PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Templar
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tamrielwinner✭✭✭old spear wall was better. amazing passive, one of the best that templars have, maybe their best.1 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭- Minor Sorcery up to 10% (5% before) - free passive from Bane, Barrage, Purifying Light, whatever you use;
- Minor Protection from any Jabs spam and/or Spear Shards (you can remove Temporal Guard ulti if you use it);
- epic 60% boost to Spear Shards damage;
- Jabs 8% damage boost to closest target. JabJabJabJabJabJab
indeed this is probably the happiest day for Templars since 2014 )1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭tamrielwinner wrote: »old spear wall was better. amazing passive, one of the best that templars have, maybe their best.
I read that as an addition, not a whole sale replacement, is that what it is?0 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, I finally was able to test a bit on PTS.
On first view it looks very good, but i didn't PVP (yet) so I didn't test evasion changes. Adding to it I used one of the new reward of the worthy sets (the one that reduces ability costs by 6%) ... so again I didn't really test cost increases.
However there are a few things I noticed:
1) Changes to restoring focus: Imo changing this ability to have stamina costs was a very good change. Its dead cheap now (with 6% cost reduction it costs ~ 850 stam, i assume less then 1k stam without cost reduction), added stam regen is notable. Adding to it, this really opens the choices for stamplars:
a) one can add dark flare to the rotation to gain empower on LAs
b) In combination with evasion changes ... one may take a closer look at eclypse or the FG shield that returns direct damage to attacker for PVP
2) changes to aedric spear ultimate Imo its not as severe as i thought, the new physical damage ult will deal more damage for stamina users, so the leveling guide needs to be adjusted here.
a) It is a slight nerf to overall damage, but the buff to defence is notable and welcome ... even for a DD. Lets hope its targeting mechanism is more reliable then the targeting mechanism of the other morph.
3) changes to javelline
it! nothing more to say... well exept: If you like the trolling aspect of javeline and don't want to miss it in PVP ... only one morph (the stam morph) was changed to knocking the enemy down and stun him... feel free to use the other morph for trolling. 
4) changes to targeting mechanism in jabs I tried to test, but I did experience lag most of time I used jabs. I was able to move within one jab-channel and targetting worked nicely. However, I am a bit weary about my finding that channeling jabs leaves me unresponsive for most of the channeling time. I am aware this may be due to client-server communication and hence only happen on PTS ... but I can't help it: alarm bells are ringing !
on an unrelated note: dear reps,
I did have a look at the slotable medium armor ability now, but playing DW there is 0 (zero!) reason for me to choose either of the 2 evasion morphs. Both secondary buffs (removal of snares upon skill activation (!) as well as speed buff) just don't justify a skill slot at all. For me, the new major evasion buff is easily utilized via blade cloak (... and evenso its effectiveness was hit hard with the changes to evasion (AOE dmg is reduced even further)), the removal of snares upon activation paired with a proactive defence skill just didn't make sense to begin with. With the changes to evasion its not even worth a second glimpse at the morph -> hence I rather keep the minimal damage from blade cloak to gain major evasion in update 20. Since speed is (hard-)capped and can be pushed via jewellery and potions, the other evasion morph is quite a lackluster as well, imo.
I think both evasion morphs need something actually usefull linked to the primary ability to make them stand a chance vs other skills as well as other armor choices. Please talk about this with the combat team, will you?Edited by Elsterchen on September 18, 2018 10:40AM0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.
Please tell me how juicy it is when you're main tanking in vAS.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
Sun Shield:
I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.
Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill is useless. There is literally 0 reason to even morph it. In fact your group will be better off if you don't.
Useless in what pve?.
Useless anywhere. If stuff is dying all around you, you don't really need it to begin with. And when you do need it, there is nothing to repent. That's the definition of a useless skill and a wasted skill slot.1 -
cazlonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »tamrielwinner wrote: »old spear wall was better. amazing passive, one of the best that templars have, maybe their best.
I read that as an addition, not a whole sale replacement, is that what it is?
Yes, it is a full replacement.
Spear Wall:
When activating an Aedric Spear ability
Gain Minor Protection for 3 seconds, reducing damage taken by 8%.2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »tamrielwinner wrote: »old spear wall was better. amazing passive, one of the best that templars have, maybe their best.
I read that as an addition, not a whole sale replacement, is that what it is?
Yes, it is a full replacement.
Spear Wall:
When activating an Aedric Spear ability
Gain Minor Protection for 3 seconds, reducing damage taken by 8%.
I see. I looked it up and I had the wrong passive in mind, I was thinking about the passive piercing spear, so we trade a unique 15% blocking mit, for a minor buff.0 -
John_1999✭✭✭You should see the whole picture, before you praise ZOS for the Templar changes.
Major Evasion is a huge damage NERF to,
-Puncturing Strikes and the morphs,
-Spear Shards and the morphs,
-Sun Shield and the morphs,
-Radial Sweep and the morphs,
-Nova and the morphs,
-For DB and any kind of AOE Skill.
This is a damage reduction of 25%. Wardens have access to minor and major evasion = 30% damage reduction.
You do completly underestimate this changes.
The change to Piercing Javelin and the morphs takes away uniquenes from the Class.
It is the only Class that do not require a weapon to have a knock back.
They should change the knock back range to 7 Meters imo.
Magicka Templar: Tammi von Tamriel
Stammina Templar: John James Smith
-Current CP: 3601-
-Just a noob in a world full of pro's.-
-There is no bussines like lag bussines-2 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Really pray that the damage from Sweeps "to the nearest enemy" is reworked to not be aoe. I think Templars can live with the aoe dmg reduction from Evasion to others. Not happy about it, and personally I think Evasion should be reduced to 15%. But having our main spammable subject to dmg reduction in a 1v1 / single target hit is just not a good thing.3 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.
Please tell me how juicy it is when you're main tanking in vAS.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
Sun Shield:
I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.
Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill is useless. There is literally 0 reason to even morph it. In fact your group will be better off if you don't.
Useless in what pve?.
Useless anywhere. If stuff is dying all around you, you don't really need it to begin with. And when you do need it, there is nothing to repent. That's the definition of a useless skill and a wasted skill slot.
If you've ever been outnumbered and killed someone; it is not worthless. it refreshes you to fight another target. It was absolutely horrible when another templar could also be in the area spamming in a large battle while you might be the one under pressure even though there are corpses everywhere.
In PVE; I'd assume plenty of trash can be dead while fighting the boss. Not sure where you are at with nothing dead around you other than overland where no effort is necessaryLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »tamrielwinner wrote: »old spear wall was better. amazing passive, one of the best that templars have, maybe their best.
I read that as an addition, not a whole sale replacement, is that what it is?
Yes, it is a full replacement.
Spear Wall:
When activating an Aedric Spear ability
Gain Minor Protection for 3 seconds, reducing damage taken by 8%.
I see. I looked it up and I had the wrong passive in mind, I was thinking about the passive piercing spear, so we trade a unique 15% blocking mit, for a minor buff.
I'm assuming this is intentional to reduce blocking heal bots. Takes their strength and directly gives it to more offensive templars. Problem is on retreating for me but I assume I could block it roll cancel jabs and still get the minor protection. Going to miss minor vitality1 -
GallantGuardian✭✭✭✭Wow all i have to say is wow..
Ok not all i have to say...
First as a templar tank that has struggled for years cause there wasnt much i wanted out of my templar trees this almost brings a tear to my eye...
I love the changes... now I will use both restoring focus to give me stam back and magica steal over the old repentance
That repentance Change back is great
Thank you for listening zos...0 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭
But the duration is too low for this.I'm assuming this is intentional to reduce blocking heal bots. Takes their strength and directly gives it to more offensive templars. Problem is on retreating for me but I assume I could block it roll cancel jabs and still get the minor protection. Going to miss minor vitality
If only we could use blazing shield as defence and retreating...Like in the old times. That would be something veery exciting ^^
With the new shield system i think it is somewhat doable with around 30k health.
Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]0 -
Altyrann✭✭✭✭✭After some PTS time, Crescent Sweep does decent damage but still has problems connecting to targets. Pulsar does more damage than sweeps while being instant cast, doesn't require a target which reduces latency failure, is 360 degrees and applies Minor Mangle.
Was the pulsar result with the new BRP weapon or just the normal version?0 -
Altyrann✭✭✭✭✭Really love the changes, but I think 35% extra cost on radiant destruction is a bit overkill. 5,3k magicka for an execute is a lot of magicka...
Good news - "the damage done has been decreased by approximately 15% and cost by approximately 35%."
It's a decrease, not an increase. Roughly in line with duration reduction to keep cost per second the same.0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.
Please tell me how juicy it is when you're main tanking in vAS.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
Sun Shield:
I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.
Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill is useless. There is literally 0 reason to even morph it. In fact your group will be better off if you don't.
Useless in what pve?.
Useless anywhere. If stuff is dying all around you, you don't really need it to begin with. And when you do need it, there is nothing to repent. That's the definition of a useless skill and a wasted skill slot.
If you've ever been outnumbered and killed someone; it is not worthless. it refreshes you to fight another target. It was absolutely horrible when another templar could also be in the area spamming in a large battle while you might be the one under pressure even though there are corpses everywhere.
In PVE; I'd assume plenty of trash can be dead while fighting the boss. Not sure where you are at with nothing dead around you other than overland where no effort is necessaryLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »tamrielwinner wrote: »old spear wall was better. amazing passive, one of the best that templars have, maybe their best.
I read that as an addition, not a whole sale replacement, is that what it is?
Yes, it is a full replacement.
Spear Wall:
When activating an Aedric Spear ability
Gain Minor Protection for 3 seconds, reducing damage taken by 8%.
I see. I looked it up and I had the wrong passive in mind, I was thinking about the passive piercing spear, so we trade a unique 15% blocking mit, for a minor buff.
I'm assuming this is intentional to reduce blocking heal bots. Takes their strength and directly gives it to more offensive templars. Problem is on retreating for me but I assume I could block it roll cancel jabs and still get the minor protection. Going to miss minor vitality
vAS main tank, vAA axes, vSO, vCR... Pretty much anything you do as a main tank where you can't run around looking for corpses without killing anyone with cleaves and nothing is dying near you. You really don't play the same game if you think there are always corpses around in trials.0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Incoming shameless plugs
These surveys I'm conducting is to help everyone clearly view how the community is reacting to the new changes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/436031/magicka-templar-are-you-satisfied-with-the-new-changes-come-with-update-20#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/436029/stamina-templar-are-you-satisfied-with-the-new-changes-come-with-update-20#latest0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭After some PTS time, Crescent Sweep does decent damage but still has problems connecting to targets. Pulsar does more damage than sweeps while being instant cast, doesn't require a target which reduces latency failure, is 360 degrees and applies Minor Mangle.
Was the pulsar result with the new BRP weapon or just the normal version?
Normal.
The new weapon adds a strong dot, but you have to cast pulsar only every 9 seconds to get the extra damage. I don't see an every 9 second pulsar making it into a PVE rotation (bosses can't be minor mangled anyway) and 9 seconds is forever in melee range in PVP.1 -
Hymzir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well.... I guess majority of people are happy for a chance, but as for me... I'm not so sure. Cautious. Been thinking about the changes and reading what people are posting. And my thoughts have meandered between happy and sad about the upcoming changes.
The thing is, these changes do not happen in a vacuum. Once again the game is getting a total once over. So much is changing, and changing in a drastic fashion that it is difficult to say how these changes will pan out in the end.
The big thing for the patch is obviously shield nerfs. I just can't see how magsorcs could play the way they've been playing for years now with a casting time added to shields. But this is the Templar thread, so I should save my comments on that issue for the sorc thread. But the point here is that those changes are so huge that they're gonna rise sucha ruckus on the forums, that it's gonna be hard to get our voices heard on Templar related changes. Sorc nerfs will be the dominant topic this cycle.
The second biggest thing this patch is the evasion changes. And on the whole am happy with that. Passive dodging should not be a thing in ESO. And while I play several dodge roll monkeys myself, am not too bothered by the nerf to roll dodges either. The fact that I will no longer see all those "mis miss miss" notifications while pew-pewing fleeing stam players with my bow, makes well up for it.
However... The change to evasion has a huge impact on Templar effectiveness in PVP. Templar use a lot of AOE attacks. Our main spammable is an AOE for efs sake.
And that does leave me doubtful about the future, since the biggest issue I have with these changes is, that every non healer Templars is gonna be shoehorned even more tightly into being Mr. MacStabhappy.
Templar are gonna be even more reliant on spamming jabs and nothing but jabs. And that is gonna work splendid in PVE. It's gonna be utterly boring and dull, but it's gonna be effective. But in PVP... That is a different kettle altogether.
And this annoys me extra, since lately I've been playing mostly bow placed builds. And the changes nerf bow style play in favour of more brainless jabbing action. So no... Am not happy with the changes. I suppose am not angry either, which is a big step up from how things usually are after new round of tweaks, but still... Not happy at all.
As for the changes themselves and what I think about them:
Piercing Javelin - Okay I suppose. I will not miss the trolly aspect of the knockback, I seldom even use this thing. It's still way too expensive for what it does, and is reliant on Burning Light to proc to dish out any meaningful damage. And since that proc has it's own cool down, it does not synergize all that well with jabbity-jabbity spam. But at least it wont be counterproductive for melee builds anymore. So there's that at least.
Puncturing Strikes - So a minor damage buff to an already ridiculously weak attack. Cool I suppose, but doubt it will make all that much of a difference. But as with all these overhauls to the base game play, there are other factors to consider, like the boost to weapon damage that Medium armor got. But then again there is that evasion thing that may very well make the whole skill utterly pointless in PVP. In PVE however, this is gonna be a significant increase in effectivenss and there is no real reason not invest fully into jab-spam builds. Now if only there was a stam based Soulshine set...
At least the targeting changes will make this less of a PITA to use. But let's be hones, these changes should've been done years ago. But once they do arrive I can actually engage DK's in melee without them negating my whole class with Talons. So, yay I suppose.
Radial Sweep - Useless Ultimate is still a useless Ultimate. Look, for offense I will use Dawnbreaker on a Stamplar, or any of the several useful non Templar magicka ultimates on a magplar, and for defense I opt for the Shield Ultimate. I suppose if I wanted to use some other melee range spamamble than Jabs, I could use this to proc Burning Light as a Stamplar. But... No I would not. I need to proc Burning Light, and jabbing is the only reliable way to do that as a Stamplar, and thus I will use Dawnbreaker. End of discussion. As a Magplar I can use Shards for my burning light procs and use any of the actually useful non class based magicka ultimates. So... Useless Ultimate is still useless,
Spear Shards - Speaking of shards... Okay this is nice. This is cool. too bad I no longer play magplars all that much, but if things turn out as ugly as I fear they will for Stamplars, I might respec back to magicka once more since this is actually a nice buff, and gives me an option of playing something else than a stab monkey as a magplar.
Spear Wall - And yet another change that funnels us to being serial stabbers. The old passive was utter rubbish, and I've been complaining about it for years. But changing it to something like this is just sad. The only Aedric Spear skill it has any meaningful synergy is Jabs. I guess you could get some mileage out of it with Sun Shield too... but as far as that goes...
Sun Shield - Cool. Whatever. Nice that you fixed a bug I didn't even know about, which is understandable since I haven't used this ability in years. So nice that it' fixed. Now all I need is an actual reason to use the ability itself.
Backlash - A minor nerf, but one I think is reasonable. It is one of the few actually good skills we get from being Templars.
Radiant Destruction - I really don't know how I feel about this change. I haven't used the skill in a long while, ever since it got nerfed to the ground. The buffs it recently got certainly made it appear more often on the battlefield, but I don't have much experience with it's current state, so... Guess we'll see how this turns out when it hits live.
Repentance - Praised be small miracles! It only took you forever and a half to figure out something to be a bad idea that was immediately pointed out the moment you implemented it. I'd still be lot happier to just have proper regen passives so that this thing wouldn't take a slot on my bar, but whatever. It's still a change for the better.
Rune Focus: Reduced the cost to match the Channeled Focus morph.
Restoring Focus (morph): This morph now costs Stamina and grants Stamina to you every second, and no longer gives Minor Vitality and Minor Protection.
Developer Comment:
Minor Protection was moved to the Spear Wall passive to retain the total damage mitigation for tanky Templar playstyles.
Okay... this is the one that gives me the biggest headache. Years ago I suggested exactly this - to make Restoring Focus the Stamina equivalent of Channeled focus. But that was years ago, and the game has changed, our playstyles have evolved, and I frigging preferred Restoring focus on both Magicka and Stamina Templars. And now... you take it away. So yeah, not happy at all.
Especially since you just made the damn thing actually useful in PVP by letting the buffs cling to the caster isntead of staying on the ground.
I will get over the changes, and it's not like it will become a useless skill like so many other Templar abilities. But it will not be the same, it will rob me of my preferred playstyle and will force me to the cookie cutter heavy armor melee jab spammer type brainless playstyle, isntead of the bowplar stuff I've doing for the past year or so.
And it will make Templars even less useful as actual Tanks, and DK's even more preferred in that role.
Look, this skill was the only thing that made Templar tanks viable. They were still less than optimal, but at least this, combined with the unique block bonus from Spear Wall made them a thing. With these changes they will no longer be a thing.
That dev comment highlights the disconnect there seems to be with the devs and actual gameplay. Getting Minor protection from Aedric Spear abilities is useless as a tank. Are you really suggesting that the Templar tank should walk next to the boss and start jabbing the thing? With a tank build? With no damage sets on? Is that really what a Temaplr tank is supposed to do?
The old restoring focus gave you an option to tank as a Templar. And as a tank it didn't even matter all that much that the buffs used to be ground based. After all your job was to plant your posterior next to the boss and aggro it and then block. And block some more after blocking a bit more. Restoring Focus gave you defense buffs and a damage reduction and a healing buff. Now you need to find alternate sources for two of those things. And the stam regen you get from it , while nice, is ultimately meaningless to you as a tank, since your team is supposed to be feeding shards or orbs on a constant stream anyway.
And as for non tanks and their options to have a bit of tankiness in their play style... Well you can kiss all that goodbye. Except for those who go the stabbityjabbitystabstabjab route with their builds. Having the old restoring focus on my backbar as a bowplar, enabled me to run around in full medium, and still have bit of tankiness in my build when I needed. As a templar my mobility sucks but at least I could pop this thing, roll dodge, and get away from dodge. And it made spamming snipes on the keep wall lot less iffy proposition.
....
And do tell me, where the hell am I supposed to get Minor Vitality in the future? Huh?
Sigh.
Anyway, I guess I just need to come up with a completely new build once more. Or go back to magicka, since that thing seems to work and wont force me to be stab-maniac.Edited by Hymzir on September 18, 2018 1:28PM2 -
NobleX35✭✭✭✭Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.
Please tell me how juicy it is when you're main tanking in vAS.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
Sun Shield:
I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.
Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill is useless. There is literally 0 reason to even morph it. In fact your group will be better off if you don't.
Lol you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. In most situations repentance is an amazing skill with amazing sustain potential. It is extremely useful in both PvE and PvP.
1. People are constantly dieing in PvP and being able to repent their corpses brings in massive amounts of extra stamina.
2. Most PvE dungeon bosses have add’s, which means most fights allow templars to repent at least some bodies...again bringing in massive amounts of stamina.
3. Repentance on trash pulls allows you to quickly sustain and move to the next trash pull quickly.
The only time it loses it’s utility is in duel’s and the rare dungeon bosses that have few to no adds like Asylum (though even those bosses have a few adds). If you’re a stamplar and you don’t use repentance...then you’re a fool and you’re missing out on a lot of sustain power.Edited by NobleX35 on September 18, 2018 1:16PM"Only the dead have seen the end of war."2 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think people need to remember that the 25% AoE reduction will only amount to a real world reduction of maybe 20% tops on a medium armour build with no other damage reduction than just the armour mitigation.
Add to that fact that Jabs got an 8% straight up buff to it's damage, and Minor Sorcery got a 5% increase to its buff (which would be at least 2.5% real world) and Templar damage for Sweeps was effectivle buffed by at least 11%.
So that 25% reduction is only going to be 9% reduction compared to live at most and probably less.0 -
reprosal✭✭✭✭✭Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.
Please tell me how juicy it is when you're main tanking in vAS.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
Sun Shield:
I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.
Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill is useless. There is literally 0 reason to even morph it. In fact your group will be better off if you don't.
Lol you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. In most situations repentance is an amazing skill with amazing sustain potential. It is extremely useful in both PvE and PvP.
1. People are constantly dieing in PvP and being able to repent their corpses brings in massive amounts of extra stamina.
2. Most PvE dungeon bosses have add’s, which means most fights allow templars to repent at least some bodies...again bringing in massive amounts of stamina.
3. Repentance on trash pulls allows you to quickly sustain and move to the next trash pull quickly.
The only time it loses it’s utility is in duel’s and the rare dungeon bosses that have few to no adds like Asylum (though even those bosses have a few adds). If you’re a stamplar and you don’t use repentance...then you’re a fool and you’re missing out on a lot of sustain power.
I guess I am a fool too because it is indeed useless for most trial bosses.1 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think people need to remember that the 25% AoE reduction will only amount to a real world reduction of maybe 20% tops on a medium armour build with no other damage reduction than just the armour mitigation.
Add to that fact that Jabs got an 8% straight up buff to it's damage, and Minor Sorcery got a 5% increase to its buff (which would be at least 2.5% real world) and Templar damage for Sweeps was effectivle buffed by at least 11%.
So that 25% reduction is only going to be 9% reduction compared to live at most and probably less.
? Wut ?
That 25% reduction is best used in PVP ... you know the place where one anyways only hits for 50% . Obviously mitigation of damage IS still active ... and i feel changing to heavy armor is the best I can do (i suppose I am not the only DWer with this line of thinking ) -> effectively increasing my damage mitigation and beeing able to utilize 25% AOE damage reduction via blade cloak. The changes to evasion funnel this change... and , because of them, I most probably won't use jabs in PVP, too.0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm on console, so I am not permitted to use the PTS, but here are some thoughts (as an FYI, my only templar is my artificer, who is specced as a stamina tank and can also be a decent damage dealer with some gear switching):
- I'm really sad about Binding Javelin no longer having knockback. That was my favorite thing about the ability and made him giggle maniacally like the mad artificer he is whenever he'd use it. Knockback just isn't as "BAM," you know?
- I never noticed the issues with Puncturing Strikes, but I also never take him into PvP. If this helps those who PvP, I can see this being a needed change.
- I'm really excited about the change to Radial Sweep because it was a nice ability to complement his tanking but always felt lackluster because it did magic damage. He'll now be able to use this as a DD ability as well. Thanks, devs!
- I have not trained him in Spear Shards because he is a stamina build, but with the damage increase he might learn this ability given the utility it could provide to his allies combined with the better damage.
- I have mixed feelings about Spear Wall, leaning towards negative. He will no longer have a 15% block mitigation all the time and has to be aggressive in order to get minor protection. He can't afford to be burning stamina like that all the time to keep minor protection up; the duration is way too short. Duration needs to be at least doubled from what it is.
- I'm not yet sure how changes to shields will make Sun Shield play out. I'm thinking it will be a net positive, since his resists are so high his small shields might actually last longer.
- He doesn't really use Dawn's Wrath abilities except the occasional backlash. No comment on these changes.
- I don't notice many others really running Repentance in dungeons or in overland so this change will not impact him much, but in the rare instances where someone else does run that skill, it will be useful.
- I'm skeptical about the Restoring Focus change. I don't like that it costs stamina instead of magicka. His stamina pool is strained as it is, and I would rather it stay costing magicka so that resource pool is used for something. I also don't like the removal of protection because of how it is being implemented in Spear Wall. Will these negatives be made up for with the stamina recovery? I don't know - I can't PTS.
Overall, I'm most concerned about the changes to Spear Wall and Restoring Focus. He got an amazing buff to resistance last patch, but this overall feels like a decrease in his ability to mitigate damage.1 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »I think people need to remember that the 25% AoE reduction will only amount to a real world reduction of maybe 20% tops on a medium armour build with no other damage reduction than just the armour mitigation.
Add to that fact that Jabs got an 8% straight up buff to it's damage, and Minor Sorcery got a 5% increase to its buff (which would be at least 2.5% real world) and Templar damage for Sweeps was effectivle buffed by at least 11%.
So that 25% reduction is only going to be 9% reduction compared to live at most and probably less.
? Wut ?
That 25% reduction is best used in PVP ... you know the place where one anyways only hits for 50% . Obviously mitigation of damage IS still active ... and i feel changing to heavy armor is the best I can do (i suppose I am not the only DWer with this line of thinking ) -> effectively increasing my damage mitigation and beeing able to utilize 25% AOE damage reduction via blade cloak. The changes to evasion funnel this change... and , because of them, I most probably won't use jabs in PVP, too.
Because damage reductions are multiplicative with each other. The more you add the less each is worth.1 -
Volckodav✭✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Everyone seems to miss that the new Evasion changes are a kick in the teeth for Stamplars. 25% AoE reduction that a lot of people will be rocking hurts Jabs way too much. And if it stacks with Leki's... 15% AoE reduction is plenty, all Templars have a vested interest in seeing the new Major Evasion amount reduced as much as possible.
Excuse my question as I still a noob in templar world, but why jabs is consider as an aoe?? this is 4 spears, what can be more direct than that?
shards I understand why it will be affected by new evasion but jabs??0 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elsterchen wrote: »I think people need to remember that the 25% AoE reduction will only amount to a real world reduction of maybe 20% tops on a medium armour build with no other damage reduction than just the armour mitigation.
Add to that fact that Jabs got an 8% straight up buff to it's damage, and Minor Sorcery got a 5% increase to its buff (which would be at least 2.5% real world) and Templar damage for Sweeps was effectivle buffed by at least 11%.
So that 25% reduction is only going to be 9% reduction compared to live at most and probably less.
? Wut ?
That 25% reduction is best used in PVP ... you know the place where one anyways only hits for 50% . Obviously mitigation of damage IS still active ... and i feel changing to heavy armor is the best I can do (i suppose I am not the only DWer with this line of thinking ) -> effectively increasing my damage mitigation and beeing able to utilize 25% AOE damage reduction via blade cloak. The changes to evasion funnel this change... and , because of them, I most probably won't use jabs in PVP, too.
Because damage reductions are multiplicative with each other. The more you add the less each is worth.
But multiplication only applies for the same type ? In effect jabs get hit by 50% damage reduction due to battle scaling (as always), the remaining 50% then may get hit by the 25% damage reduction due to evasion and after that, the pitifull remaining 25% damage is going to be migitated (... if lucky by a heavy armor wearer at resistance hard cap migitating another 25% (or was that 30?) ...(in other words: someone like me when update 20 hits (DW/heavy armour)).
Sure effectively we will only see a 12,5% damage reduction (compared to PVE) due to evasion changes...but you have to explain to me which PVE mob you would expect to use evasion in order to actually make such a comparison in the first place....
Effectively evasion will hit templars jabs in PVP ONLY... and here it will create a damage loss. There is no viewpoint to make this look better.Edited by Elsterchen on September 18, 2018 2:22PM1 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.
Please tell me how juicy it is when you're main tanking in vAS.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
Sun Shield:
I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.
Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill is useless. There is literally 0 reason to even morph it. In fact your group will be better off if you don't.
Useless in what pve?.
Useless anywhere. If stuff is dying all around you, you don't really need it to begin with. And when you do need it, there is nothing to repent. That's the definition of a useless skill and a wasted skill slot.
You probably don’t pvp. I don’t know how many times this skill has saved me when I was starving for resources because multiple people was beating on me. Or getting a well timed repent in a bgs match.
The problem with repent was the fact it was stamplars only sustain option and as a result many relied on using bone pirate. Plus zos made it so only one stamplar can repent. Now stamplars have passive regen and still can make use of repentance.
Stamplars that play small scale just got a lot better.
2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »I think people need to remember that the 25% AoE reduction will only amount to a real world reduction of maybe 20% tops on a medium armour build with no other damage reduction than just the armour mitigation.
Add to that fact that Jabs got an 8% straight up buff to it's damage, and Minor Sorcery got a 5% increase to its buff (which would be at least 2.5% real world) and Templar damage for Sweeps was effectivle buffed by at least 11%.
So that 25% reduction is only going to be 9% reduction compared to live at most and probably less.
? Wut ?
That 25% reduction is best used in PVP ... you know the place where one anyways only hits for 50% . Obviously mitigation of damage IS still active ... and i feel changing to heavy armor is the best I can do (i suppose I am not the only DWer with this line of thinking ) -> effectively increasing my damage mitigation and beeing able to utilize 25% AOE damage reduction via blade cloak. The changes to evasion funnel this change... and , because of them, I most probably won't use jabs in PVP, too.
Because damage reductions are multiplicative with each other. The more you add the less each is worth.
But multiplication only applies for the same type ? In effect jabs get hit by 50% damage reduction due to battle scaling (as always), the remaining 50% then may get hit by the 25% damage reduction due to evasion and after that, the pitifull remaining 25% damage is going to be migitated (... if lucky by a heavy armor wearer at resistance hard cap migitating another 25% (or was that 30?) ...(in other words: someone like me when update 20 hits (DW/heavy armour)).
Sure effectively we will only see a 12,5% damage reduction (compared to PVE) due to evasion changes... but I just can't forget the fact that battlescaling reduces my damage by a flat 50%, too and that my target will migitate another chunk of damage after the damage was again reduced by evasion. And currently I am out of the appropiate beverage to rejoice at the thought that the mere numbers in PVP are halved for both: the damage reduction as well as the added damage... maybe i am a pessimist but hitting for less isn#t something to make me smile.
evasion change alone counts for a 1k reduction. And we still potentially have the red tree scaling bugs with this spell.
ZOS needs to go back to the drawing board with evasion in a way (or figure out how to redo jabs so its closest hit becomes direct dmg which is how most templars were buffing their jabs anyway for maximizing burning light procs).
Here is my current feedback:
- evasion nerfs jabs over 1k even after the 8% buff.
- templar have no answer for the 3% Champion Point crit chance nerf (everyone doesnt, we have to slot a nightblade lol).
- minor vitality is a crazy nerf if our main spamable continues to take a hit with evasion. They should add vitality back into the kit, or make our mending passive global so all of our heals can deal extra health on low health targets. We need both templar specs to reach 25% to make up for the missing major mending.
- crescent sweep bug forcing scalling off physical penetration.
- crescent/empowering sweeps hitbox is still too small to be an effective ultimate. Also evasion change impacts our main ultimate now.
- haven't tested if burning light cooldown was adjusted. If it still only impacts one enemy for each cooldown, then the changes above are mega nerf. If the cooldown lets us hit multiple targets with burning light, then I might be able to accept the evasion change.
- restoring rune was a long time coming. happy templar tanks are able to get their stamina regen during block!
- minor protection buff is too low for the conditions required. make it match empowering sweeps 6s major protection buff and 6seconds radiant ward/blazing shield duration.
- blazing shield damage nerfed by armor reducing the incoming damage (lol).
Our last pain points still apply however:
- no AOE control
- healing "boring" (and other classes now have interesting utility/heals spells)
- eclipse/total dark grants cc imunity without additional penalities when target breaks free
- jabs being reduced by both ironclad/thick skin when it should be just thick skin. (highlighting this because ZOS needed to address it 3 patches ago lol)
- stamplar lost access to healing passives making it feel worse than magplar. Stamplar crutches on bleeds as well which other classes use better on certain builds.
- no defense/escape mechanic that translates across multiple targets without spending stamina (for example, wardens shimmering shield, nightblade shade, DK's wings, and sorcs streak)
- purge still suffers from too many debuffs that are more easily applied.
Edited by Minno on September 18, 2018 2:19PMMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual3 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ColoredScreams wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »ColoredScreams wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »ColoredScreams wrote: »I have concerns.
For perspective, I play stamina templar in PvP. I welcome the repentance change but stamplars in PvP will no longer have a reliable uptime on minor protection (and minor vitality) as they did before. 8% damage mitigation is huge.
In PvP, stamplars are not exclusively casting Biting Jabs on cooldown, ever. They are sprinting, rolling, healing, applying bleeds, casting shuffle what feels like every 3 seconds to stay out of roots, purging, reapplying buffs, dots, and hots, ulting, repenting, getting into melee range, moving to line of sight etc... therefore having 3 seconds of minor protection tied directly to a 1.1 second channeled ability and Javelin, which is a blockable and dodgeable low damage stun that not all stamina templars use, will inevitably result in very poor uptime for minor protection (and less importantly minor vitality) on stamplar, as opposed to how it is now: near 100% with restoring focus. I understand restoring focus now restores some stamina, but it also now costs stamina. Even if there is a small over all net increase over 20 seconds of stamina gained you will have to directly use that gained stamina for expensive defensive abilities, such as rolling or vigor, just to try to make up for the loss of reliable minor protection and minor vitality. The restoring focus change is not a buff to stamina templars, players will realize that sustain is equally as difficult as the previous patches because they are taking 8% more damage and receiving 8% less healing for the majority of the fight.Spear Wall: This ability now grants you Minor Protection for 1.5/3 seconds after activating an Aedric Spear ability.
Please allow stamina templar to have reliable access to minor protection. My suggestions would be to leave it on restoring focus but remove minor vitality, or increase the duration granted from the passive significantly, at least 10 seconds from 3 seconds, so it is more in line with the previous patches uptime. Stamplars will not jab when they need to play defensive.
Now let's talk about something equally as relevant: Jabs doing 25% less damage to major evasion and 5% less damage to minor evasion. The new changes make evasion very easily accessible to nearly every class in the game. It is now attainable through sets (including sets like gossamer that grant multiple targets major evasion), weapon skills, class skills, and an armor skill. I am aware that there was an 8% damage increase to jabs (although only to the one closest target), but this will lead to an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs. Please reconsider just an 8% damage increase, the ability already does so little damage to other targets that are not the primary target. My suggestion is to increase the damage it does to all other targets that are NOT the closet enemy by a notable amount in addition to an overall damage buff to the skill. This may still yield an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs against targets that have access to evasion (which is now very easily accessible), but it brings stamina templars overall damage more in line with previous patches and provides an important role for this classes signature ability.
Note: I do not think the rotation changes to jabs will be nearly enough. Most stamina templar will already be facing towards the enemy when jabbing, if you get rooted while jabbing, the majority of the time the remainder of the jabs will land directionally until they are outranged ("kited") by an enemy who is walking back. The issue with jabs vs roots is not about direction, it is about melee range. If jabs granted a brief amount of snare immunity, for example 2-3 seconds, this will be less of an issue.
If the changes for stamina templar remain the same, Murkmire will be an overall nerf to stamplars defense, healing, and damage as well as sustain because the stamina restored from restoring focus will have to directly be used try and make up for these new significant losses.
-@inscentia " Kiri "
I don't agree have the same concerns you have but this is a tremendous post.
what part(s) don't you agree with?
I, personally, feel that a lot of the internal comparison here is being stacked against the other stamina classes vice looking at the class objectively within a vacuum and how it approaches specific situations.
AOE damage, to include jabs being undodgeable, is wholly destructive to medium armor that cannot reliably get away from them with the aid of a mobility escape especially in lieu of jabs new targeting. Medium armor was tremendously weak versus jabs (and any AOE damage for that matter) so getting some much needed passive resistance to AOE damage to damage that medium armor cannot otherwise mitigate affords medium some much needed EHP.
The removal of Minor Vitality and implementation of stamina sustain is IMO a moot discussion. Paired with new repentance, I am of the opinion that the gigantic sustain increase of Stamplar can allow it to have a more aggressive build, making up for the loss in healing in gains made with wep dmg/stam/crit/resists/hp. I personally value the double repentance heal dipping & sustain increase to be a net buff.
The uptime on Minor Prot is an overall nerf, but it's available when it's needed - when jabbing relentlessly. DW setups which have a longer gap in between jabs than a 2H build will see an offensive nerf in their defensive capabilities whereas 2H will likely maintain it's aggressive posture. The gain to cheap Major Protection that can last 6-12 seconds depending on your situation is waaaaaaaay too good and IMO cannot be ignored.
IMO the trade offs, whilst a bit jarring on paper, do not appear to be anything that cannot be built around by gearing.
The issue is a lot bigger than Jabs vs Medium armor. It is Jabs vs Major Evasion, which is accessible by not just medium armor users through class skills, weapon skills, item sets (some give evasion to multiple targets), and of course - shuffle. Additionally, medium armor users have always had the option to run a defensive set, traits, or HP's without sacrificing much damage. For example, I personally run impregnable armor in medium, the 2/3/4 piece are fantastic, all essential stats for a damage oriented templar, and the 5th piece (2500 crit resist) makes me tankier than a heavy armor user. On top of that i now also have major evasion, 25% damage mitigation to AoE including jabs. I only lose about 300-400 weapon damage for running a defensive set, since the 2/3/4 piece are not useless for damage. That's only about 700 damage on a dawnbreaker tooltip (half that in PvP). Of course impreg is not the only defensive route a medium armor player can take, there are endless ways to sacrifice very minuscule amounts of damage for so much more tankiness and survivability . If a medium armor user is "tremendously weak" vs jabs, that is because the user did not build smartly, but rather a glass cannon. And, again, medium armor users do not exclusively having access to major evasion.
Additionally minor protection is not available when it's needed, it is also needed when healing, kiting, applying buffs, closing distance and taking all that ranged damage etc.. like how minor protection works now. I do not jab when I'm kiting away from a zerg towards line of sight, i do not jab on my back bar purging the 8 debuffs the enemy applied to me, i need to rally and reapply hots, not Jab the enemy.
@ColoredScreams
It's important to note that I am looking at how Stamina Templar is reacted to in a vacuum. There are certainly issues with how certain classes/loadouts approach Stamina Templar (HA bleed nightblade for instance, which will surge in popularity because huge buffs) that are inherently imbalanced against the Templar - but I find that more of a function of the class mechanics of those specific classes/loadouts than I do as an inherent fault with the Stamina Templar.
Opinions as to where further balancing should go may vary
0331
06020 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.
Please tell me how juicy it is when you're main tanking in vAS.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Repentance:
Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.
Sun Shield:
I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.
Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill is useless. There is literally 0 reason to even morph it. In fact your group will be better off if you don't.
Lol you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. In most situations repentance is an amazing skill with amazing sustain potential. It is extremely useful in both PvE and PvP.
1. People are constantly dieing in PvP and being able to repent their corpses brings in massive amounts of extra stamina.
2. Most PvE dungeon bosses have add’s, which means most fights allow templars to repent at least some bodies...again bringing in massive amounts of stamina.
3. Repentance on trash pulls allows you to quickly sustain and move to the next trash pull quickly.
The only time it loses it’s utility is in duel’s and the rare dungeon bosses that have few to no adds like Asylum (though even those bosses have a few adds). If you’re a stamplar and you don’t use repentance...then you’re a fool and you’re missing out on a lot of sustain power.
Trash pulls aren't exactly where a tank dies if he has no stamina. If you're tanking WITH it you're a fool and you'd be better off slotting literally anything else. Even Sun Shield looks better now that it benefits from resistances (even though it's still pretty bad). If you can't sustain without it, you're useless anywhere else outside of very specific fights. And if you can, you don't need it anyways, so why slot it? So essentially anyone using it is a bad player because they are either useless in half the trial fights, or they could use something that would help them much more than repentance.
You really haven't done a lot of tanking if you think this skill is any help at all.1