[Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread

Dashmatt · September 2018

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

BTW are potions the only way to get Major Brutality now without group buffs? Just another small nerf I noticed while soloing in IC. Not only has my defence taken a hit but now I have to choose between tristat and a huge and necessary damage buff.

Major Brutality was moved to the Hircine’s Rage morph. Much better to switch morphs than change your potions in my opinion.

Jaraal · September 2018

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Well feedback couldnt be worse, the passive than made werewolves more bulky is broken, and no one seems to give a damn about it.

Had it be the poison dmg increase or the dawnbreaker extra bonus not working, forums would be EXPLODING with cry babies saying wolves are OP and such, a fix would come in a week at most.

@ZOS_GinaBruno this must be addressed, wolfhunter, a DLC about werewolves, making actual werewolf players feel gimped, not good AT ALL

It was fun exploring the new changes. But ultimately, I found I could get more xp/ap and kill stuff faster in my regular gear because there is SO much time wasted devouring corpses. And that makes it gimped in the group experience, because people are looking at you like, what are you doing standing there eating corpses, you should be fighting, etc.

Nice idea in theory, but it's fundamentally unproductive for that reason.

Jaraal · September 2018

Dashmatt wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

BTW are potions the only way to get Major Brutality now without group buffs? Just another small nerf I noticed while soloing in IC. Not only has my defence taken a hit but now I have to choose between tristat and a huge and necessary damage buff.

Major Brutality was moved to the Hircine’s Rage morph. Much better to switch morphs than change your potions in my opinion.

I preferred to keep the better heal and wear Dreugh King armor with the perma Major Brutality and the Major Expedition on kills.

Jaraal · October 2018

The nerfing of the three sets with Major Expedition makes them useless for werewolves, who don't have access to their Rapids. Cutting the speed from 20 seconds to 8 seconds after a kill means the effect has already worn off after the necessary devouring a couple of corpses.

spekdah · October 2018

A newish player here (3 months). Tried out WW after update 19 so don't have the previous experience to compare with.

My biggest gripe is the timer, it's almost an anti-pattern for how you engage the rest of the game content. It's far too short.
Sure it's fine... for a dolmen, but outside of that?

You can't literally do anything else;
* no chat to groups
* can't read lore books,
* skips all NPC text, just click through it
* skip resource nodes
* skips all the lootable containers in delves, dungeons etc
* don't explore
* don't even pause to take in the lovely 4K scenery

It's literally "Where is my next meal ??" so I can keep up damage. In dungeons as said, you are both
* running ahead, I need to eat!
* falling behind after trash clears to "eat up"!

I get it, us werewolfs are almost role playing behind our screens, lips seared back, tunnel vision, must devour!

Maybe keep the timer while in combat. Otherwise it should be a toggle. I would really like to actually play and enjoy the rest of the content and stay in groups.

Chrlynsch · October 2018

spekdah wrote: »

A newish player here (3 months). Tried out WW after update 19 so don't have the previous experience to compare with.

My biggest gripe is the timer, it's almost an anti-pattern for how you engage the rest of the game content. It's far too short.
Sure it's fine... for a dolmen, but outside of that?

You can't literally do anything else;
* no chat to groups
* can't read lore books,
* skips all NPC text, just click through it
* skip resource nodes
* skips all the lootable containers in delves, dungeons etc
* don't explore
* don't even pause to take in the lovely 4K scenery

It's literally "Where is my next meal ??" so I can keep up damage. In dungeons as said, you are both
* running ahead, I need to eat!
* falling behind after trash clears to "eat up"!

I get it, us werewolfs are almost role playing behind our screens, lips seared back, tunnel vision, must devour!

Maybe keep the timer while in combat. Otherwise it should be a toggle. I would really like to actually play and enjoy the rest of the content and stay in groups.

Werewolves are fearsome creatures filled with bloodthirst and rage that need to devour to remain inform otherwise they do not get to enjoy the werewolf playstyle.

Meanwhile vampires are sunbathing in summerset drinking bloody maras.

Datolite · October 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

spekdah wrote: »

A newish player here (3 months). Tried out WW after update 19 so don't have the previous experience to compare with.

My biggest gripe is the timer, it's almost an anti-pattern for how you engage the rest of the game content. It's far too short.
Sure it's fine... for a dolmen, but outside of that?

You can't literally do anything else;
* no chat to groups
* can't read lore books,
* skips all NPC text, just click through it
* skip resource nodes
* skips all the lootable containers in delves, dungeons etc
* don't explore
* don't even pause to take in the lovely 4K scenery

It's literally "Where is my next meal ??" so I can keep up damage. In dungeons as said, you are both
* running ahead, I need to eat!
* falling behind after trash clears to "eat up"!

I get it, us werewolfs are almost role playing behind our screens, lips seared back, tunnel vision, must devour!

Maybe keep the timer while in combat. Otherwise it should be a toggle. I would really like to actually play and enjoy the rest of the content and stay in groups.

Werewolves are fearsome creatures filled with bloodthirst and rage that need to devour to remain inform otherwise they do not get to enjoy the werewolf playstyle.

Meanwhile vampires are sunbathing in summerset drinking bloody maras.

This is something that's always bugged me. In almost all other canons a vampire becomes more powerful the more he drinks. Why is the opposite true in ESO?

DocFrost72 · October 2018

spekdah wrote: »

A newish player here (3 months). Tried out WW after update 19 so don't have the previous experience to compare with.

My biggest gripe is the timer, it's almost an anti-pattern for how you engage the rest of the game content. It's far too short.
Sure it's fine... for a dolmen, but outside of that?

You can't literally do anything else;
* no chat to groups
* can't read lore books,
* skips all NPC text, just click through it
* skip resource nodes
* skips all the lootable containers in delves, dungeons etc
* don't explore
* don't even pause to take in the lovely 4K scenery

It's literally "Where is my next meal ??" so I can keep up damage. In dungeons as said, you are both
* running ahead, I need to eat!
* falling behind after trash clears to "eat up"!

I get it, us werewolfs are almost role playing behind our screens, lips seared back, tunnel vision, must devour!

Maybe keep the timer while in combat. Otherwise it should be a toggle. I would really like to actually play and enjoy the rest of the content and stay in groups.

The werewolf experience in a nutshell.

I love how different it functions, I really dig a decent chunk of the changes we got. I find it lamentable that it am anxiously trying to bite something or I lose form.

I wonder if a good compromise could be taking the cap away from the timer, like how skyrim handled it. That way you still have to find meals, but not every dang second is precious time spent. That, or even make salvation's 5 piece include a permanent timer making werewolf a toggle.

Wuuffyy · October 2018

DocFrost72 wrote: »

spekdah wrote: »

A newish player here (3 months). Tried out WW after update 19 so don't have the previous experience to compare with.

My biggest gripe is the timer, it's almost an anti-pattern for how you engage the rest of the game content. It's far too short.
Sure it's fine... for a dolmen, but outside of that?

You can't literally do anything else;
* no chat to groups
* can't read lore books,
* skips all NPC text, just click through it
* skip resource nodes
* skips all the lootable containers in delves, dungeons etc
* don't explore
* don't even pause to take in the lovely 4K scenery

It's literally "Where is my next meal ??" so I can keep up damage. In dungeons as said, you are both
* running ahead, I need to eat!
* falling behind after trash clears to "eat up"!

I get it, us werewolfs are almost role playing behind our screens, lips seared back, tunnel vision, must devour!

Maybe keep the timer while in combat. Otherwise it should be a toggle. I would really like to actually play and enjoy the rest of the content and stay in groups.

The werewolf experience in a nutshell.

I love how different it functions, I really dig a decent chunk of the changes we got. I find it lamentable that it am anxiously trying to bite something or I lose form.

I wonder if a good compromise could be taking the cap away from the timer, like how skyrim handled it. That way you still have to find meals, but not every dang second is precious time spent. That, or even make salvation's 5 piece include a permanent timer making werewolf a toggle.

That would be dumb. Just make it where you don’t lost time or gain time out of combat. Possibly a buff to werewolf house to give yo extra wep dmg while in werewolf for dueling.

DocFrost72 · October 2018

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

spekdah wrote: »

A newish player here (3 months). Tried out WW after update 19 so don't have the previous experience to compare with.

My biggest gripe is the timer, it's almost an anti-pattern for how you engage the rest of the game content. It's far too short.
Sure it's fine... for a dolmen, but outside of that?

You can't literally do anything else;
* no chat to groups
* can't read lore books,
* skips all NPC text, just click through it
* skip resource nodes
* skips all the lootable containers in delves, dungeons etc
* don't explore
* don't even pause to take in the lovely 4K scenery

It's literally "Where is my next meal ??" so I can keep up damage. In dungeons as said, you are both
* running ahead, I need to eat!
* falling behind after trash clears to "eat up"!

I get it, us werewolfs are almost role playing behind our screens, lips seared back, tunnel vision, must devour!

Maybe keep the timer while in combat. Otherwise it should be a toggle. I would really like to actually play and enjoy the rest of the content and stay in groups.

The werewolf experience in a nutshell.

I love how different it functions, I really dig a decent chunk of the changes we got. I find it lamentable that it am anxiously trying to bite something or I lose form.

I wonder if a good compromise could be taking the cap away from the timer, like how skyrim handled it. That way you still have to find meals, but not every dang second is precious time spent. That, or even make salvation's 5 piece include a permanent timer making werewolf a toggle.

That would be dumb. Just make it where you don’t lost time or gain time out of combat. Possibly a buff to werewolf house to give yo extra wep dmg while in werewolf for dueling.

So, remove devour? No me gusta.

Qbiken · October 2018

DocFrost72 wrote: »

spekdah wrote: »

A newish player here (3 months). Tried out WW after update 19 so don't have the previous experience to compare with.

My biggest gripe is the timer, it's almost an anti-pattern for how you engage the rest of the game content. It's far too short.
Sure it's fine... for a dolmen, but outside of that?

You can't literally do anything else;
* no chat to groups
* can't read lore books,
* skips all NPC text, just click through it
* skip resource nodes
* skips all the lootable containers in delves, dungeons etc
* don't explore
* don't even pause to take in the lovely 4K scenery

It's literally "Where is my next meal ??" so I can keep up damage. In dungeons as said, you are both
* running ahead, I need to eat!
* falling behind after trash clears to "eat up"!

I get it, us werewolfs are almost role playing behind our screens, lips seared back, tunnel vision, must devour!

Maybe keep the timer while in combat. Otherwise it should be a toggle. I would really like to actually play and enjoy the rest of the content and stay in groups.

The werewolf experience in a nutshell.

I love how different it functions, I really dig a decent chunk of the changes we got. I find it lamentable that it am anxiously trying to bite something or I lose form.

I wonder if a good compromise could be taking the cap away from the timer, like how skyrim handled it. That way you still have to find meals, but not every dang second is precious time spent. That, or even make salvation's 5 piece include a permanent timer making werewolf a toggle.

Making werewolf toogle would come with severe balance issues so no thank you. But a rework of salvation would be welcomed. Making it increasing your time in WW-form or reduce the "drain" would be better then its current version.

DocFrost72 · October 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

spekdah wrote: »

A newish player here (3 months). Tried out WW after update 19 so don't have the previous experience to compare with.

My biggest gripe is the timer, it's almost an anti-pattern for how you engage the rest of the game content. It's far too short.
Sure it's fine... for a dolmen, but outside of that?

You can't literally do anything else;
* no chat to groups
* can't read lore books,
* skips all NPC text, just click through it
* skip resource nodes
* skips all the lootable containers in delves, dungeons etc
* don't explore
* don't even pause to take in the lovely 4K scenery

It's literally "Where is my next meal ??" so I can keep up damage. In dungeons as said, you are both
* running ahead, I need to eat!
* falling behind after trash clears to "eat up"!

I get it, us werewolfs are almost role playing behind our screens, lips seared back, tunnel vision, must devour!

Maybe keep the timer while in combat. Otherwise it should be a toggle. I would really like to actually play and enjoy the rest of the content and stay in groups.

The werewolf experience in a nutshell.

I love how different it functions, I really dig a decent chunk of the changes we got. I find it lamentable that it am anxiously trying to bite something or I lose form.

I wonder if a good compromise could be taking the cap away from the timer, like how skyrim handled it. That way you still have to find meals, but not every dang second is precious time spent. That, or even make salvation's 5 piece include a permanent timer making werewolf a toggle.

Making werewolf toogle would come with severe balance issues so no thank you. But a rework of salvation would be welcomed. Making it increasing your time in WW-form or reduce the "drain" would be better then its current version.

What would you think of devour not having a time limit cap? Ie, you can "overeat" to store time? If not limitless, perhaps a higher number than 2 ish minutes?

AuldWolf · October 2018

You know, a toggle wouldn't really require a balance rework if ZOS were smart about it. Counters again. Have it so that elite mobs, quest bosses, dungeon bosses, and players have things they can do to knock a werewolf player back to being human. So werewolf becomes less about OH MY GOD I MUST EAT every moment, which is really bad for anyone with anxiety (like my partner), and more about keeping a watchful eye for anything that could depower you.

It's absolutely true that werewolf just isn't fun right now. No one wants to play a game where they're skipping most of content. A roleplayer not being able to stop to read lore books? A crafter not being able to stop to gather materials? Ridiculous. That reeks of bad design and, frankly, that's something we should all be able to admit or shame on us. Werewolf, as it stands, is badly designed and not at all fun. On top of that, they haven't even incentivised werewolf players with new graphics. It's the same model that was already bad over four years ago when the game launched.

Not having a model update in over four years for something that a non-trivial contingent of the game play is gross mismanagement. It's these kinds of things that forced me from the game. If you managed things intelligently, you could make werewolf fun and interesting to play. ESO, though, is famous for nothing if not mismanagement. It's almost getting to the point where it's more famous for it than Champions Online. That's saying something.

There are better ways to do things. Until ZOS finds a better way, or ESO finds a better developer, I can't torture myself with playing a bad game. And it would be my shame to not admit it. ESO, as it stands right now, is not a good game. Brilliant writing? Yes! Some great area design? Yep. Good gameplay feel or mechanics? Oh dear god no.

Could be fixed, but they're too laser-focused on their next DLC, their next payout. ESO is more price-gouging than almost any other game I've ever played. Even Wildstar had a more generous housing system. So it is all greed and mismanagement.

Could be better. Isn't.

Dashmatt · October 2018

AuldWolf wrote: »

It's absolutely true that werewolf just isn't fun right now.

Gonna have to stop you right there...

Andele · October 2018

Set, Skill or even Quest allowing WW form time to be INCREASED (or the drain decrease be improved for solo/non pack) would be nice, but the only things that truly needs fixing is heavy attack being borked if used right after a skill or when reticle is on a moving target and not being able to open inventory while nomming corpses.

Also seriously, if there is a WW/Vamp Lord upgrade quest line down the line, allow argonians to "instead" turn into werecroc, nords into werebears, redguards into wereboars, khajit into werelions and bosmer into werevultures (aka give everyone their lore based provincial re-mesh).

Chrlynsch · October 2018

Andele wrote: »

Set, Skill or even Quest allowing WW form time to be INCREASED (or the drain decrease be improved for solo/non pack) would be nice, but the only things that truly needs fixing is heavy attack being borked if used right after a skill or when reticle is on a moving target and not being able to open inventory while nomming corpses.

Also seriously, if there is a WW/Vamp Lord upgrade quest line down the line, allow argonians to "instead" turn into werecroc, nords into werebears, redguards into wereboars, khajit into werelions and bosmer into werevultures (aka give everyone their lore based provincial re-mesh).

I'd say don't lock it behind race restrictions.

IlCanis_LupuslI · October 2018

I just want the ww to be unbugged tbh

Qbiken · October 2018

You know, a toggle wouldn't really require a balance rework if ZOS were smart about it. Counters again. Have it so that elite mobs, quest bosses, dungeon bosses, and players have things they can do to knock a werewolf player back to being human. So werewolf becomes less about OH MY GOD I MUST EAT every moment, which is really bad for anyone with anxiety (like my partner), and more about keeping a watchful eye for anything that could depower you.

Making werewolf a toggle would make them absurdly OP in PvP however. As it stand right now, if you want to have a good werewolf build for PvP you need to invest into all aspects of what makes a good build (resource management, offense/defence) and compared to many other playstyles you make "sacrifices" in human form to become better once transformed (if you aim to stay longer duration in WW-form aka "permawolf"), with one exception:

If you only use the werewolf ultimate as a burst tool.
If I only use the werewolf as a burst tool, I don´t have to change any aspect of my "non-WW setup" to make good use of the werewolf ultimate. Only downside here is that you can´t stay in WW-form for long since you don´t have the means to survive once your "human buffs" runs out. If build correctly you can kill very tanky people very fast. Now another downside as it stands today is that the ultimate is rather costly, so you can´t really transform too often.

Now imagine if the ultimate was a toggle. I can go into "20 seconds of god-mode" on demand and kill any build in a 1v1 or a 1v2. And if I get too pressured I just transform back to human and re-apply my buffs, since I know that I´ll be able to transform back to werewolf whenever I like. I´ve yet to see a solution to the "toggle-aspect" that doesn´t involve an incredible complicated solution that would cause more harm than good.

Qbiken · October 2018

Something I would like to see are new models and maybe "Werewolf-Skins" being added to the game. The skins could be connected to certain achievement that involves killing a specific amount of creatures. Here are a few ideas:

While in werewolf form

* Kill X amount of Daedra and Undead while in werewolf-form

* Kill X amount of Wildlife creatures (Spriggan´s, Strangler´s, Trolls etc)

* Kill X amount of Atronach creatures (Frost-, Flame-, Lightning- , -stone and storm atronachs)

* Kill X amount of other werewolfs/wolves

* Kill X amount of enemy players in PvP areas

Each achievement would unlock a unique skin for your werewolf. Now I´m not very good at coming up with how the skins would look, but I´m quite sure a design team would work that out just fine

ScardyFox · October 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

Something I would like to see are new models and maybe "Werewolf-Skins" being added to the game. The skins could be connected to certain achievement that involves killing a specific amount of creatures. Here are a few ideas:

While in werewolf form

* Kill X amount of Daedra and Undead while in werewolf-form

* Kill X amount of Wildlife creatures (Spriggan´s, Strangler´s, Trolls etc)

* Kill X amount of Atronach creatures (Frost-, Flame-, Lightning- , -stone and storm atronachs)

* Kill X amount of other werewolfs/wolves

* Kill X amount of enemy players in PvP areas

Each achievement would unlock a unique skin for your werewolf. Now I´m not very good at coming up with how the skins would look, but I´m quite sure a design team would work that out just fine

Its a good idea, but if they ever bother to update our skins(for brevity sake) it'll be some annoying crownstore thing.

ccfeeling · October 2018

PVE perspective
I have never see WW in my guild vet trial score run / vet trial HM .

When the new WW came out , some players complained that WW are OP even Alcast

Does 1 buttom build viable in hard content ? I would say NO , one more thing , Savage Strength passive is still bugged in console , I can't spend much time on testing with a bugged model , I stopped testing WW after I clear VMA for 3 hours .
The resistance was a joke , good job combat team

WW could hits 45-50k dmg to a single target with right setup when the target and Im not moving , but we have only 1 bar , not much support to the team, bad at self healing ( twice ? 3 Max ? ) , Devour time is too long , devour mechanics was the worst design in the game , how we use it in end game content !?

Normal stam dps could hit harder and provide more supports or strong survivability , WW are never OP and they really need some buffs .

ScardyFox · October 2018

Speaking of the devour mechanic - the easiest way to make it better (if they insist on keeping it) is to change the animation. Bend down, mouth opens, crunch and the head rips up sharply with a twist as you stand back up with a big splatter of blood.

A faster more vicious animation - you're taking a big chunk along with getting a big chunk on timer.

Something akin to this at the 17second mark but faster and only one large bite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J59NxwDNazg

Andele · October 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I'd say don't lock it behind race restrictions.

Maybe optional side quests to unlock the other skins then, but IMO first unlock should be the racial/lore one.

DocFrost72 · October 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

You know, a toggle wouldn't really require a balance rework if ZOS were smart about it. Counters again. Have it so that elite mobs, quest bosses, dungeon bosses, and players have things they can do to knock a werewolf player back to being human. So werewolf becomes less about OH MY GOD I MUST EAT every moment, which is really bad for anyone with anxiety (like my partner), and more about keeping a watchful eye for anything that could depower you.

Now imagine if the ultimate was a toggle. I can go into "20 seconds of god-mode" on demand and kill any build in a 1v1 or a 1v2. And if I get too pressured I just transform back to human and re-apply my buffs, since I know that I´ll be able to transform back to werewolf whenever I like. I´ve yet to see a solution to the "toggle-aspect" that doesn´t involve an incredible complicated solution that would cause more harm than good.

300 ult cost that would reset when you exit wolf form fixes everything you've listed. Are there other concerns you have?

Qbiken · October 2018

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

You know, a toggle wouldn't really require a balance rework if ZOS were smart about it. Counters again. Have it so that elite mobs, quest bosses, dungeon bosses, and players have things they can do to knock a werewolf player back to being human. So werewolf becomes less about OH MY GOD I MUST EAT every moment, which is really bad for anyone with anxiety (like my partner), and more about keeping a watchful eye for anything that could depower you.

Now imagine if the ultimate was a toggle. I can go into "20 seconds of god-mode" on demand and kill any build in a 1v1 or a 1v2. And if I get too pressured I just transform back to human and re-apply my buffs, since I know that I´ll be able to transform back to werewolf whenever I like. I´ve yet to see a solution to the "toggle-aspect" that doesn´t involve an incredible complicated solution that would cause more harm than good.

300 ult cost that would reset when you exit wolf form fixes everything you've listed. Are there other concerns you have?

How is that any different from how it is now? It cost 300 ultimate and is reset to 0 ultimate when you exit werewolf form. That´s not the definition of a toggle afaik.

DocFrost72 · October 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

You know, a toggle wouldn't really require a balance rework if ZOS were smart about it. Counters again. Have it so that elite mobs, quest bosses, dungeon bosses, and players have things they can do to knock a werewolf player back to being human. So werewolf becomes less about OH MY GOD I MUST EAT every moment, which is really bad for anyone with anxiety (like my partner), and more about keeping a watchful eye for anything that could depower you.

Now imagine if the ultimate was a toggle. I can go into "20 seconds of god-mode" on demand and kill any build in a 1v1 or a 1v2. And if I get too pressured I just transform back to human and re-apply my buffs, since I know that I´ll be able to transform back to werewolf whenever I like. I´ve yet to see a solution to the "toggle-aspect" that doesn´t involve an incredible complicated solution that would cause more harm than good.

300 ult cost that would reset when you exit wolf form fixes everything you've listed. Are there other concerns you have?

How is that any different from how it is now? It cost 300 ultimate and is reset to 0 ultimate when you exit werewolf form. That´s not the definition of a toggle afaik.

It would eliminate the werewolf timer, costing 300 (or if needed for balance, more) to transform. It both aleviates the timer issue, and guards against your listed concerns of "dipping into" werewolf form (which I agree is an issue).

Chrlynsch · October 2018

I've said this before and I will say it again. Werewolves should be able to generate ultimate while in werewolf form.

PvP:

If I drop a meteor on 10 player's heads and kill them, I am rewarded with another meteor.

If I transform into a werewolf and kill 10 players, should I have not earned another transformation? Instead we are left to searching the battlefield for scraps unrewarded and unready for the next engagement.

PvE:

This would let werewolf oriented players revert form every now and then during breaks, looting time, and other such times without having to go earn 300 Ultimate in order to transform again.

This would help with timer anxiety, reward skilled wolf gameplay, and prevent wolves from flipping back and forth in form to keep human buffs up as they still have to hit 300 ult before transforming again (number one argument against toggle).

Mr_Wolfe · October 2018

This concern about toggle werewolves dropping form to buff up is pretty unfounded imo.

De-wolfing in the middle of a fight is a good way to get dead. You effectively stun yourself while changing back, and would have to try and reapply buffs while at -15% resistances and -30% movement speed. (Assuming they ever fix the savage strength passive.)

A toggle would only be good for conserving timer and buffing up between fights. Even then, I don't see how it could be op when that '20 seconds of god mode' barely touches the kind of damage meta builds can dish out without requiring 4+ seconds of vulnerability and buffing between bursts.

Also, those 20 seconds are really closer to 15.

For example: a stamsorc werewolf running crit surge, deadly cloak, and hurricane would take about 5 seconds to de-wolf, buff up, and transform back. Once you finished getting furry again deadly cloak and hurricane would have about 14 seconds left. Being generous, that's 75% uptime on your werewolf burst, with 15% spent desperately blockcasting buffs, and 10% of your time spent transforming.

I do like the suggestion @Chrlynsch made about letting werewolves gain ultimate while in form. It's a good middle ground and would make ulti gen sets (like hide of the werewolf, lol) actually useful for werewolves instead of them becoming a dead slot once you transform.

Aznox · October 2018

I'm not going to argue about this for the hundredth time, but i'll just say i agree with Qbiken and Chrlynsch.

The strength of a fully buffed werewolf is being able to transform {a build being able to tank nearly anything} into {a build being able to kill nearly anything}

Trust me, such a build would not have any trouble surviving long enough to buff-up and de-buff the opponent before toggling back to werewolf to deliver a devastating burst.

Old - but still valid - video for illustration :

https://clips.twitch.tv/DeadBillowingTrianglePastaThat

Mr_Wolfe · October 2018

@Aznox That's actually a good point. I was mainly thinking about Qbiken's post where he talked about reverting back to recast your buffs if you found yourself getting too pressured in wolf form. Seems to me that if you're getting too much pressure in wolf form, you're not going to survive long out of it.

On the other hand, a tanky build can pull off some pretty decent burst damage by popping wolf, and would be more able to survive de-wolfing to buff up again. In theory, with a toggle-able wolf you could take on a group by bursting them down a few at a time. Downside is that any surviving opponents would be able to buff up and recover as well.

Thing is, if you can survive being focused by multiple opponents in human form, it's not werewolf that's overpowered--it's the rest of your build.