What Do You Guys Feel Needs To Be Buffed With Sorc?

Priyasekarssk · September 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.

Facefister · September 2018

Mettaricana wrote: »

Give stam sorc a dmg shield and stam scaling pets.

This and/or a stamina spammable.

happyhughes2001 · September 2018

Apherius wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

Sorc is just easy mode

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

Sorc is very easy to play, does anybody find it challenging?

Currently the sorc is just a noob killer.... Ofc killing noob is easy and isn't challenging.

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

This ^

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

Great post

You can't just quote every nerf sorc comment and say you agree with, there is an agree button if this is what you want, or give us some of your suggestions and tell us why you think sorc is easy mode.

I can, and it was only two posts.

I do find sorc easy mode. Most people I play with think the same.

That’s just my opinion obviously yours differs.

DDuke · September 2018

Apherius wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )

Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.

It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.

Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?

Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.

If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.

I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.

Valrien · September 2018

I like all of these "git gud" posts when the information is already out there that Sorc DPS needs a ton of help. It's been confirmed even behind MagWarden

And in PvP sure the burst can "land on one GCD" but it's long and drawn out, which makes it insanely predictable and easy to break. Most noobs just don't know how to see it yet so they shout OP.

Sorc will pretty much never kill a good player.

And to everyone saying Shields are OP when stacked...when you spend half of your GCDs shielding, what do you not spend those GCDs doing? That's right, everything else. Shield stacking is inherently bad for Sorc...especially after the shortened times, and most stick to only Hardened Ward.

And if shields are so OP, then why does Magicka barely increase if at all with each patch while damage and healing just go further and further up? It's going to get to the point where shields go down in one hit and people will still say they're OP

Valrien · September 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )

Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.

It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.

Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?

Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.

If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.

I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.

I'm assuming guaranteed crit comes from Shadowy Disguise

Nicko_Lps · September 2018

Daus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

More damage.

Better sustain.

Highest burst in the game, and yet still wants more damage. Magsorcs are never satisfied lol

If you think Magsorc has the highest burst ingame you never played a magblade or a stamblade.
Or you play it and you belong to the category of whineblades that constantly whine for buffs.

JitchDaddy · September 2018

As someone who is highly against the sorc cheese, I do think hardened ward lasting 10 seconds would ease up magicka a bit and make reapplying more manageable.

themaddaedra · September 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

Shadowy disguise guarantees a crit. Passives increase your crit damage. Nobody really plays Altmer on NB, it's more like Dunmer which also buffs NB light attacks. My pvp main is nb btw. It's just beyond reality to say that sorc has more burst than nb. I wouldn't laugh even if it was a joke.

Nicko_Lps · September 2018

Daus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

More damage.

Better sustain.

Highest burst in the game, and yet still wants more damage. Magsorcs are never satisfied lol

If you think Magsorc has the highest burst ingame you never played a magblade or a stamblade.
Or you play it and you belong to the category of whineblades that constantly whine for buffs.

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

There we go again, Decimus and his magic numbers out of nowhere.
Pre summerset your calculations on sorc burst was like 110k, how come and it dropped now?
I will never forget your calculations of cage doing 9k damage on players. Some serious math there bro. GG

PS
Please duel me one day with engine guardian/necro/destro mastery. Please? I beg you.

templesus · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.

Please tell me how the class is balanced

Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...

The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.

Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.

Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.

Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.

In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc

Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.

The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.

Mephisto939 · September 2018

The only way I would support any kind of a sorc buff is if it included a shield nerf. And yes 3 of my chars are sorcs, (but I don't pvp my magsorcs). Sorcs have the best AoE damage in the game. Do you honestly think they should also have the best single target (and god-mode shields)?

Valrien · September 2018

To everyone who thinks Sorc burst is OP, here is the normal combo:
Fury > Curse > Reach > Frags

Here's what most people will do after they see Fury and/or Curse:

Nightblades will Cloak and eat the projectiles

Templars will purge your Fury and Curse

DKs will reflect your projectiles

Warden will eat your projectiles and gain ult doing it

Sorcs will shield and hope for the best because they don't have many counters to their own burst

In addition to this, Stamina builds will just dodge or block.

These counters don't require much in the slightest. It's not even very skillful play. These are all 1-button counters to a 4+ button combo (more if you use Ult)

In addition to this, actually landing the burst doesn't do much damage unless it's the squishiest build ever seen. So no, Sorc definitely does not have the best in the game. Not by a long shot

Valrien · September 2018

Mephisto939 wrote: »

The only way I would support any kind of a sorc buff is if it included a shield nerf. And yes 3 of my chars are sorcs, (but I don't pvp my magsorcs). Sorcs have the best AoE damage in the game. Do you honestly think they should also have the best single target (and god-mode shields)?

When AoE damage doesn't especially matter, yes. Also they don't have the best.

And it's very simple. Shields do not go up. Damage does. This is the very definition of power creep.

The only way to fix this is to regularly buff shields, or change the scaling to scale half on magicka, half on spell damage instead of 100% magicka or something of that nature

Valrien · September 2018

templesus wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.

Please tell me how the class is balanced

Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...

The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.

Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.

Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.

Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.

In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc

Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.

The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.

Mag Sorcs are taken into Trials as healers, because they still want the Minor Prophecy and Conduit synergy (yes, that is the extent of our utility) but they don't want to waste a DPS slot on a Sorc when they could be bringing something else like a Magblade

DDuke · September 2018

themaddaedra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

Shadowy disguise guarantees a crit. Passives increase your crit damage. Nobody really plays Altmer on NB, it's more like Dunmer which also buffs NB light attacks. My pvp main is nb btw. It's just beyond reality to say that sorc has more burst than nb. I wouldn't laugh even if it was a joke.

+3% Flame Damage
-4% Max Magicka

You can calculate with those modifiers, but it's not changing the outcome much (if at all). That sorc has more burst than NB is a mathematical fact. Is it easier to land than NB burst? Perhaps not, but atleast you (almost) always land the Curse portion of burst, where as entire NB burst can be dodged (and even if you do get hit by Incap, you can CC Break+dodge roll before Assassin's Will hits you).

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

More damage.

Better sustain.

Highest burst in the game, and yet still wants more damage. Magsorcs are never satisfied lol

If you think Magsorc has the highest burst ingame you never played a magblade or a stamblade.
Or you play it and you belong to the category of whineblades that constantly whine for buffs.

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

There we go again, Decimus and his magic numbers out of nowhere.
Pre summerset your calculations on sorc burst was like 110k, how come and it dropped now?
I will never forget your calculations of cage doing 9k damage on players. Some serious math there bro. GG

PS
Please duel me one day with engine guardian/necro/destro mastery. Please? I beg you.

I've explained how I got the numbers, gear & buffs used. Same setups on both classes. Feel free to test it out yourself

Also, those numbers are for noCP (which is why you see a difference compared to what I theorycrafted pre-Summerset).

Not my fault people play trashy sustain setups and then QQ about not having damage.

Nicko_Lps · September 2018

Mephisto939 wrote: »

The only way I would support any kind of a sorc buff is if it included a shield nerf. And yes 3 of my chars are sorcs, (but I don't pvp my magsorcs). Sorcs have the best AoE damage in the game. Do you honestly think they should also have the best single target (and god-mode shields)?

Sorcs best AoE in game? Are you seriously playing ESO as sorc?

Magsorc shield nerf? Both shields can be dpsd down in pvp in less than 3 sec from a good player. Go on nerf them lol

Aedaryl · September 2018

Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.

Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.

DDuke wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )

Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.

It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.

Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?

Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.

If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.

I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.

This isn't true at all.

EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.

Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.

Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.

If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob

BrightOblivion · September 2018

I definitely agree that the sustain feels brutal on a magsorc. And I'm not sure if people realize it but, at least in trials, Dark Deal and Overload are actually worse than heavy attacks. Dark Deal requires a slot in an already ridiculously bloated bar setup, is a channeled ability, and deals no damage. And Overload demands an ulti slot (which are taken up by Greater Storm Atro for single target or Ele Rage for AoE) while completely losing access to at least one regular bar. It makes about as much sense to me as seeing someone bleeding out and handing them a Mickey Mouse Band-Aid to "reward skillful medical practice." Which is to say, none.

As to pets, things like them spreading chain lightning at the Mage (and the atro actually spawning it), them getting the Storm the Heavens AoE at Olms, and the storm atro turning into an entity you can't dps through as he dies (screwing over everyone on the far side of the boss from him) aren't balance decisions, and the only gameplay they encourage is not playing a petsorc. As someone who absolutely enjoys playing petsorc (it's one of few parts of the sorc kit that still has an identity to it) and will fight tooth and toenail any suggestion to remove them from the game, I find that incredibly unpleasant and a bad design decision that needs fixing.

One thing I'd like that may put some people up in arms is a removal of the stun from the Volatile Familiar. Compared to the headaches it causes during tank pulls and especially during the Yokeda Kai fight as our tank tries to wrangle the copies and the original, the utility of the stun just isn't worth it. Additionally, because it's an 8 second ability with the stun at the end and it's near impossible to predict what's going to happen 8 seconds from now in some fights, it renders the familiar pulse (and that portion of my typical dps) unusable for the duration. Again, the only sort of gameplay it incentivizes is "Don't play petsorc if you don't want to tick people off."

Sheezabeast · September 2018

Why can’t we do something that helps all classes and buff light armor to deal with sustain problems and squishieness. Perhaps give heavy armor Wrath back but balance it by reducing the increased healing or max health for 5 heavy wearers or revamp medium armor so it’s more viable for pvp survivability without creating a Rollie pollie epidemic. Things can be done without creating class imbalance.

DDuke · September 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.

Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.

DDuke wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )

Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.

It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.

Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?

Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.

If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.

I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.

This isn't true at all.

EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.

Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.

Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.

If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob

Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).

Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.

Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.

Nicko_Lps · September 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.

Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.

DDuke wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )

Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.

It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.

Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?

Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.

If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.

I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.

This isn't true at all.

EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.

Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.

Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.

If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob

Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).

Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.

Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.

When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs

templesus · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.

Please tell me how the class is balanced

Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...

The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.

Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.

Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.

Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.

In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc

Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.

The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.

Mag Sorcs are taken into Trials as healers, because they still want the Minor Prophecy and Conduit synergy (yes, that is the extent of our utility) but they don't want to waste a DPS slot on a Sorc when they could be bringing something else like a Magblade

Perfect; that means you understand. Now if you’ll just re-read my first comment then your previous response is now answered and my claim remains firm.

templesus wrote: »

Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.

Mephisto939 · September 2018

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

The only way I would support any kind of a sorc buff is if it included a shield nerf. And yes 3 of my chars are sorcs, (but I don't pvp my magsorcs). Sorcs have the best AoE damage in the game. Do you honestly think they should also have the best single target (and god-mode shields)?

Sorcs best AoE in game? Are you seriously playing ESO as sorc?

Magsorc shield nerf? Both shields can be dpsd down in pvp in less than 3 sec from a good player. Go on nerf them lol

Who has better AoEs than sorc?

DDuke · September 2018

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.

Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.

DDuke wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )

Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.

It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.

Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?

Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.

If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.

I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.

This isn't true at all.

EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.

Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.

Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.

If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob

Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).

Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.

Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.

When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs

Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.

Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.

I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.

MashmalloMan · September 2018

Stam Sorc PvE:

Strengths: Single Target dps is tied to aoe abilities to make the strongest aoe class in the game, people seem to forget that when they look at a dps parse for stam sorcs. I understand AoE dmg isn't important for boss fights which is the point in maximizing DPS, but it's worth mentioning. A large chunk of the game is AoE fights.

8% max stam/+4% front bar weapon dmg from class abilities/5% physical dmg affects endless hail/caltrops/hurricane/monster sets/flawless dawnbreaker/steel tornado(rarely use)/shrouded daggers(main spammable to compliment aoe/cleave spec for me)

Implosion compliments our AoE dmg, with every physical dmg tick having a chance to proc passive execute dmg on all targets melting trash pulls.

Rotation is pretty easy, just need to cast hurricane when it expires for optimal dmg, 12 second endless hail rotation vs 15 second hurricane duration.

Crit surge has about 3-5k self heals a second, throw down aoe dots and you will become unkillable while rezing someone.

Weaknesses:

Sustain: We have passive sustain help through 20% stam regen and 5% cost reduction. Other classes have much better options. NB which has the best sustain, has 15% stam regen + 10% from minor endurance and leeching strikes providing a free 3000 stamina for using the skill and 100 per light atk which can add up to 1500-2000 based on a solid rotation for the 1 cast.

Dark deal has no room, nor any place in a pve rotation, it's a big crutch for pvp and that's it. I'll explain my idea below.

Changes:

Flexibilty. diversity and class identity is my main concern. We have so many weapon abilities on our bar and the bound armaments is double slotted. It makes the rotation feel very stagnant. There should be an option that raises the opportunity for more dmg, but behind a skill barrier like NB's have with merciless resolve and leeching strikes. I understand bound armor isn't a toggle, but not slotting it provides 0 benefit because there is not a single skill worth slotting for solid dps, losing 8% stam and 11% light atk dmg, not to mention 20% stam regen if you don't have the atro slotted is too much of a loss..

Keep dark deal the same as it is balanced really well. Make our rotations more rewarding by making bound armaments a buff instead of a skill that is double slotted for dmg. People asking for this to be passive without the skill are asking for too much and further dumbing down the class. Take away the 20% block mitigation for 3 seconds and replace it with a stam return skill on a 15 second timer to line up with hurricane or 30 second timer to line up with crit surge.

This change to bound armor would fix mag/stam/tanking. DD's wouldn't need to double bar it to get full benefits because the buff would carry over bars, adding a stam/mag return of even 1000 every 5 seconds for a cost of 1k lasting 15 seconds would return a small 2000-2500, but it would help immensely and give us something more dynamic to work with. It would free up that back bar slot giving us more build diversity. Obviously this needs to be tuned, but I think this is what people are looking for. It's what I'm looking for.

The 20% block mitigation for 3 seconds is expensive and useless to tanks. Too short and it's attached to a dps skill. You make it provide a sustain buff and it will work for every role, not just DD or just tanks. Even healers would find use out of it.

I feel really strongly about that 1 change but other changes ->

Some tuned class abilities. Stam sorc's don't get any use from the 10% healing from dark magic, it's an awesome passive and giving some type of skill in the tree for stam users would be nice to utilize this passive.

Atro Ult - strongly agree that there is room to change the charged version to a stamina morph for wind. This would further cement our class identity for physical/wind dmg. It would help scale dmg a lot better for cp and penetration and is a very SMALL change that wouldn't nerf magicka specs. It would also give us another AoE ULT which fits our class style.

Nicko_Lps · September 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.

Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.

DDuke wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )

Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.

It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.

Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?

Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.

If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.

I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.

This isn't true at all.

EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.

Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.

Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.

If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob

Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).

Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.

Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.

When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs

Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.

Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.

I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.

Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)

Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.

Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.

That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.

Apherius · September 2018

templesus wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.

Please tell me how the class is balanced

Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...

The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.

Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.

Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.

Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.

In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc

Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.

The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.

for me balance in PVE for DD is all about sustain, damage and utility and skills that reward skilful gameplay.

Mag sorc are still taken in trial because they provide liquid lightning synergy for alskosh uptime and minor prophecy ( = utility ), they pull correct damage but have the worst sustain.

NB provide minor savagery, heal allies and make healer useless in dungeons, sometimes you will raid in chat " lfm 1 heal or magblade " + provide major slayer to them and 2 allies thank to cheap incap and Master A. ( = utility ), pull the best damage and have the best sustain in PVE.

I agree with you when you say each class should bring utility in PVE, those without utility ( or those who bring less utility ), should deal more damage. But it's not just about utility and damage, it's also about sustain, and along with these 3 points come the most important ... All class should get skill(s) that reward skilful gameplay ( Merciless and siphonning attacks reward perfect weaving with increased damage and sustain ).

but I disagree with the rest of your comment, " NB with virtually no utility ?! " " NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility " ? Do you ever played magNB ?

let me also remind you that atro give major berserk during 8 sec to 1 ally ( and it cost 170 ultimate ! ). And most of the time a magNB will benefit from the synergy and make it even stronger lel.

Strider__Roshin · September 2018

Magsorcs have the highest burst in the game. Period.

This has been mathematically proven many times, and thankfully @DDuke has taken the time to produce numbers that can be readily copy and pasted whenever a magsorc ignorantly exclaims otherwise.

Math proves this, and magsorcs still like to argue against it; citing their feelings as evidence.

Sorry magsorcs, facts don't care about your feelings. If you feel your class lacks bursts, I'm sorry to say that it doesn't get any better than what you have.

ZOS_JesC · September 2018

Greetings, we've removed a series of nonconstructive comments. Keep posts on topic and constructive. This is a reminder that comments posted with the intention of baiting other forum members will result in your forum account being actioned. Thank you for your understanding.