PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

KaiDynasty

So, in this PTS Update:
-Stamina:
-Improved sustain Issues (which imo wasn't the main problem)
-Problem in mobility -> the only skill class that give a buff on mobility is chains, which has nonsense since mobility should
be an autobuff without the need of a target to get the benefit of it.
-Improved the range of some melee skills (it's a good buff but imo it isn't working as intended since it is influencing also
skills outside of the class kit, mark me as stupid if i say this, i know it's better to keep this buff also for the skills outside of
the kit but they just don't seem legit.
-Magicka:
-Improved damage/healing for PVE (eruption got a nice buff, useless in PVP for the obvious facts --> small aoe, mitigable
by the new effect of evasion).
-Standardized the range of melee skills -> nerfing anyway our main spamming skill by 1 meter, so it's not a buff at all.
-Issue in mobility -> the only skill class that give a buff on mobility is chains, which has nonsense since mobility should
be an autobuff with the need of a target to get the benefit of it.
-Sustain Issues, i mark this as the main problem since it is worst than before. Power last now cost 50% on the second
cast to match the other proc skills (fragemtns and assassin will). We didn't receive any buff to fill the loss of the free cast,
you should really think about adding a secondary effect on any skill/passive to improve the recovery/reduce the cost of
skills.
-Power lash, this skill now match fragments and assassin will about the cost, ok that seem right (but improve sustain to
fix the loss of the free cast, we had already sustain issues, this just make it worst).
Removed the stun on the second cast, has sense, i already knew it it wasn't useful since it could *** up
fossilize/leap combo if i stunned the enemy in the wrong moment with power lash without the intention to do so.
Now here where is the problem, while the other 2 proc skills can be timed, and used when the enemy is vulnerable ->proc
the skill, stun enemy, then use the proc, our power lash need an enemy set off balance first, this means: we need first to
stun them, then use the first whip to proc the second, use the second, in this window of time the enemy can break/roll
dodge/block, so the proc is not reliable to make a burst combo. So you need to change imo this skill proc condition,
example: "You can cast power lash on any enemy stunned, immobilized or off balance, and not only the last one, this will
allow pve players to use power lash as it is (off balance condition), and will allow pvp players to time it up with a stun to get
a decent burst combo). Of course keep the Call down on the proc.
About the sustain issues, if add 10% of magicka recovery as passive, or reduce x% cost of magicka skill as passive it
should help.
Molten weapon? In the last patches you nerfed the heavy attacks damage, this skill morph increased the damage of heavy
attacks by 40% (and give major sorcery), so imo it should be reworked by:
Keep Major sorcery and ADD 1 of these secondary effects - increase heavy attacks damage from 40% to x% to
match the nerf on heavy attacks - add x flame damage on light attacks - or an effect like this "the basic attacks apply a dot
that deal X flame damage every 2 seconds to the target for 10 seconds, this effect can be applied every 10 or more
seconds". It can be purged.
This is my feedback on the class, i focused on magdk because i use him more, so keep the feedback more valuable on the magicka part. @Wrobel please read the feedbacks of the community because players ARE THE GAME.
Sorry for my bad english.

StamWhipCultist

Xvorg wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

if reduced cost in poison skills is an indicator we will get stam whip, I am glad.
Also, volatile armor could deal poison or fire damage instead of magicka, it would have synergy with DK. I hope someone from zos reads this.

Please, stop with the stam whip. It could have been an option six patches ago, now it will be utter crap.

Dodgeable, without a stun, less range. Whip was never a great skill tbh, considering how slow and clunky it is. mDKs were able to use it mainly because of the heal flame lash gave you for free through power lash.

Molten whip is bad (I'm considering that's the morph that will be changed into stamina), it has always been bad (except some months after launch) and on top of that, you have to use magicka base skills to set the enemy off balance, so stamDK won't ever be able to put the enemy off balance through whip unless going S/B and using shield charge. Sure, you can try those magicka based CC like foss or talons, but it would force you to give away another magicka based utility like, mist, wings, hardened, FoO or Igneous.

If you want stamDK to be more or less relevant and with some identity in PvP, ask for something different (stone giant IS the option... a spammable that grants 100% uptime minor brutality will be quite cool). Whip would be apparently cool at the begining, but after some weeks you will realize it does less dmg than flurry, puncture or even reverse slash. If you don't believe me, just try a pelinal's build with everything into weapon dmg and magicka and slot molten whip. The numbers will be quite dissapointing

Please, try to think a bit. I know it might be very hard when you are not used to it, but practice makes perfect.

Stamina whip would have same range as magicka whip - 7 meters. Is that short? Not really.
Who said stamina whip would have same requirements as magicka one? Off balance? Using magicka skills to be able to use stam whip? You misunderstood it all.

First of all, stamina based whip would for sure be some kind of a poison based spammable. With changes to DK passives, it woulb be fairly cheap, and no matter what it would be a step in the right direction - all classes deserve class spammable no matter what resource they use to fuel their attacks. Compared to whip magicka morph noone even uses its a gigantic leap to the good stuff we might get in the future.

Also, compared to dizzying swing that a lot of DKs use atm, whip is easier to land, has no 1.1 sec channel and it will have synergy with sDK way more than any weapon based spammable we are pigeonholed in right now.

John_Falstaff

@KaiDynasty , sustain for stamina is a huge problem, but I'd say the change should come from the direction of racial passives balancing. Sustain is currently at the point where choosing redguard is capable of making or breaking playstyles and severely affects damage output, that's as unhealthy as it gets.

OrphanHelgen

Could you buff molten armaments from 40% heavy attack damage to 60%, and reduce the duration from 40 sec to 20 sec, so it actually would work with the minor brutality buff in a rotation? Right now it's a dps loss to heavy attack with molten armaments active compared to light attack rotations. Only reason to activate molten armaments, is to proc the minor brutality, which will be done way better from either tanks or a mag dk using eruption or igneous shield, or for pvp one of the stuns. Stam dk benefit more from remove this from rotation completely.

Wikter_Bravo

Can we have old battle roar back, instead of a cost reduction.

Toc de Malsvi

Since we have sets that charge your weapon/spell damage based on the amount of ultimate consumed rather than the cost of the ultimate. Why can we not do that with the Battle Roar passive? So we wouldn't get punished for using our ultimate's strategically instead of just on cool down.

Veg

thank god wrobel is still hitting those savage mDK's running rampant killing literally everyone they see instantly. It would be horrible for THAT kind of game play to be unchanged.

Banana

Good eruption change. The rest Im not looking forward to.

Maikon

Quantum_V wrote: »

Hey all!

I'll be focused on taking a lot of feedback from this thread. Personally, I think most of the changes were in the right direction, but weren't changed fully or correctly.

As far as stamDK goes, it's good to see them starting to take small steps towards the right directions. A couple of changes to passives oriented towards stamDKs are welcome and a good indicator that ZoS is working on creating a more complete poisons synergy gameplay for stamDKs. I do feel changes were underwhelming though, few passives and the net evolution of the class isn't enough, still a decent way from giving stamDKs what they really need.

As far as mDK goes, things went both ways. Good change to burning embers range increase, nice changes regarding ash cloud for PvE DDs and healers. Removing powerlash stun is actually significant buff to mDKs, but quickly counteracted by adding a cost to the skill. MDKs are arguably the only class that runs Equilibrium for competitive sustained DPS in PvE and PvP sustain can be very tricky post battleroar nerf. I don't really understand the reasoning for this change as the only argument provided by ZoS was a sketchy magsorc comparison. Both classes behave and play very differently, using that as argumentation to implement a change like that isn't justified.

Our next meeting with ZoS is schedueled for Tuesday next week, lets do our best to test things on PTS before attacking/praising them. Please keep the feedback coming so that we can still promote more and better changes.

Thanks everyone!

If you clearly think that the stun removal from power lash is a huge buff, then you have no business being the class rep.

Veg

Maikon wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Hey all!

I'll be focused on taking a lot of feedback from this thread. Personally, I think most of the changes were in the right direction, but weren't changed fully or correctly.

As far as stamDK goes, it's good to see them starting to take small steps towards the right directions. A couple of changes to passives oriented towards stamDKs are welcome and a good indicator that ZoS is working on creating a more complete poisons synergy gameplay for stamDKs. I do feel changes were underwhelming though, few passives and the net evolution of the class isn't enough, still a decent way from giving stamDKs what they really need.

As far as mDK goes, things went both ways. Good change to burning embers range increase, nice changes regarding ash cloud for PvE DDs and healers. Removing powerlash stun is actually significant buff to mDKs, but quickly counteracted by adding a cost to the skill. MDKs are arguably the only class that runs Equilibrium for competitive sustained DPS in PvE and PvP sustain can be very tricky post battleroar nerf. I don't really understand the reasoning for this change as the only argument provided by ZoS was a sketchy magsorc comparison. Both classes behave and play very differently, using that as argumentation to implement a change like that isn't justified.

Our next meeting with ZoS is schedueled for Tuesday next week, lets do our best to test things on PTS before attacking/praising them. Please keep the feedback coming so that we can still promote more and better changes.

Thanks everyone!

If you clearly think that the stun removal from power lash is a huge buff, then you have no business being the class rep.

It would be if it was still undodgable. More attacks per second is possible when lash doesnt stun and a different ability does. But it's also already a good stun for lining up damage and the devs reasoning was "LMAO *braaaapp* SOME ABILITY FROM ANOTHER CLASS THEREFOR NERF FLAME LASH *dabs*.

NBrookus

Elder Dragon: This passive ability now also increases the range of all instant-cast melee abilities 1 meter per rank, in addition to granting Health Recovery for each Draconic Power ability slotted.

This tooltip doesn't do what it says.

The only changes I can find are:
Lash: 7m (live: 8m)
Embers: 7m (live: 5m)
Reverse Slash: 7m (live: 5m)
Twin Slashes: 7m (live: 5m)

It feels more like the tooltip should read "increases the range of all instant-cast melee abilities 1 meter per rank up to 7m" -- but that should still include Impulse at a minimum.

Stam weapon skill lines have abilities in the 1H skill line which should get an increased range with this passive as written, instead of just the two skills above.

OrphanHelgen

NBrookus wrote: »

Elder Dragon: This passive ability now also increases the range of all instant-cast melee abilities 1 meter per rank, in addition to granting Health Recovery for each Draconic Power ability slotted.

This tooltip doesn't do what it says.

The only changes I can find are:
Lash: 7m (live: 8m)
Embers: 7m (live: 5m)
Reverse Slash: 7m (live: 5m)
Twin Slashes: 7m (live: 5m)

It feels more like the tooltip should read "increases the range of all instant-cast melee abilities 1 meter per rank up to 7m" -- but that should still include Impulse at a minimum.

Stam weapon skill lines have abilities in the 1H skill line which should get an increased range with this passive as written, instead of just the two skills above.

I also think the other morph of steel tornado counts as a melee attack, or atleast it did before. That's also only 5 meter on pts.

Ocelot9x

Maikon wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Hey all!

I'll be focused on taking a lot of feedback from this thread. Personally, I think most of the changes were in the right direction, but weren't changed fully or correctly.

As far as stamDK goes, it's good to see them starting to take small steps towards the right directions. A couple of changes to passives oriented towards stamDKs are welcome and a good indicator that ZoS is working on creating a more complete poisons synergy gameplay for stamDKs. I do feel changes were underwhelming though, few passives and the net evolution of the class isn't enough, still a decent way from giving stamDKs what they really need.

As far as mDK goes, things went both ways. Good change to burning embers range increase, nice changes regarding ash cloud for PvE DDs and healers. Removing powerlash stun is actually significant buff to mDKs, but quickly counteracted by adding a cost to the skill. MDKs are arguably the only class that runs Equilibrium for competitive sustained DPS in PvE and PvP sustain can be very tricky post battleroar nerf. I don't really understand the reasoning for this change as the only argument provided by ZoS was a sketchy magsorc comparison. Both classes behave and play very differently, using that as argumentation to implement a change like that isn't justified.

Our next meeting with ZoS is schedueled for Tuesday next week, lets do our best to test things on PTS before attacking/praising them. Please keep the feedback coming so that we can still promote more and better changes.

Thanks everyone!

If you clearly think that the stun removal from power lash is a huge buff, then you have no business being the class rep.

For a random mag dk is a nerf cause you have no idea what lining a burst means. Giving cc immunity with your spammable means you have no control over the stun, and good players need control to perform at maximum. That’s why every veteran mag dk is excited about this change while pugs complain

BrentBlemish

I feel like to help push the poison playstyle of DK we need more poison morphs. For example, maybe give lava whip a poison morph giving the Stam DKs a decent class spamable or make it a poison morph exicute. DKs do not have a class based exicute. And why is there no stamina morph for stone fist? I always thought it was odd that your throwing rock and it never deals physical damage.

NBrookus

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Elder Dragon: This passive ability now also increases the range of all instant-cast melee abilities 1 meter per rank, in addition to granting Health Recovery for each Draconic Power ability slotted.

This tooltip doesn't do what it says.

The only changes I can find are:
Lash: 7m (live: 8m)
Embers: 7m (live: 5m)
Reverse Slash: 7m (live: 5m)
Twin Slashes: 7m (live: 5m)

It feels more like the tooltip should read "increases the range of all instant-cast melee abilities 1 meter per rank up to 7m" -- but that should still include Impulse at a minimum.

Stam weapon skill lines have abilities in the 1H skill line which should get an increased range with this passive as written, instead of just the two skills above.

I also think the other morph of steel tornado counts as a melee attack, or atleast it did before. That's also only 5 meter on pts.

It probably should, but I think skills with aoe components were excluded? Still doesn't explain the 1H&S skills.

The concept that dragonknights have a longer reach does compliment the idea of a stand your ground playstyle, but if DK melee range is 9m instead of 7 it should be consistent, IMO.

TankHealz2015

TESTED: Orc, Stam DK, Werewolf

I tested in Craglorn with 5 automaton, 5 hulking draugr, and black rose prison: 1 hand & shield (front) and bow (back)


Stam DK with poison morphs feels stronger and I have good sustain. The buff to poison damage is nice. The trapping webs skill does great damage if somebody will hit the synergy (almost 10k poison damage!)

LOVE the increased range of magnum shot (scatter shot morph)!!! wow, 28 meters rocks!

easy to magnum shot (to kick me backwards), then acid spray, then invasion (shield charge), then power slam/heroic slash for free.

difficult to determine how much benefit the bow bleed damage is providing...

the increased range of DK melee skills is sweet, but probably more noticeable (beneficial) in PvP (for the rolly-polly-speedy-go fast players + hit box issues).


My magika DK will probably no longer use the flame lash (the one that heals and use to be free).



When I swapped into 5 automaton, 5 knight errant (heavy, 1 hand & shield bonus damage/healing set) my sustain dropped and i felt it. I need to drop a stamina skill (or two) and slot a magika skill to balance my resources.

Update: I dropped trapping webs (since I was solo) and slotted the healing morph of the Ash Cloud.

I think the healing from Ash cloud plus a heal every time i used a 1h&sh skill was pretty good but not super-good.


I then used Werewolf some more. Will post separately (Werewolf is back baby!!!)



UPDATE: Tested Werewolf

wearing 5 Tormentor set. (in a group). The pounce skill did not proc the taunt. I pounced at several different mobs that were already fighting my groupie-- and it would not taunt or pull aggro. i tried several times on different mobs. no luck.

Yes, i know this had been tested by others previously (other patches) , but I wanted to test again with this new DLC.. just in case a change.

helios777

To all the MagDKs 1vX'ing Wrobel on his stamnb in cyrodiil, please stop and let him kill you. Thats the only way we are gonna get Magdk buffs.

OrphanHelgen

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

TESTED: Orc, Stam DK, Werewolf


Stam DK with poison morphs feels stronger and I have good sustain. The buff to poison damage is nice. The trapping webs skill does great damage if somebody will hit the synergy (almost 10k poison damage!)

What you mean? This sentence doesn't make sense.
DK with poison morphs feel stronger. Does this mean it's first time you try stam dk and previously was mag?
They didnt buff poison damage, what you talking about?
And what have trapping webs to do with all this?

MaxwellC

If you could give us some decent passives & throw in off balance proc on either of the fossilize morphs then we'd be talking but so far not sure what the direction is suppose to be.

Edit: Also lol to that world of ruin change like woah chief that poison cost reduction was really hindering Stam Dks in PvP. Just goes to show we need a veteran PvPer to put forth the ideas (not a veteran forum keyboard PvPer)

Quasaur

Why would you change Power Lash because of a skill that procs differently on a rubbish class (magsorc)?

I want my free Power Lash back. ZOS does know magdk has trouble with sustain, right?

I like more damage to put eruption in line with other aoes and that the skills will all have the same range, but will miss a bit more distance with the whip.

Also, I might be one of the few who uses the light armour shield and I'm not happy about it getting an even longer cast time.

The other changes are meh.

Ragnarock41

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

TESTED: Orc, Stam DK, Werewolf


Stam DK with poison morphs feels stronger and I have good sustain. The buff to poison damage is nice. The trapping webs skill does great damage if somebody will hit the synergy (almost 10k poison damage!)

What you mean? This sentence doesn't make sense.
DK with poison morphs feel stronger. Does this mean it's first time you try stam dk and previously was mag?
They didnt buff poison damage, what you talking about?
And what have trapping webs to do with all this?

I think he is being sarcastic. Can't think of anything else really.

TankHealz2015

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

TESTED: Orc, Stam DK, Werewolf


Stam DK with poison morphs feels stronger and I have good sustain. The buff to poison damage is nice. The trapping webs skill does great damage if somebody will hit the synergy (almost 10k poison damage!)

What you mean? This sentence doesn't make sense.
DK with poison morphs feel stronger. Does this mean it's first time you try stam dk and previously was mag?
They didnt buff poison damage, what you talking about?
And what have trapping webs to do with all this?

I think he is being sarcastic. Can't think of anything else really.

I play Argonian, Stam, DK, Werewolf on live - mostly just open world Cyrodil and occassional IC.

what i meant was that the tester toon i created on PTS seemed to be more powerful and have better sustain than what i am used to on live.

i see the better sustain from the DK passive changes. maybe the enchantments proc-ing more often + the black rose weapons + other factors gave me more dps. i dont know. i set my CP points similar to how they are on live.

i mentioned the trapping webs skill, because i've never seen (on my live toon) a possible synergy damage that high before. so it seemed noteworthy.

this was my perception in PvE group content in Craglorn. i went to several zones and saw only 3 other people (dueling in Rawlaka). so i thought, they might appreciate a few more people actually playing and testing on the PTS.

Suryoyo

Power Lash/Flame lash need something to compensate the cost and range reduction. It needs a buff to the damage or healing but it's just a nerf right now for the sake of making it in line with other classes similar abilities without taking into account dks particularities.

Or increase the magicka (and stamina since after all we'll have to sprint more to get closer to opponents) from combustion passive.

Also what's the reasoning behind the 8m to 7m ? I guess since light armor got a sprint cost reduction passive we'll be able to barely compensate for that (Yes not all DK run chains also) but not all magDK run light armor.

It's not helping at all with our more than mediocre sustain.

Right now it's just better to run destro staff skills, wonderful for a dragonKNIGHT.

kookster

For those who want to know. the elder dragon passives buff the follow skills:
Class Skills:

• Lava Whip: 5 -> 7
• Searing Strikes: 5 -> 7

Two Handed Skills:

• Reverse Slash: 5 -> 7

One Hand and Shield Skills:

• Puncture: 5 -> 7
• Low Slash: 5 -> 7
• Power Bash: 5 -> 7

Dual Wield Skills:

• Twin Slashes: 5 -> 7

Noxji

Read patch notes, test stuff, then provide constructive criticism. Don't flame!

Power lash stun is meh, removal good.
Ash Storm buff, good. Dmg to low on parses.
DK need buffing!

Remove cast time on shields. Keep the other nerfs.

I just rewrote my post... Yes I did.
This is what I said before tho. But shorter version. People seem to not understand my purpose and I jumped in the thread late at night. Sorry for that.

Xvorg

zParallaxz wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Cauterize and eruption both need good secondary effects, phat heals mean little when they are so limited, cauterize being one target every 5s means its naught more than a bursty HoT/Eh BoL hybrid with a crit bonus active on one bar. Eruption is too small for mobile fights and PvE healers overheals anyway so stacking another HoT on top of springs is pointless. The snare is not worth much either due to its size.

15% dodge chance vs the DK in it and another 15% miss to the enemy in it. Lower the healing back. Tadaa, massive buff to stand your ground and DK control whilst having is balanced with the cost/range/immovable aspect of it, and only potent if enemies actually step in it.
Doesn't create any monsters since the current meta tonk is super fast and tanky, so 2 types of survivial, the DK would lose that kitability, and if the target isn't bad, then they will stand outside it, so it'll be no different to a stationary current evasion, so all dots, undodgables etc would ignore and you can pressure them out.

It'd also provide a good unique buff for healers in PvE

ak_pvp wrote: »

Cauterize and eruption both need good secondary effects, phat heals mean little when they are so limited, cauterize being one target every 5s means its naught more than a bursty HoT/Eh BoL hybrid with a crit bonus active on one bar. Eruption is too small for mobile fights and PvE healers overheals anyway so stacking another HoT on top of springs is pointless. The snare is not worth much either due to its size.

15% dodge chance vs the DK in it and another 15% miss to the enemy in it. Lower the healing back. Tadaa, massive buff to stand your ground and DK control whilst having is balanced with the cost/range/immovable aspect of it, and only potent if enemies actually step in it.
Doesn't create any monsters since the current meta tonk is super fast and tanky, so 2 types of survivial, the DK would lose that kitability, and if the target isn't bad, then they will stand outside it, so it'll be no different to a stationary current evasion, so all dots, undodgables etc would ignore and you can pressure them out.

It'd also provide a good unique buff for healers in PvE

You see that’s what I don’t understand, how ****ing hard is to come up with an idea like that for Zos. You have paid employees who keep blowing smoke up peoples butts with the way combat design is. It’s almost like the common person who works for Zos doesn’t play at a higher level than the common high ranked but low skilled, always in a 10+ group zergling.

I've come to think that each developer carries out his own agenda and they are quite fearful of seeing DK become what it used to be in 1.1 1.2 and 1.3

Xvorg

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

if reduced cost in poison skills is an indicator we will get stam whip, I am glad.
Also, volatile armor could deal poison or fire damage instead of magicka, it would have synergy with DK. I hope someone from zos reads this.

Please, stop with the stam whip. It could have been an option six patches ago, now it will be utter crap.

Dodgeable, without a stun, less range. Whip was never a great skill tbh, considering how slow and clunky it is. mDKs were able to use it mainly because of the heal flame lash gave you for free through power lash.

Molten whip is bad (I'm considering that's the morph that will be changed into stamina), it has always been bad (except some months after launch) and on top of that, you have to use magicka base skills to set the enemy off balance, so stamDK won't ever be able to put the enemy off balance through whip unless going S/B and using shield charge. Sure, you can try those magicka based CC like foss or talons, but it would force you to give away another magicka based utility like, mist, wings, hardened, FoO or Igneous.

If you want stamDK to be more or less relevant and with some identity in PvP, ask for something different (stone giant IS the option... a spammable that grants 100% uptime minor brutality will be quite cool). Whip would be apparently cool at the begining, but after some weeks you will realize it does less dmg than flurry, puncture or even reverse slash. If you don't believe me, just try a pelinal's build with everything into weapon dmg and magicka and slot molten whip. The numbers will be quite dissapointing

Please, try to think a bit. I know it might be very hard when you are not used to it, but practice makes perfect.

Stamina whip would have same range as magicka whip - 7 meters. Is that short? Not really.
Who said stamina whip would have same requirements as magicka one? Off balance? Using magicka skills to be able to use stam whip? You misunderstood it all.

First of all, stamina based whip would for sure be some kind of a poison based spammable. With changes to DK passives, it woulb be fairly cheap, and no matter what it would be a step in the right direction - all classes deserve class spammable no matter what resource they use to fuel their attacks. Compared to whip magicka morph noone even uses its a gigantic leap to the good stuff we might get in the future.

Also, compared to dizzying swing that a lot of DKs use atm, whip is easier to land, has no 1.1 sec channel and it will have synergy with sDK way more than any weapon based spammable we are pigeonholed in right now.

Whip doesn't give you anything. The passives that support whip are bad. The recovery in poison status is even weaker than the Battle Rush passive of 2H. No execute like DW passive, no proc... nothing. If whip is relevant for DKs is just because of the heal, nothing more.

That's why I prefer one million times a rework on Stone Giant, making it a melee hard hitting skill. The passives are just there!
Minor brutality, and extra ulti gen on a class that demands ulti gen and that recovers reso the bigger the ulti it casts. Helping hands outclasses WiR recovery by a lot and doesn't work on RGN. And what's even more interesting, you don't lose the bad passives of ardent flame if you use Claw on the combo.

It's a Wet Noodle vs Falcon Punch (or Dragon Punch if you prefer)

Weps

Nothing...Not a damn thing.
Like "Hello?!? Is there anyone out there?"

Ragnarock41

Xvorg wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

if reduced cost in poison skills is an indicator we will get stam whip, I am glad.
Also, volatile armor could deal poison or fire damage instead of magicka, it would have synergy with DK. I hope someone from zos reads this.

Please, stop with the stam whip. It could have been an option six patches ago, now it will be utter crap.

Dodgeable, without a stun, less range. Whip was never a great skill tbh, considering how slow and clunky it is. mDKs were able to use it mainly because of the heal flame lash gave you for free through power lash.

Molten whip is bad (I'm considering that's the morph that will be changed into stamina), it has always been bad (except some months after launch) and on top of that, you have to use magicka base skills to set the enemy off balance, so stamDK won't ever be able to put the enemy off balance through whip unless going S/B and using shield charge. Sure, you can try those magicka based CC like foss or talons, but it would force you to give away another magicka based utility like, mist, wings, hardened, FoO or Igneous.

If you want stamDK to be more or less relevant and with some identity in PvP, ask for something different (stone giant IS the option... a spammable that grants 100% uptime minor brutality will be quite cool). Whip would be apparently cool at the begining, but after some weeks you will realize it does less dmg than flurry, puncture or even reverse slash. If you don't believe me, just try a pelinal's build with everything into weapon dmg and magicka and slot molten whip. The numbers will be quite dissapointing

Please, try to think a bit. I know it might be very hard when you are not used to it, but practice makes perfect.

Stamina whip would have same range as magicka whip - 7 meters. Is that short? Not really.
Who said stamina whip would have same requirements as magicka one? Off balance? Using magicka skills to be able to use stam whip? You misunderstood it all.

First of all, stamina based whip would for sure be some kind of a poison based spammable. With changes to DK passives, it woulb be fairly cheap, and no matter what it would be a step in the right direction - all classes deserve class spammable no matter what resource they use to fuel their attacks. Compared to whip magicka morph noone even uses its a gigantic leap to the good stuff we might get in the future.

Also, compared to dizzying swing that a lot of DKs use atm, whip is easier to land, has no 1.1 sec channel and it will have synergy with sDK way more than any weapon based spammable we are pigeonholed in right now.

Whip doesn't give you anything. The passives that support whip are bad. The recovery in poison status is even weaker than the Battle Rush passive of 2H. No execute like DW passive, no proc... nothing. If whip is relevant for DKs is just because of the heal, nothing more.

That's why I prefer one million times a rework on Stone Giant, making it a melee hard hitting skill. The passives are just there!
Minor brutality, and extra ulti gen on a class that demands ulti gen and that recovers reso the bigger the ulti it casts. Helping hands outclasses WiR recovery by a lot and doesn't work on RGN. And what's even more interesting, you don't lose the bad passives of ardent flame if you use Claw on the combo.

It's a Wet Noodle vs Falcon Punch (or Dragon Punch if you prefer)

I still believe stamfist is the most ridicilous idea ever given for stamina DK. Is this what people call desperation?

Onefrkncrzypope

Wow mind blown such a buff in 4.2.1 lol