PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Templar

  • ColoredScreams
    ColoredScreams
    ✭✭✭
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    I have concerns.
    For perspective, I play stamina templar in PvP. I welcome the repentance change but stamplars in PvP will no longer have a reliable uptime on minor protection (and minor vitality) as they did before. 8% damage mitigation is huge.
    Spear Wall: This ability now grants you Minor Protection for 1.5/3 seconds after activating an Aedric Spear ability.
    In PvP, stamplars are not exclusively casting Biting Jabs on cooldown, ever. They are sprinting, rolling, healing, applying bleeds, casting shuffle what feels like every 3 seconds to stay out of roots, purging, reapplying buffs, dots, and hots, ulting, repenting, getting into melee range, moving to line of sight etc... therefore having 3 seconds of minor protection tied directly to a 1.1 second channeled ability and Javelin, which is a blockable and dodgeable low damage stun that not all stamina templars use, will inevitably result in very poor uptime for minor protection (and less importantly minor vitality) on stamplar, as opposed to how it is now: near 100% with restoring focus. I understand restoring focus now restores some stamina, but it also now costs stamina. Even if there is a small over all net increase over 20 seconds of stamina gained you will have to directly use that gained stamina for expensive defensive abilities, such as rolling or vigor, just to try to make up for the loss of reliable minor protection and minor vitality. The restoring focus change is not a buff to stamina templars, players will realize that sustain is equally as difficult as the previous patches because they are taking 8% more damage and receiving 8% less healing for the majority of the fight.
    Please allow stamina templar to have reliable access to minor protection. My suggestions would be to leave it on restoring focus but remove minor vitality, or increase the duration granted from the passive significantly, at least 10 seconds from 3 seconds, so it is more in line with the previous patches uptime. Stamplars will not jab when they need to play defensive.
    Now let's talk about something equally as relevant: Jabs doing 25% less damage to major evasion and 5% less damage to minor evasion. The new changes make evasion very easily accessible to nearly every class in the game. It is now attainable through sets (including sets like gossamer that grant multiple targets major evasion), weapon skills, class skills, and an armor skill. I am aware that there was an 8% damage increase to jabs (although only to the one closest target), but this will lead to an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs. Please reconsider just an 8% damage increase, the ability already does so little damage to other targets that are not the primary target. My suggestion is to increase the damage it does to all other targets that are NOT the closet enemy by a notable amount in addition to an overall damage buff to the skill. This may still yield an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs against targets that have access to evasion (which is now very easily accessible), but it brings stamina templars overall damage more in line with previous patches and provides an important role for this classes signature ability.
    Note: I do not think the rotation changes to jabs will be nearly enough. Most stamina templar will already be facing towards the enemy when jabbing, if you get rooted while jabbing, the majority of the time the remainder of the jabs will land directionally until they are outranged ("kited") by an enemy who is walking back. The issue with jabs vs roots is not about direction, it is about melee range. If jabs granted a brief amount of snare immunity, for example 2-3 seconds, this will be less of an issue.
    If the changes for stamina templar remain the same, Murkmire will be an overall nerf to stamplars defense, healing, and damage as well as sustain because the stamina restored from restoring focus will have to directly be used try and make up for these new significant losses.

    -@inscentia " Kiri "

    I don't agree have the same concerns you have but this is a tremendous post.

    what part(s) don't you agree with?
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    There’s some really good changes this patch but the major evasion change is way too strong vs sweep/jab users.

    Think stamplar will be god tier next patch against anyone not running evasion. Restoring focus and empowering sweep is looking good. I already back barred it on my stamplar as a defense ult.
    Edited by CatchMeTrolling on September 17, 2018 11:45PM
  • Godspeed
    Godspeed
    ✭✭✭
    Just checked for myself. Radiant oppression ticks 3 times now.
  • technohic
    technohic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    There’s some really good changes this patch but the major evasion change is way too strong for sweep/jab users.

    Think stamplar will be god tier next patch against anyone not running evasion. Restoring focus and empowering sweep is looking good. I already back barred it on my stamplar as a defense ult.

    With spin-to-win being a thing, I think we'll see more people finding a spot for evasion. Im trying to figure out a spot for it on my stamplar. Not a fan of shuffle as its expensive and Gets a bit redundant with FM which does a better job. Might finally run dual wield now. If that stam set goes live, and I run it with Cyrodiils ward, then get some dual wield axes going; it will be a bleed build going on and the targets are not going to be able to heal.
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    technohic wrote: »
    There’s some really good changes this patch but the major evasion change is way too strong for sweep/jab users.

    Think stamplar will be god tier next patch against anyone not running evasion. Restoring focus and empowering sweep is looking good. I already back barred it on my stamplar as a defense ult.

    With spin-to-win being a thing, I think we'll see more people finding a spot for evasion. Im trying to figure out a spot for it on my stamplar. Not a fan of shuffle as its expensive and Gets a bit redundant with FM which does a better job. Might finally run dual wield now. If that stam set goes live, and I run it with Cyrodiils ward, then get some dual wield axes going; it will be a bleed build going on and the targets are not going to be able to heal.

    It prefer the dodge chance. But I’m sure pretty much everyone that can run it will use the new evasion. Which will really suck for melee Templars.

    I did see that new set, I wonder how good it’ll be. Should be decent on defile plus dot builds.
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    based on Kiri's post:
    - restoring rune could cost mag to let stamplar have another mag dump.
    - minor protection duration should have 6 seconds to match empowering sweeps major protection duration. Or grant the minor protection on dmg or grant 6-8 seconds on blocks, etc. Something to globalize the passive to increase the uptime.
    - jabs closest hit to be recoded to direct dmg so we can fix both the evasion change and the long standing "thick skin + ironclad reducing jabs damage" bug.
    - reduce cost of sun shield by alot (or remove shields from battlespirit debuff).

    Otherwise some things im excited to try.

    Also, if you missed fengrush's stream, he tested jabs while rooted; you can target jabs using your mouse ALOT more reliably now.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    I have concerns.
    For perspective, I play stamina templar in PvP. I welcome the repentance change but stamplars in PvP will no longer have a reliable uptime on minor protection (and minor vitality) as they did before. 8% damage mitigation is huge.
    Spear Wall: This ability now grants you Minor Protection for 1.5/3 seconds after activating an Aedric Spear ability.
    In PvP, stamplars are not exclusively casting Biting Jabs on cooldown, ever. They are sprinting, rolling, healing, applying bleeds, casting shuffle what feels like every 3 seconds to stay out of roots, purging, reapplying buffs, dots, and hots, ulting, repenting, getting into melee range, moving to line of sight etc... therefore having 3 seconds of minor protection tied directly to a 1.1 second channeled ability and Javelin, which is a blockable and dodgeable low damage stun that not all stamina templars use, will inevitably result in very poor uptime for minor protection (and less importantly minor vitality) on stamplar, as opposed to how it is now: near 100% with restoring focus. I understand restoring focus now restores some stamina, but it also now costs stamina. Even if there is a small over all net increase over 20 seconds of stamina gained you will have to directly use that gained stamina for expensive defensive abilities, such as rolling or vigor, just to try to make up for the loss of reliable minor protection and minor vitality. The restoring focus change is not a buff to stamina templars, players will realize that sustain is equally as difficult as the previous patches because they are taking 8% more damage and receiving 8% less healing for the majority of the fight.
    Please allow stamina templar to have reliable access to minor protection. My suggestions would be to leave it on restoring focus but remove minor vitality, or increase the duration granted from the passive significantly, at least 10 seconds from 3 seconds, so it is more in line with the previous patches uptime. Stamplars will not jab when they need to play defensive.
    Now let's talk about something equally as relevant: Jabs doing 25% less damage to major evasion and 5% less damage to minor evasion. The new changes make evasion very easily accessible to nearly every class in the game. It is now attainable through sets (including sets like gossamer that grant multiple targets major evasion), weapon skills, class skills, and an armor skill. I am aware that there was an 8% damage increase to jabs (although only to the one closest target), but this will lead to an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs. Please reconsider just an 8% damage increase, the ability already does so little damage to other targets that are not the primary target. My suggestion is to increase the damage it does to all other targets that are NOT the closet enemy by a notable amount in addition to an overall damage buff to the skill. This may still yield an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs against targets that have access to evasion (which is now very easily accessible), but it brings stamina templars overall damage more in line with previous patches and provides an important role for this classes signature ability.
    Note: I do not think the rotation changes to jabs will be nearly enough. Most stamina templar will already be facing towards the enemy when jabbing, if you get rooted while jabbing, the majority of the time the remainder of the jabs will land directionally until they are outranged ("kited") by an enemy who is walking back. The issue with jabs vs roots is not about direction, it is about melee range. If jabs granted a brief amount of snare immunity, for example 2-3 seconds, this will be less of an issue.
    If the changes for stamina templar remain the same, Murkmire will be an overall nerf to stamplars defense, healing, and damage as well as sustain because the stamina restored from restoring focus will have to directly be used try and make up for these new significant losses.

    -@inscentia " Kiri "

    I don't agree have the same concerns you have but this is a tremendous post.

    what part(s) don't you agree with?

    I, personally, feel that a lot of the internal comparison here is being stacked against the other stamina classes vice looking at the class objectively within a vacuum and how it approaches specific situations.

    AOE damage, to include jabs being undodgeable, is wholly destructive to medium armor that cannot reliably get away from them with the aid of a mobility escape especially in lieu of jabs new targeting. Medium armor was tremendously weak versus jabs (and any AOE damage for that matter) so getting some much needed passive resistance to AOE damage to damage that medium armor cannot otherwise mitigate affords medium some much needed EHP.

    The removal of Minor Vitality and implementation of stamina sustain is IMO a moot discussion. Paired with new repentance, I am of the opinion that the gigantic sustain increase of Stamplar can allow it to have a more aggressive build, making up for the loss in healing in gains made with wep dmg/stam/crit/resists/hp. I personally value the double repentance heal dipping & sustain increase to be a net buff.

    The uptime on Minor Prot is an overall nerf, but it's available when it's needed - when jabbing relentlessly. DW setups which have a longer gap in between jabs than a 2H build will see an offensive nerf in their defensive capabilities whereas 2H will likely maintain it's aggressive posture. The gain to cheap Major Protection that can last 6-12 seconds depending on your situation is waaaaaaaay too good and IMO cannot be ignored.

    IMO the trade offs, whilst a bit jarring on paper, do not appear to be anything that cannot be built around by gearing.
    0331
    0602
  • Drdeath20
    Drdeath20
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow! My socks are blown off. Great job
  • _Salty_
    _Salty_
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Get ready for a flood of stamplars. They got a huge buff this patch.
    Psn l---Salty---l

    Patiently waiting to make a Stankcromancer.
  • templesus
    templesus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I’m trying to find any reason to run empowering over resto ult with the new blackrose resto....can’t find one
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
    Yolokin_Swagonborn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't celebrate too soon. This looks far too good to last. Also if Bshield ends up with a cast time on it, its going to completely demotivate me to try all the builds running through my mind right now.
    Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on September 18, 2018 12:11AM
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't celebrate too soon. This looks far too good to last. Also if Bshield ends up with a cast time on it, its going to completely demotivate me to try all the builds running through my mind right now.

    It shouldn't, they never mentioned all shield will get the cast time just sorc and LA.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Solariken
    Solariken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    I'm in love with the changes to Templar. A+ job.

    The only minor complaint so far is that Resto Focus now costs stamina - it's unnecessary and completely ridiculous logically that this skill would cost stamina. It should cost magicka.

    I really really like that the Evasion buff now soft-counters typical Templar/storc/Warden PvP builds. The PTS changes overall seem to lend more to a single-target combat style and less to a PBAOE style that just lets players spam AoEs and get kills (looking at you Steel Tardnado, SubAss, DBoS, Jabs...)

    I also love that Radiant Destruction has been made more efficient and that you can actually kind of use jabs while rooted. And a Repentance feast for all the 'plars! Mmmm

    Edited by Solariken on September 18, 2018 1:23AM
  • WreckfulAbandon
    WreckfulAbandon
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    usmcjdking wrote: »

    I, personally, feel that a lot of the internal comparison here is being stacked against the other stamina classes vice looking at the class objectively within a vacuum and how it approaches specific situations.

    AOE damage, to include jabs being undodgeable, is wholly destructive to medium armor that cannot reliably get away from them with the aid of a mobility escape especially in lieu of jabs new targeting. Medium armor was tremendously weak versus jabs (and any AOE damage for that matter) so getting some much needed passive resistance to AOE damage to damage that medium armor cannot otherwise mitigate affords medium some much needed EHP.

    The removal of Minor Vitality and implementation of stamina sustain is IMO a moot discussion. Paired with new repentance, I am of the opinion that the gigantic sustain increase of Stamplar can allow it to have a more aggressive build, making up for the loss in healing in gains made with wep dmg/stam/crit/resists/hp. I personally value the double repentance heal dipping & sustain increase to be a net buff.

    The uptime on Minor Prot is an overall nerf, but it's available when it's needed - when jabbing relentlessly. DW setups which have a longer gap in between jabs than a 2H build will see an offensive nerf in their defensive capabilities whereas 2H will likely maintain it's aggressive posture. The gain to cheap Major Protection that can last 6-12 seconds depending on your situation is waaaaaaaay too good and IMO cannot be ignored.

    IMO the trade offs, whilst a bit jarring on paper, do not appear to be anything that cannot be built around by gearing.

    If it was just medium armor builds that had access to the 25% AoE dmg reduction that would probably be fine. But that isn't the case and if anything this change just makes heavy even more preferable.
    PC NA

    All my comments are regarding PvP
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
    Yolokin_Swagonborn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    Don't celebrate too soon. This looks far too good to last. Also if Bshield ends up with a cast time on it, its going to completely demotivate me to try all the builds running through my mind right now.

    It shouldn't, they never mentioned all shield will get the cast time just sorc and LA.

    Originally, all shields weren't supposed to be 6 seconds. Just hardened ward. Then they had a "great idea" and make all shields 6 seconds in a later patch. History repeats itself, so Im starting the pre-emptive protest now.
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
    Yolokin_Swagonborn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Solariken wrote: »
    I'm in love with the changes to Templar. A+ job.

    The only minor complaint so far is that Resto Focus now costs stamina - it's unnecessary and completely ridiculous logically that this skill would cost stamina. It should cost magicka.

    I really wish ZOS would understand that if you are a stam build, you use stam for damage and magicka for UTILITY. Vice versa for magicka. Having a skill that costs the same resource it returns doesn't make sense.

    Resto should cost magicka, and return stam. Then it would be a perfect utility skill and magicka dump. Its not like stamplars have tons of magicka anyway since purify is a must.
  • Gnortranermara
    Gnortranermara
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is an awesome patch for Templars so far. My main concern: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not overtune and put us on a rollercoaster of buffs/nerfs. I don't want to be OP and be targeted with overnerfs later, but this patch is looking a bit too good and dangerously close to the high before the fall.

    Feedback:
    Binding Javelin knockdown: Good change for Stamplars.
    Puncturing Strikes aiming: Awesome! Take that, talons! No more lava whips in the back while helplessly wishing for more stamina!
    Radial Sweep changes: Good news here for both Stamplar and Magplar. The redesigned morphs should fit better in both kits.
    Spear Shards damage: Great! The damage was underperforming relative to other class AOE DOT's and I always hated being force to slot a medium-level DPS ability just to give out the synergy.
    Spear Wall Minor Protection: that is awesome for survivability.
    Sun Shield aggro fix: cool I guess but this ability still needs a magicka morph.

    Backlash cost increase: fair enough, it is a strong DPS ability and very cheap for what it does.
    Radiant Destruction shortening: this is a positive change that lets us weave extra light attacks and move more during the execute phase.

    Repentance sharing: Stamplars rejoice!
    Rune Focus stam morph: Stamplars rejoice again!

    Things that still need to be addressed:
    In order of importance:
    1. Templars need a class source of Major Sorcery and Major Expedition. (Neither of these is a DPS increase, but merely for convenience and not having the requirement to run expensive potions. No other class is so heavily pushed into running expensive potions.)
    2. Sun Fire needs 1 extra second to the base ability (bringing it to 8 seconds total with the passive, fitting the rest of our rotation). And the buff should be Major Sorcery or Minor Force, not Major Prophecy. We already get Major Prophecy from Inner Light or potions.
    3. Consider making Burning Light passive proc 100% of the time, once per second. That would make abilities like Javelin and Charge more bursty, giving Templar the burst we lack (while slightly reducing overall DPS, a fair trade that is easy to implement).
    4. Sun Shield needs a magicka scaling morph. And it would make much more sense if you move it to Dawn's Wrath, replacing Eclipse, and create a spear-based thorns ability in the Aedric Spear line.
    5. Aurora Javelin needs to pull.
    6. Healing Ritual, at least one morph, should be a HOT aura instead of an insanely expensive burst.
    7. Consider making Cleansing Ritual tick more frequently, like every half second. (Reduce the magnitude per tick accordingly.) It'll feel more like a holy ground kind of thing.
    Edited by Gnortranermara on September 18, 2018 2:36AM
  • ColoredScreams
    ColoredScreams
    ✭✭✭
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    I have concerns.
    For perspective, I play stamina templar in PvP. I welcome the repentance change but stamplars in PvP will no longer have a reliable uptime on minor protection (and minor vitality) as they did before. 8% damage mitigation is huge.
    Spear Wall: This ability now grants you Minor Protection for 1.5/3 seconds after activating an Aedric Spear ability.
    In PvP, stamplars are not exclusively casting Biting Jabs on cooldown, ever. They are sprinting, rolling, healing, applying bleeds, casting shuffle what feels like every 3 seconds to stay out of roots, purging, reapplying buffs, dots, and hots, ulting, repenting, getting into melee range, moving to line of sight etc... therefore having 3 seconds of minor protection tied directly to a 1.1 second channeled ability and Javelin, which is a blockable and dodgeable low damage stun that not all stamina templars use, will inevitably result in very poor uptime for minor protection (and less importantly minor vitality) on stamplar, as opposed to how it is now: near 100% with restoring focus. I understand restoring focus now restores some stamina, but it also now costs stamina. Even if there is a small over all net increase over 20 seconds of stamina gained you will have to directly use that gained stamina for expensive defensive abilities, such as rolling or vigor, just to try to make up for the loss of reliable minor protection and minor vitality. The restoring focus change is not a buff to stamina templars, players will realize that sustain is equally as difficult as the previous patches because they are taking 8% more damage and receiving 8% less healing for the majority of the fight.
    Please allow stamina templar to have reliable access to minor protection. My suggestions would be to leave it on restoring focus but remove minor vitality, or increase the duration granted from the passive significantly, at least 10 seconds from 3 seconds, so it is more in line with the previous patches uptime. Stamplars will not jab when they need to play defensive.
    Now let's talk about something equally as relevant: Jabs doing 25% less damage to major evasion and 5% less damage to minor evasion. The new changes make evasion very easily accessible to nearly every class in the game. It is now attainable through sets (including sets like gossamer that grant multiple targets major evasion), weapon skills, class skills, and an armor skill. I am aware that there was an 8% damage increase to jabs (although only to the one closest target), but this will lead to an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs. Please reconsider just an 8% damage increase, the ability already does so little damage to other targets that are not the primary target. My suggestion is to increase the damage it does to all other targets that are NOT the closet enemy by a notable amount in addition to an overall damage buff to the skill. This may still yield an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs against targets that have access to evasion (which is now very easily accessible), but it brings stamina templars overall damage more in line with previous patches and provides an important role for this classes signature ability.
    Note: I do not think the rotation changes to jabs will be nearly enough. Most stamina templar will already be facing towards the enemy when jabbing, if you get rooted while jabbing, the majority of the time the remainder of the jabs will land directionally until they are outranged ("kited") by an enemy who is walking back. The issue with jabs vs roots is not about direction, it is about melee range. If jabs granted a brief amount of snare immunity, for example 2-3 seconds, this will be less of an issue.
    If the changes for stamina templar remain the same, Murkmire will be an overall nerf to stamplars defense, healing, and damage as well as sustain because the stamina restored from restoring focus will have to directly be used try and make up for these new significant losses.

    -@inscentia " Kiri "

    I don't agree have the same concerns you have but this is a tremendous post.

    what part(s) don't you agree with?

    I, personally, feel that a lot of the internal comparison here is being stacked against the other stamina classes vice looking at the class objectively within a vacuum and how it approaches specific situations.

    AOE damage, to include jabs being undodgeable, is wholly destructive to medium armor that cannot reliably get away from them with the aid of a mobility escape especially in lieu of jabs new targeting. Medium armor was tremendously weak versus jabs (and any AOE damage for that matter) so getting some much needed passive resistance to AOE damage to damage that medium armor cannot otherwise mitigate affords medium some much needed EHP.

    The removal of Minor Vitality and implementation of stamina sustain is IMO a moot discussion. Paired with new repentance, I am of the opinion that the gigantic sustain increase of Stamplar can allow it to have a more aggressive build, making up for the loss in healing in gains made with wep dmg/stam/crit/resists/hp. I personally value the double repentance heal dipping & sustain increase to be a net buff.

    The uptime on Minor Prot is an overall nerf, but it's available when it's needed - when jabbing relentlessly. DW setups which have a longer gap in between jabs than a 2H build will see an offensive nerf in their defensive capabilities whereas 2H will likely maintain it's aggressive posture. The gain to cheap Major Protection that can last 6-12 seconds depending on your situation is waaaaaaaay too good and IMO cannot be ignored.

    IMO the trade offs, whilst a bit jarring on paper, do not appear to be anything that cannot be built around by gearing.

    The issue is a lot bigger than Jabs vs Medium armor. It is Jabs vs Major Evasion, which is accessible by not just medium armor users through class skills, weapon skills, item sets (some give evasion to multiple targets), and of course - shuffle. Additionally, medium armor users have always had the option to run a defensive set, traits, or HP's without sacrificing much damage. For example, I personally run impregnable armor in medium, the 2/3/4 piece are fantastic, all essential stats for a damage oriented templar, and the 5th piece (2500 crit resist) makes me tankier than a heavy armor user. On top of that i now also have major evasion, 25% damage mitigation to AoE including jabs. I only lose about 300-400 weapon damage for running a defensive set, since the 2/3/4 piece are not useless for damage. That's only about 700 damage on a dawnbreaker tooltip (half that in PvP). Of course impreg is not the only defensive route a medium armor player can take, there are endless ways to sacrifice very minuscule amounts of damage for so much more tankiness and survivability . If a medium armor user is "tremendously weak" vs jabs, that is because the user did not build smartly, but rather a glass cannon. And, again, medium armor users do not exclusively having access to major evasion.
    Additionally minor protection is not available when it's needed, it is also needed when healing, kiting, applying buffs, closing distance and taking all that ranged damage etc.. like how minor protection works now. I do not jab when I'm kiting away from a zerg towards line of sight, i do not jab on my back bar purging the 8 debuffs the enemy applied to me, i need to rally and reapply hots, not Jab the enemy.
    Edited by ColoredScreams on September 18, 2018 1:40AM
  • James-Wayne
    James-Wayne
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Gillian the Rogue!
    PERTH, AUSTRALIA | PC | NA | @Aussie-Elders

    TENTH ANNIVERSARY - Thanks for sticking with us for 10 years.
    James-Wayne you earned this badge 9:56AM on 4th of February 2024.
    529 people have also earned this badge.
  • ZeroXFF
    ZeroXFF
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Repentance:
    Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.

    Sun Shield:
    I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    ZeroXFF wrote: »
    Repentance:
    Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.

    This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZeroXFF wrote: »
    Repentance:
    Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.

    Sun Shield:
    I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.

    Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.

  • ZeroXFF
    ZeroXFF
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Solariken wrote: »
    ZeroXFF wrote: »
    Repentance:
    Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.

    This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.

    Please tell me how juicy it is when you're main tanking in vAS.
    ZeroXFF wrote: »
    Repentance:
    Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.

    Sun Shield:
    I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.

    Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.

    Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill is useless. There is literally 0 reason to even morph it. In fact your group will be better off if you don't.
    Edited by ZeroXFF on September 18, 2018 3:52AM
  • Soris
    Soris
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like the changes in general thanks alot!! Tempar changes looks amazing!

    Was thinking about making a hybrid Blazing Shield again. The timing with the patch notes is great lol. Hopefully blocking will reduce the damage that shield takes.

    I agree with the general opinion on restoring focus should cost magicka instead of stamina. Uptime on minor protection seems a bit clunky but i appreciate having it on magplar. For stamplar, loss of minor vitality is something i'm unhappy about. And the major evasion change affraids me deeply. Since passive dodge removed from game, every single medium armor build and some heavy builds will start having 25% aoe dmg reduction. My magplar is all about aoe damage..... Jabs, reflective light, solar barrage, skoria, dbos, devauring swarm and even new sweep ulti all are affected. I know the buff was already in game but it was very rarely used. I think it shouldn't be widely accesible buff because it counters half of the damage in game with 100% uptime, no procs, plain damage reduction. I dont think it is balanced at all. Cast time on shields wasn't necessary too
    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    After some PTS time, Crescent Sweep does decent damage but still has problems connecting to targets. Pulsar does more damage than sweeps while being instant cast, doesn't require a target which reduces latency failure, is 360 degrees and applies Minor Mangle.
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Thumbs up!
    I didn't get everything I wanted but I did get a good 3/4.

    I'd still like to see more from sun shield, but I guess you want to see how the shield mitigation changes effects the ability but its underperforming

    I still badly need a some kind of root so I can hold trash in place after I leash them in (without ice staff). I might be able to find another bit of bar space without having to use aedric spears abilities now.
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZeroXFF wrote: »
    Solariken wrote: »
    ZeroXFF wrote: »
    Repentance:
    Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.

    This is straight crazy talk my man - Repentance is the bee's knees, the pig's wings, and the ant's pants. One of juiciest skills in the game.

    Please tell me how juicy it is when you're main tanking in vAS.
    ZeroXFF wrote: »
    Repentance:
    Nice to know you care, but it's still a useless skill. Any effect that uses corpses or has "when your enemy dies" in it should at best be the flavor, not the main effect of a skill. When the enemy dies the fight is over, you don't need whatever the skill gives you. So it's still horrible design, even if it's 1% less horrible now.

    Sun Shield:
    I'd still prefer to use my magicka on a heal at 2x the effectiveness. At 35k HP and 25k magicka Honor the Dead heals for more than 1/2 of the shield provided by this skill, and is also cheaper if used once every 6s. Shields need to be the last line of defense before HP is taken if this is supposed to be the Templar equivalent of a proper HP% heal. Most notably it has to benefit from block.

    Stamplars get stam for rune now so having that extra stam after a kill will never be bad . Repentance was bad because stamplars had no passive regen, now they do.

    Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill is useless. There is literally 0 reason to even morph it. In fact your group will be better off if you don't.

    Useless in what pve?.
  • JinMori
    JinMori
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Pretty good changes overall here, some other classes got some decent things like eruption doing more damage, but overall, it's not great.
    Edited by JinMori on September 18, 2018 4:54AM
  • Elsterchen
    Elsterchen
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Solariken wrote: »
    I'm in love with the changes to Templar. A+ job.

    The only minor complaint so far is that Resto Focus now costs stamina - it's unnecessary and completely ridiculous logically that this skill would cost stamina. It should cost magicka.

    I really really like that the Evasion buff now soft-counters typical Templar/storc/Warden PvP builds. The PTS changes overall seem to lend more to a single-target combat style and less to a PBAOE style that just lets players spam AoEs and get kills (looking at you Steel Tardnado, SubAss, DBoS, Jabs...)

    I also love that Radiant Destruction has been made more efficient and that you can actually kind of use jabs while rooted. And a Repentance feast for all the 'plars! Mmmm

    I actually look forward to that change. It opens the possibility to make use of one other (additional) buff/debuff as currently my mag-pool is reserved with restoring focus and extended ritual. Stam cost of rune are going to be less then current mag costs, which make this ability safe to be casted even at times of heavy relying on stam ressources (covered by regen, so to say).

    With poisons only increasing ability costs by 10% instead of 30% and some new ways to regain stam, the stam costs of rune are probably easily stustainable. On first glance -> currently going through my 10th try to download PTS patch.
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Really love the changes, but I think 35% extra cost on radiant destruction is a bit overkill. 5,3k magicka for an execute is a lot of magicka...
Sign In or Register to comment.