Near immortal tanks - introduced update 19

Universe

DuskMarine wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

forward momentum + speed potion and easy kite around a tower

I have seen quite a few use those.
Not really regarding this issue, but yes they are tanky

tanks easy counter- cost increase poison stack aoes forces roll dodge once stamina depletes tank dies. no stamina=no life. to easy to kill tanks anymore.

I was joking about tower fast runners
The real issue is on the OP post, tower roll dodgers with speed potion rejoice, you're perfectly fine
Yes cost increase poison and stack aoes is a valid tactic, I know that

Shantu

HA! And I got laughed at and criticized for lousy pvp skills when me and 3 others couldn't take this guy down (at least it sounds like the same guy). These builds are silly. If they just stand there, buff up, and don't fight back, I just ignore them. They are of absolutely no threat other than soaking up your attention while you could be doing some real damage.

Shadowmaster

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Also the videos that are "old" are on topic since they are videos of skilled players who are not exploiting tanking 20+ players and surviving.

This shouldnt be happening with the current changes to defile/vuln. In theory.

Its probably just that the player can get a huge heal (maybe ww?) every few seconds.

LadyLavina

In this thread:

"REEEEEEEE We're angry that our meta builds aren't working and that we can't kill something that doesn't often harm anybody else or really inhibit us in any way. LETS DESTROY THEIR WAY OF LIFE."

It's like your neighbor building a fence you can't traverse through or see over so you decide to petition the city to demolish their house.

Also @Sanctum74 sorry bud, not an exploit. Your salt and irrational rage is showing.

Jaraal

You know, I've never played a DK or a sword and board build, but knowing how much damage my lowly 2h heavy NB can take and still survive has got me wanting to create one of these unkillable tanks. Lemme go steal some Elder Scrolls and crawl back to base and win the war for my Queen!


Thanks for the inspiration, OP! See you in Cyro!

Universe

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Also the videos that are "old" are on topic since they are videos of skilled players who are not exploiting tanking 20+ players and surviving.

This shouldnt be happening with the current changes to defile/vuln. In theory.

Its probably just that the player can get a huge heal (maybe ww?) every few seconds.

Indeed.
Old videos several months to years ago provide no actual information on the current game balance since much has changed since then.

As for the tank surviving 20+ players videos I wouldn't call that 100% not exploiting since there is a high chance that during such a feat the player exploited a bugged set and/or abilities back then, such as hist bark etc.
Knowingly using a set/ability which give unfair advantage is exploiting(unintended by the developers).
Same thing can be said on other past exploits which got fixed, like the Salvation set and it's unintended 100K weapon damage if anyone remember.
The talented tanks should know that exploiting is not allowed, no matter if the player is DD/Healer/Tank.

HankTwo

@Universe

Maybe I'm blind, but I couldn't find it anywhere in this thread: can you tell us what class the tank was and which skills he did use (apart from meditate)? Also, did he wear any obvious sets? That would be quite helpful. About the group and yourself: which counters did you try out? Did some people use unblockable CCs, negates, potl/purifying light, stuff like that?

I'm not saying you're lying, since there is always the possibility of a new exploit. But without any evidence, I can't just give you the benefit of the doubt when my own experience tells me otherwise.

At last, did you record a video or not? If yes just create a YouTube video and send me a personal message what to search for, so I can check it out.

Universe

HankTwo wrote: »

@Universe

Maybe I'm blind, but I couldn't find it anywhere in this thread: can you tell us what class the tank was and which skills he used? Also, did he use any obvious sets? That would be quite helpful. About the group and yourself: which counters did you try out? Did some people use unblockable CCs, negates, potl/purifying light, stuff like that?

I'm not saying you're lying, since there is always the possibility of a new exploit. But without any evidence, I can't just give you the benefit of the doubt when my own experience tells me otherwise.

At last, did you record a video or not? If yes just create a YouTube video and send me a personal message what to search for, so I can check it out.

I believe the real issue was with the Nightblades.
The tanks used meditate quite often and cloak right before it.
It seems that if they use the cloak right before the meditate it makes the ability far more powerful.
Also, they used forward momentum.
People did use negate, CC, defile, siege, cost poison, interrupts etc.
As for video, I didn't record any video, though I did suggest to others to do so.
I know it is hard to believe such tanks exist, but if you would go to PC EU Vivec and perhaps other campaigns, many may say they noticed the same issue.

Sanctum74

LadyLavina wrote: »

In this thread:

"REEEEEEEE We're angry that our meta builds aren't working and that we can't kill something that doesn't often harm anybody else or really inhibit us in any way. LETS DESTROY THEIR WAY OF LIFE."

It's like your neighbor building a fence you can't traverse through or see over so you decide to petition the city to demolish their house.

Also @Sanctum74 sorry bud, not an exploit. Your salt and irrational rage is showing.

Never said it was an exploit, salt and irrational rage? I've been defending the tanks. What thread have you been reading

TequilaFire

jabrone77 wrote: »

My favorite pvp tank(ps4 NA)...using a resto staff as well.....

https://youtu.be/rKrnyy_ZaGI

Cal doesn't like Dark Flare with 64 in befoul and Purifying Light though.
Works every time.

Waffennacht

Ok here is how this can go:

He's cheating and there's nothing we can do about it - discussion over

He's not cheating and there's legitimate reasons for his bad ass Ness

Either way, about as far as we can go on this conversation without more intel

Universe

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ok here is how this can go:

He's cheating and there's nothing we can do about it - discussion over

He's not cheating and there's legitimate reasons for his bad ass Ness

Either way, about as far as we can go on this conversation without more intel

Investigating such an exploit is not easy, besides the fact it's mostly Nightblades, I did notice some Warden/Dragonknight super tanks.
So it may be a broken/OP set which grants huge bonus to healing and it may be both the cloak+meditate+that broken set.
The purpose of the discussion wasn't to reveal the exploit/s but to make the community aware of the issue and in the process gather clues and eventually report everything to ZOS.
I definitely don't want to advertise an exploit.

If you find an exploit regarding this issue, please report to ZOS.

HankTwo

Universe wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

@Universe

Maybe I'm blind, but I couldn't find it anywhere in this thread: can you tell us what class the tank was and which skills he used? Also, did he use any obvious sets? That would be quite helpful. About the group and yourself: which counters did you try out? Did some people use unblockable CCs, negates, potl/purifying light, stuff like that?

I'm not saying you're lying, since there is always the possibility of a new exploit. But without any evidence, I can't just give you the benefit of the doubt when my own experience tells me otherwise.

At last, did you record a video or not? If yes just create a YouTube video and send me a personal message what to search for, so I can check it out.

I believe the real issue was with the Nightblades.
The tanks used meditate quite often and cloak right before it.
It seems that if they use the cloak right before the meditate it makes the ability far more powerful.
Also, they used forward momentum.
People did use negate, CC, defile, siege, cost poison, interrupts etc.
As for video, I didn't record any video, though I did suggest to others to do so.
I know it is hard to believe such tanks exist, but if you would go to PC EU Vivec and perhaps other campaigns, many may say they noticed the same issue.

Now you talk about nightblades, tanks, … --> plural. Additionally, your first sentence gives me the impression that there were also other classes around (of the enemy faction). If there was more than one tank and they had additional group support, why did you focus on the tanks?

Universe

HankTwo wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

@Universe

Maybe I'm blind, but I couldn't find it anywhere in this thread: can you tell us what class the tank was and which skills he used? Also, did he use any obvious sets? That would be quite helpful. About the group and yourself: which counters did you try out? Did some people use unblockable CCs, negates, potl/purifying light, stuff like that?

I'm not saying you're lying, since there is always the possibility of a new exploit. But without any evidence, I can't just give you the benefit of the doubt when my own experience tells me otherwise.

At last, did you record a video or not? If yes just create a YouTube video and send me a personal message what to search for, so I can check it out.

I believe the real issue was with the Nightblades.
The tanks used meditate quite often and cloak right before it.
It seems that if they use the cloak right before the meditate it makes the ability far more powerful.
Also, they used forward momentum.
People did use negate, CC, defile, siege, cost poison, interrupts etc.
As for video, I didn't record any video, though I did suggest to others to do so.
I know it is hard to believe such tanks exist, but if you would go to PC EU Vivec and perhaps other campaigns, many may say they noticed the same issue.

Now you talk about nightblades, tanks, … --> plural. Additionally, your first sentence gives me the impression that there were also other classes around (of the enemy faction). If there was more than one tank and they had additional group support, why did you focus on the tanks?

I meant for Nightblades in plural since there were more than 1 Nightblade player tank which exploited this issue.
If there are about 40 players(sometimes even more), about 20 players went after each Nightblade/other class(see below).
There were also Warden and Dragonknight who exploited, but those were different fights.
Cyrodiil is huge and different fights are occurring, I encountered different tanks on different occasions and 1 tank holding off entire group happened more than once.
No additional group support - the issue of the discussion is about the now more common fight of 1 tank holding off large group of players/surviving for a long time.
If there was group support, I wouldn't have opened this discussion since tanks with group support are essentially tougher.

Waffennacht

Sure it's not just the new heal is that good?

ValerieKyrie

Universe wrote: »

I meant for Nightblades in plural since there were more than 1 Nightblade player tank which exploited this issue.

Why does everyone hate on Nightblades. Can't we ever catch a break? #NightbladeLivesMatter

Kel

TequilaFire wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

My favorite pvp tank(ps4 NA)...using a resto staff as well.....

https://youtu.be/rKrnyy_ZaGI

Cal doesn't like Dark Flare with 64 in befoul and Purifying Light though.
Works every time.

Saw him get blown up a few times when sloads first came out too.
Still, entertaining, (and sad since I mostly play red..) to see so many always focus on him while the rest of the blues are taking keeps because they just cannot leave him alone.
It's amazing how well that strategy works..

umagon

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sure it's not just the new heal is that good?

The new nightblade heal has little to do with it. The counter to the healing/health regen is what got drastically reduced. On the build I use I make so players are always doing normal damage. I pushed the crit reduction high. I am not going into the value and why because it’s lengthily. But there is a point where in pvp the only way to get past the crit reduction is to make a build that will get most players killed because it is a pve build. There is kind of two ways of doing this but again it’s lengthily one is high crit resistance or high block up time.

Because 99% of players will be doing normal damage all the burst damage can be thrown out the window so to speak. Once that is done all the dps calculations for just about every popular build are easy to do. Then just calculate how much damage reduction is need to put the incoming damage lower than the self healing rate. There is a point where it’s better to push more healing if increases skill or ultimate output values.

Defile while yes it was over preforming against builds that had little or no healing, the devs drastically reduced the uptime. People seem to not understand how much defile got nerfed, I called these situations in the pts forms, along with other people. And the devs did it anyway; so here we are.

umagon wrote: »

When the patch is deployed on live, players will be complaining about healers, tanks, and organized groups of players who will almost never die.

Jameliel

People try beating on Dks, and the DK keeps healing with breath. If they are tanking so heavily, they aren't doing much damage. Bleed them and move off or better yet ignore them. There are tradeoffs for everything. Well played stamwardens are the toughest I've fought lately. Tanky, huge burst damage, huge heals....very annoying.

Jaraal

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sure it's not just the new heal is that good?

Dark Cloak is not really OP, it's a 32% of max HP HoT that takes 3 seconds (3.5 seconds with Dark Veil passive). That's not much better than Resolving Vigor if you're running 25k health. But, being able to cast both (from different resource pools) is good for NB survivability.

Valencer

It's literally just the new Dark Cloak HoT + high max health, with stacked healing bonuses from multiple sources (CP, argonian, etc).
Dark Cloak into Meditate gives you Minor + Major Protection and if you have CC immunity it's uninterruptable because brilliant game developers. Stack that with high resistances in general to minimize incoming burst damage.

Why you keep suggesting theyre exploiting is beyond me. Seems to be the default response to anything in this game's community

ak_pvp

LegacyDM wrote: »

These types of tanks are not the problem. They can't fight back. The cancer lies with the players that are both a tank and a dps. They soak up rediculous amounts of damage or avoid damage through block casting, shield stacking, smart heals, or dodge rolling and then turn around and one shot you with a burst combo. I.e., Sorcs, dragon Knights, stam wardens, stam blades, stam Sorcs, and magplars. That's why pvp is broke in this game. There's no such thing as traditional class roles. When a traditional glass cannon can build for both tankiess and dps its whacked. And people complain about proc sets. However, it's the proc sets that enable you to actually kill these cancer builds.

Waaah I want to kill everyone and they shouldn't defend.

Same with OP, tanks already have next to no damage unless they are a stamden, so ignore or L2P. I bet you think its fine to kite and kill/distract a lot of people yes, so why not tank and distract but not kill a lot of people?

Players like you who think they deserve to kill people who already sacrifice a lot are why sets like sloads exist. It'd be different if they were healing an entire zerg, or running in sload trains because then they begin to overreach and inhibit gameplay by being both unkillable and offering too much support or offense a la healbot/sload zerg circle jerks) but its a few small group or solo players who actually have to think to stay alive and you can't zerg them down, so you complain or cry exploits.

themaddaedra

Dextail wrote: »

Anyone got a build for one of these inmortal tanks. I want to get some hate whispers while doing nothing but blocking. Seems less work than actually killing people

@Dextail WTS 10/10 templar toxic/cancerous/triggering/immortal tank build

Bergzorn

Valencer wrote: »

Meditate gives you [...] Major Protection and if you have CC immunity it's uninterruptable because brilliant game developers

A nice synergy between skill and stupidity. I was concerned about it when I read the Summerset PTS patch notes, but only very few players seemed to utilize this successfully so far. Maybe the outcome wasn't extreme enough before Wolfhunter.

ak_pvp

themaddaedra wrote: »

Dextail wrote: »

Anyone got a build for one of these inmortal tanks. I want to get some hate whispers while doing nothing but blocking. Seems less work than actually killing people

@Dextail WTS 10/10 templar toxic/cancerous/triggering/immortal tank build

Reactive, bloodspawn/pirate, barkskin/ironblood/riposte. If using meditate don't use either of the protection sets.

Front bar s/b: HTD, meditate, entropy, absorb magicka, ritual, ULT: S/B ult.
Back bar ice: Ele drain, structured entropy, absorb magicka, rune, flex (maybe vamp drain/radiant ward/mist) ULT: Temporal guard

You can go for the protection rune for more def front bar and a different ult back bar, though its better to use the the mag one since regen is nice then have temporal guard back bar to make up for the weaker mitigation of ice staff. Sun shield is costly but helps against defile/bleed potatoes.

Alcast

Surprised it took so long

RexyCat

Jaraal wrote: »

I don't really see the problem. One guy standing around absorbing damage isn't going to be taking resources or keeps, or killing enemy players. There's no "advantage" here, and the only exploit is exploiting the stubbornness of a bunch of players who would be better serving their alliance by moving on to something that earns AP.

Can't a tank use siege weapon to do damage (replacing its own lack for it)? Destroying tents and doing other stuff that you don't need to be able to do your own damage as long as you can survive?

cheops

Universe wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Also the videos that are "old" are on topic since they are videos of skilled players who are not exploiting tanking 20+ players and surviving.

This shouldnt be happening with the current changes to defile/vuln. In theory.

Its probably just that the player can get a huge heal (maybe ww?) every few seconds.

Indeed.
Old videos several months to years ago provide no actual information on the current game balance since much has changed since then.

As for the tank surviving 20+ players videos I wouldn't call that 100% not exploiting since there is a high chance that during such a feat the player exploited a bugged set and/or abilities back then, such as hist bark etc.
Knowingly using a set/ability which give unfair advantage is exploiting(unintended by the developers).
Same thing can be said on other past exploits which got fixed, like the Salvation set and it's unintended 100K weapon damage if anyone remember.
The talented tanks should know that exploiting is not allowed, no matter if the player is DD/Healer/Tank.

How can using a known set with with known abilities be unfair and regarded as an exploit????

Bam_Bam

Just use them to build your ulti up (preferably with LA spam because they seem to enjoy it enormously...) then go fight someone else.

Seriously, don't waste your time on them. They can't do big damage, so just avoid them (it's easy).

Vivecc

Investigating such an exploit is not easy,

You should not call it exploit as you have no proof that it is actually an exploit