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What Do You Guys Feel Needs To Be Buffed With Sorc?
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have no idea. I like my sorcs - one heavy, one light (don't like med/stam, too hard to play on satband with 2 second lag). They're a pet class, pets are run server-side so lag doesn't mess with them. So I have sorcs and wardens - two of each. I have other classes too - but they're really hard to play because lag like mine is - sometimes literally - the killer....
And of course, I don't do pvp.0 -
Anethum✭✭✭✭I agree that snares are sorc's kryponite and I am of the camp who is currently advocating for a snare cleanse on streak/boundless storm.
I think it's mistake to give such addition to already useful skills.
Streak is a great cc and distance making to avoid *** tonns of damage. Powerfull skill, i really like it and absolutly sure it should not be buffed, srry.
Boundless storm provides expedition and aoe damage aura...it can be too strong with simple snare removal and expedition buff at the same time. Class which is mobile itself with both that things ifrom one skill can become a nightmare for gameplay.
U should choose between usefull options at every class to not be best at everything.
To have and save the balance of classesEdited by Anethum on September 10, 2018 1:57AM@Anethum from .ua0 -
Finviuswe✭✭✭✭I agree that snares are sorc's kryponite and I am of the camp who is currently advocating for a snare cleanse on streak/boundless storm.
I think it's mistake to give such addition to already useful skills.
Streak is a great cc and distance making to avoid *** tonns of damage. Powerfull skill, i really like it and absolutly sure it should not be buffed, srry.
Boundless storm provides expedition and aoe damage aura...it can be too strong with simple snare removal and expedition buff at the same time. Class which is mobile itself with both that things ifrom one skill can become a nightmare for gameplay.
U should choose between usefull options at every class to not be best at everything.
To have and save the balance of classes
So where do we get the snare removal for sorc then. The class feels lackluster to play without it, like something's missing.
To be honest, I have not given the issue much thought because I personally don't think it will happen. Maybe you are right that streak and boundless are already too strong for a snare removal. But maybe not. Personally, I do not feel that either is too ridiculous.
But, take Forward Momentum- offers major brutality, a 33 second long heal, and snare removal/immunity for 8 seconds.
So, why not add it to Surge. Surge gives healing and major brutality/sorcery. It also lasts the same amount of time as forward momentum (33s). So, wouldn't it then, make perfect sense to add this much needed snare cleanse to Power Surge? Because I think it does.
This is the first time I have thought of that. Maybe we need to start advocating for the snare removal to be added to Surge rather than streak/Boundless Storm.0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:
Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.Edited by usmguy1234 on September 10, 2018 2:34AMZaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.
Oh no, that particular setup is a bit too edgy for even me to play. It was just done to prove wrong the "hurr durr I only get 6k tooltip, 9-10k tooltip impossibru" talk.
I was able to get to 8,5k I think it was with a "proper" build (Meteor, Frags, Elem Drain, Hardened, Streak & Rune Cage on bar), and a 500 ulti Balorgh would add 833 to that (9,3k tooltip).
This is (obviously) with the 20% nerf to damage Rune Cage received during last update's PTS, unlike the 10k tooltip, which is from Summerset.
It's good you wrote "almost" though, as overload gank builds would definitely run Bound Aegis and Inner Light on same bar.Edited by DDuke on September 10, 2018 2:50AM1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.
Oh no, that particular setup is a bit too edgy for even me to play. It was just done to prove wrong the "hurr durr I only get 6k tooltip, 9-10k tooltip impossibru" talk.
I was able to get to 8,5k I think it was with a "proper" build (Meteor, Frags, Elem Drain, Hardened, Streak & Rune Cage on bar), and a 500 ulti Balorgh would add 833 to that (9,3k tooltip).
This is (obviously) with the 20% nerf to damage Rune Cage received during last update's PTS, unlike the 10k tooltip, which is from Summerset.
It's good you wrote "almost" though, as overload gank builds would definitely run Bound Aegis and Inner Light on same bar.
Right but that would be on the overload bar not the main bar. The point still remains, no viable build is pulling those numbers. You're lucky to get 2-3k damage on a player in a real world scenario.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.
Oh no, that particular setup is a bit too edgy for even me to play. It was just done to prove wrong the "hurr durr I only get 6k tooltip, 9-10k tooltip impossibru" talk.
I was able to get to 8,5k I think it was with a "proper" build (Meteor, Frags, Elem Drain, Hardened, Streak & Rune Cage on bar), and a 500 ulti Balorgh would add 833 to that (9,3k tooltip).
This is (obviously) with the 20% nerf to damage Rune Cage received during last update's PTS, unlike the 10k tooltip, which is from Summerset.
It's good you wrote "almost" though, as overload gank builds would definitely run Bound Aegis and Inner Light on same bar.
Right but that would be on the overload bar not the main bar. The point still remains, no viable build is pulling those numbers. You're lucky to get 2-3k damage on a player in a real world scenario.
Eh, you're lucky to deal damage at all with Rune Cage now, but I don't think it's worth spending another 7 pages discussing whether that (and it being dodgeable) is a good thing or not.
Main objective of that change was reached: sorc is more balanced in PvP than it was before patch.4 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
It would not be a proper sorcerer thread without Duke trying to compare 3 sorc skills and a 200 cost ultimate with 1 NB skill and a 75 cost ultimate and claim the sorc's higher number is indicative of sorcerers being stronger
Nobody is saying sorcs are stronger/weaker, but their maximum burst is the highest in the game and that's not disputable (or someone would already have proven me wrong with numbers, not insults & rhetoric).
All I'm saying is that burst damage wise sorc is in a good spot right now and claiming anything else is disingenuous.
Only thing they need is fixes/buffs for Streak/BoL - snare/root removal preferably so mDKs wouldn't be the magicka class with most mobility.
A lot of people are saying sorcerers are stronger and a lot are saying they are weaker. There is a lot of disagreement if you hadn't noticed.
Yeah, for 3 skills and a 200 point ultimate, the sorcerer does have a little higher burst than the 1 skill + 75 ulti NB. Who would have guessed?
That's not the only thing sorcerers need. Crystal blast is a useless skill, Frags did not deserve the damage penalty, their PvE sustain isn't any good, Heavy Overload is a terrible ultimate, too many of their passives are useless to stam and non-pet users, Defensive rune in no way needed the nerf it got, and that's not even considering a sorcerer can no longer be played the way a lot of sorcs who fell in love with the class and game used to play.
Edited by Joy_Division on September 10, 2018 3:28AMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.12 -
Finviuswe✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »That's not the only thing sorcerers need. Crystal blast is a useless skill, Frags did not deserve the damage penalty, their PvE sustain isn't any good, Heavy Overload is a terrible ultimate, too many of their passives are useless to stam and non-pet users, Defensive rune in no way needed the nerf it got, and that's not even considering a sorcerer can no longer be played the way a lot of sorcs who fell in love with the class and game used to play.
QFT0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »MetalHead4x4 wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »MetalHead4x4 wrote: »"Sorc, you do not have to be that good to do well on."
In Vivec you have to be good, there's no Sorc easy mode in Vivec if you're not a 50k magicka shield stacker you're gonna have a damn hard time. I know, I play it. Compared to Stam, Magicka classes (especially Sorc) are weak right now. I wish I could eat half the damage physically that Stam classes do magically. There's no comparison.
yet mages fury spam rules all practically cause thats all anyone spams. shield stackers use shields when their about to die making them god for the duration. cc, mages fury spam meanwhile procing frag almost nonstop till the passive nukes you. the only time i see decent sorc play is in sotha thats where you have to actually know how to play. vivec all people do is spam nearly.
Fury does minimal damage, it only affects targets below 20% health and it often doesn't kill them. In fact, on low health NB's if the game reads that the NB is gonna dodge the next attack, Fury doesn't go off. You can literally hit it 5 times and nothing happens, in that time the NB can heal and basically try and nuke you again with a burst combo.
i always watch sorcs just spam mages fury and frag procs from the fury spam. its irritating and you almost kill them they pop a stupid high shield. kindve why ive been gravitating to sotha more. one thing i want buffed is stam sorc before mag sorc cause hey only if 3 abilities can become useful to stamina >_> sure mag needs some things but stam has crap all nearly.
And yet Stam Sorc is still insanely good...
Geez DuskValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.
Oh no, that particular setup is a bit too edgy for even me to play. It was just done to prove wrong the "hurr durr I only get 6k tooltip, 9-10k tooltip impossibru" talk.
I was able to get to 8,5k I think it was with a "proper" build (Meteor, Frags, Elem Drain, Hardened, Streak & Rune Cage on bar), and a 500 ulti Balorgh would add 833 to that (9,3k tooltip).
This is (obviously) with the 20% nerf to damage Rune Cage received during last update's PTS, unlike the 10k tooltip, which is from Summerset.
It's good you wrote "almost" though, as overload gank builds would definitely run Bound Aegis and Inner Light on same bar.
Right but that would be on the overload bar not the main bar. The point still remains, no viable build is pulling those numbers. You're lucky to get 2-3k damage on a player in a real world scenario.
Eh, you're lucky to deal damage at all with Rune Cage now, but I don't think it's worth spending another 7 pages discussing whether that (and it being dodgeable) is a good thing or not.
Main objective of that change was reached: sorc is more balanced in PvP than it was before patch.
Whatever you say, bud. Please leave the thread now
Keep the ideas going guysEdited by Valrien on September 10, 2018 4:10AMValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Somewhere✭✭✭✭Now that, and I hope, the nightblade vs sorcerer argument has died down. I love Lightning Splash, but am I the only one who feels like the morphs are somewhat underwhelming in what they offer? Longer duration or bigger radius (and recently more damage and a marginal cost decrease). I guess I would have simply expected something extra. Personally I love the idea of making one morph a targeted DoT that also damages enemies around the target, essentially moving with the target.
I'm not much of a PvP'er but since it's just a DoT it should be purgeable and not that big of a concern although it would give them some pressure if the opponent has for some reason, no method of purging. The damage dealt ultimately is the same. There would be a downside since if the enemy you placed it on moves away from other targets, you're now getting less AoE, making both morphs useful.1 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
It would not be a proper sorcerer thread without Duke trying to compare 3 sorc skills and a 200 cost ultimate with 1 NB skill and a 75 cost ultimate and claim the sorc's higher number is indicative of sorcerers being stronger
Nobody is saying sorcs are stronger/weaker, but their maximum burst is the highest in the game and that's not disputable (or someone would already have proven me wrong with numbers, not insults & rhetoric).
All I'm saying is that burst damage wise sorc is in a good spot right now and claiming anything else is disingenuous.
Only thing they need is fixes/buffs for Streak/BoL - snare/root removal preferably so mDKs wouldn't be the magicka class with most mobility.
A lot of people are saying sorcerers are stronger and a lot are saying they are weaker. There is a lot of disagreement if you hadn't noticed.
Yeah, for 3 skills and a 200 point ultimate, the sorcerer does have a little higher burst than the 1 skill + 75 ulti NB. Who would have guessed?
That's not the only thing sorcerers need. Crystal blast is a useless skill, Frags did not deserve the damage penalty, their PvE sustain isn't any good, Heavy Overload is a terrible ultimate, too many of their passives are useless to stam and non-pet users, Defensive rune in no way needed the nerf it got, and that's not even considering a sorcerer can no longer be played the way a lot of sorcs who fell in love with the class and game used to play.
Agreed. Defensive rune nerf was not needed.1 -
Qwazzy✭✭✭✭Snare immunity + frag stunSmallscale/Solo player on multiple servers
PC North America - CharactersAD Sorcerer - PvP 16
AD Templar - PvP 33
AD Nightblade - PvP 17
AD Dragonknight - PvP 19
AD Necromancer - PvP 22
EP Sorcerer - PvP 20
EP Templar - PvP 21
EP Nightblade - PvP 20
DC Sorcerer - PvP 16
DC Templar - PvP 24
DC Nightblade - PvP 18Xbox North America - CharactersAD Sorcerer - PvP 32
AD Sorcerer - PvP 20
AD Sorcerer - PvP 14
AD Templar - PvP 41
AD Templar - PvP 16
AD Templar - PvP 14
AD Warden - PvP 29
AD Nightblade - PvP 27
AD Dragonknight - PvP 18
AD Necromancer - PvP 14Xbox Europe - CharactersAD Sorcerer - PvP 42
AD Templar - PvP 36
EP Sorcerer - PvP 163 -
f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd like all of that and also add a snare removal to boundless storm and reduce the cost increase and self stun on streak.
I don't agree with the streak thing as it is plenty powerful already.
However, classes that are intended to be mobile need a snare removal / short term snare immunity (since most snares are ground effects) This should clearly be storm / hurricane on sorc and path on NB's. Giving these classes mobility abilities that provide major expedition is of little use when PVP is perma-snare land. Mobility is basically about dropping snares and so mobility abilities should do that.
As for other "buffs" I have a few pet suggestions that are really just fixes
1) Pets should not die to boss mechanics, period. Don't give them x% immunity to ground aoe's as that is not fair in PVP. Simply make them totally immune to all NPC and environmental damage. Right now Pets die and are useless on many trials fights. That is not viable.
2) Your crap pathing is counting pets as NPC's so other NPC's cannot run though them to get to the tank that taunted them. FIX IT! Pets commonly keep trash from properly being stacked. It is so annoying and can cause wipes when the NPC's are dangerous and must be quickly stacked and cleaved.
3) It is my understanding pets still steal heals. FIX IT.
4) Pets often bug and quit attacking targets but rather just follow you and do nothing. In fact, they always do this for some reason in the second trash pull of vMoL. I have to de-spawn them to remedy it. FIX IT.
5) Pets do not always attack the target the player has indicated. FIX IT.
6) Pets taking two bar spaces is very inconvenient and was not always so. They are really not powerful enough to justify needing to be dubble slotted. Scamp is a less powerful AOE than either wall of elements, twisting path, or liquid lightning and twilight is basically a breath of life that can die and malfunction but takes two bar slots. Why do they take twice as many bar slots as similar abilities that are manifestly better?
7) Really, it would be better if sorc pets were just animations like most of the warden ones and not actually spawned NPC's. You could leave the atro a spawn to be like the warden bear but the others would be better as just animated abilities. Clearly, after 4 years, it does not seem likely that your going to get pets to work very well as NPC spawns.
Edited by f047ys3v3n on September 10, 2018 6:29AMI am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@DDuke
Its funny how you come now in NON-CP mode talking about your statistics and with TOOLTIP damage while back then you where claiming that rune cage deals 9k damage TO PLAYERS in cp campain. YOUR sets used DO NOT WORK in reality, unless youre in a group with healers. I play alone that glassy builds can never work for solo play neither for duels. If you insist it works @Nicko_Lps add me and duel me. Until then find a better argument because we can always use 0 brain tactics and come up with 3 proc sets in magblade+stamblade to ensure they are the best dps classes.
I don't have my mSorc geared up right now, otherwise I'd be happy to teach you how to play your main class. Always happy to show how meditate works with zero sustain build on my NB or DK though - it's not much different.
Also, I said I can get Rune Cage to 9-10k damage tooltip when people were QQ'ing about only having 6,5k'ish tooltips in CP environment - and I did get it way over 9k.
Do I need to dig up those posts? The story goes like this: forum peasants were wrong, Decimus was right. End of story.
Also, feel free to use any combination of proc sets (or full dmg sets) on a magblade or stamblade. I can guarantee a mSorc will deal more burst with those same sets equipped.
NB burst is naturally limited as it's a class without delayed damage, unlike literally every other class in game: DKs have FoO, Wardens have Shalks+birds with long travel time, Sorcs have Curse+Fury, Templars have Purifying Light/POTL...
No delayed damage=more limited 1GCD burst. Nothing wrong with that of course, it just is what it is.If you recall our posts where deleted, but if Derra is your friend ask him since he was a part of this conversation he would remember your great math and the unforgettable 9k cage damage to players in cp campain. Because i took you seriously back then, ive proved you how wrong you are simply because you forgot to calculate the defensive CP and you came up with 110k burst magsorc while you efficiently taken account of offensive CP like a math pro you are.
Yes, and I also came up with tooltip burst (very important distinction to make) numbers for other classes as well, did I not? After all, that's what I was comparing the sorc burst to.
If you want to know numbers after defensive modifiers it's also easy to calculate and doesn't really favour one class over the other because that's dependent on targets' mitigations, not your class.
This has proven to be too complicated to understand for many, so I've recently just compared non-CP numbers.
But please, come up with whatever build setup you can come up with for any class & I'll compare it to sorc burst. Then tell me CP allocation & target's mitigations and I'll factor those in just to prove my point.As ive said before in case you missed it, i never used cage(before the nerf) and probably never will. Did not need cage to emp myself in vivec entirely alone, without groups+buffs+mutagens+APbuff+ICflagswapping.
Cool story, I don't know what it matters though. Farming emperor (or "zerg stars" for that matter) is a matter of how much someone plays, not how well they play.My ward is like 11k, as ive said in case youre blind ive taken many times bow procs of 15k(magblade), now if you add soul harvest before that you successfully burst both shields in 1 sec.
But i know 15k bow proc+7-8k SH+LA+DoT+ swallow soul are all completely balanced things along with the shade 15% dmg reduction. Curse+frag+fury is broken. <----Your brain.
So your light armor (probably 7 divines or smth) sorc has taken big bow procs from NBs and that's now empirical evidence that NBs have the best burst in the game? This is exactly why you can't factor in personal experiences alone & try to deduce some deeper truth from that. By that logic my bowblade is now a god for doing this on a naked player with no CPs:
Obviously that's not what Lethal Arrow crits for normally, just as 15k isn't what Merciless will crit for on most occasions (atleast in noCP). You would know that, if you actually ever played a NB.
Luckily we can employ math to find the truth of things, rather than base everything on our (limited) personal experiences.
Wow @Nicko_Lps i think you hit a nerve lol. 10/10 sir, particular for generating this classic of a line to be quoted for ever more "forum peasants were wrong, Decimus was right. End of story" absolute icing on the cake to see true, raw OP ego burst out.
What i do recall was Decimus saying repeatedly was the 10k tooltip being the issue with cage..... Repeatedly, like a 1000 times. Then Cage damage got a Nerf, and.......opa, the story changed. Damage was not the issue any more with cage.
Forum Peasants 1, Decimus -1 (own goal)
Nite all.
It's funny, because you're on that screenshot. Claiming so surely that 9-10k Rune Cage tooltip didn't exist.
...and no, thinking that the tooltip damage was the problem was a bit shortsighted.
It was accurate at the time (Summerset) based on calculations, but as gear choices expended (i.e. Balorgh) it became unrealistic to expect even damageless Rune Cage to always remain balanced as long as builds exist that depend on avoiding damage.
Opinions change, they're not set in stone.
Funny? Not as funny as your ego creeping out chap honestly, you have really embarrassed yourself this time.
Anyway nice try at deflection tho, that screenshot isnt relevant to what we are talking about but surr bring it up - your point was Rune Cage needed a Nerf for all players because of the tool tip. You produce a build that you say has just shy of 10k so everyone, every single player needed to run that build do they? Any skill you build into can have a high tool tip. Does it mean it needs a Nerf?
Regardless, tip for tat gets old what I'm glad about is that this whole bit in bold is you admiting you were totally wrong. Again the ego has protected those words actually coming out. But that's the sentiment right
"Opinions change, they're not set in stone" = @DDuke admitting he was totally wrong.
Edited by Beardimus on September 10, 2018 6:56AMXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach1 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Again @DDuke i have to ask, why are you even here?
It's like the OP NightBlade bat signal has gone off again. Surely you aren't still struggling enough to counter Sorcs this patch to need to bother with all this? Surely you have learnt to counter them by now?
At least in U20 wards are getting nerfed too that will help you.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach1 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭some skills may need adjustment but so does every class : D
but the changes you propose are insane1 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.
Oh no, that particular setup is a bit too edgy for even me to play. It was just done to prove wrong the "hurr durr I only get 6k tooltip, 9-10k tooltip impossibru" talk.
I was able to get to 8,5k I think it was with a "proper" build (Meteor, Frags, Elem Drain, Hardened, Streak & Rune Cage on bar), and a 500 ulti Balorgh would add 833 to that (9,3k tooltip).
This is (obviously) with the 20% nerf to damage Rune Cage received during last update's PTS, unlike the 10k tooltip, which is from Summerset.
It's good you wrote "almost" though, as overload gank builds would definitely run Bound Aegis and Inner Light on same bar.
Right but that would be on the overload bar not the main bar. The point still remains, no viable build is pulling those numbers. You're lucky to get 2-3k damage on a player in a real world scenario.
@usmguy1234 honestly dude he doesn't care. Ego takes over and fires statements or numbers about. He insults peoples handling of maths like arithmatic is the issue yet its what is being added up and context.
In short, he struggles with sorcs. He's reliant on easy mode builds to get by, and Sorcs smoke him. So we have this campaign every now and then.
What I'm confused about is what he's struggling with at present with sorcs as they nerfed to oblivion. But i don't think we've reached that actual point yet.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
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Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach2 -
Moltyr✭✭✭NOTHING. The only thing sorc could maybe use is a class AoE ability (like NB's sap for instance). Sorc and I'm going to bold this so you know it's important true: SORC IS THE ABSOLUTE EASIEST CLASS IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW.
"But moltyr don't say that they are tough!"
I got flawless on my sorc my second VMA run. With no potions. Or sigils. Prior to that I haven't done VMA in over a year. For both PvE and PvP sorc can still stack ridiculous shields, and that along with crit surge is just very difficult to overcome. For PvP, unless you're a DK spamming wings...I'm sure sorcs are pretty tough for you. They can kite even the fastest stam guys, all while doing insane damage and again...shields for days.
Sorcs need NOTHING. But maybe could use an AoE class ability similar to sap.
Please don't be triggered by this post, if I could do it again...I would have made sorc my main character... too late now! :P3 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NOTHING. The only thing sorc could maybe use is a class AoE ability (like NB's sap for instance). Sorc and I'm going to bold this so you know it's important true: SORC IS THE ABSOLUTE EASIEST CLASS IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW.
"But moltyr don't say that they are tough!"
I got flawless on my sorc my second VMA run. With no potions. Or sigils. Prior to that I haven't done VMA in over a year. For both PvE and PvP sorc can still stack ridiculous shields, and that along with crit surge is just very difficult to overcome. For PvP, unless you're a DK spamming wings...I'm sure sorcs are pretty tough for you. They can kite even the fastest stam guys, all while doing insane damage and again...shields for days.
Sorcs need NOTHING. But maybe could use an AoE class ability similar to sap.
Please don't be triggered by this post, if I could do it again...I would have made sorc my main character... too late now! :P
Literally any stam build with a couple swift is faster than a streaking sorc with major expidition. You lose a lot of momentum with streak so its not that fast in the long run. Besides that, you waste all your magicka if you streak a couple times. Even with 46k max magicka and 3.3k mag regen.
The problem is that sorcs cannot deal with snares, dodge roll too often and you get CCed without stamina to break-free.
Sorcs sure are easy to play offensivy in pvp because they’re build for burst. In pve I find sorcs very limited. vMA circomstances isnt something you often see, usually you’re in group/raid and simply do 10k less dps than the magblades.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.
Thats what he does, useless builds with big max magica+spell damage potential and then he comes on forums and whines about how OP sorc burst is with a non-usuable build, ofcourse he claims he is the FORUM GOD while the forum peasants cant make it work, he has the KNOWLEDGE to make it work...
Magsorc...Meditate in 1v1... UG UG5 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.
Please tell me how the class is balanced
Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...
The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.
Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.
Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.
Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.
In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc
Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.
The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.
Why is it fair that 7 (seven) NBs are invited for DPS, DKs and templars can be BiS at tanking or healing, whereas magsorcs can only DPS and do it bad? It's not like magsorcs cannot be replaced for buffing too.
We are going back to 2015, when trials had a grand total of zero (0) sorcs. For now, trial guilds constantly ask me to log in my magblade, in a short while the "ask" shall become: "demand".Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Darkenarlol wrote: »damn how i like it =D
so a bunch of loud but incompetent ( oh sorry daus is great at giving incaps into EG sphere - so pro so skilled lol lol)
forumblades keep trying to dictate how sorcs should be balanced, what they need and what they don't need... just lol
actually the question is - can forumblades gank sorc's balance thru forums and sabotaging class rep discords?
we'll see
They can. They class representative even had the face to come to the official sorcs feedback thread and tell us that they (the NB representative) are managing our balance.
And in fact, we see patch after patch, they seem written by NBs for NBs. Nobody else even comes close.
Nobody except sorcs still have the numbers to try and fight back this factual dictatorship (ZOS bending down to who pays the most as usual). However the other, repressed classes, instead of teaming up with sorcs to try and displace NBs from dictatorship, they fight against them and achieve.... a fat zero.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO3 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭2. streak break roots...ability wich make a distance betveen u and opponent and cc him...to break roots and as i understand snares...kidding? snare-root removal should be absolutly not this skill. U should sacrifice something to get it. another classes have no such busrt, timing, execute and cc abilities as sorcs. Every skill should be a part of the game, but not above the game.
The cc is mediocre. I would be fine if it is dropped for the tradeoff to be able to break roots and stuns. Something like this is common in WoW since day 1 and they really did an awesome job with that. Never played that game?
0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭2. streak break roots...ability wich make a distance betveen u and opponent and cc him...to break roots and as i understand snares...kidding? snare-root removal should be absolutly not this skill. U should sacrifice something to get it. another classes have no such busrt, timing, execute and cc abilities as sorcs. Every skill should be a part of the game, but not above the game.
The cc is mediocre. I would be fine if it is dropped for the tradeoff to be able to break roots and stuns. Something like this is common in WoW since day 1 and they really did an awesome job with that. Never played that game?
Ive played wow many years, i really dont feel WoW's mages that streak out of all stuns + stun spam everyone + ultimate mobility is healthy for ESO.
I would rather slow my opponents as WoW's mages have them perma-slow + root on cooldown rather than streak out of stuns0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭2. streak break roots...ability wich make a distance betveen u and opponent and cc him...to break roots and as i understand snares...kidding? snare-root removal should be absolutly not this skill. U should sacrifice something to get it. another classes have no such busrt, timing, execute and cc abilities as sorcs. Every skill should be a part of the game, but not above the game.
The cc is mediocre. I would be fine if it is dropped for the tradeoff to be able to break roots and stuns. Something like this is common in WoW since day 1 and they really did an awesome job with that. Never played that game?
Nah, streak's stun must not go. It doesn't open up much of an offensive window, that is correct, but it's a great disruption against groups and somehow the only stun on many stamsorc's builds that don't run SnB.
I think streak and BoL aren't in such a great spot that a buff also means that a nerf is needed. Currently it can be outran, it's suspectable to gap closers, it kills momentum, it's useless on uneven terrain, too short stun and has giant stacking costs.
At least fix the whiplash and terrain issues and it still has downsides. Maybe increase stun by 0.5-1s? Then we can talk about buff-nerf balance and stacking costs. Also mind that Streak is ment for offense. BoL is the defensive morph.
If all goes to waste, maybe add snare immunity to bound armor, so we at least sometimes click that skill? I meam it's mandatory to slot anyway, so why not make it's active part somehow useful? Speaking from a non-tank perspective.0 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭2. streak break roots...ability wich make a distance betveen u and opponent and cc him...to break roots and as i understand snares...kidding? snare-root removal should be absolutly not this skill. U should sacrifice something to get it. another classes have no such busrt, timing, execute and cc abilities as sorcs. Every skill should be a part of the game, but not above the game.
The cc is mediocre. I would be fine if it is dropped for the tradeoff to be able to break roots and stuns. Something like this is common in WoW since day 1 and they really did an awesome job with that. Never played that game?
Ive played wow many years, i really dont feel WoW's mages that streak out of all stuns + stun spam everyone + ultimate mobility is healthy for ESO.
I would rather slow my opponents as WoW's mages have them perma-slow + root on cooldown rather than streak out of stuns
We already have 2H people spamming forward momentum to avoid each and every cc. And in its current state streak costs an insane amount of resources if you would spam it.0
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