- Allow use of synergies
- Allow rez
- Fix bugs
- Fix animations
- Change Blood Rage from damage received to damage dealt (= PvE perma wolf)
- Make Tormentor set work with the leap (= taunt)
- Optional : revisit the unused morphs.
/thread ?
One down, 5 more to go !I think his is clearly going in the good direction !improving their ferocity and momentum in combat
There is a problem with this change in pvp though. If I’m close to loosing form I can currently pop my head around a corner and take some damage without being in the thick of it. Like get hit with a Flame reach and the break LOS while still getting time added.
Now if I’m close to loosing form I have to get from LOS into the enemies to keep form. Not a good change imo.
Should be a little of both.
This is a good change in PvP too, a single claw and you're good for more than 10 sec.
Unless your fighting a Templar. Who now has the ability to remove it.
I’m out of light of sight. Currently if I poke my head around the corner most the time I got vampires bane and can break LOS while still gaining time.
Now I have to come out of the tower gap close the Templar put a dot on him( only for them to cleanse it) and get back to LOS.
Unless your fighting a Templar. Who now has the ability to remove it.
AmericanSpy wrote: »- Ability Morphs: Extremely limited uses for HALF of the WW ability morphs.
The only skill that has a usable alternate(to the meta) morph is claws(where "life" is used for PVE and "anguish" is used for PVP). Howl: has a morph that REQUIRES and activation, which your other W friends can't activate(even though the skill would be usable otherwise.) Roar: The buff for 20 sec brutality made this skill a 1 sided morph. The problem is that Ferocious is utterly useless outside of specific builds around utilizing offset advantages(which are FEW.) Fortitude suffers a similar fate as the abysmal HOT is not worth sacrificing 10% wep dmg
- Resource Management: Skills just cost to much.
This has reared it ugly head with the changes that occurred with the removal of cost reduction. Many classes received cost changes, WW seems to have been forgotten. The bonuses for HA resource gain is great but useless since HA is to clunky to manage effectively(another issue)
I wish I could go on...but fixing the numerous KNOWN bugs and oversights (including passives that "go away" (like weapon passives) after you transform, its just confusing) should be the basis of a rework.(sorry that's kinda a 3rd)
- Hircine
Ok, let's say we wanted to make werewolf timer management easier in Cyrodiil, then allowing to build back ultimate normally while transformed would allow to transform again immediately at the start of the next fight.
This would be much more simple than the re-balancing nightmare that making it a toggle would be, as we already discussed in the last pages of this thread.
Current Werewolf :
All or nothing and extremely powerful but with a lot of bugs and too much limitations.
What i want :
All or nothing and extremely powerful , bug free and with less limitations (synergies, res, taunt, ..)
What you want :
On demand, tactical Werewolf, bug free and with less limitations.
I'm not saying your idea is bad, but even if ZoS could spare the devtime for such a major rework while they need months to fix a single bug on average, Werewolf would need to trade some power for it, simply because it cannot be made more than 5-10% stronger in 1v1 than they are currently.
That's why i think we should focus on things that would improve Werewolf Quality of Life but won't affect its 1v1 power too much.
Example of a new passive that would go this way :
Pursuit (additional effect) : When transformed, if there is an enemy within 28 meters affected by your bleeding, sprinting does not cost stamina. (or a reduced value, needs more balancing thought)
I think things like that could help in openworld or when getting focused by multiple players, without pushing werewolf over the top in 1v1 power.
I must have missed that part of the conversation. Could you point me to a page number? Because it seems to me that all this would do is bring werewolf more in line with the existing ults, no other re-balancing required. What am I missing that would make this such an issue compared to ults like overload, onslaught, shooting star, feral guardian, etc?
Allowing synergies, res, etc.. would be a buff to werewolf.All I want is for werewolf to be balanced. Tactical use of WW would be cool, but I suggested a toggle because there's precedent and it seemed like a relatively simple solution to most of the pain points mentioned in this thread. I don't know how this game is coded, but adjusting the code governing transformations and timer is probably much simpler than overhauling WW's interaction with multiple game mechanics to allow taunts, resses, synergies, etc. (I suspect it would be the difference between changing one subroutine and changing several.) Personally, I would love to be able to just stay in form and still do all those things, but I'm not sure the devs would go for it.
Werewolf is rare on dueling grounds for several reasons :Also, I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of WW's power, 1v1 or otherwise. If WW was that strong in 1v1 every stamina dueling build would be using it, instead of it rarely being seen outside of WW shrines.
It's true that i'm one the players spending the most time fighting as a wolf in PvP on PC EU, however i'd say i'm "only" very good, not a top player at all. My werewolf success comes first from experience, training and build creation.I'm a bit new to these forums, but I've seen your name around enough to know that you're considered one of the better WW players. If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that just about any build can become OP in the hands of a master, so please keep in mind that your personal experience running WW may not match up with the rest of us--or be a good indicator of WW's overall balance. That's not a L2P issue, that's a "Master samurai beating up dudes with a stick and then declaring that sticks are just as deadly as swords" issue, lol.
the stick could use some sharpening, but i'm convinced QoL, bugfixes and a few subtle touches could very well be enough, we will still be able to look for more after, if needed.Don't get me wrong, I like my stick, but it's nowhere near as powerful as what everyone else is running around with. :P
I am definitely excited for the change to the bloodrage passive, though it's going to be a bit of an adjustment for a lot of people. Most WW players I know tend to rely on DoTs to keep their timers up. With that tactic going out the window, we'll need to adjust how we play and stop leaping into fire. Also, the fact that we can't purge DoT's is going to be a lot more aggravating, because there's no longer an upside. In PvP, where DoTs are everywhere but melees are usually fairly brief and far between, this is going to feel like more of a nerf.
Okay here is my thoughts on werewolf currently
1. Cost of skills are way too high to maintain a prolonged fight ( I know some of you are going to saw werewolf isn't meant to fight in ww form forever) Changes to CP with removal of cost reduction could be a factor to also look at.....My point would love to see some of the skills cost less
3. HEAL lol we all know about the magicka heal on a stam based class...idk if changing it would make werewolf too strong but something with the heal needs to be done...maybe burst heal with a lingering heal like warden trees.....don't judge me
MAKE WEREWOLF GREAT......first post I know I'm all over the place will get better
Okay here is my thoughts on werewolf currently
1. Cost of skills are way too high to maintain a prolonged fight ( I know some of you are going to saw werewolf isn't meant to fight in ww form forever) Changes to CP with removal of cost reduction could be a factor to also look at.....My point would love to see some of the skills cost less
2. HEAL lol we all know about the magicka heal on a stam based class...idk if changing it would make werewolf too strong but something with the heal needs to be done...maybe burst heal with a lingering heal like warden trees.....don't judge me
MAKE WEREWOLF GREAT......first post I know I'm all over the place will get better
Okay here is my thoughts on werewolf currently
1. Cost of skills are way too high to maintain a prolonged fight ( I know some of you are going to saw werewolf isn't meant to fight in ww form forever) Changes to CP with removal of cost reduction could be a factor to also look at.....My point would love to see some of the skills cost less
You need to use the skills sparingly, and mainly rely on light attacks(and their bleed) for damage - they are brutal!
When low on stamina, put the enemy off-balance (either by using the WW fear, or dodging their attack if you have the CP passive) and then heavy attack them - it restores tons of stamina if you can pull it off.
3. HEAL lol we all know about the magicka heal on a stam based class...idk if changing it would make werewolf too strong but something with the heal needs to be done...maybe burst heal with a lingering heal like warden trees.....don't judge me
MAKE WEREWOLF GREAT......first post I know I'm all over the place will get better
The heal is actually one of the best heals in the game. You just don't perceive it that way because as a (stamina)WW your magicka pool/spell damage(which the heal scales off of) aren't that great. There are ways around that however...
Okay here is my thoughts on werewolf currently
1. Cost of skills are way too high to maintain a prolonged fight ( I know some of you are going to saw werewolf isn't meant to fight in ww form forever) Changes to CP with removal of cost reduction could be a factor to also look at.....My point would love to see some of the skills cost less
2. HEAL lol we all know about the magicka heal on a stam based class...idk if changing it would make werewolf too strong but something with the heal needs to be done...maybe burst heal with a lingering heal like warden trees.....don't judge me
MAKE WEREWOLF GREAT......first post I know I'm all over the place will get better
1. I´m a big advocate for the "permawolf" playstyle. With the correct build and experience it outperforms a "burst-wolf" 24/7. I would like to see a small cost-reduction to the skills (maybe 5-10% at most). Otherwise using heavy attacks against off-balanced enemies is the "secret" to sustain.
2 .Down below is a screenshot from Cyrodil on my current build (yes I´m using Pelinial). By using Pelinial I give up quite a lot of max stats and recovery but in return I get a lot out of Hircine´s Rage. A popular suggestion is to make the heal scale of weapon damage and max stamina. Now imagine if I could ditch Pelinial and still get the same heals. I can go for more sustain, more tankiness or even more damage if I´d like to. It would be like throwing balance out the window. Hircine´s Rage is an incredible powerful heal, you just need to adjust your build accordingly.
JXNwarrior wrote: »Pain Points:
1. Only usable heal scales off of magicka(?!)
2. Devour Synergy is unreliable.
Possible Solutions:
1. Scale the heal from Max or Missing Health, one morph applies a meaningful (not currently) HoT, other synergizes with other WWs
2. Increase reliability, range and speed up animation of Devour Synergy
They removed the 18% from the savage strength passive. Hircines rage had the 10% weapon damage increase (now major brutality). looks like they took out the the 100% stam gain from heavy attacks in Pursuit as well. Does anyone see if those passive bonuses were just moved else were?RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »They removed the 18% weapon damage boost from hircines rage..
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424230/pts-patch-notes-v4-1-0/p1
Lots of long awaited changes but they killed the miracle that was hybrid werewolf.
By removing the magicka scaling heal they made werewolf an "easy for everyone, great for no-one" thing.
Even as a stam build without Pelinal (shacklebreaker + tristats) the 45% heal is a nerf to me.
Also anyone who was having fun with a 64points-into-magicka werewolf can go back to vampire.
Sad, the other changes are good.
TIMBR0SLICE wrote: »They removed the 18% from the savage strength passive. Hircines rage had the 10% weapon damage increase (now major brutality). looks like they took out the the 100% stam gain from heavy attacks in Pursuit as well. Does anyone see if those passive bonuses were just moved else were?RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »They removed the 18% weapon damage boost from hircines rage..
I was under the impression they added the movement speed and defense buffs to those passives, not that they replaced the old effects.
[Edit] Yeah, they both say "This ability now also" does yadda yadda, so we aren't losing the previous/current effect of those passives.
Overall I'm a bit concerned about some of these changes. The more I look at them, the more most of them seem like nerfs.[/edit]
Werewolf is stronger than ever.
Werewolf is stronger than ever.
RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »I was under the impression they added the movement speed and defense buffs to those passives, not that they replaced the old effects.
[Edit] Yeah, they both say "This ability now also" does yadda yadda, so we aren't losing the previous/current effect of those passives.
Overall I'm a bit concerned about some of these changes. The more I look at them, the more most of them seem like nerfs.[/edit]
Honestly the removal of the 10% weapon damage bonus from Hircine's Rage is the most glaring nerf PvE wise (to me at least). Everything else seems to be more or less a buff though (for PvE). I'm interested to see what my SOLO wolf form up time and DPS are after the update.