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Shuffle dodges rune cage
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Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
So your comparing a class skill to a weapon skill everyone can have? It’s still a generic skill that pigeon holes sorcs even further to all being the same build.
I thought the pigeon hole was runecage? Forgive me if I am wrong. I dont really understand you, you want a third stun? How many classes has two effective stuns available? Im not gonna follow this road anyway, as I feel as a sorc a runecage nerf was needed. HOWEVER the way it is handled by zos is pathetic. What should be a nerf is instead a buff to nightblaes. And NB's exclusively.
It's not just NBs that dodge... Everyone in medium dodges a LOT. If you don't, you die fairly quickly.
Dodge isn't even as good a defence as shields.
Let's see...one makes you immune to almost everything, the other makes you take full unmitigated damage (except it doesn't crit).
Yeah, shields are totally better than rolling.
Yeah they are and always have been and always will be. You can't make your shields cost 3x as much magicka within 5 seconds now, can you?
Besides there are tons of abilities that ignore dodge, dots ignore dodge, aoes, even some direct damage abilities. Dawnbreaker, Soul Assault, Meteor etc etc.
Shields literally absorb ALL damage except oblivion. And you complain? Gtho...
In reference to your edits, Shields absorb all damage, but you take a ton more and they're expensive as hell. About as expensive as roll dodge, but the "damage immunity" window is a lot shorter since shields have a life bar of their own.
As for abilities that ignore dodge, DoTs are pretty weak and stam builds have Momentum + Vigor 24/7 which is healing on-par with shielding but they get to keep their full resistances. So if you dodge with a DoT up, you'll be immune to everything else and just heal through the DoT. The ults can be problematic, sure, but block will fix what dodge cannot...and once again you'll just heal it back up. And no one really uses AoEs except ball groups.
Dodge + Momentum + Vigor + Block = amazing. Magicka builds don't really have the options of Block and Dodge because if they do either of those too much they won't have the stamina to break free from the CC of a burst combo, and Sorcs in particular do not have the healing to back up shields...they mainly have Healing Ward (which can be broken too!
)
Healing on par with shielding on medium? What kind of wonderland you live in? Ever had 2.5k master bleed ticks + injection + sload +other dots on you? You're completely twisting everything in some unreal and ridiculous ways. Vigor heals around 1.5k at best, provided defile isn't in the play. Rally/momentum passive healing is quite hilarious if u get defiled. Only the rally burst heal is okay, provided it lasted long enough to even have a good effect.
Oh yeah and sorcs got heals too. Burst heals even. We rely on overtime heals.
Also, your shields completely ignore crits too. And you can build around it entirely.Edited by Nyladreas on August 13, 2018 5:02PM4 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Olen_Mikko wrote: »OMG i love the salty tears of bad sorcs. Now you actually need to know even a little, how to play.
"Buuhuu, i can't cheeseburst people. I want my OP Rune Cage back!"
Nice signature there, buck-o
Least we can see who was and wasn't affected by this patch.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
GawdSB✭✭✭✭✭
Let me ask this, do they rely on them as much as Sorc does? Because if the burst is not locked into place via CC it's very easy to mitigate.
Plus, 3/5 classes had unblockable, undodgeable CCs to counter builds that dodge and block heavily...now 2. But that also means 2 still got to keep theirs.
And you have a skill in rune cage to do that. Let me ask you something, should a class Tha has the burst of a Sorc have a skill that always guarantees they will get that burst off. Where is the balance in that, but timed correctly you are still able to get that skill off and imo that requires skill and is fair.
You can’t compare it to other classes because not all classes get the same things. What would DKs be without fossilize, we don’t have an execute, we don’t have an ounce of mobility and for fossilize we have to be within a reasonable range, unlike Sorcs.
Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them. Though I will say the length for fear has been reduced, and in a way it’s not holding someone in a stationary position though it doesn’t really matter to NBs because ZOS doesn’t know balance when it comes to them.Edited by GawdSB on August 13, 2018 5:02PM2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Let me ask this, do they rely on them as much as Sorc does? Because if the burst is not locked into place via CC it's very easy to mitigate.
Plus, 3/5 classes had unblockable, undodgeable CCs to counter builds that dodge and block heavily...now 2. But that also means 2 still got to keep theirs.
And you have a skill in rune cage to do that. Let me ask you something, should a class Tha has the burst of a Sorc have a skill that always guarantees they will get that burst off. Where is the balance in that.
You can’t compare it to other classes because not all classes get the same things. What would DKs be without fossilize, we don’t have an execute, we don’t have an ounce of mobility and for fossilize we have to be within a reasonable range, unlike Sorcs.
Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them. Though I will say the length for fear has been reduced, and in a way it’s not holding someone in a stationary position though it doesn’t really matter to NBs because ZOS doesn’t know balance when it comes to them.
"Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them."
This summarizes perfectly the problem with the forums.
"I hate x so please nerf them"
Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Olen_Mikko wrote: »OMG i love the salty tears of bad sorcs. Now you actually need to know even a little, how to play.
"Buuhuu, i can't cheeseburst people. I want my OP Rune Cage back!"
Agreed. A good test was running immovable pots. 9/10 sorcs panic and scream and run like little girls dying in the most hilarious ways, cause their runecage suddenly doesn't work.Edited by Nyladreas on August 13, 2018 5:04PM3 -
GawdSB✭✭✭✭✭
Let me ask this, do they rely on them as much as Sorc does? Because if the burst is not locked into place via CC it's very easy to mitigate.
Plus, 3/5 classes had unblockable, undodgeable CCs to counter builds that dodge and block heavily...now 2. But that also means 2 still got to keep theirs.
And you have a skill in rune cage to do that. Let me ask you something, should a class Tha has the burst of a Sorc have a skill that always guarantees they will get that burst off. Where is the balance in that.
You can’t compare it to other classes because not all classes get the same things. What would DKs be without fossilize, we don’t have an execute, we don’t have an ounce of mobility and for fossilize we have to be within a reasonable range, unlike Sorcs.
Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them. Though I will say the length for fear has been reduced, and in a way it’s not holding someone in a stationary position though it doesn’t really matter to NBs because ZOS doesn’t know balance when it comes to them.
"Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them."
This summarizes perfectly the problem with the forums.
"I hate x so please nerf them"
Oh please. NBs have and always will be at top when it comes to PVP. They’re overpowered, and I hate them. Zos doesn’t have a clue what to do with them, I’m not making nerf threads daily about them but I’m just being honest.
You had no counter to my other points though.Edited by GawdSB on August 13, 2018 5:06PM2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
So your comparing a class skill to a weapon skill everyone can have? It’s still a generic skill that pigeon holes sorcs even further to all being the same build.
I thought the pigeon hole was runecage? Forgive me if I am wrong. I dont really understand you, you want a third stun? How many classes has two effective stuns available? Im not gonna follow this road anyway, as I feel as a sorc a runecage nerf was needed. HOWEVER the way it is handled by zos is pathetic. What should be a nerf is instead a buff to nightblaes. And NB's exclusively.
It's not just NBs that dodge... Everyone in medium dodges a LOT. If you don't, you die fairly quickly.
Dodge isn't even as good a defence as shields.
Let's see...one makes you immune to almost everything, the other makes you take full unmitigated damage (except it doesn't crit).
Yeah, shields are totally better than rolling.
Yeah they are and always have been and always will be. You can't make your shields cost 3x as much magicka within 5 seconds now, can you?
Besides there are tons of abilities that ignore dodge, dots ignore dodge, aoes, even some direct damage abilities. Dawnbreaker, Soul Assault, Meteor etc etc.
Shields literally absorb ALL damage except oblivion. And you complain? Gtho...
In reference to your edits, Shields absorb all damage, but you take a ton more and they're expensive as hell. About as expensive as roll dodge, but the "damage immunity" window is a lot shorter since shields have a life bar of their own.
As for abilities that ignore dodge, DoTs are pretty weak and stam builds have Momentum + Vigor 24/7 which is healing on-par with shielding but they get to keep their full resistances. So if you dodge with a DoT up, you'll be immune to everything else and just heal through the DoT. The ults can be problematic, sure, but block will fix what dodge cannot...and once again you'll just heal it back up. And no one really uses AoEs except ball groups.
Dodge + Momentum + Vigor + Block = amazing. Magicka builds don't really have the options of Block and Dodge because if they do either of those too much they won't have the stamina to break free from the CC of a burst combo, and Sorcs in particular do not have the healing to back up shields...they mainly have Healing Ward (which can be broken too! )
Healing on par with shielding on medium? What kind of wonderland you live in? Ever had 2.5k master bleed ticks + injection + sload +other dots on you? You're completely twisting everything in some unreal and ridiculous ways. Vigor heals around 1.5k at best, provided defile isn't in the play. Rally/momentum passive healing is quite hilarious if u get defiled. Only the rally burst heal is okay, provided it lasted long enough to even have a good effect.
Oh yeah and sorcs got heals too. Burst heals even. We rely on overtime heals.
Also, your shields completely ignore crits too. And you can build around it entirely.
You can build around anything entirely. Healing? Stack stam/weapon damage/weapon crit/magicka/spell damage/spell crit. Boom, built around healing...AND DAMAGE!
Sorcs rely on delayed burst heals that can be broken via burst damage. Momentum and Vigor cannot be removed. And Sorc healing can also be reduced by Defile.
You're not looking at everything together. Sorcs have shields + healing ward (shield + burst heal). Stam has Dodge + Block + Rally/Vigor. If you build for higher max stam, you get more of all of those too, just like max magicka for Sorcs.
Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Shadowmaster✭✭✭✭antihero727 wrote: »Great another nerf to sorc with no counter buff.
In fairness all last patch you had a skill that no one really had a counter to, and was pretty much insta-gib if it happened in BGs or 1vX.
0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
So your comparing a class skill to a weapon skill everyone can have? It’s still a generic skill that pigeon holes sorcs even further to all being the same build.
I thought the pigeon hole was runecage? Forgive me if I am wrong. I dont really understand you, you want a third stun? How many classes has two effective stuns available? Im not gonna follow this road anyway, as I feel as a sorc a runecage nerf was needed. HOWEVER the way it is handled by zos is pathetic. What should be a nerf is instead a buff to nightblaes. And NB's exclusively.
It's not just NBs that dodge... Everyone in medium dodges a LOT. If you don't, you die fairly quickly.
Dodge isn't even as good a defence as shields.
Let's see...one makes you immune to almost everything, the other makes you take full unmitigated damage (except it doesn't crit).
Yeah, shields are totally better than rolling.
Yeah they are and always have been and always will be. You can't make your shields cost 3x as much magicka within 5 seconds now, can you?
Besides there are tons of abilities that ignore dodge, dots ignore dodge, aoes, even some direct damage abilities. Dawnbreaker, Soul Assault, Meteor etc etc.
Shields literally absorb ALL damage except oblivion. And you complain? Gtho...
In reference to your edits, Shields absorb all damage, but you take a ton more and they're expensive as hell. About as expensive as roll dodge, but the "damage immunity" window is a lot shorter since shields have a life bar of their own.
As for abilities that ignore dodge, DoTs are pretty weak and stam builds have Momentum + Vigor 24/7 which is healing on-par with shielding but they get to keep their full resistances. So if you dodge with a DoT up, you'll be immune to everything else and just heal through the DoT. The ults can be problematic, sure, but block will fix what dodge cannot...and once again you'll just heal it back up. And no one really uses AoEs except ball groups.
Dodge + Momentum + Vigor + Block = amazing. Magicka builds don't really have the options of Block and Dodge because if they do either of those too much they won't have the stamina to break free from the CC of a burst combo, and Sorcs in particular do not have the healing to back up shields...they mainly have Healing Ward (which can be broken too! )
Healing on par with shielding on medium? What kind of wonderland you live in? Ever had 2.5k master bleed ticks + injection + sload +other dots on you? You're completely twisting everything in some unreal and ridiculous ways. Vigor heals around 1.5k at best, provided defile isn't in the play. Rally/momentum passive healing is quite hilarious if u get defiled. Only the rally burst heal is okay, provided it lasted long enough to even have a good effect.
Oh yeah and sorcs got heals too. Burst heals even. We rely on overtime heals.
Also, your shields completely ignore crits too. And you can build around it entirely.
You can build around anything entirely. Healing? Stack stam/weapon damage/weapon crit/magicka/spell damage/spell crit. Boom, built around healing...AND DAMAGE!
Sorcs rely on delayed burst heals that can be broken via burst damage. Momentum and Vigor cannot be removed. And Sorc healing can also be reduced by Defile.
You're not looking at everything together. Sorcs have shields + healing ward (shield + burst heal). Stam has Dodge + Block + Rally/Vigor. If you build for higher max stam, you get more of all of those too, just like max magicka for Sorcs.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about in the slightest and just theoretically assume. I'm done talking to you. Keep living in your wonderland.
Even as a full gank-mode stamblade with Troll King I can't heal as much as you can shield + heal + burst at the same time in your CC window.Edited by Nyladreas on August 13, 2018 5:10PM1 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Let me ask this, do they rely on them as much as Sorc does? Because if the burst is not locked into place via CC it's very easy to mitigate.
Plus, 3/5 classes had unblockable, undodgeable CCs to counter builds that dodge and block heavily...now 2. But that also means 2 still got to keep theirs.
And you have a skill in rune cage to do that. Let me ask you something, should a class Tha has the burst of a Sorc have a skill that always guarantees they will get that burst off. Where is the balance in that.
You can’t compare it to other classes because not all classes get the same things. What would DKs be without fossilize, we don’t have an execute, we don’t have an ounce of mobility and for fossilize we have to be within a reasonable range, unlike Sorcs.
Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them. Though I will say the length for fear has been reduced, and in a way it’s not holding someone in a stationary position though it doesn’t really matter to NBs because ZOS doesn’t know balance when it comes to them.
"Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them."
This summarizes perfectly the problem with the forums.
"I hate x so please nerf them"
Oh please. NBs have and always will be at top when it comes to PVP. They’re overpowered, and I hate them. Zos doesn’t have a clue what to do with them, I’m not making nerf threads daily about them but I’m just being honest.
actually nightblades arent op. against a dk their hard countered big time. sorcs you have wards you have no right to even say anything. templar your aoe healing god you can heal through their damage. wardens cant say anything about them as wardens are just terrible. and other nightblades can counter another nightblade so. nightblades are glass cannons if they cant kill you in a huge burst their caught with their pants down especially with a reveal ability or pot they stand no chance. they have one shot to kill you if they lose that chance their dead. so no their far from op. also the class that zos never nerfs nor can they think of how to nerf is sorcs.0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
So your comparing a class skill to a weapon skill everyone can have? It’s still a generic skill that pigeon holes sorcs even further to all being the same build.
I thought the pigeon hole was runecage? Forgive me if I am wrong. I dont really understand you, you want a third stun? How many classes has two effective stuns available? Im not gonna follow this road anyway, as I feel as a sorc a runecage nerf was needed. HOWEVER the way it is handled by zos is pathetic. What should be a nerf is instead a buff to nightblaes. And NB's exclusively.
It's not just NBs that dodge... Everyone in medium dodges a LOT. If you don't, you die fairly quickly.
Dodge isn't even as good a defence as shields.
Let's see...one makes you immune to almost everything, the other makes you take full unmitigated damage (except it doesn't crit).
Yeah, shields are totally better than rolling.
Yeah they are and always have been and always will be. You can't make your shields cost 3x as much magicka within 5 seconds now, can you?
Besides there are tons of abilities that ignore dodge, dots ignore dodge, aoes, even some direct damage abilities. Dawnbreaker, Soul Assault, Meteor etc etc.
Shields literally absorb ALL damage except oblivion. And you complain? Gtho...
In reference to your edits, Shields absorb all damage, but you take a ton more and they're expensive as hell. About as expensive as roll dodge, but the "damage immunity" window is a lot shorter since shields have a life bar of their own.
As for abilities that ignore dodge, DoTs are pretty weak and stam builds have Momentum + Vigor 24/7 which is healing on-par with shielding but they get to keep their full resistances. So if you dodge with a DoT up, you'll be immune to everything else and just heal through the DoT. The ults can be problematic, sure, but block will fix what dodge cannot...and once again you'll just heal it back up. And no one really uses AoEs except ball groups.
Dodge + Momentum + Vigor + Block = amazing. Magicka builds don't really have the options of Block and Dodge because if they do either of those too much they won't have the stamina to break free from the CC of a burst combo, and Sorcs in particular do not have the healing to back up shields...they mainly have Healing Ward (which can be broken too! )
Healing on par with shielding on medium? What kind of wonderland you live in? Ever had 2.5k master bleed ticks + injection + sload +other dots on you? You're completely twisting everything in some unreal and ridiculous ways. Vigor heals around 1.5k at best, provided defile isn't in the play. Rally/momentum passive healing is quite hilarious if u get defiled. Only the rally burst heal is okay, provided it lasted long enough to even have a good effect.
Oh yeah and sorcs got heals too. Burst heals even. We rely on overtime heals.
Also, your shields completely ignore crits too. And you can build around it entirely.
You can build around anything entirely. Healing? Stack stam/weapon damage/weapon crit/magicka/spell damage/spell crit. Boom, built around healing...AND DAMAGE!
Sorcs rely on delayed burst heals that can be broken via burst damage. Momentum and Vigor cannot be removed. And Sorc healing can also be reduced by Defile.
You're not looking at everything together. Sorcs have shields + healing ward (shield + burst heal). Stam has Dodge + Block + Rally/Vigor. If you build for higher max stam, you get more of all of those too, just like max magicka for Sorcs.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about in the slightest and just theoretically assume. I'm done talking to you. Keep living in your wonderland.
And you live in the denial that stamina classes are actually really good and believe Sorcs are the root of all evil.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »
Let me ask this, do they rely on them as much as Sorc does? Because if the burst is not locked into place via CC it's very easy to mitigate.
Plus, 3/5 classes had unblockable, undodgeable CCs to counter builds that dodge and block heavily...now 2. But that also means 2 still got to keep theirs.
And you have a skill in rune cage to do that. Let me ask you something, should a class Tha has the burst of a Sorc have a skill that always guarantees they will get that burst off. Where is the balance in that.
You can’t compare it to other classes because not all classes get the same things. What would DKs be without fossilize, we don’t have an execute, we don’t have an ounce of mobility and for fossilize we have to be within a reasonable range, unlike Sorcs.
Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them. Though I will say the length for fear has been reduced, and in a way it’s not holding someone in a stationary position though it doesn’t really matter to NBs because ZOS doesn’t know balance when it comes to them.
"Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them."
This summarizes perfectly the problem with the forums.
"I hate x so please nerf them"
Oh please. NBs have and always will be at top when it comes to PVP. They’re overpowered, and I hate them. Zos doesn’t have a clue what to do with them, I’m not making nerf threads daily about them but I’m just being honest.
actually nightblades arent op. against a dk their hard countered big time. sorcs you have wards you have no right to even say anything. templar your aoe healing god you can heal through their damage. wardens cant say anything about them as wardens are just terrible. and other nightblades can counter another nightblade so. nightblades are glass cannons if they cant kill you in a huge burst their caught with their pants down especially with a reveal ability or pot they stand no chance. they have one shot to kill you if they lose that chance their dead. so no their far from op. also the class that zos never nerfs nor can they think of how to nerf is sorcs.
Don't bother mate. All these haters obviously haven't even tried to play a stam NB before. I always laugh when people say stamblade is the ultimate cheese. Perhaps after sweat blood and tears for weeks of practice.
And then you still get F'd up if you make one bad move or get caught off guard.
You can have a cheese build on any class but it has it's weaknesses.
Sorc seemed to only have strengths until some recent nerfs. Well ok, except shield breaker and sload lol.
Forcing people to entirely switch their gear and playstyles to kill a one class and they still cry.Edited by Nyladreas on August 13, 2018 5:20PM3 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭DuskMarine wrote: »
Let me ask this, do they rely on them as much as Sorc does? Because if the burst is not locked into place via CC it's very easy to mitigate.
Plus, 3/5 classes had unblockable, undodgeable CCs to counter builds that dodge and block heavily...now 2. But that also means 2 still got to keep theirs.
And you have a skill in rune cage to do that. Let me ask you something, should a class Tha has the burst of a Sorc have a skill that always guarantees they will get that burst off. Where is the balance in that.
You can’t compare it to other classes because not all classes get the same things. What would DKs be without fossilize, we don’t have an execute, we don’t have an ounce of mobility and for fossilize we have to be within a reasonable range, unlike Sorcs.
Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them. Though I will say the length for fear has been reduced, and in a way it’s not holding someone in a stationary position though it doesn’t really matter to NBs because ZOS doesn’t know balance when it comes to them.
"Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them."
This summarizes perfectly the problem with the forums.
"I hate x so please nerf them"
Oh please. NBs have and always will be at top when it comes to PVP. They’re overpowered, and I hate them. Zos doesn’t have a clue what to do with them, I’m not making nerf threads daily about them but I’m just being honest.
actually nightblades arent op. against a dk their hard countered big time. sorcs you have wards you have no right to even say anything. templar your aoe healing god you can heal through their damage. wardens cant say anything about them as wardens are just terrible. and other nightblades can counter another nightblade so. nightblades are glass cannons if they cant kill you in a huge burst their caught with their pants down especially with a reveal ability or pot they stand no chance. they have one shot to kill you if they lose that chance their dead. so no their far from op. also the class that zos never nerfs nor can they think of how to nerf is sorcs.
Don't bother mate. All these haters obviously haven't even tried to play a stam NB before. I always laugh when people say stamblade is the ultimate cheese. Perhaps after sweat blood and tears for weeks of practice.
And then you still get F'd up if you make one bad move or get caught off guard.
or hit a dk that you thought was something else. ive done that so many times and i just got ripped to pieaces. cause chain always follows on top of talons and then im just stuck.1 -
Abhaya✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »also the class that zos never nerfs nor can they think of how to nerf is sorcs.
They say in the thread about the recent nerf to sorcs.. lol
Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=1691030 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Counterplay
Lol
Yes because major evasion doing the dodging for you is counterplay lol
As is having shields for ignoring % crit chance...
You reveal yourself best in how you play.
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DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭DuskMarine wrote: »also the class that zos never nerfs nor can they think of how to nerf is sorcs.
They say in the thread about the recent nerf to sorcs.. lol
yea but how long did it take? a long time granted theyll probly revert it for something else later as its already been stated.0 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
lol
Now it will be completely useless.
In PTS I thought it was about dodge roll only.
No, of course not. ZOS does nerfs thoroughly, even if they felt that a class needed buffs 3 months before.
There are countless threads on the PTS about it. Enjoy your stamNB buff.
Interesting, how the term "roll dodge" always implies stamina and/or Nightblades in most player's minds, even though every class/variant can do that...You reveal yourself best in how you play.
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Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
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Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Counterplay
Lol
Yes because major evasion doing the dodging for you is counterplay lol
The rug came right out from under ya. That was sarcasm btw,0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
lol
Now it will be completely useless.
In PTS I thought it was about dodge roll only.
No, of course not. ZOS does nerfs thoroughly, even if they felt that a class needed buffs 3 months before.
There are countless threads on the PTS about it. Enjoy your stamNB buff.
Interesting, how the term "roll dodge" always implies stamina and/or Nightblades in most player's minds, even though every class/variant can do that...
Magicka can only do it a handful of times before they run dryValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
lol
Now it will be completely useless.
In PTS I thought it was about dodge roll only.
No, of course not. ZOS does nerfs thoroughly, even if they felt that a class needed buffs 3 months before.
There are countless threads on the PTS about it. Enjoy your stamNB buff.
Interesting, how the term "roll dodge" always implies stamina and/or Nightblades in most player's minds, even though every class/variant can do that...
Magicka can only do it a handful of times before they run dry
Exactly, even they can. Stamina classes run dry eventually too...Why this bias?You reveal yourself best in how you play.
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Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
Actually they quite compare to each other as the burst combos of NB and DK is melee. The gap is nothing in this game, here is the gap and here it's gone. The only few occasions when you take advantage of rune-cage's range is fighting another ranged build which are not many or to slowdown a running player.
If they reduce the rune-cage range to 8 meters instead of the current nerf lets say then it will still outperform, as you will still be able to put down a deadly burst with no counters.
Again to make myself more clear...not range is the problem in the rune-cage but the delayed burst combos you can create with it, mainly with the help of meteor.
The skill did't need such a drastic change, now it is an obsolete skill.0 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Shuffle shouldn't be in the game to begin with. RNG to avoid all damage is stupid.
That's not the only thing that provides such a buff, you know? When you come across those things, you will realize that this might take more time and thought...You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
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jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Counterplay
Lol
Yes because major evasion doing the dodging for you is counterplay lol
As is having shields for ignoring % crit chance...
But shields take full, unmitigated damage. Crit or not, they take far more damage and require far more resources to keep up than dodge rolling. A 10K shield (halved from 20K in PVP) is done in one or two hits from most spammables in the game. Dodge roll can avoid those one to two spammables and then a few more, and even more if shuffle is up. Mag sorc is dead or nearly dead by the 3rd spammable unless they are spamming shields and doing zero offense.0 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
One is a melee class, and the other can use teleport strike to get in close, Sorc does not have a gap closer or a spammable up close.
Sorcs have streak which can function as a gap closer while also providing a stun.Apache_Kid wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
thats what I wanted to say. Exactly. I dont mind a nerf to runecage, its deserved. But give all classes an effective mean to counter it, not only 5 pieces medium classes.
What do you suggest as an acceptable nerf then?
An acceptable nerf? Leave defensive rune alone, make rune cage and base morph dodgable and return damage and damage condition on rune cage.
I would be fine with leaving the defensive rune alone. The damage needs to go. No reason sorcs should get any extra help getting people into execute range when they have the single best execute in the game hands down no question.
It would be fine but once a sorc is in a root, he/she cant turn directions so it is not reliable at all, that is why you don't see sorcs using streak to stun, hell I for one don't even have streak on my bar, it is a crap skill.
You don't need to rotate physically to inflict damage. You can do your ranged rotation while rooted as well - the challenging part is to keep DKs targeted as they always move around you and also it's not very easy to understand if you are rooted or stunned as well.
**Edited: My bad did not understand you refer to streak only...yeah streak sucks as a stunning tool...Its stun is very short - it is basically a free CC immunity if the pla, and you have to turn to continue your rotation, by the time you turn the target is out of CC. Also if it is a s+b block build then you cannot stun at all.Edited by Didgerion on August 13, 2018 6:22PM0
