[Class Reps] Meeting Notes - August 16

swirve · August 2018

@zos_ginabruno

I main a healer and these shields you mention, seriously... wow.

Players with shields compliment healers, healing and buffing.

This is going to be a bad change if you nerf shields.

Letho2469 · August 2018

swirve wrote: »

@zos_ginabruno

I main a healer and these shields you mention, seriously... wow.

Players with shields compliment healers, healing and buffing.

This is going to be a bad change if you nerf shields.

It would not be if they payed attention to the whole gameplay design and untied stamina mechanics (dodge roll, break free, sprint) from stamina as a ressource, so that mag and "stam" players could use them equally. This would not even damage class identity much, as we still have different toolsets for sustain, damage, etc.

Move shields to healers to let them "build" players up before a strong mechanic happens that would rather kill ppl if they aren't shielded. this will upvalue healer's roles, their responsibility and viability and even make the gameplay more interesting.

jeskah · August 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Harness Magicka and Conjured Ward skills are overshadowing and diminishing the role of healers

Joining the masses:

NOPE!

Please, review the issue with the class reps, get a median/medicore group or hell, even a pro one run some dungeons, watch what they are doing, discuss it, because in vet dungeons its not the shields...

Its the mainly DPS (i dont really remember, but the top and the median DPS was much lower at One Tamriel than nowadays), the defensive CP-s (yes, they count) and the wide array of selfheals available (back then, only sorcsand magplars had "good" selfheals, now everyone and their mothers have them- and only after those come the shields.

Main issue isthe skyrocketing DPS.

TheUndeadAmulet · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

Class Rating Statistics (380 Entries):

for clarification: these are not the basis of the feedback we provided to the devs, these are supplemental. These are meant to provide the PERCEPTION of players onto how certain classes and specs perform in certain aspects of the game. If you disagree with anything you see here, then the best thing you can do is to simply do an entry yourself and include your own perception to counter it.

Link to the form:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfXLak8XM1xrojAcnMZ8PZmU35DUZjruoh7RC2zTSrHDQuq1Q/viewform

Wait wait wait...

Does that say that magplars have BETTER sustain than magblade and magden???

LMAO I'M DYING

jeskah · August 2018

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Class Rating Statistics (380 Entries):

for clarification: these are not the basis of the feedback we provided to the devs, these are supplemental. These are meant to provide the PERCEPTION of players onto how certain classes and specs perform in certain aspects of the game. If you disagree with anything you see here, then the best thing you can do is to simply do an entry yourself and include your own perception to counter it.

Link to the form:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfXLak8XM1xrojAcnMZ8PZmU35DUZjruoh7RC2zTSrHDQuq1Q/viewform

Wait wait wait...

Does that say that magplars have BETTER sustain than magblade and magden???

LMAO I'M DYING

No. It does not say that.

BohnT · August 2018

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Class Rating Statistics (380 Entries):

for clarification: these are not the basis of the feedback we provided to the devs, these are supplemental. These are meant to provide the PERCEPTION of players onto how certain classes and specs perform in certain aspects of the game. If you disagree with anything you see here, then the best thing you can do is to simply do an entry yourself and include your own perception to counter it.

Link to the form:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfXLak8XM1xrojAcnMZ8PZmU35DUZjruoh7RC2zTSrHDQuq1Q/viewform

Wait wait wait...

Does that say that magplars have BETTER sustain than magblade and magden???

LMAO I'M DYING

No it says the people who took their time to fill out the doc preceive magplar sustain to be better than magblade and magden.

That's a huge difference.
It doesn't mean it's a fact and it doesn't mean that anyone, except for some of those who filled out the doc, thinks this way.

SlowMetabolism · August 2018

The game needs to be split between PvE and PvP every passive in the game needs to be reworked to do different things if you are in one or the other. Same goes for skills, every skill needs to be completely different if you are in PvP or PvE. Even CP or at a bare minimum the Champion Point passives should be adjusted as well as some of them do not help you at all if you are in PvP or dont help/benefit you at all if you are in PvE.

This would expand build diversity and class diversity in both instances of the game. It would make things usable that arent generally used in a PvE environment such as 2h for example while also allowing the classes to shine based on their unique passives and abilities. Every class could be a healer, tank, dd etc if built properly and perhaps each can have their own benefits to being a nightblade tank as opposed to a templar tank, dragonknight tank, warden tank or sorcerer tank.

On the PvP side, every ability being reworked geared towards PvP would again expand build diversity and make many of the abilities that arent worth slotting slottable. Overtuned abilities will have to be looked at in one way or the other and we can get back the class diversity that we have been losing to homogenization of the classes with every update. No more would many stam classes be pigeonholed into running 5-6 weapon abilities to counter the fact that their class has nothing unique to offer or synergize with their playstyle/class.

Everything should have some sort of use.

The class reps program as it stands now is a back and forth of people having to try and balance both PvE abilities and PvP abilities with certain people wanting one thing or the other. If the two are detached from being one and the same then we can have PvP class specific reps and PvE class specific reps who can provide detailed information about how the class is performing what needs changed etc without worrying about fiddling with something that will get PvP'ers upset or vice versa. This is the only way I see not only this class reps program working but the game continuing to expand and become an even bigger worldwide MMO. If they want to take 6 months out of the year to do this right and not put out content for those 6 months I think the entire ESO player base would not mind one bit. It seems now just after this Wolfhunter release that we are again going to be having a new expansion pushed upon us before many things in the game are fixed, balanced or even looked at all.

swirve · August 2018

Letho2469 wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

@zos_ginabruno

I main a healer and these shields you mention, seriously... wow.

Players with shields compliment healers, healing and buffing.

This is going to be a bad change if you nerf shields.

It would not be if they payed attention to the whole gameplay design and untied stamina mechanics (dodge roll, break free, sprint) from stamina as a ressource, so that mag and "stam" players could use them equally. This would not even damage class identity much, as we still have different toolsets for sustain, damage, etc.

Move shields to healers to let them "build" players up before a strong mechanic happens that would rather kill ppl if they aren't shielded. this will upvalue healer's roles, their responsibility and viability and even make the gameplay more interesting.

Ill re

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Class Rating Statistics (380 Entries):

for clarification: these are not the basis of the feedback we provided to the devs, these are supplemental. These are meant to provide the PERCEPTION of players onto how certain classes and specs perform in certain aspects of the game. If you disagree with anything you see here, then the best thing you can do is to simply do an entry yourself and include your own perception to counter it.

Link to the form:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfXLak8XM1xrojAcnMZ8PZmU35DUZjruoh7RC2zTSrHDQuq1Q/viewform

Wait wait wait...

Does that say that magplars have BETTER sustain than magblade and magden???

LMAO I'M DYING

Use your shields to stop yourself dying, b4 they nerf it.

IZZEFlameLash · August 2018

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Class Rating Statistics (380 Entries):

for clarification: these are not the basis of the feedback we provided to the devs, these are supplemental. These are meant to provide the PERCEPTION of players onto how certain classes and specs perform in certain aspects of the game. If you disagree with anything you see here, then the best thing you can do is to simply do an entry yourself and include your own perception to counter it.

Link to the form:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfXLak8XM1xrojAcnMZ8PZmU35DUZjruoh7RC2zTSrHDQuq1Q/viewform

Wait wait wait...

Does that say that magplars have BETTER sustain than magblade and magden???

LMAO I'M DYING

The very same poll say mDK sustains better than any other magicka classes except for Sorcerers. You can see how unreliable that thing is. I'd say this thing is very heavily skewed toward the agenda of 'oh poor mNBs have nothing when you get hit by 10~12k Will and Soul Harvest in reality even on target in heavy with Major Ward and Blood Spawn buff on top of 3k crit resistance and outsustaining basically every classes.

Trout1996 · August 2018

Lmao sorc sustain, especially stamsorc, is the best in the game. 20% health and Stam regen, 15%mag regen, 6%stamina and 6%magicka cost reduction, 15%ultimate cost reduction, Dark Deal/Conversion, Crit.Surge. Versus templar 4% cost reduction, repentence with 10% regen on one bar, restoring aura is way too expensive, and lastly, they finally did something about channelled focus. Tag on sorc's wonderful offensive passives and templar''s worthless ones, and you see why templars are becoming a hard find in cyro. I 1vX on all classes and that's my only gripe in class balance. Oh and also warden NEEDS A CLASS CC, a real one, not frozen garbo.

Letho2469 · August 2018

Trout1996 wrote: »

Lmao sorc sustain, especially stamsorc, is the best in the game. [...]

Please stop spreading ***. Best sustain is nightblades - BY FAR. All other classes' (except for warden which i never have played seriously in pve) sustain is more or less equally "bad", maybe sorcs aren't that worse off, but being a 4/10 while all other classes are 3/10 doesn't matter if there is a 10/10.

aetherial_heavenn · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

As I wrote in another thread, the blame for healers feeling useless belongs squarely with content design. I.e., this is a problem that belongs with @ZOS_Finn's department, not @ZOS_Wrobel's department.

Example of content where healers are marginalized:
The Zaan encounter in Veteran Scalecaller Peak: The biggest killer, the poison cones, must be sidestepped and cannot be healed through (or shielded through, for that matter). Zaan's beam must be blocked and can't be healed through. Zaan's fire breath must be kited and can't be healed through. The ice phases are a DPS race where healing can buy you a few extra seconds, but you won't need those few extra seconds if you have a third DD to push you through that phase quicker. Finally, having an extra DD means that you have to endure fewer mechanics and makes the fight easier.

The Hard Mode Vykosa encounter in Veteran Moon Hunter Keep: Throughout the fight, werewolves spawn. These werewolves have a heavy attack that will hit a typical DD for 80K, so it must be dodged. (The tank could try taking them, but having the wolves close to the boss runs the risk of pushing the boss and getting even more add spawns.) In short, the name of the game is dodging damage. You can't heal (or shield) through 80K hits. (The funny thing is that in vet non-HM, those same wolves hit for a mere pitiful 8.5K--you don't need to dodge, block, or shield.) And because there are so many werewolves that spawn throughout the fight, having an extra DD to kill them more quickly makes the fight noticeably easier. In short, you have damage that must be avoided and can't be healed and having extra DPS means that you can neutralize the source of that damage much more quickly.

Example of content where healers are valued:
Veteran Cloudrest: Healers are arguably the most important role because there is a lot of strong unavoidable ambient damage in the form of Dark Drain and an intensive healing-check mechanic in the form of the Baneful Mark debuff.

The Hard Mode Balorgh encounter in Veteran March of Sacrifices: Unlike its sister dungeon, the HM in vMoS favors having a healer. There are no DPS races except for the final execute burn. Having more DPS doesn't really make things easier or help you avoid mechanics (the hunt skip is a bug and is triggered by timing rather than by high DPS). And there is a lot of ambient damage during the hunt--some of which isn't really feasible to avoid, such as when you need to angle a boss into a trap that is in the water when that water is electrified--that having a healer takes away a lot of the stress and makes the hunts significantly more forgiving.

Content that features 1-shots and mechanics that require damage avoidance is what makes healers feel useless. Content that features DPS checks and where mechanics can be avoided with high DPS is what makes healers feel useless. Content featuring unavoidable ambient damage will make healers more useful. Content where high DPS isn't as important as survival will make healers feel more useful.

The content design team need to actively think about the mechanics that they design and always ask themselves, "How does this challenge the DDs? How does this challenge the tank? How does this challenge the healer?" Good mechanics design will offer challenges for all three roles. They've gotten pretty good in the past couple of years at making sure that the tanks feel useful, but their track record with healers is still very hit-or-miss.

Perfect summery of issues with clear examples. @ZOS_Finn and @ZOS_RobGarrett.

Eyesinthedrk · August 2018

the sorc pve aoe rating is accurate for aoe potential but not for actual play. the nerf to off balance all but killed the lightning staff. the stun from clench and volatile familiar has caused most serious guilds to ban them from trials. sorc dot builds are dead in pve. at this point they have three back bar dots like every other mag dps. except they still get to use the destro ult. because of the buff to the storm atro, sorcs are expected to run that instead of the destro ult.

the best aoe dot class in the game, now run more cp into master at arms than thurmaturge and has been relegated to an unsustainable single target bench warmer because of balance "fixes" over the past few patches.

Soundinfinite · August 2018

idk wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

"ZOS is firm in their stance that high burst damage skills combined with stuns are undesirable and is looking to get away from that."

Where's the nerf for Dizzying Swing?

(Not that it actually needs a nerf, but this new rule they're trying to implement is very inconsistent.)

Dizzy has a full second activation. Very big warning time.

Yes, it does....and wardens shalk had a 3 sec delay load time and Crystal frags has over a full sec cast time...which is interuptable. Why is the cast time for dizzy swing any different. In pvp if you get hit with it, it's almost instant death as u take a massive amount of damage are stunned and can be reverse sliced to Oblivion before getting off the ground.

Xvorg · August 2018

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

5) Where is the magicka sorc counter to reflective scales? It's five years or so into launch and there is still nothing the class can do to get around this. With an inferno staff, the dk can hit me from range as hard if not harder than I can hit him. Where is my counter? Is this even on your radar?

Rune, Mages fury, Daedric curse, Negate, Attro, streak, full HA lit/resto staff, force shock, pulsar, just to name a few.

Wings are a counter to frags and I would dare to say it is the only counter to frags that DK has access.

Ya you shouldnt have that counter to frags. No longer needed. Arguably never was.

I dont have a hard counter to your class. You shouldnt have one to mine. The level of entitlement behind your statement is troubling.

Frags is and should be the sorcs class defining ability. With the amount of dodge in game, it is easily avoided. Reflective scales still being in game is a slap in the face to arguably one of the worst class specs there is.

Does it counter the class or the skill?

I mean, wings also counter assa will, impale, strife and cripple and I see no NB complaining. Maybe because NBs can negate the dmg by cloaking but that's another discuission (actually that's a hard counter on a class). Sorcs can cope with the skill with harness + hardened (harness even returns magicka)

On the other hand, streak IS the defining skill of sorcs, and that is a pretty good hard counter to DKs (and templars) lack of mobility. If you ask any sorc to choose between frags and streak, I'm sure they'll choose streak. A sorc without streak is an easy prey for any DK in PvP.

So, why, why do you cast frags on a DK flapping his wings? And why a DK would ever choose to try to catch a streaking sorc, burning his stam? Both ideas are utterly stupid.

As stupid as droping frags against defensive stance or Shield wall, or those two also should be nerfed?

Xvorg · August 2018

Letho2469 wrote: »

Trout1996 wrote: »

Lmao sorc sustain, especially stamsorc, is the best in the game. [...]

Please stop spreading ***. Best sustain is nightblades - BY FAR. All other classes' (except for warden which i never have played seriously in pve) sustain is more or less equally "bad", maybe sorcs aren't that worse off, but being a 4/10 while all other classes are 3/10 doesn't matter if there is a 10/10.

Sustain on NBs depends on they weaving. No target, no sustain, just the return of siph strikes after some secs. Old siph sttacks though were way better.

Sorcs can sustain quite well on PvP through dark exchange, the thing is they can't do it easily in PvE and that's why some people wants a tool similar to siph strikes... but per se, current siph strikes is not such a great skill compared to what it used to be. Instead you should ask for a dark exchange without a 1.2 secs cast time. 0.5 is more than OK

JumpmanLane · August 2018

Geeze don’t screw around with powerlash. Who cares about synergies with respect to a crappy theme of control. Wtf is my MagDk supposed to do talons/fossilize a Guy to death.

I really wish ZOS would quit screwing around with the game because some re re dies to something. I wish they actually played the game more, particularly PvP.

No offense to the class reps but I’ve seen the DK rep get RECKT in duels to my pals and he’s all in my Kill Counter. Not sure these are the sorts of people ZOS should listen to.

usmguy1234 · August 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

5) Where is the magicka sorc counter to reflective scales? It's five years or so into launch and there is still nothing the class can do to get around this. With an inferno staff, the dk can hit me from range as hard if not harder than I can hit him. Where is my counter? Is this even on your radar?

Rune, Mages fury, Daedric curse, Negate, Attro, streak, full HA lit/resto staff, force shock, pulsar, just to name a few.

Wings are a counter to frags and I would dare to say it is the only counter to frags that DK has access.

Good luck killing a decent mdk/sdk with any of those. On the other hand it's embers->la->skoria proc->sorc shields down-> petrify->leap->lash->powerlash->sorc dead-> gg or venomous claw-> dizzying-> leap->reverse slice->gg

and the sorc will be sleeping meanwhile?

Most people can pull those combos off quicker than you think and it's not a matter of being asleep... it's a matter of you get stunned in a certain part of your rotation, you will be shieldless with only 10k resistances between you and the person attacking you.

Savos_Saren · September 2018

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

5) Where is the magicka sorc counter to reflective scales? It's five years or so into launch and there is still nothing the class can do to get around this. With an inferno staff, the dk can hit me from range as hard if not harder than I can hit him. Where is my counter? Is this even on your radar?

Rune, Mages fury, Daedric curse, Negate, Attro, streak, full HA lit/resto staff, force shock, pulsar, just to name a few.

Wings are a counter to frags and I would dare to say it is the only counter to frags that DK has access.

Good luck killing a decent mdk/sdk with any of those. On the other hand it's embers->la->skoria proc->sorc shields down-> petrify->leap->lash->powerlash->sorc dead-> gg or venomous claw-> dizzying-> leap->reverse slice->gg

and the sorc will be sleeping meanwhile?

Most people can pull those combos off quicker than you think and it's not a matter of being asleep... it's a matter of you get stunned in a certain part of your rotation, you will be shieldless with only 10k resistances between you and the person attacking you.

Your scenario is reliant on the idea that Skoria (RNG proc) is 100% going to pop right after an embers/light attack combo and that the DK already has Leap on standby for said RNG based perfect scenario.

Edit: I wrote the word "based" way too much in the original post.

usmguy1234 · September 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

5) Where is the magicka sorc counter to reflective scales? It's five years or so into launch and there is still nothing the class can do to get around this. With an inferno staff, the dk can hit me from range as hard if not harder than I can hit him. Where is my counter? Is this even on your radar?

Rune, Mages fury, Daedric curse, Negate, Attro, streak, full HA lit/resto staff, force shock, pulsar, just to name a few.

Wings are a counter to frags and I would dare to say it is the only counter to frags that DK has access.

Good luck killing a decent mdk/sdk with any of those. On the other hand it's embers->la->skoria proc->sorc shields down-> petrify->leap->lash->powerlash->sorc dead-> gg or venomous claw-> dizzying-> leap->reverse slice->gg

and the sorc will be sleeping meanwhile?

Most people can pull those combos off quicker than you think and it's not a matter of being asleep... it's a matter of you get stunned in a certain part of your rotation, you will be shieldless with only 10k resistances between you and the person attacking you.

Your scenario is reliant on the idea that Skoria (RNG proc) is 100% going to pop right after an embers/light attack combo and that the DK already has Leap on standby for said RNG based perfect scenario.

Edit: I wrote the word "based" way too much in the original post.

Right, key word there being scenario and just for the sake of argument I used one of the more powerful ones. The highlight that should be taken from that however is that a sorc is one good stun from being melted. And by melted. I don't mean slowly whittled down like most classes, I mean popped like a weasel under a 18 wheeler tire.

aeowulf · September 2018

Letho2469 wrote: »

Trout1996 wrote: »

Lmao sorc sustain, especially stamsorc, is the best in the game. [...]

Please stop spreading ***. Best sustain is nightblades - BY FAR. All other classes' (except for warden which i never have played seriously in pve) sustain is more or less equally "bad", maybe sorcs aren't that worse off, but being a 4/10 while all other classes are 3/10 doesn't matter if there is a 10/10.

Sustain is situational. Some roles sustain better than others in a class. Take NB for example, they have the second worst sustain in the role of tank - basically they need to wait 20 seconds to get back the equivalent of 150 stamina/second. None of their other sustain options are really tank friendly. Now put them in the role of DD, and their sustain is good. DK - great tank sustain, but poor mag DD. Templar - worst sustain of them all in tank role, and i imagine magplar sustain is so high because as a class they get minor magicka steal, if they choose. It's great when soloing, but pointless if someone else in the group is running that on their staff.

It's a lot more complex - you need to consider ALL roles not just push out blanket statements. You also need to look at the cost of class skills, and work out if the class sustain 'is enough' for that role. There is no point in increasing sustain once you 'have enough' so even if a class was getting 10k back a second, they couldn't use it.

Masel · September 2018

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Geeze don’t screw around with powerlash. Who cares about synergies with respect to a crappy theme of control. Wtf is my MagDk supposed to do talons/fossilize a Guy to death.

I really wish ZOS would quit screwing around with the game because some re re dies to something. I wish they actually played the game more, particularly PvP.

No offense to the class reps but I’ve seen the DK rep get RECKT in duels to my pals and he’s all in my Kill Counter. Not sure these are the sorts of people ZOS should listen to.

There's no dk rep. And how's the rest of your post even an argument? I die in PvP, everyone does, I lose on duels, everyone does. So do you. By that argument no-one would qualify

John_Falstaff · September 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

There's no dk rep.

It sort of feels. ^^

ZarkingFrued · September 2018

So the answer to pvp sorcs is a possible nerf to harness magicka and conjured wards because of pve healers??? and looking into taking away sorc overload (skill bar), as well as nerfing burst in general in pvp? GOODBYE SORC, RIP. Sorc IS burst and stun. Not to mention how little I desire seeing pvp without decent burst, no one wants to see 3 hour long 1v1 fights ZOS. Horrible. AND WHY ARE WE STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT UPPERCUT IN PVP? CAST TIME IS TO LONG, AND LITERALLY WALKING INTO THE PLAYER CASTING IT KEEPS IT FROM FIRING. All this makes me wanna get ahead of the utter destruction of this game and start playing something else before it goes to crap. This comment wont even be read.

Checkmath · September 2018

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

So the answer to pvp sorcs is a possible nerf to harness magicka and conjured wards because of pve healers??? and looking into taking away sorc overload (skill bar), as well as nerfing burst in general in pvp? GOODBYE SORC, RIP. Sorc IS burst and stun. Not to mention how little I desire seeing pvp without decent burst, no one wants to see 3 hour long 1v1 fights ZOS. Horrible. AND WHY ARE WE STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT UPPERCUT IN PVP? CAST TIME IS TO LONG, AND LITERALLY WALKING INTO THE PLAYER CASTING IT KEEPS IT FROM FIRING. All this makes me wanna get ahead of the utter destruction of this game and start playing something else before it goes to crap. This comment wont even be read.

@ZarkingFrued
I think you did not read the whole notes properly.
They are looking into shields in PvE, because they want to make healers somehow more important. This does not mean that damage shields will get nerfed, nor was there any word if nerfing shields because of PvP sorcerers. We do not know, what they planned with damage shields, but just assuming its a shield size nerf is wrong.
There also was nothing written about the overload bar of sorcs, but to change overload as ultimate in something more useful for the class rather than those bursty light attacks. Nobody said, that the third skill bar will be even touched.
Also there was nothing written about making magicka sorcerer less bursty, that comment you probably are referring to, was about skills, which provide burst damage and a stun together, not at all about bursty skills like in the sorcerers toolkit. Also the comment about general burst in PvP referred to ganking and burst combos from stealth. Additionally the representatives mentioned, that skills with a cast time need improvements, it is written there too.

ZarkingFrued · September 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

So the answer to pvp sorcs is a possible nerf to harness magicka and conjured wards because of pve healers??? and looking into taking away sorc overload (skill bar), as well as nerfing burst in general in pvp? GOODBYE SORC, RIP. Sorc IS burst and stun. Not to mention how little I desire seeing pvp without decent burst, no one wants to see 3 hour long 1v1 fights ZOS. Horrible. AND WHY ARE WE STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT UPPERCUT IN PVP? CAST TIME IS TO LONG, AND LITERALLY WALKING INTO THE PLAYER CASTING IT KEEPS IT FROM FIRING. All this makes me wanna get ahead of the utter destruction of this game and start playing something else before it goes to crap. This comment wont even be read.

@ZarkingFrued
I think you did not read the whole notes properly.
They are looking into shields in PvE, because they want to make healers somehow more important. This does not mean that damage shields will get nerfed, nor was there any word if nerfing shields because of PvP sorcerers. We do not know, what they planned with damage shields, but just assuming its a shield size nerf is wrong.
There also was nothing written about the overload bar of sorcs, but to change overload as ultimate in something more useful for the class rather than those bursty light attacks. Nobody said, that the third skill bar will be even touched.
Also there was nothing written about making magicka sorcerer less bursty, that comment you probably are referring to, was about skills, which provide burst damage and a stun together, not at all about bursty skills like in the sorcerers toolkit. Also the comment about general burst in PvP referred to ganking and burst combos from stealth. Additionally the representatives mentioned, that skills with a cast time need improvements, it is written there.

In case you haven't noticed ZOS does not balance pve and pvp separately like they should, so any shield change because of healers in pve will affect pvp shields, which could render sorc useless. I never claimed they were talking about shield nerfing because of pvp sorcerers, that's the point. Needing them because of pve healers is not the answer to pvp sorc problems, but will unintentionally wreck the class. And could you think of any shield changes possible that dont include nerfing shield size? They're already short lived.

I'm allowed to have an opinion on overload as well btw lol, any real functioning rework of overload most likely would change it entirely from being a toggle on and off light attack heavy attack ultimate to a regular ulti, more than likely getting rid of the 3rd bar as they already got rid of ulti swap on the bar. While a real sorc ulti would be nice, overload bar becomes essential in the build. Unless they plan on making more useless and pointless changes to an already useless (aside from the 3rd bar) ulti. Then whatever, continue to waste time.

"ZOS is firm in their stance that high burst damage skills combined with stuns are undesirable and is looking to get away from that." If I rune cage then frag you, that is called a combination or, combo. Clarification might be nice ZOS. Like saying "high burst damage skills THAT also stun"

High burst damage from stealth (mostly via Snipe and Overload) needed better ques (as opposed to flat nerfs). ZOS told us they were working on bugs (such as Snipe health desynchs) to help and suggested that they may look into PvP burst damage more generally
When you talk about a specific type of burst, here specifically stealth burst, then say you are gonna look into PVP burst damage more generally, it means just that. That they have intentions of looking into changing burst damage in PVP in GENERAL, not just in reference to stealth.

I think you did not read the whole notes properly.

Checkmath · September 2018

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

So the answer to pvp sorcs is a possible nerf to harness magicka and conjured wards because of pve healers??? and looking into taking away sorc overload (skill bar), as well as nerfing burst in general in pvp? GOODBYE SORC, RIP. Sorc IS burst and stun. Not to mention how little I desire seeing pvp without decent burst, no one wants to see 3 hour long 1v1 fights ZOS. Horrible. AND WHY ARE WE STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT UPPERCUT IN PVP? CAST TIME IS TO LONG, AND LITERALLY WALKING INTO THE PLAYER CASTING IT KEEPS IT FROM FIRING. All this makes me wanna get ahead of the utter destruction of this game and start playing something else before it goes to crap. This comment wont even be read.

@ZarkingFrued
I think you did not read the whole notes properly.
They are looking into shields in PvE, because they want to make healers somehow more important. This does not mean that damage shields will get nerfed, nor was there any word if nerfing shields because of PvP sorcerers. We do not know, what they planned with damage shields, but just assuming its a shield size nerf is wrong.
There also was nothing written about the overload bar of sorcs, but to change overload as ultimate in something more useful for the class rather than those bursty light attacks. Nobody said, that the third skill bar will be even touched.
Also there was nothing written about making magicka sorcerer less bursty, that comment you probably are referring to, was about skills, which provide burst damage and a stun together, not at all about bursty skills like in the sorcerers toolkit. Also the comment about general burst in PvP referred to ganking and burst combos from stealth. Additionally the representatives mentioned, that skills with a cast time need improvements, it is written there.

In case you haven't noticed ZOS does not balance pve and pvp separately like they should, so any shield change because of healers in pve will affect pvp shields, which could render sorc useless. I never claimed they were talking about shield nerfing because of pvp sorcerers, that's the point. Needing them because of pve healers is not the answer to pvp sorc problems, but will unintentionally wreck the class. And could you think of any shield changes possible that dont include nerfing shield size? They're already short lived.

I'm allowed to have an opinion on overload as well btw lol, any real functioning rework of overload most likely would change it entirely from being a toggle on and off light attack heavy attack ultimate to a regular ulti, more than likely getting rid of the 3rd bar as they already got rid of ulti swap on the bar. While a real sorc ulti would be nice, overload bar becomes essential in the build. Unless they plan on making more useless and pointless changes to an already useless (aside from the 3rd bar) ulti. Then whatever, continue to waste time.

"ZOS is firm in their stance that high burst damage skills combined with stuns are undesirable and is looking to get away from that." If I rune cage then frag you, that is called a combination or, combo. Clarification might be nice ZOS. Like saying "high burst damage skills THAT also stun"

High burst damage from stealth (mostly via Snipe and Overload) needed better ques (as opposed to flat nerfs). ZOS told us they were working on bugs (such as Snipe health desynchs) to help and suggested that they may look into PvP burst damage more generally
When you talk about a specific type of burst, here specifically stealth burst, then say you are gonna look into PVP burst damage more generally, it means just that. That they have intentions of looking into changing burst damage in PVP in GENERAL, not just in reference to stealth.

I think you did not read the whole notes properly.

Oh I am sry, I only was present, when the notes were written...my bad.
You can read the notes as you like, I just wanted to show, where you might misunderstand certain things and interpret things into phrases, which may have other meanings.

Dracane · September 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

So the answer to pvp sorcs is a possible nerf to harness magicka and conjured wards because of pve healers??? and looking into taking away sorc overload (skill bar), as well as nerfing burst in general in pvp? GOODBYE SORC, RIP. Sorc IS burst and stun. Not to mention how little I desire seeing pvp without decent burst, no one wants to see 3 hour long 1v1 fights ZOS. Horrible. AND WHY ARE WE STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT UPPERCUT IN PVP? CAST TIME IS TO LONG, AND LITERALLY WALKING INTO THE PLAYER CASTING IT KEEPS IT FROM FIRING. All this makes me wanna get ahead of the utter destruction of this game and start playing something else before it goes to crap. This comment wont even be read.

@ZarkingFrued
I think you did not read the whole notes properly.
They are looking into shields in PvE, because they want to make healers somehow more important. This does not mean that damage shields will get nerfed, nor was there any word if nerfing shields because of PvP sorcerers. We do not know, what they planned with damage shields, but just assuming its a shield size nerf is wrong.
There also was nothing written about the overload bar of sorcs, but to change overload as ultimate in something more useful for the class rather than those bursty light attacks. Nobody said, that the third skill bar will be even touched.
Also there was nothing written about making magicka sorcerer less bursty, that comment you probably are referring to, was about skills, which provide burst damage and a stun together, not at all about bursty skills like in the sorcerers toolkit. Also the comment about general burst in PvP referred to ganking and burst combos from stealth. Additionally the representatives mentioned, that skills with a cast time need improvements, it is written there too.

But isn't that the only logical conclusion here ?
They want to adjust shields to make healers more needed and this can exclusively be achieved by nerfing something about them. Be it size, function or reliability. In order to make something less usefull, a nerf must occur. Teach me if me and the others are wrong.

IZZEFlameLash · September 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

So the answer to pvp sorcs is a possible nerf to harness magicka and conjured wards because of pve healers??? and looking into taking away sorc overload (skill bar), as well as nerfing burst in general in pvp? GOODBYE SORC, RIP. Sorc IS burst and stun. Not to mention how little I desire seeing pvp without decent burst, no one wants to see 3 hour long 1v1 fights ZOS. Horrible. AND WHY ARE WE STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT UPPERCUT IN PVP? CAST TIME IS TO LONG, AND LITERALLY WALKING INTO THE PLAYER CASTING IT KEEPS IT FROM FIRING. All this makes me wanna get ahead of the utter destruction of this game and start playing something else before it goes to crap. This comment wont even be read.

@ZarkingFrued
I think you did not read the whole notes properly.
They are looking into shields in PvE, because they want to make healers somehow more important. This does not mean that damage shields will get nerfed, nor was there any word if nerfing shields because of PvP sorcerers. We do not know, what they planned with damage shields, but just assuming its a shield size nerf is wrong.
There also was nothing written about the overload bar of sorcs, but to change overload as ultimate in something more useful for the class rather than those bursty light attacks. Nobody said, that the third skill bar will be even touched.
Also there was nothing written about making magicka sorcerer less bursty, that comment you probably are referring to, was about skills, which provide burst damage and a stun together, not at all about bursty skills like in the sorcerers toolkit. Also the comment about general burst in PvP referred to ganking and burst combos from stealth. Additionally the representatives mentioned, that skills with a cast time need improvements, it is written there too.

It does mean that the shields will be nerfed. Come on, you know this already. This is how ZOS works when they 'look into it'

Checkmath · September 2018

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

So the answer to pvp sorcs is a possible nerf to harness magicka and conjured wards because of pve healers??? and looking into taking away sorc overload (skill bar), as well as nerfing burst in general in pvp? GOODBYE SORC, RIP. Sorc IS burst and stun. Not to mention how little I desire seeing pvp without decent burst, no one wants to see 3 hour long 1v1 fights ZOS. Horrible. AND WHY ARE WE STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT UPPERCUT IN PVP? CAST TIME IS TO LONG, AND LITERALLY WALKING INTO THE PLAYER CASTING IT KEEPS IT FROM FIRING. All this makes me wanna get ahead of the utter destruction of this game and start playing something else before it goes to crap. This comment wont even be read.

@ZarkingFrued
I think you did not read the whole notes properly.
They are looking into shields in PvE, because they want to make healers somehow more important. This does not mean that damage shields will get nerfed, nor was there any word if nerfing shields because of PvP sorcerers. We do not know, what they planned with damage shields, but just assuming its a shield size nerf is wrong.
There also was nothing written about the overload bar of sorcs, but to change overload as ultimate in something more useful for the class rather than those bursty light attacks. Nobody said, that the third skill bar will be even touched.
Also there was nothing written about making magicka sorcerer less bursty, that comment you probably are referring to, was about skills, which provide burst damage and a stun together, not at all about bursty skills like in the sorcerers toolkit. Also the comment about general burst in PvP referred to ganking and burst combos from stealth. Additionally the representatives mentioned, that skills with a cast time need improvements, it is written there too.

It does mean that the shields will be nerfed. Come on, you know this already. This is how ZOS works when they 'look into it'

So screwing over a very prominent play style in PvP is their plan? I do not think so. Making magsorcs, magblades, some magdens and magdks harder to play surely is not on their list.