[Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread

ColoniaCroisant

A werewolf tank option would be really appreciated, maybe use the new behemoth character model? Also werebears! Werebears! WEREBEARS!!!!

Thanks!

ghoti_stixb14_ESO

i keep seeing arguments that a toggle-able WW form would be bad because you could just buff up, pop into wolf form and kill things, pop back out to buff up again and then pop right back into wolf. and that's a valid argument against a toggle form. but, instead of just saying "this one way of making a WW toggle-able is bad so we shouldn't do it at all" we should, maybe, look at ways to make it work. for example:

you can toggle on wolf any time you want, but if you toggle wolf off you get a debuff that slowly fades over time (this would seem to fit most werewolf lore where turning back human is draining and not a fun thing). this would make it a bad idea to toggle off in-combat.

or maybe, you can toggle it on and off whenever you want except for right after you toggled it last. put a timer on the toggle so that you can't change form (either direction) for, say, two minutes. that lets you stay in the form as long as you want but doesn't let you swap back and forth in-combat.

or you could even make it so that any of your own active power buffs simply end when you toggle wolf on, thus eliminating the benefit of turning human in-combat to rebuff.

any of these ideas seem like they would be viable ways to prevent any in-combat rebuff popping while eliminating the need to stop and eat things... constantly. you could even change it so that the eating gives a short buff instead of needing it to stay wolf. it also seems, to me at least, that making wolf form toggle-able would encourage people to make wolf form specific builds vs builds that don't use wolf at all except for brief bursts of high DPS, or builds that can survive outside of wolf just long enough to pop wolf again, which is how i see it being used now.

Mr_Wolfe

That would be an interesting compromise. The biggest hurdles to maintaining form these days are situations where there is a long gap between fights: Running between keeps in cyrodiil, fighting players who stealth out and wait for your timer to run down, long load screens, scripted delays in quests/dungeons/arenas/trials where you have to wait for the next batch of enemies to show up, etc. My biggest concern with adding a cooldown or some kind of debuff is that it would punish werewolves who lost form normally. Losing wolf because of something beyond your control is frustrating enough as it is.

Honestly, as much as I like the idea of making werewolf a toggle, I think just letting us earn ultimate while transformed would be a decent compromise. You wouldn't be able to cycle in and out every 15 seconds to recast buffs, but you could earn another transformation by fighting long enough.

Getting back to specific pain points:

1) The Berserker morph needs a serious buff to bring it back on par with Pack Leader. It currently does about 5k DPS less and lacks the utility of the direwolf pets.

2) Werewolf is still underperforming compared to other ultimates. Alcast's 55k slapwolf video was cute, but most players are not getting anywhere near those numbers even with the same cheesy setup--and non-slapwolf builds are even further behind. Our damage is sub-par, and we lack access to basic utilities that literally any non-WW can use. (ie: stuns, taunts, reveals, self-buffs, stealth, etc)

If we're going to be pigeonholed as somewhat tanky single target melee DPS, our damage output needs to at least be competitive to make up for the lack of range and aoe.

Also: Fix the damn bugs.

Aznox

Berserker is arguably better than Pack leader outside dummy parsing.

PvE Werewolf is easy-mode 35-40k dps, you can't make it better given how easy it is. I find it's current niche/spot to be a good compromise.

Jaraal

Aznox wrote: »

Berserker is arguably better than Pack leader outside dummy parsing.

PvE Werewolf is easy-mode 35-40k dps, you can't make it better given how easy it is. I find it's current niche/spot to be a good compromise.

There's a way with alchemy to keep werewolf up for several minutes between each feed/pounce/fight.

But..... Pack Leader is better for the simple fact that your wolves can tank for a short while while you feed on corpses. And overall, the DPS may be better, but the DPHour still favors non-wolf form, due to so much potential fighting time spent devouring instead of killing.

And, please, let us in on this alchemical secret!

ghoti_stixb14_ESO

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Honestly, as much as I like the idea of making werewolf a toggle, I think just letting us earn ultimate while transformed would be a decent compromise. You wouldn't be able to cycle in and out every 15 seconds to recast buffs, but you could earn another transformation by fighting long enough.

while i agree completely that letting us earn ultimate while in wolf form would be better than it is now, there are still several scenarios in which it would be insufficient. for example, you go into a dungeon with the idea of grinding for a while, pop into wolf form and kill a single group of enemies (not enough to refill ultimate) and then notice the other group that just wiped out everything else on the map and there is nothing to kill before wolf from expires. or, your group is all ready to go, everyone buffs up to start the fight, including you going into wolf form, and then there is some slight delay. everyone else can just rebuff a few seconds later but you are out until you've rebuilt ultimate.

but the main reason i can see for making wolf form a toggle is that the wolf powers are the only powers in the game that as a group are locked behind a time limit. with the exception of actual ultimate powers that have to be charged up, here are five powers, and several passives, that you have to put points into to unlock and morph, that you can only use in the one special circumstance of "while an ultimate is active". no other set of powers in the game are locked this way, and i don't think this one should be either.

not to even mention the fact that vampire passives are always active and werewolf passives are only active while in wolf form.

Aznox

Jaraal wrote: »

But..... Pack Leader is better for the simple fact that your wolves can tank for a short while while you feed on corpses. And overall, the DPS may be better, but the DPHour still favors non-wolf form, due to so much potential fighting time spent devouring instead of killing.

As long as the fight is going you almost never need to feed. One pounce every 10 sec from target to target or after evading an AoE can keep perma wolf.

Jaraal

Aznox wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

But..... Pack Leader is better for the simple fact that your wolves can tank for a short while while you feed on corpses. And overall, the DPS may be better, but the DPHour still favors non-wolf form, due to so much potential fighting time spent devouring instead of killing.

As long as the fight is going you almost never need to feed. One pounce every 10 sec from target to target or after evading an AoE can keep perma wolf.

Ahh, that makes sense. I took Brutal instead of Feral because I do most of my fighting in Public or Group dungeons, facing trash packs the majority of the time. So I went with the AOE rather than the transformation extension.

ScardyFox

Pack Leader seems broken again - anyone else having issues? Was duoing DSA and the wolves were staying unsummoned when killed.

ffs Zos...

Mr_Wolfe

Aznox wrote: »

Berserker is arguably better than Pack leader outside dummy parsing.

How do you figure? Berserker werewolves do less damage and lack the utility of pets to distract their enemies. Where's the upside?

Aznox wrote: »

PvE Werewolf is easy-mode 35-40k dps, you can't make it better given how easy it is. I find it's current niche/spot to be a good compromise.

I run with a number of werewolf-focused guilds on xbox na, and most of the slapwolf (kena + bloodmoon + perfect relequen) builds we've seen are pulling closer to 25-30k dps. That's a good 10k less than what you've claimed as 'easy mode,' and far below the 50+ Alcast posted. Frankly, I'm beginning to think PC folks are faking their parses.

Claiming that werewolf is an easy way to get endgame dps is simply not true and an insult to everyone who's spent years honing their builds and skill to make their werewolf characters effective. The highest werewolf parses I've seen come from non-slapwolf builds with actual rotations, and even slapwolf requires farming two DLC dungeons and a DLC trial on vet.

If you can put that together I'd say you've earned your pure light attack rotation.

ScardyFox wrote: »

Pack Leader seems broken again - anyone else having issues? Was duoing DSA and the wolves were staying unsummoned when killed.

ffs Zos...

I thought I noticed that happening during a recent all-wolf DSA run, but wasn't sure and they eventually came back. I know they used to get stuck on the last boss in Bloodroot Forge, where they'd just stand around in the center of the room not attacking anything, but I haven't been back there in a few months. I'll definitely keep an eye out, especially after Murkmire drops on console since we're supposed to finally get the ability to command our direwolves by heavy attacking.

Aznox

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

I run with a number of werewolf-focused guilds on xbox na, and most of the slapwolf (kena + bloodmoon + perfect relequen) builds we've seen are pulling closer to 25-30k dps. That's a good 10k less than what you've claimed as 'easy mode,' and far below the 50+ Alcast posted. Frankly, I'm beginning to think PC folks are faking their parses.

Half impen traits, PvP CP distribution, Automaton instead of Relequen, etc... i'm not even trying

Kolache

Aznox wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

I run with a number of werewolf-focused guilds on xbox na, and most of the slapwolf (kena + bloodmoon + perfect relequen) builds we've seen are pulling closer to 25-30k dps. That's a good 10k less than what you've claimed as 'easy mode,' and far below the 50+ Alcast posted. Frankly, I'm beginning to think PC folks are faking their parses.

Half impen traits, PvP CP distribution, Automaton instead of Relequen, etc... i'm not even trying

I'm guessing the disconnect is due to the target dummy used?

Aznox

Kolache wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

I run with a number of werewolf-focused guilds on xbox na, and most of the slapwolf (kena + bloodmoon + perfect relequen) builds we've seen are pulling closer to 25-30k dps. That's a good 10k less than what you've claimed as 'easy mode,' and far below the 50+ Alcast posted. Frankly, I'm beginning to think PC folks are faking their parses.

Half impen traits, PvP CP distribution, Automaton instead of Relequen, etc... i'm not even trying

I'm guessing the disconnect is due to the target dummy used?

No, the target dummy is only important when doing a non-werewolf parse and the consensus is to use a 6M health dummy to prove you can sustain your rotation over a long period.

Here a 3M health dummy is fine because sustain is not even a question, i'm not using a single skill for the whole parse !

Mr_Wolfe

@Aznox I'm confused too, and more than a little frustrated. The experience on xbox one does not match what we are hearing and seeing from pc players, which leads me to wonder if there is an actual difference between platforms or just some difference in our testing methods. This is doubly frustrating since consoles are not included in the PTS, and most of the feedback ZOS seems to listen to is coming from the pc "x is overpowered, y is too easy" crowd.

I'd be very interested in doing some comparisons with somebody on pc. Same build/gear/cp, same type of target skeleton, hold down heavy attack to eliminate any differences in rotation/execution, etc.

Defilted

Bezerker in PVP is good in my experience. Bleeds are fantastic. Kill people off with bleeds all the time.

I would like to see a longer timer.

I would also like to see a slight reduction in ability costs. Maybe another 5%? More on the magika side than stamina.

Though heavy after every combo keeps my resources up.

Aznox

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

@Aznox I'm confused too, and more than a little frustrated. The experience on xbox one does not match what we are hearing and seeing from pc players, which leads me to wonder if there is an actual difference between platforms or just some difference in our testing methods. This is doubly frustrating since consoles are not included in the PTS, and most of the feedback ZOS seems to listen to is coming from the pc "x is overpowered, y is too easy" crowd.

I'd be very interested in doing some comparisons with somebody on pc. Same build/gear/cp, same type of target skeleton, hold down heavy attack to eliminate any differences in rotation/execution, etc.

How is spamming light attack on a controller ? Can you fully benefit from Blood Moon ?
I'm always ready for any test or deep dive in game mechanics, just ask.

Chrlynsch

Aznox wrote: »

I might add that would anyone

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

@Aznox I'm confused too, and more than a little frustrated. The experience on xbox one does not match what we are hearing and seeing from pc players, which leads me to wonder if there is an actual difference between platforms or just some difference in our testing methods. This is doubly frustrating since consoles are not included in the PTS, and most of the feedback ZOS seems to listen to is coming from the pc "x is overpowered, y is too easy" crowd.

I'd be very interested in doing some comparisons with somebody on pc. Same build/gear/cp, same type of target skeleton, hold down heavy attack to eliminate any differences in rotation/execution, etc.

How is spamming light attack on a controller ? Can you fully benefit from Blood Moon ?
I'm always ready for any test or deep dive in game mechanics, just ask.

This was my initial thought on the main difference, between lower frames, higher latency, and suboptimal trigger speed could lead to a larger gap in dps between the platforms.

Qbiken

while i agree completely that letting us earn ultimate while in wolf form would be better than it is now, there are still several scenarios in which it would be insufficient. for example, you go into a dungeon with the idea of grinding for a while, pop into wolf form and kill a single group of enemies (not enough to refill ultimate) and then notice the other group that just wiped out everything else on the map and there is nothing to kill before wolf from expires. or, your group is all ready to go, everyone buffs up to start the fight, including you going into wolf form, and then there is some slight delay. everyone else can just rebuff a few seconds later but you are out until you've rebuilt ultimate.

I can get the idea that some people want to use werewolf in overland content or farming public dungeons without having to worry about losing their form (or whatever you like to do). While I mainly use werewolf for PvP, I do enjoy completing PvE content as a werewolf.

I can assure you that all PvE/Overland content in this game is doable in WW-form. I´ve done almost all vet-dungeons (with the exception of a few DLC ones) as a werewolf without losing form (transforming right before first trash-pack). Certain dungeons are more difficult than others, but definitely doable. I´ll will stick to my old statement that remaining in WW-form is a L2P-issue (not meant in a toxic way, just wanted to point that out), whether it comes to PvE or PvP. And sometimes you just have to accept that you can´t remain in WW-form forever and during all circumstances.

I agree with the suggestion to let werewolfs gain ultimate in WW-form, but I would like to see it being halved compared to human form, in order to balance things out. Because let´s face it, werewolf has access to a very powerful toolkit if you know how to utilize it properly.

but the main reason i can see for making wolf form a toggle is that the wolf powers are the only powers in the game that as a group are locked behind a time limit. with the exception of actual ultimate powers that have to be charged up, here are five powers, and several passives, that you have to put points into to unlock and morph, that you can only use in the one special circumstance of "while an ultimate is active". no other set of powers in the game are locked this way, and i don't think this one should be either.

not to even mention the fact that vampire passives are always active and werewolf passives are only active while in wolf form

This is what makes werewolf unique in my opinion. Using it during the right circumstances is what adds the skilful aspect of the ultimate.

Vampires always have their downsides applied 100% of the time as well, while werewolfs only have them while transformed. So there´s your trade off basically. Werewolfs used to have 15% stamina regen at all times, but that doesn´t really promote people to play werewolf imo (most people became werewolfs only for that passive, but never utilized ww-form)

Qbiken

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

I might add that would anyone

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

@Aznox I'm confused too, and more than a little frustrated. The experience on xbox one does not match what we are hearing and seeing from pc players, which leads me to wonder if there is an actual difference between platforms or just some difference in our testing methods. This is doubly frustrating since consoles are not included in the PTS, and most of the feedback ZOS seems to listen to is coming from the pc "x is overpowered, y is too easy" crowd.

I'd be very interested in doing some comparisons with somebody on pc. Same build/gear/cp, same type of target skeleton, hold down heavy attack to eliminate any differences in rotation/execution, etc.

How is spamming light attack on a controller ? Can you fully benefit from Blood Moon ?
I'm always ready for any test or deep dive in game mechanics, just ask.

This was my initial thought on the main difference, between lower frames, higher latency, and suboptimal trigger speed could lead to a larger gap in dps between the platforms.

If I can pull 45-50k DPS on a target dummy with potato FPS and ping (and I mean sub 20 FPS and 200 ping), so can console players

IlCanis_LupuslI

I'm at 51.4k on my stamsorc ww^^ agreed staying in ww form is a l2p issue

IlCanis_LupuslI

I'm on console btw

Tommy_The_Gun

So here is my feedback regarding post Wolfhunter DLC werewolf state. Biggest pain points:

1. No access to taunt - this makes it impossible for werewolf to fulfil a tank role and basically limits its use to only one role with almost no build diversity - stamina DPS. Adding a taunt would allow to use werewolf as a tank and it would bring more diversity to werewolf builds and playstyles.
Some ideas:

1.Slightly buff Werewolf Berserker morph to be desirable as a choice for DPS role and add a taunt to a heavy attack to Pack Leader morph.
2. Add a taunt effect to one of existing werewolf skills morph - pounce or infectious claws are a good candidates but pretty much any skill would do.
3. Since weapon skills passives do not carry over to werewolf form you can not equip destruction staff for Tri Focus passive and use frost staff taunt.
Why not add an effect to one of werewolf passive that will simply check if you have a shield equipped ? So if could work like this:

If you have a shield equipped reduce the cost of blocking by %. Also your heavy attacks taunt enemies If you don't have shield equipped your light attacks restore X stamina.

Basically if you have shield equipped when using werewolf ultimate you would get a taunt on heavy attack and some % of reduced block cost (not much maybe like 10% will do because werewolf already have extra dmg mitigation so you would take less dmg anyway).
DPS role on the other hand would not have shield equipped so you would get some other bonus, more suitable for DPS role (light attack restoring more stamina is just an example - it might be something different that will help to sustain your rotation).

2. Werewolf form sustain in PvP - After the change to werewolf's Blood Rage passive was introduced - sustaining werewolf form in PvP has become significantly more difficult. Werewolf relied heavily on taking dmg in PvP to keep werewolf form longer. Now people need to deal dmg to keep werewolf form longer. Often that is not possible because of snare / root and various other crowd control effects.
Werewolf is melee and you actually need to be close to your enemy to hit them and gain some additional werewolf timer. Also due to werewolf passive changes - blocking in Werewolf form (extremely useful in PvP) no longer extends your werewolf timer since you don't deal dmg.
Some ideas:

1. Change the werewolf's Blood Rage passive to proc on dmg dealt & revived (not only when you deal dmg).
2. Add some way to remove snares while in werewolf form (something similar to forward momentum that removes all snares and adds brief snare & immobilization immunity). It could be added to one of the Werewolf skills morph.

Btw. Seeing all the Werewolf changes in Wolfhunter I get a feeling that the whole werewolf feedback thread was taken over by DPS players. All the changes that were made are leaning towards DPS only - and that is not good as it kills diversity. Originally werewolf was designed as a tank - dps hybrid. So it would makes sense that werewolf could fulfil both of those roles (tank or dps) - in both PvE and PvP.

AuldWolf

@Tommy_The_Gun

That's actually not true. The DPS part, I meant.

What happened was this...

Community: "We want a taunt. We want a toggle, or at least the ability to generate ultimates in werewolf form so we don't have to rely on feeding at all. We want better sustain even if it's at the cost of DPS. We're fine with werewolf as a stamina creature vs. the magicka of vampires (improve vampires too if need be). We'd also like more cosmetic options for the look of our werewolf."

Rep: "I've listened and I'm going to take your thoughts back to the developers! You don't want a toggle. You don't want werewolf's sustain to change. You want more DPS. You want feeding improved. You want us to add more magicka usage to the build. You want us to change things up a bit to make magicka more versatile."

Community: "Um... Could we have someone who listens to us and doesn't operate on purely their own agenda to represent us? That'd be nice."

Don't blame the community for this one. It's just the rep's agenda contrary to what the community wants.

Things like this are why I pretty much gave up on ESO. It's too focused around the elitism of exclusive, unfair prestige, not enough focused on what would be fun for the majority of the community. Appointing reps was just another example of that prestige. And what does exclusive, unfair prestige do? It attracts those with dark triad traits as exclusive, unfair prestige is what they live for.

ESO would be a better game if they removed all systems of unfair, exclusive prestige. Especially those that involve risk/reward as that's where dark triad personalities thrive. They live for it. You'd have a kinder and nicer community that was more open to people. You could then count on that, ZOS, to build up your community numbers rather than the exploitative system of pushing content out the door before it's done without fixing anything.

I mean, if you appoint reps of course they're going to operate under their own agenda rather than listen to anyone else. That's pretty much what reps do. I mean... Politics???? Politicians?????? I saw this coming from a mile away.

Qbiken

Community: "We want a taunt. We want a toggle, or at least the ability to generate ultimates in werewolf form so we don't have to rely on feeding at all. We want better sustain even if it's at the cost of DPS. We're fine with werewolf as a stamina creature vs. the magicka of vampires (improve vampires too if need be). We'd also like more cosmetic options for the look of our werewolf."

More like:
The more experienced werewolfs do not want it to be a toggle, sustain is fine and we want to have more meaningful choices when it comes to which morph to choose of the different skills. We want minor changes because we know that there´s a thin line between werewolf being balanced and being too good.

No hidden agenda when it comes to the changes that was made, ZOS listened quite well. Some of the changes wasn´t implemented exactly as expected, but when you look at it a different way, ZOS listened. Werewolf is in an amazing spot for both PvE and PvP. Only thing I want is some cosmetic changes (werewolf skins).

Witar

Add 20 seconds to duration\refill duration bar after killing a player
Would be nice

Mr_Wolfe

@Qbiken You and the other 3-4 guys that dominate WW discussion on these forums are not the only experienced werewolf players, or even the majority. A lot of us would like a toggle.

As for ZOS listening, they did just about everything the class reps said we didn't want. I guess that's listening of a sort.

@Aznox Light attacks on the Xbox controller feel responsive, but I haven't played ESO with a mouse since beta, so it's hard to say how it compares. The trigger buttons on the Xbox controller definitely have a longer 'action', so it's possible there's a difference there.

I'd also be curious if lag is more of a factor. I frequently have an issue where my light attacks will stop firing for a brief moment, then suddenly speed up as though there was a minor lag spike and the game is hitting fast forward to catch me up to the server. Dunno if that's a network problem or my Xbox struggling to render everything.

I would definitely be interested in doing some kind of controlled test to see if there's a difference between PC and console, though I think we'll need to wait until Murkmire comes out on console to make sure we're both running roughly the same patch.

Is it possible to PM on this forum or should we start a new thread to discuss the details?

DocFrost72

Qbiken wrote: »

Community: "We want a taunt. We want a toggle, or at least the ability to generate ultimates in werewolf form so we don't have to rely on feeding at all. We want better sustain even if it's at the cost of DPS. We're fine with werewolf as a stamina creature vs. the magicka of vampires (improve vampires too if need be). We'd also like more cosmetic options for the look of our werewolf."

More like:
The more experienced werewolfs

No hate, but I hope you see how this comes across as condescending in an unbelievably irritating sense when you reread it.

I consider myself an "experienced werewolf", but I wouldn't ever gatekeep requests based on my opinion. I never mind discussion or dissenting views, so long as they come from a logical place.

Why should it not be a toggle that costs 300 ultimate to activate into form? Help me see your side.

Qbiken

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Community: "We want a taunt. We want a toggle, or at least the ability to generate ultimates in werewolf form so we don't have to rely on feeding at all. We want better sustain even if it's at the cost of DPS. We're fine with werewolf as a stamina creature vs. the magicka of vampires (improve vampires too if need be). We'd also like more cosmetic options for the look of our werewolf."

More like:
The more experienced werewolfs

No hate, but I hope you see how this comes across as condescending in an unbelievably irritating sense when you reread it.

I consider myself an "experienced werewolf", but I wouldn't ever gatekeep requests based on my opinion. I never mind discussion or dissenting views, so long as they come from a logical place.

Why should it not be a toggle that costs 300 ultimate to activate into form? Help me see your side.

I´ll take back the poor wording from me (clumpsy written)

Ive written several times why I think toggle is a bad idea in this thread however, will not re-write it a 3rd/4th time.

DocFrost72

I remember leaving the conversation we had at the exact question I made above actually.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

You know, a toggle wouldn't really require a balance rework if ZOS were smart about it. Counters again. Have it so that elite mobs, quest bosses, dungeon bosses, and players have things they can do to knock a werewolf player back to being human. So werewolf becomes less about OH MY GOD I MUST EAT every moment, which is really bad for anyone with anxiety (like my partner), and more about keeping a watchful eye for anything that could depower you.

Now imagine if the ultimate was a toggle. I can go into "20 seconds of god-mode" on demand and kill any build in a 1v1 or a 1v2. And if I get too pressured I just transform back to human and re-apply my buffs, since I know that I´ll be able to transform back to werewolf whenever I like. I´ve yet to see a solution to the "toggle-aspect" that doesn´t involve an incredible complicated solution that would cause more harm than good.

300 ult cost that would reset when you exit wolf form fixes everything you've listed. Are there other concerns you have?

How is that any different from how it is now? It cost 300 ultimate and is reset to 0 ultimate when you exit werewolf form. That´s not the definition of a toggle afaik.

It would eliminate the werewolf timer, costing 300 (or if needed for balance, more) to transform. It both aleviates the timer issue, and guards against your listed concerns of "dipping into" werewolf form (which I agree is an issue).

(Quoted for visibility).

Amdar_Godkiller

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

@Aznox I'm confused too, and more than a little frustrated. The experience on xbox one does not match what we are hearing and seeing from pc players, which leads me to wonder if there is an actual difference between platforms or just some difference in our testing methods. This is doubly frustrating since consoles are not included in the PTS, and most of the feedback ZOS seems to listen to is coming from the pc "x is overpowered, y is too easy" crowd.

I'd be very interested in doing some comparisons with somebody on pc. Same build/gear/cp, same type of target skeleton, hold down heavy attack to eliminate any differences in rotation/execution, etc.

Do you have ideal CP distribution? I'm on XBX NA and pull 30K in my PVP gear (Darkstride, Prisoner's, Kena) with full impen and all prismatic enchantments without either Blood Moon or Relequen. It's about a 10K dps difference between ideal WW CP setup and stam dps CP distribution.

GT: KraftySynystra