Near immortal tanks - introduced update 19

Dracane · August 2018

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dracane wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Also the new Cyrodiil-set is pretty dope. 10k heal every 5s from simply blocking once every 5s? Leggo'

That + another tanky set and I can imagine you could tank everything for quite a while. This is the main reason why I hate cp-campaign. It just let's people get insanely tanky for no reason, so the real culprit is the cp-system

Come on dear. You know exactly, how tanky you all are even in no CP. I must only think of yesterday. Immortal and still instakilling everything. The CP system can hardly be blamed at this point.

Not exactly sure what you're referring to, but if you're referring to the BG where we ended up in a team: The only reason I could survive was Sanct's DK. The constant stacked HoTs is what made us survive in there. When I can fight along Sanct, who's running healing ward / rapid reg, saves me more times than I can count. Similar for him with HtD and my rapid reg. (Since they stack, obviously). And that BG we were fighting mainly tanky potatoes(If you recall, max score was like 370 or so, with the other teams having ~90 max. because they were just tanks). So there was never any real damage threat anyway.

In CP, running what I run, I can easily tank 4 people. There's no way I can do that in no-cp. The CP just enables everything by such an insane amount.

CP makes the tanks immortal. No-cp still has tanks, but they can eventually be worn down. Which isn't the case for cp.

I see. Needless to say, you've been a great duo and we both were glad to have some tanky people with us for a change who know how to play. When I saw that you were matched with us, I told my bf "Okay chill, it's an easy win."

TheInfernalRage · August 2018

First, that tank is very good.

Second, 20 or so people were made to look like fools by a tank.

Third, learn from that experience, grow up and move on.

Because this, sounds like 20 people made a mistake of attacking a troll tank, which primary purpose is to distract them and s/he did.

Universe · August 2018

imredneckson wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

Hello,
Since update 19 I have noticed many occasions in which player tanks in PVP got to near immortal state(PC EU Vivec).
20+ players were not able to kill a tank, several times even when using siege against him.
The tank just blocked all damage and used the psijic skill line ability meditate while taking damage.
It wasn't just one occasion/one player, there were several players exploiting it.

I believe there is a broken set and/or abilities that should be fixed.
Hist bark used to give 100% dodge chance until ZOS fixed it, maybe now there is other set which provide great boost to tanks.
If you noticed it too, please report the exploiters to ZOS and if you know what sets and/or broken abilities they were using, report it too.
No player should be able to hold off 20+ players forever, something is clearly broken.

So what you're saying is it can't be that they know their class very well or that they are a skilled player they must be an exploiter. These guys are skilled players that can tank zergs and best part is THEY ARE NOT EXPLOITERS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=icC5fByfrb8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GV0Y8ITlsWo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eH_NZjYE5as

Those videos are old and unrelated to the issue.
It is a bit shame that instead of trying to find the reason for the issue, you choose to stray from the topic.

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Why are you even trying to kill the tank, he can't kill you, so just leave em and move on.

This is not the point.
20-30 players should be able to kill their target, especially when even siege is being used against the tank.
There is the matter of game balance.
Also, the tank can provide buffs to his group and sometimes debuffs to enemies.

If you can't you ain't a good tank

I understand you love trolling, have this and be on your merry way:

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Gotta love this community, rather than actually take the time to learn the game you would rather report someone for exploiting. I wish we could report the reporters!

I wish the community would report the different exploits they find in-game instead of abusing everything and then covering up everything/saying there are no exploits.
But then it will be a perfect world

imredneckson · August 2018

Universe wrote: »

show previous quotes

imredneckson wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Hello,
Since update 19 I have noticed many occasions in which player tanks in PVP got to near immortal state(PC EU Vivec).
20+ players were not able to kill a tank, several times even when using siege against him.
The tank just blocked all damage and used the psijic skill line ability meditate while taking damage.
It wasn't just one occasion/one player, there were several players exploiting it.

I believe there is a broken set and/or abilities that should be fixed.
Hist bark used to give 100% dodge chance until ZOS fixed it, maybe now there is other set which provide great boost to tanks.
If you noticed it too, please report the exploiters to ZOS and if you know what sets and/or broken abilities they were using, report it too.
No player should be able to hold off 20+ players forever, something is clearly broken.

So what you're saying is it can't be that they know their class very well or that they are a skilled player they must be an exploiter. These guys are skilled players that can tank zergs and best part is THEY ARE NOT EXPLOITERS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=icC5fByfrb8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GV0Y8ITlsWo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eH_NZjYE5as

Those videos are old and unrelated to the issue.
It is a bit shame that instead of trying to find the reason for the issue, you choose to stray from the topic.

show previous quotes

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Why are you even trying to kill the tank, he can't kill you, so just leave em and move on.

This is not the point.
20-30 players should be able to kill their target, especially when even siege is being used against the tank.
There is the matter of game balance.
Also, the tank can provide buffs to his group and sometimes debuffs to enemies.

If you can't you ain't a good tank

I understand you love trolling, have this and be on your merry way:

show previous quotes

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Gotta love this community, rather than actually take the time to learn the game you would rather report someone for exploiting. I wish we could report the reporters!

I wish the community would report the different exploits they find in-game instead of abusing everything and then covering up everything/saying there are no exploits.
But then it will be a perfect world

I am staying on topic. You made a thread about a player tanking and how you believe that they are exploiting. Here is one of your quotes

"I believe there is a broken set and/or abilities that should be fixed.
Hist bark used to give 100% dodge chance until ZOS fixed it, maybe now there is other set which provide great boost to tanks.
If you noticed it too, please report the exploiters to ZOS and if you know what sets and/or broken abilities they were using, report it too.
No player should be able to hold off 20+ players forever, something is clearly broken"

Also the videos that are "old" are on topic since they are videos of skilled players who are not exploiting tanking 20+ players and surviving. Tanks being able to hold off players has been around for years it didn't just start.

Sanctum74 · August 2018

Learning the game mechanics and being a good tank is not an exploit.

I too would love a perfect world, but you're not going to get that by wrongly reporting people for exploiting. I agree that true legitimate exploits should be dealt with a suspension, but I also think that anyone who encourages people to wrongly report people should also have their account suspended.

There is always going to be cheese in this game, unfortunately that's their tactic to sell dlc's so it's best to accept it or move on.

imredneckson · August 2018

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Learning the game mechanics and being a good tank is not an exploit.

I too would love a perfect world, but you're not going to get that by wrongly reporting people for exploiting. I agree that true legitimate exploits should be dealt with a suspension, but I also think that anyone who encourages people to wrongly report people should also have their account suspended.

There is always going to be cheese in this game, unfortunately that's their tactic to sell dlc's so it's best to accept it or move on.

^This

Kadoin · August 2018

Dracane wrote: »

All wrong. These are nightblades with 70k health and the new cloak morph that you are seeing and yes, they cannot be killed by any means with the abilities they have at hand.

True, I don't think the dev team understands just how powerful that NB heal really is. I called it months ago, and it looks like people eventually noticed as expected. Combined with Absorb Magic and CP into healing done + received, as long as someone hitting you with magic you can be practically immortal. It's not just on NB.

Absorb Magic should have been looked at since the start of the CP system, but I bet this comment will draw the ire of many "pros" crutching on it. I could swear that absorb magic still works even on reflected damage (bug), making it a free heal when you have shield ult up and there is one person that doesn't understand how it works.

Woops, ran my mouth again on the forums!

RaddlemanNumber7 · August 2018

It's clear that something has changed which has allowed these trolls to come out from behind their tree. I don't think this is a good thing.

Bakkagami · August 2018

those tanks don't even group support, they sacrifice everything to spec into max sustain. When your entire bar is healing/healing buffs of course you aren't going to die to pugs spamming radiant at 100% and light attacking. "Balance" isn't being able to kill everyone. It's being forced to sacrifice one thing to gain another, such as damage vs sustain. tankiness vs damage, healing vs sustain etc. Just because some guy can spec to full tankiness with nothing else doesn't mean it's a balance issue. It's an IQ issue for the 20 people wailing on what amounts to a moving target dummy.

Malamar1229 · August 2018

I bet he hit like a truck too...

RaddlemanNumber7 · August 2018

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I bet he hit like a truck too...

They didn't kill anyone that I saw. Seemed satisfied to be getting everyone's attention.

DuskMarine · August 2018

Universe wrote: »

Hello,
Since update 19 I have noticed many occasions in which player tanks in PVP got to near immortal state(PC EU Vivec).
20+ players were not able to kill a tank, several times even when using siege against him.
The tank just blocked all damage and used the psijic skill line ability meditate while taking damage.
The players did interrupt the meditate.
While meditate is powerful this is not the main issue and something(set/passive ability/other) is bugged/broken.
It wasn't just one occasion/one player, there were several players exploiting it.

I believe there is a broken set and/or abilities that should be fixed.
Hist bark used to give 100% dodge chance until ZOS fixed it, maybe now there is other set which provide great boost to tanks.
If you noticed it too, please report the exploiters to ZOS and if you know what sets and/or broken abilities they were using, report it too.
No player should be able to hold off 20+ players forever, something is clearly broken.

if their near immortal your doing it wrong. use cost increase poisons and tons of aoe and their done for. if you slam them without debuffing them your not going to kill them you have to debuff them. so really you just fought that tank wrong 100%. and histbark only works if hes blocking aoe his stamina down(since aoes are undodgeable). you cant be brainless in pvp you have to think and prepare.

imredneckson · August 2018

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I bet he hit like a truck too...

They didn't kill anyone that I saw. Seemed satisfied to be getting everyone's attention.

That's pretty much it. Tanks love to get a ton of players to attack them and then its just a game to see who lasts longer the tanks HP or the enemy's want to kill them. If the players leave the tank, tank wins. If the tank dies then he just lasted a long time against overwhelming odds and wasted the time of the enemies that were fighting them. This can be used to occupy enemies while a keep is under attack and give the keep enough time to get some back up. Even just one player distracting enemies at a resources can give their faction enough time to attack a keep and take it before they kill the tank. Tanks can be useful and are fun to play.

Qbiken · August 2018

Asmael wrote: »

Befoul is bugged and not working, defile has been nerfed, it goes a long into making quite a few builds viable again. This goes to show that they were massively overtuned and has me wish Befoul never gets fixed.

As for 20 players being unable to kill a single person, it says more about the 20 players than the solo one. I have not seen a single tank survive the focused fire of more than 3 actually good players.

Last time I saw "immortal tanks" was when One Tamriel was released, and they were a thing until after Homestead patch. The majority of these tanks abused a few sets that had some serious bugs that made them very powerful. Once these sets where fixed, the immortal tanks disappeared.

Sets like Barskin and 7th Legion were the main culprits behind the "immortal tank" meta. Both of these sets didn´t have a cooldown which made them extremely potent as tank sets.

So yes I´m always suspicious whenever I see videos of people facetanking 20 people without loosing any stamina or barely having their HP bar moved at all.

Jaraal · August 2018

Guppet wrote: »

show previous quotes

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Tanks are OP in pvp.

My stam nb with spriggans and bone pirate has been unable to kill tanks for months. Last night i fought a tank for almost 10 minutes, throwing everything I could. The most I could do was take him to 10%, at which time he pops a heal and the cycle repeats itself. I walked away bored.

You do realise you survived for 10 mins also, so he couldn’t kill you either. If you gear for max survival, you kill nothing. The enemy are thick if they beat on you.

Exactly! That's why you group your unkillable tank with a couple of bombblades, who stealth in on cue and nuke those pesky attackers!

Jaraal · August 2018

Dracane wrote: »

All wrong. These are nightblades with 70k health and the new cloak morph that you are seeing and yes, they cannot be killed by any means with the abilities they have at hand.

Dark Cloak for 31% of max HP stamina heal, Spiked Bone Shield for 32% of max HP DS which returns damage to the attackers (and combined with hardening enchant on an infused weapon makes your Infernal Guardian set aoe nuke attackers nonstop), Resolving Vigor, and then hit your werwolf ulti for access to a 70% of max HP magicka heal and six target Fear. High HP Nightblades should never die.... ever.

DuskMarine · August 2018

Jaraal wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dracane wrote: »

All wrong. These are nightblades with 70k health and the new cloak morph that you are seeing and yes, they cannot be killed by any means with the abilities they have at hand.

Dark Cloak for 31% of max HP stamina heal, Spiked Bone Shield for 32% of max HP DS which returns damage to the attackers (and combined with hardening enchant on an infused weapon makes your Infernal Guardian set aoe nuke attackers nonstop), Resolving Vigor, and then hit your werwolf ulti for access to a 70% of max HP magicka heal and six target Fear. High HP Nightblades should never die.... ever.

long as your a dk and you lock a nightblade down they stand zero chance against you.

cinnir · August 2018

lol

Jaraal · August 2018

DuskMarine wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jaraal wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

All wrong. These are nightblades with 70k health and the new cloak morph that you are seeing and yes, they cannot be killed by any means with the abilities they have at hand.

Dark Cloak for 31% of max HP stamina heal, Spiked Bone Shield for 32% of max HP DS which returns damage to the attackers (and combined with hardening enchant on an infused weapon makes your Infernal Guardian set aoe nuke attackers nonstop), Resolving Vigor, and then hit your werwolf ulti for access to a 70% of max HP magicka heal and six target Fear. High HP Nightblades should never die.... ever.

long as your a dk and you lock a nightblade down they stand zero chance against you.

But the premise of the thread is not NB beating DK, it's about unkillable tanks. Any build that sacrifices damage for HP won't win many fights.

DuskMarine · August 2018

Jaraal wrote: »

show previous quotes

DuskMarine wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

All wrong. These are nightblades with 70k health and the new cloak morph that you are seeing and yes, they cannot be killed by any means with the abilities they have at hand.

Dark Cloak for 31% of max HP stamina heal, Spiked Bone Shield for 32% of max HP DS which returns damage to the attackers (and combined with hardening enchant on an infused weapon makes your Infernal Guardian set aoe nuke attackers nonstop), Resolving Vigor, and then hit your werwolf ulti for access to a 70% of max HP magicka heal and six target Fear. High HP Nightblades should never die.... ever.

long as your a dk and you lock a nightblade down they stand zero chance against you.

But the premise of the thread is not NB beating DK, it's about unkillable tanks. Any build that sacrifices damage for HP won't win many fights.

theres no such thing as unbeatable in this game when it comes to tank especially now. cost increase poisons and the fact that aoes are undodgeable. 20 people could chew to pieaces a tanks stamina or magicka in seconds.

Heresyall · August 2018

Hello Universe

Universe · August 2018

Dracane wrote: »

show previous quotes

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Why are you even trying to kill the tank, he can't kill you, so just leave em and move on.

You are not getting the point.
Enter Cyrodiil 1 single time and watch your allied forces movements. They will ALWAYS focus on what they see. if there is an enemy, they will chase them and try to kill them forever. This way, those tanks can be the greatest weapon on the battlefield, as they can deny all reinforcements to a keep and even win every siege fight to their alliance.

Tanks are, the strongest role in ESO and this is not only proven by this scenario, but also in any battleground objective. The art is, that in order to win, you must not even kill your enemies yourself.

The amount of tankiness that can be achieve in this game has been completely over the top since its release and it's getting worse and worse every patch. And these are just the full turtle tanks.
Any Stamina build can be almost immortal, while still one shotting you.

Indeed.
Engaging and actually killing a tank in Cyrodiil waste a lot of time so the tank greatly benefits it's alliance(wasted the time of enemies, while they could have done something else).
When a tank achieves near immortal status, i.e 20-30(sometimes even 40-2 large groups) players hitting him for several minutes without killing him, something is clearly wrong.
Last patch - Update 19 even made it much worse.
@ZOS_Wrobel Please look into it and make the proper adjustments

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

Universe wrote: »

Hello,
Since update 19 I have noticed many occasions in which player tanks in PVP got to near immortal state(PC EU Vivec).
20+ players were not able to kill a tank, several times even when using siege against him.
The tank just blocked all damage and used the psijic skill line ability meditate while taking damage.
The players did interrupt the meditate.
While meditate is powerful this is not the main issue and something(set/passive ability/other) is bugged/broken.
It wasn't just one occasion/one player, there were several players exploiting it.

I believe there is a broken set and/or abilities that should be fixed.
Hist bark used to give 100% dodge chance until ZOS fixed it, maybe now there is other set which provide great boost to tanks.
If you noticed it too, please report the exploiters to ZOS and if you know what sets and/or broken abilities they were using, report it too.
No player should be able to hold off 20+ players forever, something is clearly broken.

question...

why use the term "broken" when it best to say "over powered"? I started to see that since playing Overwatch when people think it is over powered they use the term broken.

to me broken would indicate not usable, or under powered.

Universe · August 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

Hello,
Since update 19 I have noticed many occasions in which player tanks in PVP got to near immortal state(PC EU Vivec).
20+ players were not able to kill a tank, several times even when using siege against him.
The tank just blocked all damage and used the psijic skill line ability meditate while taking damage.
The players did interrupt the meditate.
While meditate is powerful this is not the main issue and something(set/passive ability/other) is bugged/broken.
It wasn't just one occasion/one player, there were several players exploiting it.

I believe there is a broken set and/or abilities that should be fixed.
Hist bark used to give 100% dodge chance until ZOS fixed it, maybe now there is other set which provide great boost to tanks.
If you noticed it too, please report the exploiters to ZOS and if you know what sets and/or broken abilities they were using, report it too.
No player should be able to hold off 20+ players forever, something is clearly broken.

question...

why use the term "broken" when it best to say "over powered"? I started to see that since playing Overwatch when people think it is over powered they use the term broken.

to me broken would indicate not usable, or under powered.

I meant broken as for not working as intended by the developers.
It can be called OP, over powered too.

ZOS_GregoryV · August 2018

Greetings all,

Just a friendly reminder that we should keep all posts civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

meatboll · August 2018

i love perma tanks,they are good ulti regen and resource regen meatbag, since tank do nothing in cyrodiil.

SilverWF · August 2018

There is a set that reduces incoming damage by 15% while you are casting or channelling - Light of Cyrodiil.
Add here Psijic passive, that reduces inc. damage by 30% while casting or channeling Psijic skills
So this is a rough 45% incoming damage reduction while meditating, not even counting armor, resists or other damage reduction passives (like Nord's 6% racial or Psijic ult 8% while slotted)

From other side, WHAT this troll-tank can do against you? Just ignore him

HankTwo · August 2018

Lemme guess: 20 people but not a single sorc used negate? Anyway, there is not a single build out there that can survive 20 players who are at least decent. Not even close.

PS: there are unblockable CCs available to 3 out of the 5 classes. Use them against PvP tanks.

ak_pvp · August 2018

It's just a stack health nb build. New cloak, drain meditate, argonian, etc etc

The idea that 20/30 people deserve to kill someone is entitled and zergish. Just ignore as they aren't doing any damage.

HankTwo · August 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

It's just a stack health nb build. New cloak, drain meditate, argonian, etc etc

The idea that 20/30 people deserve to kill someone is entitled and zergish. Just ignore as they aren't doing any damage.

I disagree, 20 people should be able to kill anyone who is alone as long as they know how to play their classes well.