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What Do You Guys Feel Needs To Be Buffed With Sorc?
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭2. streak break roots...ability wich make a distance betveen u and opponent and cc him...to break roots and as i understand snares...kidding? snare-root removal should be absolutly not this skill. U should sacrifice something to get it. another classes have no such busrt, timing, execute and cc abilities as sorcs. Every skill should be a part of the game, but not above the game.
The cc is mediocre. I would be fine if it is dropped for the tradeoff to be able to break roots and stuns. Something like this is common in WoW since day 1 and they really did an awesome job with that. Never played that game?
Ive played wow many years, i really dont feel WoW's mages that streak out of all stuns + stun spam everyone + ultimate mobility is healthy for ESO.
I would rather slow my opponents as WoW's mages have them perma-slow + root on cooldown rather than streak out of stuns
We already have 2H people spamming forward momentum to avoid each and every cc. And in its current state streak costs an insane amount of resources if you would spam it.
FM doesn't grant you total cc immunity.1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »2. streak break roots...ability wich make a distance betveen u and opponent and cc him...to break roots and as i understand snares...kidding? snare-root removal should be absolutly not this skill. U should sacrifice something to get it. another classes have no such busrt, timing, execute and cc abilities as sorcs. Every skill should be a part of the game, but not above the game.
The cc is mediocre. I would be fine if it is dropped for the tradeoff to be able to break roots and stuns. Something like this is common in WoW since day 1 and they really did an awesome job with that. Never played that game?
Nah, streak's stun must not go. It doesn't open up much of an offensive window, that is correct, but it's a great disruption against groups and somehow the only stun on many stamsorc's builds that don't run SnB.
I think streak and BoL aren't in such a great spot that a buff also means that a nerf is needed. Currently it can be outran, it's suspectable to gap closers, it kills momentum, it's useless on uneven terrain, too short stun and has giant stacking costs.
At least fix the whiplash and terrain issues and it still has downsides. Maybe increase stun by 0.5-1s? Then we can talk about buff-nerf balance and stacking costs. Also mind that Streak is ment for offense. BoL is the defensive morph.
If all goes to waste, maybe add snare immunity to bound armor, so we at least sometimes click that skill? I meam it's mandatory to slot anyway, so why not make it's active part somehow useful? Speaking from a non-tank perspective.
Streak stun is a handful offering to the enemy, a free CC immunity.
BoL during lag, when zerglings chase me many times it fails to absorb the projectiles, ive seen that happening on me+ppl ragewhisping me that their BoL did not absorb my projectiles.
BoL need to be fixed and probably both streak+BoL would yeld a small slow/root immunity. As about cost and range we all talked about it, even mighty nightblade supremacist agreed that cost+range nerfs are pathetic.0 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »2. streak break roots...ability wich make a distance betveen u and opponent and cc him...to break roots and as i understand snares...kidding? snare-root removal should be absolutly not this skill. U should sacrifice something to get it. another classes have no such busrt, timing, execute and cc abilities as sorcs. Every skill should be a part of the game, but not above the game.
The cc is mediocre. I would be fine if it is dropped for the tradeoff to be able to break roots and stuns. Something like this is common in WoW since day 1 and they really did an awesome job with that. Never played that game?
Nah, streak's stun must not go. It doesn't open up much of an offensive window, that is correct, but it's a great disruption against groups and somehow the only stun on many stamsorc's builds that don't run SnB.
I think streak and BoL aren't in such a great spot that a buff also means that a nerf is needed. Currently it can be outran, it's suspectable to gap closers, it kills momentum, it's useless on uneven terrain, too short stun and has giant stacking costs.
At least fix the whiplash and terrain issues and it still has downsides. Maybe increase stun by 0.5-1s? Then we can talk about buff-nerf balance and stacking costs. Also mind that Streak is ment for offense. BoL is the defensive morph.
If all goes to waste, maybe add snare immunity to bound armor, so we at least sometimes click that skill? I meam it's mandatory to slot anyway, so why not make it's active part somehow useful? Speaking from a non-tank perspective.
Bound armor would be a very good suggestion which could work as well.0 -
iiYuki✭✭✭✭✭Blood Magic passive to return magicka instead of health.
Expert Summoner passive should increase magicka when you don't have a pet active.
Rebate should trigger when curse explodes.
Daedric Protection should give magicka and stamina recover not health and stamina.
"Play how you want... unless its not how we intended you to play in which case we'll nerf it".
- ZO$
- The ZO$ Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmUJWP_ebsQ0 -
EPelite✭✭✭what i would like to see is mobility buff to the mag sorc.
i play mag and stam sorc and with the swift meta on all stam builds I feel the pain on my mag sorc do to the streak cost.
if streak didn´t have improved cost on but went back to basic cost then mag would be on par with all the stam builds when it comes to mobility.
right now any stam build can run down a mag sorc with a minimum cost of stamina but the sorc will streak 3-5 times and have spend 50k mag doing so.
I have never played a petsorc in pvp but like the idea of one. maybe make pets a 1 bar thing so we dont have to duble bar it.
i know there would need to be a limit to it so you cant just smack it on your overloadbar and then forget about it but i still think 1 bar pets would be a fun buff to petsorc pvp and would open up a new world of builds.
kind regards
Malleus
Edited by EPelite on September 10, 2018 10:50AM1 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭I play my dk tank more now in PvE and PvP, but I'd still like to see mag sorcs moderately buffed, nothing too ridiculously powerful, but a little buffed. I'd like to see the dark magic skill line positively revamped. So sorcs have more skill choices imho.Edited by Arrodisia on September 10, 2018 10:51AM0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Blood Magic passive to return magicka instead of health.
Expert Summoner passive should increase magicka when you don't have a pet active.
Rebate should trigger when curse explodes.
Daedric Protection should give magicka and stamina recover not health and stamina.
I think the current passives are too "narrow". Half of them proves useful only to mag and even parts of them force pet use. I can't think of a single NB passive that so niche.0 -
Here's a recap on the sorc changes that I personally think need to happen:
Buffs:
Buff PvE damage and sustain
Make pet sorcs not to feel like a burden in a Trial
Nerf:
Nert execute 4 seconds delay and buff its damage or execute percentage to 25%
Nerf rune cage and compensate it with some allocated power or utility so that it does not become useless.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »Nerf rune cage and compensate it with some allocated power or utility so that it does not become useless.
What's left of RC to nerf further?0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »Nerf rune cage and compensate it with some allocated power or utility so that it does not become useless.
What's left of RC to nerf further?
Guessing he's not downloaded the patch yetXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach1 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭Darkenarlol wrote: »damn how i like it =D
so a bunch of loud but incompetent ( oh sorry daus is great at giving incaps into EG sphere - so pro so skilled lol lol)
forumblades keep trying to dictate how sorcs should be balanced, what they need and what they don't need... just lol
actually the question is - can forumblades gank sorc's balance thru forums and sabotaging class rep discords?
we'll see
They can. They class representative even had the face to come to the official sorcs feedback thread and tell us that they (the NB representative) are managing our balance.
And in fact, we see patch after patch, they seem written by NBs for NBs. Nobody else even comes close.
Nobody except sorcs still have the numbers to try and fight back this factual dictatorship (ZOS bending down to who pays the most as usual). However the other, repressed classes, instead of teaming up with sorcs to try and displace NBs from dictatorship, they fight against them and achieve.... a fat zero.
dont you guys know?
nightblades are associated with illuminati.0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭some skills may need adjustment but so does every class : D
but the changes you propose are insane
What exactly makes them insane?
I don't think I've seen anyone actually describe what makes any of them insaneValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭"Opinions change, they're not set in stone" = @DDuke admitting he was totally wrong.
About what? That damage was the problem with Rune Cage? Yeah, as I outlined it was a shortsighted notion that didn't take into account potential future changes. Not exactly wrong at the time though when you calculated sorc maximum burst & the minimum viable build health in noCP/CP environment, but whatever.
Some of us atleast can admit we're wrong... others keep spouting nonsense even after having been proven wrong with facts (i.e. math).Again @DDuke i have to ask, why are you even here?
It's like the OP NightBlade bat signal has gone off again. Surely you aren't still struggling enough to counter Sorcs this patch to need to bother with all this? Surely you have learnt to counter them by now?
At least in U20 wards are getting nerfed too that will help you.
Yes, and I'd like it to remain that way. If I see a post saying sorc needs buffs in... well, literally everything, I'm going to respond because I don't agree with it, and anyone who cares about pesky things such as numbers wouldn't agree with it.
There are areas where sorcs could use help (e.g. something to deal with snares/roots, better sustained dps as they're lacking in PvE etc etc), but burst damage or shields or implosion passive aren't it, and that's pretty obvious to anyone who understands how this game and numbers work.usmguy1234 wrote: »Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:
Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.
Thats what he does, useless builds with big max magica+spell damage potential and then he comes on forums and whines about how OP sorc burst is with a non-usuable build, ofcourse he claims he is the FORUM GOD while the forum peasants cant make it work, he has the KNOWLEDGE to make it work...
Magsorc...Meditate in 1v1... UG UG
"Useless builds"
Here, have some of those useless builds.
Still waiting for you to become anyone relevant.Edited by DDuke on September 10, 2018 12:11PM2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.
Please tell me how the class is balanced
Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...
The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.
Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.
Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.
Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.
In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc
Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.
The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.
Why is it fair that 7 (seven) NBs are invited for DPS, DKs and templars can be BiS at tanking or healing, whereas magsorcs can only DPS and do it bad? It's not like magsorcs cannot be replaced for buffing too.
We are going back to 2015, when trials had a grand total of zero (0) sorcs. For now, trial guilds constantly ask me to log in my magblade, in a short while the "ask" shall become: "demand".
Actually, it's 8 NBs and a Sorc healer. We're not even allowed to DPS in the top groupsValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
JitchDaddy✭✭✭Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.
Please tell me how the class is balanced
Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...
The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.
Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.
Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.
Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.
In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc
Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.
The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.
Why is it fair that 7 (seven) NBs are invited for DPS, DKs and templars can be BiS at tanking or healing, whereas magsorcs can only DPS and do it bad? It's not like magsorcs cannot be replaced for buffing too.
We are going back to 2015, when trials had a grand total of zero (0) sorcs. For now, trial guilds constantly ask me to log in my magblade, in a short while the "ask" shall become: "demand".
Actually, it's 8 NBs and a Sorc healer. We're not even allowed to DPS in the top groups
Sounds like you guys need to find better friends and ditch those super serious trials groups.1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"Opinions change, they're not set in stone" = @DDuke admitting he was totally wrong.
About what? That damage was the problem with Rune Cage? Yeah, as I outlined it was a shortsighted notion that didn't take into account potential future changes. Not exactly wrong at the time though when you calculated sorc maximum burst & the minimum viable build health in noCP/CP environment, but whatever.
Some of us atleast can admit we're wrong... others keep spouting nonsense even after having been proven wrong with facts (i.e. math).Again @DDuke i have to ask, why are you even here?
It's like the OP NightBlade bat signal has gone off again. Surely you aren't still struggling enough to counter Sorcs this patch to need to bother with all this? Surely you have learnt to counter them by now?
At least in U20 wards are getting nerfed too that will help you.
Yes, and I'd like it to remain that way. If I see a post saying sorc needs buffs in... well, literally everything, I'm going to respond because I don't agree with it, and anyone who cares about pesky things such as numbers wouldn't agree with it.
There are areas where sorcs could use help (e.g. something to deal with snares/roots, better sustained dps as they're lacking in PvE etc etc), but burst damage or shields or implosion passive aren't it, and that's pretty obvious to anyone who understands how this game and numbers work.usmguy1234 wrote: »Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.
Thats what he does, useless builds with big max magica+spell damage potential and then he comes on forums and whines about how OP sorc burst is with a non-usuable build, ofcourse he claims he is the FORUM GOD while the forum peasants cant make it work, he has the KNOWLEDGE to make it work...
Magsorc...Meditate in 1v1... UG UG
"Useless builds"
Here, have some of those useless builds.
Still waiting for you to become anyone relevant, scrub.
So in short, DDuke has officially admitted he's here to troll because he:
A. Doesn't want Sorc to be a fair fight
B. Doesn't care about anyone who isn't Kodi or some ***.
Please leave my thread so actual discussion can happen or I will report you for baiting and trollingValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake3 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JitchDaddy wrote: »Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.
Please tell me how the class is balanced
Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...
The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.
Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.
Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.
Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.
In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc
Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.
The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.
Why is it fair that 7 (seven) NBs are invited for DPS, DKs and templars can be BiS at tanking or healing, whereas magsorcs can only DPS and do it bad? It's not like magsorcs cannot be replaced for buffing too.
We are going back to 2015, when trials had a grand total of zero (0) sorcs. For now, trial guilds constantly ask me to log in my magblade, in a short while the "ask" shall become: "demand".
Actually, it's 8 NBs and a Sorc healer. We're not even allowed to DPS in the top groups
Sounds like you guys need to find better friends and ditch those super serious trials groups.
It's not about the groups themselves. It's about the fact that Sorc is actually so bad in PvE that they are only allowed within the meta because of one synergy, and not even as a DPS.
Why wouldn't someone want to fix that?Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake2 -
JitchDaddy✭✭✭JitchDaddy wrote: »Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.
Please tell me how the class is balanced
Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...
The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.
Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.
Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.
Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.
In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc
Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.
The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.
Why is it fair that 7 (seven) NBs are invited for DPS, DKs and templars can be BiS at tanking or healing, whereas magsorcs can only DPS and do it bad? It's not like magsorcs cannot be replaced for buffing too.
We are going back to 2015, when trials had a grand total of zero (0) sorcs. For now, trial guilds constantly ask me to log in my magblade, in a short while the "ask" shall become: "demand".
Actually, it's 8 NBs and a Sorc healer. We're not even allowed to DPS in the top groups
Sounds like you guys need to find better friends and ditch those super serious trials groups.
It's not about the groups themselves. It's about the fact that Sorc is actually so bad in PvE that they are only allowed within the meta because of one synergy, and not even as a DPS.
Why wouldn't someone want to fix that?
The problem here is that classes will always migrate in and out of BiS. Fixing that is simply a matter of waiting a couple patches. The constant changes to classes always mess things up. Unfortunately, it always seems to be changes made specifically for PvP crybabies that screws up PvE.1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Darkenarlol wrote: »damn how i like it =D
so a bunch of loud but incompetent ( oh sorry daus is great at giving incaps into EG sphere - so pro so skilled lol lol)
forumblades keep trying to dictate how sorcs should be balanced, what they need and what they don't need... just lol
actually the question is - can forumblades gank sorc's balance thru forums and sabotaging class rep discords?
we'll see
They can. They class representative even had the face to come to the official sorcs feedback thread and tell us that they (the NB representative) are managing our balance.
And in fact, we see patch after patch, they seem written by NBs for NBs. Nobody else even comes close.
Nobody except sorcs still have the numbers to try and fight back this factual dictatorship (ZOS bending down to who pays the most as usual). However the other, repressed classes, instead of teaming up with sorcs to try and displace NBs from dictatorship, they fight against them and achieve.... a fat zero.
dont you guys know?
nightblades are associated with illuminati.
No, their top streamers are associated with money, and ZOS loves money.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JitchDaddy wrote: »Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.
Please tell me how the class is balanced
Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...
The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.
Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.
Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.
Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.
In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc
Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.
The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.
Why is it fair that 7 (seven) NBs are invited for DPS, DKs and templars can be BiS at tanking or healing, whereas magsorcs can only DPS and do it bad? It's not like magsorcs cannot be replaced for buffing too.
We are going back to 2015, when trials had a grand total of zero (0) sorcs. For now, trial guilds constantly ask me to log in my magblade, in a short while the "ask" shall become: "demand".
Actually, it's 8 NBs and a Sorc healer. We're not even allowed to DPS in the top groups
Sounds like you guys need to find better friends and ditch those super serious trials groups.
Sure, and be relegated with noobs still stuck at Rakhat.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭JitchDaddy wrote: »JitchDaddy wrote: »Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.
Please tell me how the class is balanced
Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...
The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.
Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.
Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.
Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.
In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc
Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.
The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.
Why is it fair that 7 (seven) NBs are invited for DPS, DKs and templars can be BiS at tanking or healing, whereas magsorcs can only DPS and do it bad? It's not like magsorcs cannot be replaced for buffing too.
We are going back to 2015, when trials had a grand total of zero (0) sorcs. For now, trial guilds constantly ask me to log in my magblade, in a short while the "ask" shall become: "demand".
Actually, it's 8 NBs and a Sorc healer. We're not even allowed to DPS in the top groups
Sounds like you guys need to find better friends and ditch those super serious trials groups.
It's not about the groups themselves. It's about the fact that Sorc is actually so bad in PvE that they are only allowed within the meta because of one synergy, and not even as a DPS.
Why wouldn't someone want to fix that?
The problem here is that classes will always migrate in and out of BiS. Fixing that is simply a matter of waiting a couple patches. The constant changes to classes always mess things up. Unfortunately, it always seems to be changes made specifically for PvP crybabies that screws up PvE.
Aha. A couple of patches. Like how many? 2? 3? 4? That alone would mean waiting 6-12 months. Great solution, Sir. Just sit out and wait. This will be added to my all-time-hit list of "interesting" quotes that I'll post as soon as someone mentions "their" class is underperforming or "other" classes are OP. Thank you for entertaining me.1 -
iiYuki✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Blood Magic passive to return magicka instead ofChilly-McFreeze wrote: »Blood Magic passive to return magicka instead of health.
Expert Summoner passive should increase magicka when you don't have a pet active.
Rebate should trigger when curse explodes.
Daedric Protection should give magicka and stamina recover not health and stamina.
I think the current passives are too "narrow". Half of them proves useful only to mag and even parts of them force pet use. I can't think of a single NB passive that so niche.
I have only played magicka sorcerer so thats where my points come from, i cant see why it couldnt choose the highest attribute and use that or just use both.Edited by iiYuki on September 10, 2018 12:48PM"Play how you want... unless its not how we intended you to play in which case we'll nerf it".
- ZO$
- The ZO$ Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmUJWP_ebsQ0 -
Mirrrr✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Just play some BGs as a non-sorc... And then we can talk....
I do and I get ripped apart by Dks wardens and stamblades. It's always poison injection.0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭"Opinions change, they're not set in stone" = @DDuke admitting he was totally wrong.
About what? That damage was the problem with Rune Cage? Yeah, as I outlined it was a shortsighted notion that didn't take into account potential future changes. Not exactly wrong at the time though when you calculated sorc maximum burst & the minimum viable build health in noCP/CP environment, but whatever.
Some of us atleast can admit we're wrong... others keep spouting nonsense even after having been proven wrong with facts (i.e. math).Again @DDuke i have to ask, why are you even here?
It's like the OP NightBlade bat signal has gone off again. Surely you aren't still struggling enough to counter Sorcs this patch to need to bother with all this? Surely you have learnt to counter them by now?
At least in U20 wards are getting nerfed too that will help you.
Yes, and I'd like it to remain that way. If I see a post saying sorc needs buffs in... well, literally everything, I'm going to respond because I don't agree with it, and anyone who cares about pesky things such as numbers wouldn't agree with it.
There are areas where sorcs could use help (e.g. something to deal with snares/roots, better sustained dps as they're lacking in PvE etc etc), but burst damage or shields or implosion passive aren't it, and that's pretty obvious to anyone who understands how this game and numbers work.usmguy1234 wrote: »Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.
Thats what he does, useless builds with big max magica+spell damage potential and then he comes on forums and whines about how OP sorc burst is with a non-usuable build, ofcourse he claims he is the FORUM GOD while the forum peasants cant make it work, he has the KNOWLEDGE to make it work...
Magsorc...Meditate in 1v1... UG UG
"Useless builds"
Here, have some of those useless builds.
Still waiting for you to become anyone relevant.
When you see a buff nightblade do you jump in and tell them what the real balance is?
There is a buff medium armor post, did not see you protest over there mr forum-SJW. Let me guess, you did not because medium armor NEEDS a buff right?
Im having some fun atm in forums because my GPU is burned out and as i live in the middle of nowhere i have to wait a week for it to travel to me, so now that i know based on facts that you ALWAYS are protesting VS buff sorc threats on forum... Im thinking to make myself a more regular forum user because you are very entertaining.
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scipionumatia✭✭✭✭quick question only cause I haven't played my sorc since pre morrowind.
So the old frags had a 28m range, instacast on proc and stunned allowing sorc to follow up with burst. This skill was dodgeable and reflectable, many times I made a sorc eat his own frag.
rune cage also has a 28m range, insta cast- no proc required. is not reflectable, but is now dodgeable. It hardly does any damage but then again neither do other hard CC. Templar javelin doesn't do significant damage and is reflectable and dogeable, DK fossilize or talons don't do much damage and have terribad range (yes I know dk is a melee class and "we don't need a long range CC" although I significantly disagree, and yes I have heard of stone fist.
Pretty much I don't understand the issue regarding the CC. Rune cage seems perfectly viable in the present state of the game, unless your used to having the 2-for-1 skill that frags was. Which is certainly possible. TBH I wouldn't mind seeing sorc get the old frags back, I miss reflecting them
Scipio Numantia Red guard Nightblade PvP- AD
Scipio Asiaticus Khajiit Nightblade (CRAFTER/DPS) PvE- EP
Altmer Nightblade PvP- EP
Fueoculto Breton Templar (DPS) PvE- EP
Rasoculto Orc Dragon Knight PvP- EP
Caethus Argonian Templar (HEAL) PvE- EP
Vale Oso Nord Sorc (DPS) PvE- AD
Sir-Galahad-the-pure Altmer Sorc (DPS) PvE- EP
Scipionumantine Imperial Templar PvP- EP
Un-bearable Imperial Warden PVP- EP
Vale Bear Altmer Warden PvP- EP
Baits-All-Zergs Argonian Dragon knight PVP- DC0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Still waiting for you to become anyone relevant.
annnnnnd there it is that magnificent ego. Are you someone thats relevant? We all paid the same for the game why is anyone more relevant than anyone else here, just hilarous.
At least I have the decency to stay out of the NightBlade Discord because I dont main one, and my biased views wouldnt be relevant. But then I guess maybe I learn to counter better than you, clearly you are stuck when fighting Sorc's and need them nerfed.
Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
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Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
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Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach2 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭scipionumatia wrote: »quick question only cause I haven't played my sorc since pre morrowind.
So the old frags had a 28m range, instacast on proc and stunned allowing sorc to follow up with burst. This skill was dodgeable and reflectable, many times I made a sorc eat his own frag.
rune cage also has a 28m range, insta cast- no proc required. is not reflectable, but is now dodgeable. It hardly does any damage but then again neither do other hard CC. Templar javelin doesn't do significant damage and is reflectable and dogeable, DK fossilize or talons don't do much damage and have terribad range (yes I know dk is a melee class and "we don't need a long range CC" although I significantly disagree, and yes I have heard of stone fist.
Pretty much I don't understand the issue regarding the CC. Rune cage seems perfectly viable in the present state of the game, unless your used to having the 2-for-1 skill that frags was. Which is certainly possible. TBH I wouldn't mind seeing sorc get the old frags back, I miss reflecting them
Forum whineblades like @DDuke and many others whined alot for it to become a dodge-able stun.
In fact, the whole "nerf" is only made to please the rollerblades the suffle and mirage users which in vast majority are forum whineblades, the leader of this nightblade forum supremacy squad must be @DDuke
Even in my faction's zonechat, each time i saw someone whine about cage MIATS reported him as nightblade. No joke here.
If you get caught off guard by a nightblade, its ok when you get 1shotted. Now if you catch a nb off guard, HOW DARE YOU to 1shot him.
Hope i got you covered since you have to play from pre morrowind. Welcome back and have fun!0 -
cmaag42Soul ShrivenSustain is an issue with most classes/ rotations that dont use a HA. But its also what seoarates the average from great players (sorry but its true).
I would like to see pets not being able to be targeted by mechanics though. It would allow for pet sorcs to be viable in say vMoL.0
This discussion has been closed.