Xvorg wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

I said it previously and I'll say it again: GET RID OF POISON ON DKS!!!!

DKs were fine with flame based stamina skills. Even now, with MoA cp star it could be an option.

Poison is just like the weak brother of flame. It brings nothing to the table NOTHING. Not even increased dmg. Disease, shock, frost at least have a chance of getting a cool status that helps. DKs already have extra dmg on burning, so what's the *** point on giving poison dmg to DKs? Just because Dragons are snakes and snakes are venomous? WTF?

I don't want to enter into the discussion about the changes on mDK (because they are bad), but the changes to melee sDK are not going in the right direction. What's the point on reducing the cost of poison skills? Do sDKs now have to use a bow to do dmg? DragonKNIGHT... KNIGHT, KNIGHT!!!!

Why not just reducing the cost on all melee abilities instead? That would have synergyzed quite well with the range increase on all instant cast skills (sorry dizzy, you're not welcome here)... but instead we have the poison crap.

So, please, get rid of poison... poison is crap even for a class artificially build around that concept.


Now, if you want to make us a favor, increases our stam and magicka pool and give us the chance to be the only class that supports hybrid building... but idk why I bother giving you ideas you will never take.

That would be the biggest Nerf. Poison is physical damage. How would a Stam dk even put it cp if it did all flame damage...

The flame dmg you get from elemental expert is almost nothing. On a full 100 points you get just a 15% dmg increase. 43 points into that CP just give you 10% extra dmg. On a 10k skill is just 1k extra dmg.

On the other hand, the burning status outclasses poison status. Much more dmg.

StamDKs use to be the real Vampire Hunters of ESO before the poison crap came out.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I tried for a few days now on pts different builds (pve rotations). I tried 2 hander, dual wield and bow dps. Bow dps wasn't that bad actually, but the channel from snipe is a reason itself not to use. The acid spray fire quicker than other skills, but still share the same skill cooldown in the end, making it awkward to use in rotation.
The reduce cost of poison skills, even with using bow with acid spray and lethal arrow, was still not enough to sustain. There is still a lot of costy stam skills that you cannot ignore, like caltrops who is simply too good to not use, even in pure single target.
For unique builds it's still same issues. There is relequeen and thats it.. Even if the 5th bonus of relequeen doesn't charge up to its full damage, its still the highest damage set out there due to the stats it gives. I really hoped something unique could be used. It's sad there is so many sets and builds out there, but only one build works.
Now when you get 10% from minor brutality, you also lose a lot of stats by using 2 hander or bow, which again dual wield will win with it's high base weapon dmg and crit. The only good thing about bow, was the 100% of hawk eye passive, but will be lost if you use the Toxic Barrage ultimate.

The only skill from earthen heart used as stam dk, is molten armaments. It has a duration of 40 sec, but the minor brutality is 20 sec. There is no other earthen heart skill worth using in pve for stam dk, and spamming molten armaments every rotation doesn't feel right either. Solutions are ofc mag dk and dk tank, all though the logic where zenimax want other class to tank as well making the minor brutality in that case relied on the dd's. This won't be an issue in a 12 man trial, but for 4 man dungeons I actually see more and more non dk tanks lately, although it's annoying because no mobs are stacked correctly due to no chains. Also since mag dk is best to keep up the major brutality, doesn't make sense since magicka don't need brutality.

I also want to mention the removal of 6% dmg with poison aoe removal, was a stealth nerf to corrosive armor as well, since it doesn't benefit from the reduce cost and lost 6% damage. Would it be too OP to give reduce cost to poison ultimates as well?
No one use toxic barrage anyway, it's a dead skill. Losing hawk eye and get reflected in pvp.

To sum up, I'm not an expert here but will share my personal opinion. And the reason I'm not going with bow is simply because of the awkward channel animation of snipe and arrow spray. The increase range of melee abilities will help a bit, but you still need to put down rearming trap, which is 5 meter. Other trap morph or psijic skill accelerate, is not an option, and the good morph here has a channel as well. Stam dk's still rely on weapon skills, which is better on other classes due to their stats of increase physical damage and crit. Reduce cost on poison abilities will help archer dk's in pvp, but that's it.

For bow/bow what were you using? I sustained fine for 3mil with zero heavies, and only had one single heavy on the whole 6mil dummy. I did use double infused with front bar physical/stam steal enchant. But I got 39.6k without Major Fracture and at max range. I only spent 20min testing but I think it could do a little better than that if further optimized.

@LiquidPony did a 50k melee parse, and I believe said no heavies. Using VMA daggers.

I get the complaint against snipe cast, but I feel like the sustain is great. With my melee setup bow/bow I didn't need any heavies at all for both 6/3 mil dummies.

@Toc de Malsvi not sure I saved the CMX parse, but I did either 2 or 3 heavy attacks (coincidentally, I also had to do 3 heavy attacks to self-sustain a solo 6mil parse on a stamsorc this patch). That's with bi-stat food and no synergies. With synergies I'd bet you could solo a 15mil skeleton with bi-stat food on a stamDK right now, using the Maelstrom DW setup.

And I don't play stamDK, never have really other than briefly during last year's all-stamDK meta. I'm confident that someone who knows what they're doing on that build will be able to exceed that number.

The thing that a lot of people who haven't tested extensively yet seem to be missing is the Absorb Stamina enchant which now does physical damage. That thing does a tremendous amount of damage (not quite as much as Poison but it's not far behind) and grants a huge amount of sustain. It's a game-changer for builds with sustain issues.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I tried for a few days now on pts different builds (pve rotations). I tried 2 hander, dual wield and bow dps. Bow dps wasn't that bad actually, but the channel from snipe is a reason itself not to use. The acid spray fire quicker than other skills, but still share the same skill cooldown in the end, making it awkward to use in rotation.
The reduce cost of poison skills, even with using bow with acid spray and lethal arrow, was still not enough to sustain. There is still a lot of costy stam skills that you cannot ignore, like caltrops who is simply too good to not use, even in pure single target.
For unique builds it's still same issues. There is relequeen and thats it.. Even if the 5th bonus of relequeen doesn't charge up to its full damage, its still the highest damage set out there due to the stats it gives. I really hoped something unique could be used. It's sad there is so many sets and builds out there, but only one build works.
Now when you get 10% from minor brutality, you also lose a lot of stats by using 2 hander or bow, which again dual wield will win with it's high base weapon dmg and crit. The only good thing about bow, was the 100% of hawk eye passive, but will be lost if you use the Toxic Barrage ultimate.

The only skill from earthen heart used as stam dk, is molten armaments. It has a duration of 40 sec, but the minor brutality is 20 sec. There is no other earthen heart skill worth using in pve for stam dk, and spamming molten armaments every rotation doesn't feel right either. Solutions are ofc mag dk and dk tank, all though the logic where zenimax want other class to tank as well making the minor brutality in that case relied on the dd's. This won't be an issue in a 12 man trial, but for 4 man dungeons I actually see more and more non dk tanks lately, although it's annoying because no mobs are stacked correctly due to no chains. Also since mag dk is best to keep up the major brutality, doesn't make sense since magicka don't need brutality.

I also want to mention the removal of 6% dmg with poison aoe removal, was a stealth nerf to corrosive armor as well, since it doesn't benefit from the reduce cost and lost 6% damage. Would it be too OP to give reduce cost to poison ultimates as well?
No one use toxic barrage anyway, it's a dead skill. Losing hawk eye and get reflected in pvp.

To sum up, I'm not an expert here but will share my personal opinion. And the reason I'm not going with bow is simply because of the awkward channel animation of snipe and arrow spray. The increase range of melee abilities will help a bit, but you still need to put down rearming trap, which is 5 meter. Other trap morph or psijic skill accelerate, is not an option, and the good morph here has a channel as well. Stam dk's still rely on weapon skills, which is better on other classes due to their stats of increase physical damage and crit. Reduce cost on poison abilities will help archer dk's in pvp, but that's it.

For bow/bow what were you using? I sustained fine for 3mil with zero heavies, and only had one single heavy on the whole 6mil dummy. I did use double infused with front bar physical/stam steal enchant. But I got 39.6k without Major Fracture and at max range. I only spent 20min testing but I think it could do a little better than that if further optimized.

@LiquidPony did a 50k melee parse, and I believe said no heavies. Using VMA daggers.

I get the complaint against snipe cast, but I feel like the sustain is great. With my melee setup bow/bow I didn't need any heavies at all for both 6/3 mil dummies.

LiquidPony wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I tried for a few days now on pts different builds (pve rotations). I tried 2 hander, dual wield and bow dps. Bow dps wasn't that bad actually, but the channel from snipe is a reason itself not to use. The acid spray fire quicker than other skills, but still share the same skill cooldown in the end, making it awkward to use in rotation.
The reduce cost of poison skills, even with using bow with acid spray and lethal arrow, was still not enough to sustain. There is still a lot of costy stam skills that you cannot ignore, like caltrops who is simply too good to not use, even in pure single target.
For unique builds it's still same issues. There is relequeen and thats it.. Even if the 5th bonus of relequeen doesn't charge up to its full damage, its still the highest damage set out there due to the stats it gives. I really hoped something unique could be used. It's sad there is so many sets and builds out there, but only one build works.
Now when you get 10% from minor brutality, you also lose a lot of stats by using 2 hander or bow, which again dual wield will win with it's high base weapon dmg and crit. The only good thing about bow, was the 100% of hawk eye passive, but will be lost if you use the Toxic Barrage ultimate.

The only skill from earthen heart used as stam dk, is molten armaments. It has a duration of 40 sec, but the minor brutality is 20 sec. There is no other earthen heart skill worth using in pve for stam dk, and spamming molten armaments every rotation doesn't feel right either. Solutions are ofc mag dk and dk tank, all though the logic where zenimax want other class to tank as well making the minor brutality in that case relied on the dd's. This won't be an issue in a 12 man trial, but for 4 man dungeons I actually see more and more non dk tanks lately, although it's annoying because no mobs are stacked correctly due to no chains. Also since mag dk is best to keep up the major brutality, doesn't make sense since magicka don't need brutality.

I also want to mention the removal of 6% dmg with poison aoe removal, was a stealth nerf to corrosive armor as well, since it doesn't benefit from the reduce cost and lost 6% damage. Would it be too OP to give reduce cost to poison ultimates as well?
No one use toxic barrage anyway, it's a dead skill. Losing hawk eye and get reflected in pvp.

To sum up, I'm not an expert here but will share my personal opinion. And the reason I'm not going with bow is simply because of the awkward channel animation of snipe and arrow spray. The increase range of melee abilities will help a bit, but you still need to put down rearming trap, which is 5 meter. Other trap morph or psijic skill accelerate, is not an option, and the good morph here has a channel as well. Stam dk's still rely on weapon skills, which is better on other classes due to their stats of increase physical damage and crit. Reduce cost on poison abilities will help archer dk's in pvp, but that's it.

For bow/bow what were you using? I sustained fine for 3mil with zero heavies, and only had one single heavy on the whole 6mil dummy. I did use double infused with front bar physical/stam steal enchant. But I got 39.6k without Major Fracture and at max range. I only spent 20min testing but I think it could do a little better than that if further optimized.

@LiquidPony did a 50k melee parse, and I believe said no heavies. Using VMA daggers.

I get the complaint against snipe cast, but I feel like the sustain is great. With my melee setup bow/bow I didn't need any heavies at all for both 6/3 mil dummies.

Was on 6 mill. You prob had different rotation than me, also if you was at max range, you didnt use trap. Did you use acid spray? U can sustain if you time your ulties well enough, but standing still on a 3 mill dummy isn't a good sustain test tho. But ye ofc depends on rotation and skill usage. But I have zero issues draining my stamina to 0 either if thats what I want And no i didn't use stamina return enchant, I used increase wpn dmg enchant for max dps. If I weave in one heavy I can sustain, but I won't be using it due to the clumsy snipe in rotation, and also same stuff with bow. Go relequeen and you are good. Relequeen all the way, that's my point.

Using a Weapon Damage enchant on the Infused offhand DW weapon gives 90%+ uptime, versus close to 100% if you put that glyph on the bow. In a group scenario with synergies, it may make more sense to put the Weapon Damage glyph on the bow and the Absorb Stamina glyph on the Infused offhand weapon. But, for the purposes of solo parsing a 6mil, the bit of sustain boost from running it the way I did was more beneficial to DPS than the extra ~35 weapon damage from increasing the Weapon Damage glyph uptime by 8%.

For bow/bow or bow/2h builds, using Absorb Stamina instead of Poison will be beneficial if sustain is an issue. There's not much of a drop-off in damage from Poison to Absorb Stamina.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Moved the book in Chalman Keep to Zimmeron’s war table.

zParallaxz wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Cauterize and eruption both need good secondary effects, phat heals mean little when they are so limited, cauterize being one target every 5s means its naught more than a bursty HoT/Eh BoL hybrid with a crit bonus active on one bar. Eruption is too small for mobile fights and PvE healers overheals anyway so stacking another HoT on top of springs is pointless. The snare is not worth much either due to its size.

15% dodge chance vs the DK in it and another 15% miss to the enemy in it. Lower the healing back. Tadaa, massive buff to stand your ground and DK control whilst having is balanced with the cost/range/immovable aspect of it, and only potent if enemies actually step in it.
Doesn't create any monsters since the current meta tonk is super fast and tanky, so 2 types of survivial, the DK would lose that kitability, and if the target isn't bad, then they will stand outside it, so it'll be no different to a stationary current evasion, so all dots, undodgables etc would ignore and you can pressure them out.

It'd also provide a good unique buff for healers in PvE

ak_pvp wrote: »

Cauterize and eruption both need good secondary effects, phat heals mean little when they are so limited, cauterize being one target every 5s means its naught more than a bursty HoT/Eh BoL hybrid with a crit bonus active on one bar. Eruption is too small for mobile fights and PvE healers overheals anyway so stacking another HoT on top of springs is pointless. The snare is not worth much either due to its size.

15% dodge chance vs the DK in it and another 15% miss to the enemy in it. Lower the healing back. Tadaa, massive buff to stand your ground and DK control whilst having is balanced with the cost/range/immovable aspect of it, and only potent if enemies actually step in it.
Doesn't create any monsters since the current meta tonk is super fast and tanky, so 2 types of survivial, the DK would lose that kitability, and if the target isn't bad, then they will stand outside it, so it'll be no different to a stationary current evasion, so all dots, undodgables etc would ignore and you can pressure them out.

It'd also provide a good unique buff for healers in PvE

You see that’s what I don’t understand, how ****ing hard is to come up with an idea like that for Zos. You have paid employees who keep blowing smoke up peoples butts with the way combat design is. It’s almost like the common person who works for Zos doesn’t play at a higher level than the common high ranked but low skilled, always in a 10+ group zergling.

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

You know- I got to thinking about the "buffs" we received for Eruption.

Technically speaking- isn't it just trying to rebalance a nerf? The damage from Eruption was increased- but anyone who's running Evasion will be taking less damage from it, anyway.

Evasion decreases AOE damage (of Eruption) by 25% and Eruption's initial damage was increased by 15% for the initial burst and 70% over time if a stamina character stands in it (yeah, right... not with swift). So, basically our Eruption (and Leaps and Talons) will be weaker against any players who run Evasion ::cough stamblades cough::

This guy gets it. Leap is nerfed along with almost every burst combo threatening to NB's. While their burst combos are untouched and their dodgeable abilities are essentially buffed by 1) the removal of passive dodge and 2) the nerfing of dodge roll. Heavy NB's will be barely scratched by the combos needed to kill them while their burst is entirely unaffected.

So far the Murkmire PTS just further reinforces NB's advantages over the other classes.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Every MagBlade ganker's wet dream. Slap Zaan and Caluurion on- and they're good to go. One quick light attack and BOOM- proc, proc, proc. If it doesn't work the first go round? Easy peasy! Just pop Healing Ward and cloak. Instantly resetting the fight after avoiding our DOTs while cloaked. #BALANCE