8% cyrodiil's light 15%, empowering 19-34%, major protection 30%. Kind of fun, but hard to get them all on at once.

Checkmath · September 2018

Hey guys, thank you all for your feedback. I am very busy atm, so I need a bit more time to read everything, but I appreciate your engagement. I will make sure, that some of the stuff written in here will be talked about in the next meeting.

Arciris · September 2018

My main concern about Templar is the constant invasion of the Major/Minor system into our Class passives or skills.
This patch went after the Aedric skill line:

1. Loose 15% damage reduction on block against ranged attacks and "gain" a Minor buff easily acquired elsewhere (Minor Protection).

2. Empowering Sweep: loose unique 15% damage reduction (plus percentage on enemies hit) for a Major buff that is getting easier and easier to get (Major Protection)

On a Heal-Tank, why use Empowering Sweeps over the more altruistic Light's Champion, when the latter provides same buff but for all team as well as damage boost? This is just an example, there are plenty of other situations)

In other patches it was the Restoring skill line (transformation of our unique passives into Major and Minor Mending) and the Dawn's Wrath where Nova lost it's unique 30% damage reduction debuff to Major Maim.

I don't see NB's Incap getting Major Berserk (while reducing Bersek to 20% and make it widely available) or NB's passive Refreshing Shadow being turned into Minor Endurance, Minor Intellect and Minor Fortitude for example (not that I want to)

If we really want all classes to bring something unique to the table, to make all of them equally desirable in all contents, we need to leave some things out of the Major/Minor system.
Unfortunately, it's seems that Templars are the most affected by those changes.

@Joy_Division would you be so kind to inquire about the reasoning behind making the Templar a Major/Minor class, without uniqueness? Thanks in advance

edit to add a tag to @Checkmath, I just saw your post. And @Tasear too

Joy_Division · September 2018

Arciris wrote: »

My main concern about Templar is the constant invasion of the Major/Minor system into our Class passives or skills.
This patch went after the Aedric skill line:

1. Loose 15% damage reduction on block against ranged attacks and "gain" a Minor buff easily acquired elsewhere (Minor Protection).

2. Empowering Sweep: loose unique 15% damage reduction (plus percentage on enemies hit) for a Major buff that is getting easier and easier to get (Major Protection)
On a Heal-Tank, why use Empowering Sweeps over the more altruistic Light's Champion, when the latter provides same buff but for all team as well as damage boost? This is just an example, there are plenty of other situations)

In other patches it was the Restoring skill line (transformation of our unique passives into Major and Minor Mending) and the Dawn's Wrath where Nova lost it's unique 30% damage reduction debuff to Major Maim.

I don't see NB's Incap getting Major Berserk (while reducing Bersek to 20% and make it widely available) or NB's passive Refreshing Shadow being turned into Minor Endurance, Minor Intellect and Minor Fortitude for example (not that I want to)

If we really want all classes to bring something unique to the table, to make all of them equally desirable in all contents, we need to leave some things out of the Major/Minor system.
Unfortunately, it's seems that Templars are the most affected by those changes.

@Joy_Division would you be so kind to inquire about the reasoning behind making the Templar a Major/Minor class, without uniqueness? Thanks in advance

edit to add a tag to @Checkmath, I just saw your post. And @Tasear too

Preaching to the choir here. I will bring it up in the meeting.

LittlePinkDot · September 2018

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I have never tried a Templar, so I dont understand all this good feedback on this thread. All ive heard before is how it has bad sustain and poor mobility.

Should I make a stamplar or a mageplar? And why?

Why not make both? Personally, I think stamplar is receiving more love for Murkmire, so start there.

If you roll a Dunmer stamplar, you can pretty easily re-roll a magplar on the same toon. You lose some max stats vs other classes (like Orc or Redguard for stam and Altmer for mag) but it gives you some flexibility either way.

Im leaning towards stamplar. I like stamina characters better anyway. The shield nerf has made me lose motivation in leveling up my mageblade that I recently wasted money on making her look awesome. Such a disappointment. I just wanted to TRY to make vet dungeons easier and more casual so I could get the gear I need. But my glass canon pvp sniper NB gets 1 shotted by bosses in dungeons. I need a good dungeon stamina build.