PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Wardens

_Ahala_ · September 2018

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

So I play Stam Warden and Stam Sorc for PvP and here's what I've found with the changes to far..

-Advanced Species: Increased the bonus to damage done for each Animal Companion ability slotted to 3% at rank II, previously 2%.
Stam Warden already had fantastic damage (burst) for PvP they didn't need more damage.

-Betty Netch:
Increased the resources restored by this ability and its morphs by approximately 60%.
I don't understand this, it gave a decent resource return already but now the resource return is boosted even more all while it is INSTANT cast and cost nothing. Meanwhile Dark Deal from Sorc cost mag and has a cast time

-Dive:
All the changes look good here.

-Bird of Prey (morph): The Minor Berserk buff is now granted at all times while this morph is slotted
Again another free ability for Wardens

-Feral Guardian: Decreased the damage done by the bear summoned from this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.
I'm not sure that this was needed. Seems OK on live. Compared to what I'm seeing on PTS

-Scorch: Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 25%.
Cost is fine on live, cost reduction seems unnecessary.

-Swarm: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.
Again Cost seemed ok on live but not too bad on PTS.

Overall it looks like an already very strong class (Stamwarden) in PvP got buffed while an OK stam class (StamSorc) got hurt in PvP through the loss of overload 3rd bar and Dark Deal change.

I understand the Magden could use some help but I'm not sure how much of these Warden changes are going to help Mag Warden as much as they help Stam Warden become even more unbalanced in PvP.

Exactly! Why in the world couldn’t zos just buff the mag morphs specifically

Diora · September 2018

every PTS cycle i come back, hoping to see changes to help my magwarden.

Every PTS cycle i'm left with a feeling of disappointment as I re-shelve her and go back to my magblade. *

FrostFallFox · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

FrostFallFox wrote: »

Could have all been perfect if they didn’t nerfbthe bear by SO MUCH. I’ll obviously still use swarm though... because pve.

It shouldn't have been nerfed at all. Magicka warden needed all those buffs just to get to a competitive DPS level with the other classes.

Exactly it’s stupid like literally they know it’s the worst dps, everyone does, and they nerfed it.

JinMori · September 2018

Asked for a "unique buff", community provided a crapton of good suggestions, what we get?

Warhorn no longer has minor toughness, along with the further nerfs to pve damage, as if warden wasn't already doing pretty badly, at this point i think zos is trolling us, they don't give a single f, or at least the one making the changes doesn't.

ooohhh, but it's just pts, everything is subject to change..... look, to implement changes like this you just have to not give a f, this is lazy zos, the community provided so many good alternatives to have a good class buff, you didn't even try.

Also, generally nothing really changes much from the pts to live.

NBrookus · September 2018

I can believe they continued to screw magwardens since they did it to magplar and mdk for years... but I can't believe they buffed stamdens in pvp.

Actually yes I can. *heavy sigh*

Thraben · September 2018

The same feedback as always:

1) Bear needs a grace period before it despawns, so that I can have at least a second ulti on my back bar.

2) Bird of Prey is a plain StamWarden buff. I honestly cannot understand why you should buff the already overperforming StamWardens, but destroy the already struggling MagWardens with the Annulnment nerf.

3) Swarm needs a Stam morph, not a cost reduction.

4) The new Arctic Blast is good.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

I'm going to leave this right here for Mr. @ZOS_Wrobel .

haelene · September 2018

I... I just don't understand what's going on here. Are they really so inept that they nerfed magden's DPS even more than it already was? WTH?

This plus the loss of shields destroyed what little was left of my poor magden main. RIP.

Anhedonie · September 2018

You guys at ZOS seems to fail to understand that bear ultimate isn't "desirable". It's "necessary". Make others ultimate work for warden. Don't make bear ultimate not to work anymore for him. I hope this explanation is easier to digest.

fierackas · September 2018

So many wardens complained about having to double bar the bear and ZOS came up with the solution of making it less desirable due to a DPS loss? DOH

Contraptions · September 2018

Thought ZOS wanted to make the ice mage DPS playstyle viable, where are the changes for that?

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

Contraptions wrote: »

Thought ZOS wanted to make the ice mage DPS playstyle viable, where are the changes for that?

When did they say that? Last I heard, they were adamant about ice being for tanks only.

GoonyGoat · September 2018

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Feral Guardian:
Feral Guardian: Decreased the damage done by the bear summoned from this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.
Did the full explanation of this not make the patch notes? As I was reading this I was expecting to see Feral Guardian and its morphs can now be slotted on one bar and persist through weapon swap? Also Feral Guardian would receive buffs given and received to its master. Also Feral Guardian receives its masters Impenetrable stat.

Would also like to see the dev comment on this for reasoning behind the change please

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Namarkas · September 2018

Please reconsider the change to minor toughness, this comes from a PVE raid perspective.

I really get the idea behind it. "Make every class desirable". And you did a really nice job with the passives of the minor buffs of the other classes! But as it stands at the moment, the only way to get this buff reliably is to have a warden HEALER.

And that is the pain point.
I remember reading somewhere in the Class representitive program when magblade stacking was adressed that "you don't want a group to cancel a raid just bc the stamdk couldn't come". In this case you made the warden healer this necessity.
All other classes have a "when you activate a [insert class tree] ability, you grant your team mates [insert minor buff]". But the warden actually has to heal the target. And reaching everybody with a heal once every 20 secs as tank or dd is simply not feasible. The heals you have as dd/tank either have an area restriciton (healing seeds, mushrooms, vigor, orbs,etc ), are single target (lotus flower,+ you need somebody capable of weaving, and the tank will never get it), or doesn't count as "your heal" (lifesteal of vines). So even if I am sacrificing one slot to buff my group, the additional restrictions will make it only worthwhile in fights that can be very well controlled (stacking/positioniong). And usually it is the fights where you cannot do this where the buff is actually needed.

So please, PLEASE, if you want Warden to have this unique buff only, make it applicable in a way a DD or tank can manage without gimping themselves really hard.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

Wraith66 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Feral Guardian:
Feral Guardian: Decreased the damage done by the bear summoned from this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.
Did the full explanation of this not make the patch notes? As I was reading this I was expecting to see Feral Guardian and its morphs can now be slotted on one bar and persist through weapon swap? Also Feral Guardian would receive buffs given and received to its master. Also Feral Guardian receives its masters Impenetrable stat.

Would also like to see the dev comment on this for reasoning behind the change please @ZOS_GinaBruno

GoonyGoat · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Wraith66 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Feral Guardian:
Feral Guardian: Decreased the damage done by the bear summoned from this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.
Did the full explanation of this not make the patch notes? As I was reading this I was expecting to see Feral Guardian and its morphs can now be slotted on one bar and persist through weapon swap? Also Feral Guardian would receive buffs given and received to its master. Also Feral Guardian receives its masters Impenetrable stat.

Would also like to see the dev comment on this for reasoning behind the change please @ZOS_GinaBruno

lol'd way too hard at this

AmethystDeceiver · September 2018

Not happy with arctic blast changes. In current state it's a fun skill allowing tank wardens deal some damage in pvp and pve. Of course, wardens do lack a control ability, but there is a Frozen Gate skill which no one use after Silver Leash redesign. It can be turned into something different - like crowd control.

Cellentel · September 2018

Warhorn was changed to give Wardens a unique group buff. However, the Warden minor toughness procs on healing. Warden healers (and probably tanks) will benefit from this, but it won’t do anything to make warden dps valuable as they aren’t healing the group as part of their dps rotation. Sure, they could add an otherwise pointless healing skill into their rotation just to proc the passive, but that just means a dps loss for wardens.

If the goal is to make warden dps more attractive, they need to gain some sort of heal built in the the dps rotation that will trigger the passive.

Wolf81 · September 2018

After reading over the notes...I am at a loss how any of this helps the state of magden in any way or forms. The bear was used for its cheap ultimate and yes required double bar but kept our dps at least ok, now you gut him with requiring us to think of another ultimate to use that pretty much almost almost guarantees another dps loss. I could understand this change if you allowed the bear to be active using only a single slot. I honestly really want a proper dev response about warden, do you want us to be forced into tank and secondary healer only? If so please state that in the class description and on your crownstore listing, state you accept it is suppose to be a half rate class for duration of your game and tell us now.

GrimSlayer · September 2018

Yeah, not liking the bear nerf. Please don't.

Sweetare · September 2018

Im quite confused at that Bear damage reduction.. like, why?

Most people in PvP already run Dawnbreaker + Forest/Something else. And the bear just seldom since it is way too unreliable.
Same in PvE, Id slot the bear only when Im solo, and you almost never see a bear in raids (hell, you dont even see wardens lol).

Maybe they will explain this...

All other changes are okay, ill just adapt to them.

Hutch679 · September 2018

Thraben wrote: »

The same feedback as always:

1) Bear needs a grace period before it despawns, so that I can have at least a second ulti on my back bar.

2) Bird of Prey is a plain StamWarden buff. I honestly cannot understand why you should buff the already overperforming StamWardens, but destroy the already struggling MagWardens with the Annulnment nerf.

3) Swarm needs a Stam morph, not a cost reduction.

4) The new Arctic Blast is good.

Cost reduction on swarm? Yeah you read that wrong. They INCREASED the cost of swarm by 30%..... the new arctic blast is bad. It does not damage. No warden will use this over clench.

Tryxus · September 2018

Hutch679 wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

The same feedback as always:

1) Bear needs a grace period before it despawns, so that I can have at least a second ulti on my back bar.

2) Bird of Prey is a plain StamWarden buff. I honestly cannot understand why you should buff the already overperforming StamWardens, but destroy the already struggling MagWardens with the Annulnment nerf.

3) Swarm needs a Stam morph, not a cost reduction.

4) The new Arctic Blast is good.

Cost reduction on swarm? Yeah you read that wrong. They INCREASED the cost of swarm by 30%..... the new arctic blast is bad. It does not damage. No warden will use this over clench.

Frost Clench + Arctic Blast

Anyways,

I actually like the new Arctic Blast. Having a ranged stun with a heal mechanic is gonna be pretty decent considering Heavy's gonna be meta next update

Starlight_Knight · September 2018

I love the fact we now get a CC although its tacked on in a bit of a random place.. and dose no damage and costs a fortune .. ( think ill stick to frost touch ), although ive not properly tested it yet...

EDIT Now i have tested it and i don't like it, its a CC attached to a heal that needs a target to work on... So you need to target someone to get your heal, i wont give examples of why thats a pain it just is.. its way to expensive and feels very out of place. i could still have a place on some builds but im not sure anyone would use it over the destro cc.

i love the more regen on betty, i understand the nerfs to bear - so DPS doesn't depend on it. i like the changes to Dive and love the passive changes to falcon swiftness. ( but do we have to double bar it now ? ) hmm
Some moving in the right direction, others im not so sure.

2 things still bother me a lot.

I still hate fetcher in PVP because you have no idea if its the 50% more or 50% less option that you're about to fire as in combat you cant really keep count of those things, yes your hands glow a little bit but its hardly a good indication as when your opponent is dodging you take what you can get. i think that should be done away with and just make it a flat 25% damage increase or even better add increased execute damage onto it! Now with the increased cost ill probs not use it for PVP - or its leased become less desirable.

The bears AI is stupid and is just not a good option for PVP atall - with all the line of sighting the bear cant path find and often its not there at all for whole fights. I would like to see the ulti activate a teleport function that summons the bear onto your target to fire the skill as atm you press the ulti and you get charged and .. no bear.

Pr0Skygon · September 2018

Incoming shameless plugs

These surveys I'm conducting is to help everyone clearly view how the community is reacting to the new changes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/436033/magicka-wardens-are-you-satisfied-with-the-new-changes-come-with-update-20#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/436032/stamina-wardens-are-you-satisfied-with-the-new-changes-come-with-update-20#latest

roksolana_sowa · September 2018

I cant belive that here I still can read massages that wardens ok with damage so for which reason u up passives. Wake up ppl, in this game there is not only pvp area. How many wardens u can see in raids who not supports? With such politics about class balance and worring about pvp now we have fully nb raids and maybe sorc for extra aoe.
I was really happy when I got my parses on stamden yesterday. Before this chages with Minor Toughness made me laught but now I even think that it could work not only with warden supports.
So thanks, stamden on dummy now feeling really not bad with sustain and damage. Trick is that Bird of Pray for max effect need to be double slot, if u running solo or with dds only (were actually u can use this) u need vigor, netch etc.
About bear... well, really? U need to double slot this ulti its single target and u nerf damage from it?
Need keep look on magden now...

Ariades_swe · September 2018

Gl killing an open world specced stamblade next patch as a warden.

Pevey · September 2018

I'm trying to level Falcon's Swiftness on PTS to see the new tooltips on the morphs, but the skill will not level.

IAVITNI · September 2018

Hutch679 wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

The same feedback as always:

1) Bear needs a grace period before it despawns, so that I can have at least a second ulti on my back bar.

2) Bird of Prey is a plain StamWarden buff. I honestly cannot understand why you should buff the already overperforming StamWardens, but destroy the already struggling MagWardens with the Annulnment nerf.

3) Swarm needs a Stam morph, not a cost reduction.

4) The new Arctic Blast is good.

Cost reduction on swarm? Yeah you read that wrong. They INCREASED the cost of swarm by 30%..... the new arctic blast is bad. It does not damage. No warden will use this over clench.

In combination with Shulks, its a sustain buff. They made the heavy hitting skill more accessible. A 25% decrease on a skill cast every 4 seconds vs a 30% cost increase on a skill cast every 10? (part of me feels like its 11, idk why) is a net gain. Swarm cost was significantly lower than Shulks to begin with. So its really just a 25% cost reduction on the entire rotation.

BaylorCorvette · September 2018

NBrookus wrote: »

I can believe they continued to screw magwardens since they did it to magplar and mdk for years... but I can't believe they buffed stamdens in pvp.

Actually yes I can. *heavy sigh*

It's pretty funny TBH. When I read all of the class changes and then read Warden changes and what effect it was going to have on Stam Warden specifically I just laughed. I assumed they were going to adjust how good Stam Warden was. I mean they did, they just adjusted one of the best classes to be better and not on par with the other Stam classes.