PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

OrphanHelgen

Weps wrote: »

Nothing...Not a damn thing.
Like "Hello?!? Is there anyone out there?"

People gave up. Both developers and players.

Ragnarock41

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Nothing...Not a damn thing.
Like "Hello?!? Is there anyone out there?"

People gave up. Both developers and players.

Sooo, dead game I guess. Dead for PvP that for sure.

LonePirate

Noxji wrote: »

As a MagDK main I almost feel to powerful in pvp.

I have a sincere question to ask because I am genuinely curious about this statement. Basically, why would you say such a thing?

Mag DK melee class skills deal far less damage than stamina weapon skills. You cannot block much damage or roll dodge it given a likely stamina pool below 15K with a stamina retention below 800, if not 600. You’re most likely not in Medium armor so Shuffle is not an option. You can use your wings to deal with Sorcs and Bows. Your heals are no match for a Templar or for Vigor on a full spec’ed stam user. Maybe you reach a draw against another Mag DK or a Mag Templar. Nightblades are a guessing game depending on how much burst they can inflict when they surprise you and how fast they can cloak, if they can. Yet Stamina melee players will eat your lunch all day as they can DPS, dodge, block, heal and execute more than you.

So how exactly do you feel more powerful in PVP? Do you go after the occasional Volunteer, Recruit and Tyro? Mag DKs are one of the weakest classes in PVP and your defiant confidence is puzzling to say the very least given all of the facts which contradict your statement.

venomsky

This is time waste.....

Savos_Saren

So, I’ve been testing my DK in the PTS against other classes. I’ve noticed a significant decrease in my crowd control and damage (talons, eruption, snares from ardent flame) especially with the changes to light armor and evasion.

Has anyone else felt the impact? For a “crowd control” and “DOT based” class- I’m starting to feel neutered.

I can especially feel the difference against stamina based classes. My talons are almost a joke against them.

Suryoyo

LonePirate wrote: »

Noxji wrote: »

As a MagDK main I almost feel to powerful in pvp.

I have a sincere question to ask because I am genuinely curious about this statement. Basically, why would you say such a thing?

Mag DK melee class skills deal far less damage than stamina weapon skills. You cannot block much damage or roll dodge it given a likely stamina pool below 15K with a stamina retention below 800, if not 600. You’re most likely not in Medium armor so Shuffle is not an option. You can use your wings to deal with Sorcs and Bows. Your heals are no match for a Templar or for Vigor on a full spec’ed stam user. Maybe you reach a draw against another Mag DK or a Mag Templar. Nightblades are a guessing game depending on how much burst they can inflict when they surprise you and how fast they can cloak, if they can. Yet Stamina melee players will eat your lunch all day as they can DPS, dodge, block, heal and execute more than you.

So how exactly do you feel more powerful in PVP? Do you go after the occasional Volunteer, Recruit and Tyro? Mag DKs are one of the weakest classes in PVP and your defiant confidence is puzzling to say the very least given all of the facts which contradict your statement.

Speaking for me: Good stamina players easily kill me without effort, can't do nothing against them, maybe with luck using Zaan+Sload ?I don't know. But I guess it's partly because we're (magDK) a magicka melee class and I slot light armor.


Anyway, once again, can the devs answer on Flame Lash/Power Lash, with these changes (cost and range), why would we want to use it over destructive touch (DoT can proc skoria) or crushing shock since they can give back far more magicka, ignore 10% spell resistance, have far more range and can interrupt ?
Add the changes to evasion, so much to go melee just to cast power lash...

Also, with the latest patch notes making sorc and light armour shields uninterruptible, can they be interrupted using petrification ?

Kanar

kookster wrote: »

For those who want to know. the elder dragon passives buff the follow skills:
Class Skills:

• Lava Whip: 5 -> 7
• Searing Strikes: 5 -> 7

Two Handed Skills:

• Reverse Slash: 5 -> 7

One Hand and Shield Skills:

• Puncture: 5 -> 7
• Low Slash: 5 -> 7
• Power Bash: 5 -> 7

Dual Wield Skills:

• Twin Slashes: 5 -> 7

It buffs onslaught too.

StShoot

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, I’ve been testing my DK in the PTS against other classes. I’ve noticed a significant decrease in my crowd control and damage (talons, eruption, snares from ardent flame) especially with the changes to light armor and evasion.

Has anyone else felt the impact? For a “crowd control” and “DOT based” class- I’m starting to feel neutered.

I can especially feel the difference against stamina based classes. My talons are almost a joke against them.

taloons are allready a joke, they were since you could gain 100 % snare immunity out of forward momentum, the only reason to use them is for the dmg reduction or if you find a potato that forgot to cast his momentum O,o they are mostly to expensiv to use them to break cloak (on sotha).

zParallaxz

LonePirate wrote: »

Noxji wrote: »

As a MagDK main I almost feel to powerful in pvp.

I have a sincere question to ask because I am genuinely curious about this statement. Basically, why would you say such a thing?

Mag DK melee class skills deal far less damage than stamina weapon skills. You cannot block much damage or roll dodge it given a likely stamina pool below 15K with a stamina retention below 800, if not 600. You’re most likely not in Medium armor so Shuffle is not an option. You can use your wings to deal with Sorcs and Bows. Your heals are no match for a Templar or for Vigor on a full spec’ed stam user. Maybe you reach a draw against another Mag DK or a Mag Templar. Nightblades are a guessing game depending on how much burst they can inflict when they surprise you and how fast they can cloak, if they can. Yet Stamina melee players will eat your lunch all day as they can DPS, dodge, block, heal and execute more than you.

So how exactly do you feel more powerful in PVP? Do you go after the occasional Volunteer, Recruit and Tyro? Mag DKs are one of the weakest classes in PVP and your defiant confidence is puzzling to say the very least given all of the facts which contradict your statement.

It’s the classic scenario where he killed a couple pugs and thinks the class is strong. Try solo on magdk without s&b, it’s damn near impossible.

LonePirate

Talons are only useful in Cyrodiil against guards or the occasional Magicka player who is low on or out of Stamina. Otherwise it is a wasted skill slot. This will probably be news for ZOS since they do not have anyone who plays a Mag DK in Cyrodiil on any of the live servers.

Savos_Saren

Right. What I’m getting at is that with the “buffs” from recent patches- our CCs are becoming more and more moot. But we’re not getting an increase in damage to make up for it.

As it is- stamsorcs can run circles around us, NBs can pop forward momentum to ignore our CCs (and cloak to ignore our DOTs), and Templars can out heal our DOTs.

We got a “buff” to eruption- but with the change to evasion- it still hits weaker than the last patch.

Onefrkncrzypope

Weps wrote: »

Nothing...Not a damn thing.
Like "Hello?!? Is there anyone out there?"

Hey you, out in the cold
With your passives getting worthless getting old,
Can you hear me?

Pink Floyd.

MaxwellC

@Noxji
The problem is Stam DK what you called a buff was not the issue with Stam DK nor was sustain using poison abilities a main issue.
In a PvE Theater poison abilities are DoTs & as such there is very little need to continually spam as they're single targeted abilities. You can sustain easy in PvE by doing the same old Heavy attack into ability via animation cancelling albeit HA was nerfed so LA can somehow be the better DPS option because obviously up is down & down is up.

In a PvP theater poison abilities aren't spammed but rather abilities that deal physical/bleed damage as that is what we're limited to in PvP unless you're trying super hard to use DK DoT abilities to somehow survive in open world PvP (GL with that joke).

The issue with Stam DKs in PvP is limited class abilities that provide decent damage so we can follow up with animation cancelling as that is our only hope to have a consistent burst damage (ultimates are burst damage but are not up as quickly as regular abilities for obvious reasons).

The other issue is sustain as I stated before we generally use abilities that dole out bleed/physical damage & before we had an okay sustain situation when we had earthen heart give 5% stam back when casting earthen heart related abilities (5% of your max stamina) plus we also had a better battle roar but that is gone too.

I've consistently tested on the PTS but recently gave up because what's the point of compiling data & offering feedback that gains support just for ZOS to go in the other direction. I take it you're new to the DK class but mate it's been difficult to even get something for Stamina DKs & I've argued that since Imperial City prison came out; Funny thing is the things I argued went in the other direction even when addressing the bug with wings which turned into wings no longer reflecting comets because it as they stated "An ultimate & shouldn't be reflected" but the best is that Sorcerers overload is still reflect-able lmao.

ZoM_Head

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, I’ve been testing my DK in the PTS against other classes. I’ve noticed a significant decrease in my crowd control and damage (talons, eruption, snares from ardent flame) especially with the changes to light armor and evasion.

Has anyone else felt the impact? For a “crowd control” and “DOT based” class- I’m starting to feel neutered.

I can especially feel the difference against stamina based classes. My talons are almost a joke against them.

What made you realize just now that the mDK felt neutered? Started way back if you ask me.

Personally, i seriously doubt anything good will happen, and this thread is just made to let us shoot our opinions and anger here and there. They never buffed the mDK to make a serious impact since "ESO 2.0", and they never will, 3 years of promises and here we are.

Carbonised

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, I’ve been testing my DK in the PTS against other classes. I’ve noticed a significant decrease in my crowd control and damage (talons, eruption, snares from ardent flame) especially with the changes to light armor and evasion.

Has anyone else felt the impact? For a “crowd control” and “DOT based” class- I’m starting to feel neutered.

I can especially feel the difference against stamina based classes. My talons are almost a joke against them.

I feel the same in BGs, even currently on live. Snares from ardent flame vanish in an instant, fossilize has a range so small you practically have to stand on top of your opponent to hit it off, impossible to root/talon anyone since every stam build runs Forward Momentum. Every dot gets cloaked off or cleansed off. Magdk back to being just a punching bag, especially if you go for a staff/light armor version.

Noxji

LonePirate wrote: »

Noxji wrote: »

As a MagDK main I almost feel to powerful in pvp.

I have a sincere question to ask because I am genuinely curious about this statement. Basically, why would you say such a thing?

Mag DK melee class skills deal far less damage than stamina weapon skills. You cannot block much damage or roll dodge it given a likely stamina pool below 15K with a stamina retention below 800, if not 600. You’re most likely not in Medium armor so Shuffle is not an option. You can use your wings to deal with Sorcs and Bows. Your heals are no match for a Templar or for Vigor on a full spec’ed stam user. Maybe you reach a draw against another Mag DK or a Mag Templar. Nightblades are a guessing game depending on how much burst they can inflict when they surprise you and how fast they can cloak, if they can. Yet Stamina melee players will eat your lunch all day as they can DPS, dodge, block, heal and execute more than you.

So how exactly do you feel more powerful in PVP? Do you go after the occasional Volunteer, Recruit and Tyro? Mag DKs are one of the weakest classes in PVP and your defiant confidence is puzzling to say the very least given all of the facts which contradict your statement.

I first have to say. The flaming community did get the better of me while posting.

To clarify my point of view. In a 1v1 situation fighting anything other than stam sorc/warden, I can indefinitely sustain because of the "stunlock"ish mechanic of the magDk. If they happen to be tanky or have to good sustain, the fight will take forever until one of us makes a mistake. I am by no means a pro, but I have played magDk in pvp for almost 4 years.

Now to thr stam sorc/warden. They win because these two classes usually stack speed. Speed is unfortunately the death to most setups. Especially when they proc immovable. Which in turns renders the magdk useless. Now we have to low dmg and no burst at all. Which I also stated.

Dragonknight needs a lot of work and tweaking and buffs. But from the stun point of view of magdk, its a little powerfull. But we do have a saying in sweden. Goes something like this: -You don't miss what's there until it's gone. So idk the future of the new change. I hope this sort of clarifys my meaning of all this.

Anne_Firehawk

It's a waste of breath posting anything in here. I don't remember how many patches we tried, probably more than most people here are playing the game for but the devs never listen to feedback, this thread is just obligatory so they can say every class has a thread for feedback to be honest.

I don't even want to comment on the recent changes, reducing the range of whip even further and then putting it into a useless passive instead of just making the passive useful in the first place is just a prime example on how working hours are spent on class balance. People don't actually realise that a Magicka DK is melee and magicka in PVE, now having a casttime on shields as a melee class with reduced range is gonna be fun for those who play it, but I guess nobody thought about that as always.

Noxji

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Noxji
The problem is Stam DK what you called a buff was not the issue with Stam DK nor was sustain using poison abilities a main issue.
In a PvE Theater poison abilities are DoTs & as such there is very little need to continually spam as they're single targeted abilities. You can sustain easy in PvE by doing the same old Heavy attack into ability via animation cancelling albeit HA was nerfed so LA can somehow be the better DPS option because obviously up is down & down is up.

In a PvP theater poison abilities aren't spammed but rather abilities that deal physical/bleed damage as that is what we're limited to in PvP unless you're trying super hard to use DK DoT abilities to somehow survive in open world PvP (GL with that joke).

The issue with Stam DKs in PvP is limited class abilities that provide decent damage so we can follow up with animation cancelling as that is our only hope to have a consistent burst damage (ultimates are burst damage but are not up as quickly as regular abilities for obvious reasons).

The other issue is sustain as I stated before we generally use abilities that dole out bleed/physical damage & before we had an okay sustain situation when we had earthen heart give 5% stam back when casting earthen heart related abilities (5% of your max stamina) plus we also had a better battle roar but that is gone too.

I've consistently tested on the PTS but recently gave up because what's the point of compiling data & offering feedback that gains support just for ZOS to go in the other direction. I take it you're new to the DK class but mate it's been difficult to even get something for Stamina DKs & I've argued that since Imperial City prison came out; Funny thing is the things I argued went in the other direction even when addressing the bug with wings which turned into wings no longer reflecting comets because it as they stated "An ultimate & shouldn't be reflected" but the best is that Sorcerers overload is still reflect-able lmao.

I cannot answer for stam dk as I don't play it. I only read the patch notes. People was complaining about smth that doesn't exist, just a clarification on what the patch note said.

Edit: I am by no means new to dk as I've been playing it for almost 4 years. Mainly as DD but also as healer. I barely played stam dk or tank enough to voice a solid opinion in regards to balance. Im am by no means a stamina player at all. I do play all classes with magicka however.

Xvorg

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Nothing...Not a damn thing.
Like "Hello?!? Is there anyone out there?"

Hey you, out in the cold
With your passives getting worthless getting old,
Can you hear me?

Pink Floyd.

Good call

Ragnarock41

Noxji wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Noxji
The problem is Stam DK what you called a buff was not the issue with Stam DK nor was sustain using poison abilities a main issue.
In a PvE Theater poison abilities are DoTs & as such there is very little need to continually spam as they're single targeted abilities. You can sustain easy in PvE by doing the same old Heavy attack into ability via animation cancelling albeit HA was nerfed so LA can somehow be the better DPS option because obviously up is down & down is up.

In a PvP theater poison abilities aren't spammed but rather abilities that deal physical/bleed damage as that is what we're limited to in PvP unless you're trying super hard to use DK DoT abilities to somehow survive in open world PvP (GL with that joke).

The issue with Stam DKs in PvP is limited class abilities that provide decent damage so we can follow up with animation cancelling as that is our only hope to have a consistent burst damage (ultimates are burst damage but are not up as quickly as regular abilities for obvious reasons).

The other issue is sustain as I stated before we generally use abilities that dole out bleed/physical damage & before we had an okay sustain situation when we had earthen heart give 5% stam back when casting earthen heart related abilities (5% of your max stamina) plus we also had a better battle roar but that is gone too.

I've consistently tested on the PTS but recently gave up because what's the point of compiling data & offering feedback that gains support just for ZOS to go in the other direction. I take it you're new to the DK class but mate it's been difficult to even get something for Stamina DKs & I've argued that since Imperial City prison came out; Funny thing is the things I argued went in the other direction even when addressing the bug with wings which turned into wings no longer reflecting comets because it as they stated "An ultimate & shouldn't be reflected" but the best is that Sorcerers overload is still reflect-able lmao.

I cannot answer for stam dk as I don't play it. I only read the patch notes. People was complaining about smth that doesn't exist, just a clarification on what the patch note said.

Edit: I am by no means new to dk as I've been playing it for almost 4 years. Mainly as DD but also as healer. I barely played stam dk or tank enough to voice a solid opinion in regards to balance. Im am by no means a stamina player at all. I do play all classes with magicka however.

All you did with your initial post was repeating the patch notes and calling us ignorant cause we flamed. If you didn't played a stamDk nor do you care for it, why are you here calling people ignorant?

What do you do here other than repeating what we already know? A huge nothing. Then what gives you the right to call me ignorant for flaming ?

Odovacar

I think us DK mains have spent far too much time consoling our Sorc buddies. We feel for the loss and it will hurt for some time. Now lets convince them to join us ! By the time everything goes live you could already have your new MagDK 50'ed for a week or so.


#LonglivetheDK

Noxji

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

All you did with your initial post was repeating the patch notes and calling us ignorant cause we flamed. If you didn't played a stamDk nor do you care for it, why are you here calling people ignorant?

What do you do here other than repeating what we already know? A huge nothing. Then what gives you the right to call me ignorant for flaming ?

Bu hu... If you got offended, that's on you. My idea was to start controversy so people learn to actually read. Looks like I've done my job here! My initial post was a clarification of the patch note that sooo many people seemed to miss, yet comment. I put a disclaimer at the top of the comment as well as at the bottom, to keep people like you from commenting about how ridiculous my post is.

There is a distinct difference between feedback, flaming, crying, ideas and criticism. That's all I'm saying. Good day. I'm out. My job here is done.

NBrookus

MagDK felt really good going into Summerset, despite bleeds and how overtuned certain stam classes were. You could go for damage or choose to be tanky (but not both), there was build variety and different ways to play the class.

Then the meta shifted slowly to speed, forward momentum and more speed. And magDK just can't compete in that meta. But to be fair, no class specs really compete with Stamden and Stamblade right now, and Murkmire as it stands is buffing them.

Xvorg

And we are done. With the last notes I've realized the development team is happy with the current status of DK.

MagDK is way weaker than live. In the PTS environment you don't find the same big fishes than on live, so my impression is that when the patch goes out, mDKs will be gutted again. They were on a decent position, now they'll be on the bottom again.

If your main spammable loses range, and you get an extra cost despite it's already dodgeable, what's the point on keep on trying? We are not talking about Sorcs and NBs, classes that can cope with an extra cost on a proc, we are talking about the class that has the worst resource management in the game, which depends mostly on "special sitiations" (being those special situations an enemy taking dmg).

Swift has made the entire game a pain in the ass for DKs and templars. The "stay your ground" identity is an anacronysm that belongs to the merethic era at this point. ZoS takes all the pride in their "fast paced combat" but still has 2 classes anchored to a world that doesn't exist anymore. Thanks

The case of StamDK is even worst. I've always been a little moderate regarding the stam spammable on StamDK, but at this point I believe there's only one answer to all our questions: they don't know what to do with DK. DK is the problem child in the family. Ok, it can tank better than anyone, but it shouldn't be an exclusive feature, so from summerset on we have seen how all classes are turning more or less "generic" on their approach, so you can tank even with a sorc now, or a NB (despite you were able to tank with a sap tank some years ago, but you know, that was not a "good tanking" according to ZoS). But what happens with DK? Can a DK reach the same dmg output sorcs and NBs get, or at least similar resource management? It seems the "generic approach" is adressed only on one side.

Reasons to keep on playing? Fewer than last week. If at least we feel heared by the development team... but we know how they work, they listen to those who complain and cry the most. There are streamers for each class except for DKs. Why? Simple, the class is just bad. Any reasons to risk their source of incomes with a broken toy?

At the end the so called "balance" is nothing more than a popularity contest and since the DK community is smaller day after day, there's no way they'll change anything until the class is long time forgotten. Saddly, the only solution I see is to stop playing the class. Then, maybe, they will be able to see what they have done.

Finally, paraphrasing the great Chuck Palahniuk:

“We’re the middle children of Tamriel, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great Skills. No Great Purpose. Our Great Skill was taken away long ago… our Great Purpose is being given to others, patch after patch. We’ve all been raised on youtube to believe that one day we’d all be streamers, and 1vX gods, and PvP stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off.”

Ragnarock41

Noxji wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

All you did with your initial post was repeating the patch notes and calling us ignorant cause we flamed. If you didn't played a stamDk nor do you care for it, why are you here calling people ignorant?

What do you do here other than repeating what we already know? A huge nothing. Then what gives you the right to call me ignorant for flaming ?

Bu hu... If you got offended, that's on you. My idea was to start controversy so people learn to actually read. Looks like I've done my job here! My initial post was a clarification of the patch note that sooo many people seemed to miss, yet comment. I put a disclaimer at the top of the comment as well as at the bottom, to keep people like you from commenting about how ridiculous my post is.

There is a distinct difference between feedback, flaming, crying, ideas and criticism. That's all I'm saying. Good day. I'm out. My job here is done.

Yes I agree, there is a distinct difference between feedback and flaming. I admit I flamed at the patch notes , however your post is not feedback, nor an idea nor criticism. You just repeat the patch notes and flame at other people for flaming.

So again, I'm gonna ignore the fact that you dodged my first question, answer me, what is your purpose here?

Savos_Saren

Unfortunately, everyone is focusing on the Sorcs. It seems like it's hard to get a word in edgewise. Here's what I want to know:

When, if ever, did we ask for slightly more range on melee abilities? (And it's not even to all melee abilities...)

When, if ever, did we ask for reduced stamina cost for poison abilities?

I don't remember seeing those on our pain points. I do remember that:

We've complained about sustain- which with the latest update- actually hurt mDKs. (powerlash now costs mag)

We've complained about stamDKs not getting more class oriented abilities to make them feel more like DKs.

We've complained that our passives suck and need to be updated.

I really don't understand why the hell we're even providing feedback at this point.

Noxji

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Yes I agree, there is a distinct difference between feedback and flaming. I admit I flamed at the patch notes , however your post is not feedback, nor an idea nor criticism. You just repeat the patch notes and flame at other people for flaming.

So again, I'm gonna ignore the fact that you dodged my first question, answer me, what is your purpose here?

My purpose was to shed light on what the patch note actually said, by providing additional information. So that people can understand what actually got changed. So they can then write back, reflecting the patch notes rather then giving crap about stuff that never got said, or misunderstood. The latter provided they've read the patch notes at all.

My purpose was also to provide information about the patch note regarding the DK in the DK thread. Telling people that maybe testing is something that needs to be done before writing on the forum to provide constructive criticism.

I guess I just got tired of reading and reading, scrolling and scrolling through content after content of non related spat. So I decided to post a comprehensive version of the patch notes, hoping to end the inevitable. Which I later regret, because this is after all the internet.

Noxji

zParallaxz wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Noxji wrote: »

As a MagDK main I almost feel to powerful in pvp.

I have a sincere question to ask because I am genuinely curious about this statement. Basically, why would you say such a thing?

Mag DK melee class skills deal far less damage than stamina weapon skills. You cannot block much damage or roll dodge it given a likely stamina pool below 15K with a stamina retention below 800, if not 600. You’re most likely not in Medium armor so Shuffle is not an option. You can use your wings to deal with Sorcs and Bows. Your heals are no match for a Templar or for Vigor on a full spec’ed stam user. Maybe you reach a draw against another Mag DK or a Mag Templar. Nightblades are a guessing game depending on how much burst they can inflict when they surprise you and how fast they can cloak, if they can. Yet Stamina melee players will eat your lunch all day as they can DPS, dodge, block, heal and execute more than you.

So how exactly do you feel more powerful in PVP? Do you go after the occasional Volunteer, Recruit and Tyro? Mag DKs are one of the weakest classes in PVP and your defiant confidence is puzzling to say the very least given all of the facts which contradict your statement.

It’s the classic scenario where he killed a couple pugs and thinks the class is strong. Try solo on magdk without s&b, it’s damn near impossible.

Bsw, Lich, Valkyn. Light 5-1-1, destro/resto, plus 4 years of experience. Already did "solo on magdk without s&b". It's not impossible. Hard, sure. But practise makes perfect. Also, I do suffer from stam warden/sorcs speed builds with immovability. When I feel pressured, I switch to Bloodspawn. Keeps me alive, gives more room for ults. Less direct "bursts" tho. But Battle Roar with a decent up time as well as knowledge of your enemies. Don't fight with a blindfold.

I DO however feel that magDK needs an overall buff. I don't think the stun removal will change anything. As I keep my Petrify up time with there CC immunity downtime. So the stun from power lash is kinda meh tbh.

Onefrkncrzypope

Our passives and damage looks good on paper and no one plays dk on the dev team. You can tell because of how even their Nerf are quite off on the dk. Gilliam complained on the beam gets a job there and it gets fixed. It just no one has an idea to help dk. Plus we tend to be less vocal then all other classes. Sorcs thread is in the thousands and our thread is usually on the second page...

Sorc got a massive buff to deal because of people complaining. While our thread is buried under troll threads and anger threads because of shields.

ZoS thinks tanky is enough and ignores how little our DPS has grown with the power creep. Every class has damage passive but not a dk. Why because ZoS thinks "tanks" shouldn't do damage.

It another patch where temps get buff nightblades gets a slap on the wrists and sorcs get all the attention. The only thing different is wardens were finally mentioned in the patch notes.

I just want to play my main and feel like it's just not try to not die until someone else kills them.... PvP and PvE mantra is the same dks are tanks......

Quick add: If ZoS continues down this path of all class do all roles we will see dks getting pass up as the best tank to... They currently only hold ultity gen and engulfing over wardens. Two things and dks will be worthless in every role

scipionumatia

@Xvorg when you say we are weaker on pts than on live is it because of the AoE mitigation that evade offers now? or is it because sustain has been tossed?

just wanna know what to expect and if I should be planning on playing mag or stam dk next patch.