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What Do You Guys Feel Needs To Be Buffed With Sorc?
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Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
"Useless builds"
Here, have some of those useless builds.
Still waiting for you to become anyone relevant.
and shall we add some context back, avoiding another deflection / straw man response - where is your build video for your 60K Magika almost 10K tool tip rune cage video? I'm sure we'd all love to see it. Sounded OP, and mega versatile, well rounded build. Keen to watch. heck of a build.
#ShowThe PeasantsXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
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Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭"Opinions change, they're not set in stone" = @DDuke admitting he was totally wrong.
About what? That damage was the problem with Rune Cage? Yeah, as I outlined it was a shortsighted notion that didn't take into account potential future changes. Not exactly wrong at the time though when you calculated sorc maximum burst & the minimum viable build health in noCP/CP environment, but whatever.
Some of us atleast can admit we're wrong... others keep spouting nonsense even after having been proven wrong with facts (i.e. math).Again @DDuke i have to ask, why are you even here?
It's like the OP NightBlade bat signal has gone off again. Surely you aren't still struggling enough to counter Sorcs this patch to need to bother with all this? Surely you have learnt to counter them by now?
At least in U20 wards are getting nerfed too that will help you.
Yes, and I'd like it to remain that way. If I see a post saying sorc needs buffs in... well, literally everything, I'm going to respond because I don't agree with it, and anyone who cares about pesky things such as numbers wouldn't agree with it.
There are areas where sorcs could use help (e.g. something to deal with snares/roots, better sustained dps as they're lacking in PvE etc etc), but burst damage or shields or implosion passive aren't it, and that's pretty obvious to anyone who understands how this game and numbers work.usmguy1234 wrote: »Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:
Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.
Thats what he does, useless builds with big max magica+spell damage potential and then he comes on forums and whines about how OP sorc burst is with a non-usuable build, ofcourse he claims he is the FORUM GOD while the forum peasants cant make it work, he has the KNOWLEDGE to make it work...
Magsorc...Meditate in 1v1... UG UG
"Useless builds"
Here, have some of those useless builds.
Still waiting for you to become anyone relevant.
When you see a buff nightblade do you jump in and tell them what the real balance is?
There is a buff medium armor post, did not see you protest over there mr forum-SJW. Let me guess, you did not because medium armor NEEDS a buff right?
Im having some fun atm in forums because my GPU is burned out and as i live in the middle of nowhere i have to wait a week for it to travel to me, so now that i know based on facts that you ALWAYS are protesting VS buff sorc threats on forum... Im thinking to make myself a more regular forum user because you are very entertaining.
I didn't, I've actually posted in favour of medium armor buffs because such changes would be backed by actual evidence (yes, that in the end matters more than petty feelings & emotions) that medium armor underperforms compared to heavy.
When a heavy armor build can achieve the exact same mobility, tank far better and deal the same (or very close to same) damage with sets like 7th & Fury, there's a problem - and I don't see anyone with evidence to the contrary.
Saying sorc burst needs buffs or shields need buffs (or that sorcs need a unavoidable CC) isn't backed by any factual data, those are simply feelings of people of varying skill levels.
Guess who is more likely to be listened to; the guy with the data & sound argument, or the person who "feels" based on personal experiences that something needs buffs/nerfs?Edited by DDuke on September 10, 2018 1:38PM1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sustain is an issue with most classes/ rotations that dont use a HA. But its also what seoarates the average from great players (sorry but its true).
I would like to see pets not being able to be targeted by mechanics though. It would allow for pet sorcs to be viable in say vMoL.
vMOL is arguably the least problematic trial to do as pet sorc. Where do you get issues? Only one I can see is if you are not good at managing scamp and you let it stun twins adds, making them immune to tanks chains.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"Opinions change, they're not set in stone" = @DDuke admitting he was totally wrong.
About what? That damage was the problem with Rune Cage? Yeah, as I outlined it was a shortsighted notion that didn't take into account potential future changes. Not exactly wrong at the time though when you calculated sorc maximum burst & the minimum viable build health in noCP/CP environment, but whatever.
Some of us atleast can admit we're wrong... others keep spouting nonsense even after having been proven wrong with facts (i.e. math).Again @DDuke i have to ask, why are you even here?
It's like the OP NightBlade bat signal has gone off again. Surely you aren't still struggling enough to counter Sorcs this patch to need to bother with all this? Surely you have learnt to counter them by now?
At least in U20 wards are getting nerfed too that will help you.
Yes, and I'd like it to remain that way. If I see a post saying sorc needs buffs in... well, literally everything, I'm going to respond because I don't agree with it, and anyone who cares about pesky things such as numbers wouldn't agree with it.
There are areas where sorcs could use help (e.g. something to deal with snares/roots, better sustained dps as they're lacking in PvE etc etc), but burst damage or shields or implosion passive aren't it, and that's pretty obvious to anyone who understands how this game and numbers work.usmguy1234 wrote: »Shield is the main issue of why sorc can't compete in PvP.
Shield stacking Harness and hardened need to be removed, because it's jail sorc need to go out.Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
That is not even including the ultimate cost. Let's not forgot NB have a 4 button combo ( 2*LA - incap - merciless ) while sorc need to press 6 button ( comet - 2*la - CC [cage/clench] - curse -frag )
Sure, not disputing it takes more time to setup sorc burst.
It however still deals more damage within one global cooldown than nightblade one (i.e. maximum burst).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?
Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!
Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?
I'll just copy paste this here:Using same setup on both characters.
Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery
Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc
NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst
and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst
Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238
Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).
Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).
You intentionally forgot guranteed crit , impale & flame reach + sneak and minor berseker bonus for NB ? Isnt it ?
I hate bad numbers.
Guaranteed crit on what, light attack? And what are you even talking about?
Minor Berserk is factored in (you can read it on the NB buffs) and Incap is used as CC in order to actually land the Merciless (close to) within one global cooldown like sorc burst.
If you add in Flame Reach & Impale to the mix it takes 3 global cooldowns to land the whole "burst", which means 2 seconds for your opponent (assuming you land the first LA+CC with Flame Reach) for your opponent to react.
I hate people who don't understand game mechanics but still proceed to make ignorant posts on the forums.
This isn't true at all.
EVERYONE with a half brain Block the meteor.
Sorc ultimate burst is the weakest you can find because people block everything (only curse is unblocable) and block reduce the damage to nothing.
Your "sorc have the best burst" was true when rune cage made the burst 100% uncounterable, but this isn't true anymore.
If you get hit by a meteor ultimate sorc burst combo, you are a noob
Eh, I could say the same about getting hit by Incap... after having played NB for over 4 years it's pretty predictable when people are going to use it, and thus it becomes easy to dodge (and then you dodge *all* the burst from NB).
Leap is also easily blocked (or even just made to "miss" by moving fast enough), Soul Assault easily blocked & then cloaked away. Every ultimate has counters.
Nothing prevents you from using DBOS on a Sorc btw, if you want a more "sudden" burst. Especially in noCP.
When you use shooting star on your stamblade ill use DBoS.
Since then lets continue amazing math that proves sorc needs desperately another nerf because before summerset and probably before that as well you are constantly on forums whining about magsorcs
Actually I think sorc needs buffs in the mobility department (Streak/BoL should remove snares/roots) and I think it'd help build diversity if a skill like Encase (or something else) had a DoT portion.
Apart from that, I feel sorc is fairly balanced at the moment. Just like other classes, bad players struggle to kill better players & good ones are dangerous. Nothing new there.
I just don't think they need more burst and that assessment is backed by math when cross-referencing to other classes. And I definitely don't think shields need buffs.
Ofcourse, magsorc is balanced when my curse+reach+frags deal exactly the same damage as 1 bow proc after soul harvest. Its all balanced right? MAX dmg from magblades was 15k, from stamblades 11k.(bow proc)
If your Curse+Reach+Frags deal same damage as one Merciless proc, that's a problem with your build.
With both characters using the exact same gear:
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Reach 4945+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+4%[Altmer Passive])=5538
31 423 total tooltip burst
vs
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263 total tooltip burst
That burst combination of sorc deals 41,1% more damage than Merciless alone, which would indicate you're playing a build with an average of 3425 less spell damage (and/or 34k less magicka) than the NB.
Or that your assessment of sorc burst rotation vs Merciless alone isn't as accurate as you think.Your mathematics is from an imaginary world, sorc will NEVER kill a brained player without lich+shacle/necro. Will manage to kill only scrubs a good player will OoM you with that build in 1m of duel and rekt you in 2 sec as magsorc dies in less than 2 sec without shields.
Cool. Is that why all the sorcs in their Lich Shackle/Necro setups are QQ'ing about being weak? I'd suggest trying out Meditate if you're having sustain issues, perhaps with Cyrodiil's Light off bar (that still lets you stack up a lot of dmg).Bad players always struggle to kill good players and fail. Ive met 2 nightblades(stam+mag) that do not belong to the whineblade category. They have all the tools to OoM me and burst me down like a fly. Now, nightblades have all these amazing tools just because the vast majority of them CANT play their class properly.
That magsorc vs nb above is open world, no LoS no floors no teleports. In case of LoS or teleports 1st to 2nd floor nb is 100% unkillable from 2 sorcs, not just 1.
Sounds like you just died to a better player. Sh*t happens.
If vast majority of stamblades aren't capable of that then it sounds to me like a balanced class - just like sorcs now that vast majority of them aren't capable of killing good players.
Only one of those classes is QQ'ing on the forums though. I guess it's rough for many to get carried by Rune Cage and then have that taken away, but I'm sure people will adapt and just realize they need to get better instead of having the entire class raised up in strength (simultaneously making those who were already strong on sorc overpowered).
My frags+curse deal around 4.5k ea. to 90% of players i meet while my reach depends, usually does around 4k or less. That makes us less than the 15k bow proc ive had.
Stop these tooltip stuff, it works alot differently in cyrodiil you come across monster mistakes like 4-5 months ago you where claiming cage does 9k damage.
So it clearly seems like I need to explain what "tooltip burst" means. Tooltip burst is the damage you'd have on a zero mitigation target after all buffs. This is the best way of calculating burst as it removes variables and hypotethicals from the equation (i.e. you don't have to wonder "hmm, was the target I hit wearing tankier gear when I played X character instead" etc). It's a pretty simple concept.
And I did get 9k tooltip damage (closer to 10k) on Cage back then:
Also if you're only dealing 4,5k damage with Frags/Reach and on the same target you deal 15k with Merciless, that's a problem with your sorc build. Simple as that.
Here's what I've been hit for in this patch (in noCP!) all while trying to burst through shields:Can you 1v1 and stop during the duel to meditate as a magsorc? Are you really playing ESO and really have your magsorc still? Or when you escape a zerg you stop to meditate after 4 streaks rekt ur whole magica pool?
Of course you can.
There's multiple tools in the sorc kit that allow you to use Meditate without getting interrupted (Streak, Defensive Rune, Mines...) and if you get interrupted with Cyrodiil's Light on you get a free shield (since the set makes next cast free after interrupt).
That skill is so strong it works even on less mobile classes without passive defenses like Defensive Rune/Fear Trap/Mines/Cloak/Streak - it's become a must have even on my mDK & magplar regardless of whether I play BGs or Cyrodiil.You cried as hard as anybody could in forums, you and more whineblades ofc for the meteor+cage combo. While your cloak supattack+incap remains BALANCED right? No timing, no nothing just cloak sup attack+lA+incap. Again and again and you complain for sorcs that have to time down: Curse+reach+frag+fury WHILE their shields are still up otherwise they go down like flies. So fyi a sorc times down 6 skills to be as efficient as your stamblade is with 3 and lets not forget that you roll the 4 out of 6.
Yep, for a reason it seems. All the people who got carried by it are now complaining about sorc being weak as they can't associate their lack of talent with their bad performance.
"It's the class, it's not me!"
Classic.
If you think stamblade (or any of the other classes) is so easy, go and play one (preferably a medium one, not heavy TK+Fury+Legion overperforming bs).
Eagerly awaiting for the 1vX montage. I'm yet to see any of the sorcs who QQ about their class do any better on any other class.Better player?
When my BOTH of my shields get bursted down before i apply them YOU think a better player does that or an un-balanced DAMOOGE + that stupid shade that cuts down my dmg 15% ? Get serious man, exit forums play abit with your magsorc and duel me with that sorc setup of urs + ur meditate.
Eh, that just sounds like you got rekt.
Shields aren't supposed to be full on invulnerability - that's why there's multiple combos that go through them if you manage to land everything.
I can almost guarantee that no sorc is running bound aegis and inner light on the same bar. You are just pushing stats to drive the tool tip up. How about using a real build and posting the tool tip then? And if you claim that is a legit build, please post a video of you using it in open world cyrodiil or bg.
Thats what he does, useless builds with big max magica+spell damage potential and then he comes on forums and whines about how OP sorc burst is with a non-usuable build, ofcourse he claims he is the FORUM GOD while the forum peasants cant make it work, he has the KNOWLEDGE to make it work...
Magsorc...Meditate in 1v1... UG UG
"Useless builds"
Here, have some of those useless builds.
Still waiting for you to become anyone relevant.
When you see a buff nightblade do you jump in and tell them what the real balance is?
There is a buff medium armor post, did not see you protest over there mr forum-SJW. Let me guess, you did not because medium armor NEEDS a buff right?
Im having some fun atm in forums because my GPU is burned out and as i live in the middle of nowhere i have to wait a week for it to travel to me, so now that i know based on facts that you ALWAYS are protesting VS buff sorc threats on forum... Im thinking to make myself a more regular forum user because you are very entertaining.
I didn't, I've actually posted in favour of medium armor buffs because such changes would be backed by actual evidence (yes, that in the end matters more than petty feelings & emotions) that medium armor underperforms compared to heavy.
When a heavy armor build can achieve the exact same mobility, tank far better and deal the same (or very close to same) damage with sets like 7th & Fury, there's a problem - and I don't see anyone with evidence to the contrary.
Saying sorc needs buffs or shields need buffs isn't backed by any factual data, those are simply feelings of people of varying skill levels.
Guess who is more likely to be listened to, the guy with the data & sound argument, or the person who "feels" based on personal experiences that something needs buffs/nerfs?
Numbers don't matter at all, when they are fabricated to support somebody's argument. That's why on jury trials the various sides each have their own "number crunchers" and judicial experts.
The whole IRAQ war has been done because a dude had shown "scientific proof" that Saddam had biological weapons facilities. Too bad, the proof was fabricated.
I don't care about PvP at all, but I could not miss one post of yours where you fabricated evidence obtained by Necropotence + other PvE stuff. That's not what people use in PvP, so it's not relevant. However it fabricated fake high numbers, and you use them to attempt and fool somebody.
But here we are not all Wrobels. We don't fall for these simple tactics.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
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ZOS_JesCadminGreetings, we've decided to close this thread since it has been derailed multiple times due to baiting comments.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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