MAGICKA WARDENS, are you satisfied with the new changes come with update 20???

Pr0Skygon

Just 1 of the simple surveys I'm conducting. Please feel free to share your thought below (I know, the caps is annoying, but I love it).

keevil111

I've not tested them out yet, but on paper, they seem legit.

The change to netch (+60% resources) is nice. I never liked swarm so the increased cost doesn't bother me. Bird of prey is the one I'm most concened with. Instead of casting it you get the damage buff while slotted. That may need to be double slotted now. Will have to find room or drop it, not sure yet. The maturation buff is great. A much better group tool. Increased damage with animals equipped is awsome also. Arctic blast change sucks. It now does no damage over time and just stuns an enemy. I was using it with Icehearts and my ice fields as a AoE heal + defense.

Overall I like the changes. Magden needed more damage badly. Especially frost spec. Good job ZOS!

Pr0Skygon

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

keevil111 wrote: »

The change to netch (+60% resources) is nice. I never liked swarm so the increased cost doesn't bother me. Bird of prey is the one I'm most concened with. Instead of casting it you get the damage buff while slotted. That may need to be double slotted now. Will have to find room or drop it, not sure yet. The maturation buff is great. A much better group tool. Increased damage with animals equipped is awsome also. Arctic blast change sucks. It now does no damage over time and just stuns an enemy. I was using it with Icehearts and my ice fields as a AoE heal + defense.

Overall I like the changes. Magden needed more damage badly. Especially frost spec. Good job ZOS!

I gotta admit, the change to netch is very much welcome for Magden (I think it's quite overkill on stam side). But man, the damage is still nowhere. WTB more dps, fast.

Konstant_Tel_Necris

HELL NO!!!

Why they nerf bear? Why this cancerous change to Arctic Blast? And we still dont have good damage to be on par with other mag DD add on top to this shield nerf.

Pr0Skygon

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

Why they nerf bear? Why this cancerous change to Arctic Blast? And we still dont have good damage to be on par with other mag DD add on top to this shield nerf.

I remember something about "Don't want warden to depend on the bear for good dps".
Then again, what's the point of the bear then? Extra pet for fun?

keevil111

I've not tested them out yet, but on paper, they seem legit.

The arctic blast change isn't great but it does give us a class stun. As far as the bear, I'm not sure what they were thinking. Honestly it should have been a skill like shalks, not an ultimate you have to double bar. I don't use the bear so I can't really say.

Magden just needs more dps but it will never reach top tier damage because it's too good at everything else. It's arguably the second best healer and second best tank already. Magicka Wardens will always be lower damage, more utility. Hence the frost theme which I really like right now.

Pr0Skygon

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

keevil111 wrote: »

The arctic blast change isn't great but it does give us a class stun. As far as the bear, I'm not sure what they were thinking. Honestly it should have been a skill like shalks, not an ultimate you have to double bar. I don't use the bear so I can't really say.

Magden just needs more dps but it will never reach top tier damage because it's too good at everything else. It's arguably the second best healer and second best tank already. Magicka Wardens will always be lower damage, more utility. Hence the frost theme which I really like right now.

Magden is one of the lowest DPS in PVE right now, and then ZOS decide to nerf them further down.
Awesome.

kerthas

Oh look, a sweetroll.

there is some nice change, but generally, its not usefull what they did, dont really see the point of it, and i'm wondeing why they not remove the bear seems they dont like it at all.
And with the nerf of the shields, whatever they will do, its not gonna compensated this brainless nerf.

keevil111

I've not tested them out yet, but on paper, they seem legit.

I agree the bear nerf was not necessary. That really cuts into our dps. Advanced species passive buff is their way of compensating i guess. Though I haven't tried it out, I'm not convinced it will be enough.

_Ahala_

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

Thanks for the sustain buffs... but why give all the same buffs to Stamden who really didn’t need it? Can’t we just buff the underperforming things for once... and what is with the cost increase on flies? Did that slow moving ability that needed a double cost really need a cost increase? I get it... you hate Magden... but seriously why are you favoring Stamden so hard this patch when it’s at the top of the PvP list and Magden is dead last???

Also 30% damage nerf in bear with no buffs to base skills? Rip PvE dps... not like warden makes up <4% of dps in end game content or anything

Why is the new stun a no damage, 1.5k heal, slow moving, dodgeable blockable projectile, that costs 4K mag!?! Do you really think this is good enough for Magdens to drop reach/clench over?

Also the nerf the damage shields is gonna hurt... thanks for that... not like we are bottom of the barrel or anything... no reason to play a Magden over Stamden anymore

Starlight_Knight

Kind of, the new changes are heading toward a good direction.

Regarding the bear i wonder if thats the auto attack damage they reduced and not the ulti ? so it might not be as bad as we think.. ?

im *hope* we don't need to double bar bird of prey.. so double baring magelight and bird will be bad.. it will be either or..

The changes to fetcher are meh for pve and it was a terrible skill for pvp anyway..

The stun.. Well leased we got one... its in a supper random place and dose no damage and costs an absolute fortune. ill stick with destro CC thanks but no thanks..

Great changes to sustain, cliffracer and cost reduction on sub.

Nevasca

Kind of, the new changes are heading toward a good direction.

Betty Netch sustain is awesome for MagDen, but I don't think they should've buffed the sustain in this way. Netch restores resources regardless of what you are doing, meaning the stamina version is much more powerful than the numbers. Stamdens nerf can bring nerfs indirect nerfs to Magden, and that's what I am afraid of. Honestly, at this point they should rework Scorch and make it deal a short dot (2-3s) to reduce the burst in PvP, while mainting the same damage in PvE. Add a stamina morph to Swarm and you unlocked a dot-build potential for Stamdens.

Idk why they nerfed Swarm cost, it won't affect anything since it's pretty much. All it did is removed the alternative rotation in PvE where you always recasted Fetcher Infection to get the bonus damage, and because it was cheap, you got a almost not noticeable increase in sustain, while the damage difference was really small.

Mixed feelings about the wings change. I can see it being really good in PvP, but PvE-wise, might be able to front bar it by removing Innerlight from back bar. Probably not worth to remove Innerlight from front bar if you don't have space...

One detail people seem to be forgetting is that the increased cost on Psijic spammable made Birds the cheapest spammable now. So, in comparison to other classes, our sustain seems good now. It's not like Magblades level on live, but definitly a lot better.

Imo they overdid the nerf on the bear. I don't it even needed it to start with, so 30% is a huge number to just random throw to it. Maybe 10-15% nerf to it would be best? It's just that, if they allocated more power elsewhere else I wouldn't mind, but they nerfed it and told us to suck it .

FrostFallFox

Kind of, the new changes are heading toward a good direction.

I’m fine with everything besides the Bear nerf.

Mojomonkeyman

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

I think the changes show that ZOS has no vision for Mag Warden. The initital class concept made by a rather young team (Wrobels words) has been crippled on so many crucial angles due to questionable design decisions (they broke what was working, see fissure stun - for the sake of some artificial new guideline "stun + dmg = nono", same goes for magsorc frags) and havent managed to come up with sufficient replacements.

They are now breaking another one of the best designed Warden skills (Arctic blast), that is in perfect harmony with a lot of Warden skills & passives and therefore builds (MagWarden Frost Mage, HealthWarden, Warden Tank), provides excellent and rare utility (cloak counter, chilled & deep freeze factory) - just to add a unoriginal, generic bandaid stun that has zero flavour and doesnt even match the quality of the stun we lost, gameplay wise. We will lose an offensive gcd for casting it, which is terrible for the delayed and therefore timing dependant burst combo nature of the class.

I'm so irritated that ZOS didn't manage to come up with better (in terms of gameplay, functionality, class flavour) and very obvious solutions that have been provided by the community over the course of the past 12 months.

They are honestly trying to sell the change to Bird of Prey as a buff or dont understand that it is a nerf. Double-barring is a pita and will not make Warden life easier.
Some simple examples:
- I am running damage abilities and ultimates on both bars, thats a 8% damage nerf to half of my abilities that dont have Bird of Prey on the same bar
- I am using Bird of Prey on the defensive bar to have more more barspace available on the offensive bar (hello Inner Light and max magicka stacking)

Both changes will break existing builds. Shouldn't the developers goal be to protect already existing setups of an endangered species (MagWarden) and make the class richer by adding new possibilites? That's not what they are doing, quite the opposite. I don't understand it, the only explanation I can come up with by now is utterly disheartening - they don't understand their own game and have intention to learn more about it.

Tryxus

Oh look, a sweetroll.

I'm pleased with all the changes, except the Bear nerf ofc

Better sustain with the Shalk cost reduction and resource return increase on the Netch.

With the roll dodge and Evasion changes, our Animal Companion skills are a lot nicer to use in PvP. Easier to use Cliff Racer & Shalk. Deceptive Predator also became a lot more useful

We got a class CC again, one that heals us which is gonna be nice due to the shield changes. Plus we can use Ice Staves with it again

And Minor Toughness now becoming a Warden only buff. Bit of a cheesy move, but at least it'll make Warden tanks and healers more acceptable

Things are clearing up, about time

Sparr0w

Kind of, the new changes are heading toward a good direction.

Never played a warden before last night when someone asked me to test on the PTS & I hit 45k self buffed non bear second ever parse (first was on a centurion to learn some form of rotation) and this was with non meta gear (just transferred siroria & mothers sorrow across from my NB).

Tho I guess thats mainly due to passive minor beserk

DenniMyuu

Kind of, the new changes are heading toward a good direction.

As a healer I got what I wanted: A buff that only a Warden can apply to the group now rather than being applied by Aggressive Horns already. :')

_Ahala_

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

Also the new evasion buff nerfs fissure and perma by 25%... ok that’s nice... we definitely deserved that PvP damage nerf to our last two useable class damage abilities... what even is this patch... This is this is just a bad dream right? Can I pls wake up now?

Pr0Skygon

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Also the new evasion buff nerfs fissure and perma by 25%... ok that’s nice... we definitely deserved that PvP damage nerf to our last two useable class damage abilities... what even is this patch... This is this is just a bad dream right? Can I pls wake up now?

But you now deal more damage overall, have a new stun and the netch got 1 hell of a buff.
Yay?

zTrok

HELL NO!!!

New changes were good and bad in different ways for each spec of Warden. Stamwarden got a huge buff from these changes putting it on par with some of the other top stam specs. Magwarden on the otherhand really got the other side of the coin with these changes as the swarm cost increase along with the bear decrease of damage result in magden pulling less than last patch. Healers got a buff of sorts in the fact that near every trial setup is going to be wanting one Templar one Warden. As for tanks, tanks received a straight buff to sustain in the buff to Netch. Overall there's a lot of good and bad, with the highlight being stamden and the lowlight being magden.

While this is the general changes of all Wardens, magden really did get shafted by the changes with a sizeable dps loss, and nothing to really compensate it for. In vMA the Shalks + Birbs will be a welcomed change to Force Pulse + Swarm. In a raid context the only reason to bring a magden now would be for the Master Architect on ranged toons.

PvP still has yet to be seen. In a solo setting Arctic Blast is actually quite nice to use against opponents and acts as a nice heal. I would like for one to be able to activate it's heal regardless of having a target in sight. It does help with magden burst, and can help aid in magden healing if you were not running a resto staff on your back bar.

ESO_Nightingale

HELL NO!!!

AGAIN, they overcompensated. Our new cc was put on the completely wrong skill and it's *** to boot. what it needed was a damage buff by making Arctic Blast scale off mag and spell dmg. AND THEN they can add a stun to it. at the moment what it is, is a useless over costing skill that is arguably worse than old Blast. WE NEED DAMAGE ON IT THAT IS REALLY USEFUL!!!! nerfs for bear and bugs were uncalled for. netch buff is nice but not what we need right now. screaming cliff racer has been band-aided enough so that i can use it and scorch now costs a useful amount.

MinarasLaure

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

I feel like there is nothing zos can do to balance magden without boosting also stamden performance, and that's gonna be a big issue.
Sooooo, yeah , I guess I'll take whatever comes

ESO_Nightingale

HELL NO!!!

MinarasLaure wrote: »

I feel like there is nothing zos can do to balance magden without boosting also stamden performance, and that's gonna be a big issue.
Sooooo, yeah , I guess I'll take whatever comes

they can make its ice skills better at dpsing. but NOOOOOOOOOOO ice is a "tank" magic OMEGALULS

keevil111

I've not tested them out yet, but on paper, they seem legit.

Right, Boost the frost skills! Give it!

_Ahala_

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Also the new evasion buff nerfs fissure and perma by 25%... ok that’s nice... we definitely deserved that PvP damage nerf to our last two useable class damage abilities... what even is this patch... This is this is just a bad dream right? Can I pls wake up now?

But you now deal more damage overall, have a new stun and the netch got 1 hell of a buff.
Yay?

That’s Stamden that does more damage... the sustain buffs got countered in PvP by the increase to the cost of flies and the rediculous cost of our new no damage pathetic heal stun... also they gutted the bear without any subsequent damage buffs to any of the mag damage skills... I know it all looks good on paper, but when you test them out these patch changes actually mean a sustain buff with a dps and survivability nerf for Magden while Stamden gets a buff in all three categories... Magden is still trash tier because zos doesn’t know how to actually buff them instead of nerf buff

Pr0Skygon

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Also the new evasion buff nerfs fissure and perma by 25%... ok that’s nice... we definitely deserved that PvP damage nerf to our last two useable class damage abilities... what even is this patch... This is this is just a bad dream right? Can I pls wake up now?

But you now deal more damage overall, have a new stun and the netch got 1 hell of a buff.
Yay?

That’s Stamden that does more damage... the sustain buffs got countered in PvP by the increase to the cost of flies and the rediculous cost of our new no damage pathetic heal stun... also they gutted the bear without any subsequent damage buffs to any of the mag damage skills... I know it all looks good on paper, but when you test them out these patch changes actually mean a sustain buff with a dps and survivability nerf for Magden while Stamden gets a buff in all three categories... Magden is still trash tier because zos doesn’t know how to actually buff them instead of nerf buff

Oh believe me, I don't say these change are good for magDen, never have

In ZOS defense, they did buffed the Animal Companion passive (which helps mostly magDen) and reduce the cost of Scotch, on top of the netch buff.

About the bear, I think we should first test the usual Perma Frost + Elemental Rage ulti first. RIP bear

yahuhu

Oh look, a sweetroll.

Changes have affected ALL classes. Before thing about the single class, look at the changes in general.

Pr0Skygon

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

yahuhu wrote: »

Changes have affected ALL classes. Before thing about the single class, look at the changes in general.

I think there're enough threads for that though ) You want another thread talking about damage shield? Cause I'm pretty sure nothing else really matters as much as that.

Drygon

Kind of, the new changes are heading toward a good direction.

Changes go in a good direction i feel.

The new arctic blast is way too clunky, needs a smoother animation that would actualy make sense and the heal can be removed ( let the other morph do the healing), and add frost Dmg on impact this way it would help Magicka wardens quite a bit, also make it scale off magicka(obviosly) and it won't help at all stamina wardens.

Now, I like the Passive dmg buff and the Bear DPS loss is to counter that, and it is fine only that the bear needs to teleport near the target that gets targeted by the ultimate active, this can be a good mobility mechanic ( combined with the new nature grasp), and counter the AI problems.

Swarm cost icreased is welcome, i've been using growing swarm and i had no penality to spam it in pvp, now it is better.

Shimmering shield could use a 4.5 seconds major heroism, see how that works.

Icy Aura needs to be reworked, really, that ability is not even worth two skillpoints atm. Make it part of Glacial presence or remove it and add something else that will benefit the magicka warden as that is the spec that needs the most help like something called Shatter: When you deal critical frost direct damage to an imobilized target, it shatters receaving X DMG and gets debuffed with minor Breach and Minor Fracture for X seconds. This ability can proc once every X seconds.

Now, tanks still need their reliable aoe damage to proc minor maim seeeing that they no longer have it from ARctic blast, and healers and MAgicka wardens and stamina wardens could use a lower survivability, so what i sugest is reduce the dmg mitigation of ice fortress to 6% and increase its range to 18 meters and decrease the range of expansive (maybe rename it) frost cloak to 6 (or 8 needs actual testing) meters and give it the aoe dmg that scale on max health (4% would be a good start) that proc once every four seconds each time the character blocks some dmg. This would actualy help frost tanking. Maybe add block cost reduction passive to compensete for the loss on the other morph like 4% block cost reduction. Now tanks would have to make a real choice between the two morphs and get something from both.

Also, i know that this is not the place, but i like that shields have a cast time, it provides counter play, but 1 second is too long, try 0.5 and see what is what and maybe lower it even more if nedded, to 0.25.

Ashtaris

You have too many choices for your poll. You do know the meaning of KISS, right? You have several choices that in the negative but it’s hard to see that and give a better picture for the devs.

Anhedonie

I can see why ZOS did these, but I don't agree with them.

I think I will finally be leaving the game for good if these changes go live.