Maintenance for the week of November 24:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 24
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 24
Shuffle dodges rune cage
-
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭.Apache_Kid wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
thats what I wanted to say. Exactly. I dont mind a nerf to runecage, its deserved. But give all classes an effective mean to counter it, not only 5 pieces medium classes.
What do you suggest as an acceptable nerf then?
An acceptable nerf? Leave defensive rune alone, make rune cage and base morph dodgable and return damage and damage condition on rune cage.
I would be fine with leaving the defensive rune alone. The damage needs to go. No reason sorcs should get any extra help getting people into execute range when they have the single best execute in the game hands down no question.Edited by Apache_Kid on August 13, 2018 3:49PM2 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
One is a melee class, and the other can use teleport strike to get in close, Sorc does not have a gap closer or a spammable up close.
Sorcs have streak which can function as a gap closer while also providing a stun.Apache_Kid wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
thats what I wanted to say. Exactly. I dont mind a nerf to runecage, its deserved. But give all classes an effective mean to counter it, not only 5 pieces medium classes.
What do you suggest as an acceptable nerf then?
An acceptable nerf? Leave defensive rune alone, make rune cage and base morph dodgable and return damage and damage condition on rune cage.
I would be fine with leaving the defensive rune alone. The damage needs to go. No reason sorcs should get any extra help getting people into execute range when they have the single best execute in the game hands down no question.
It would be fine but once a sorc is in a root, he/she cant turn directions so it is not reliable at all, that is why you don't see sorcs using streak to stun, hell I for one don't even have streak on my bar, it is a crap skill.0 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »I think we should agree to disagree, and Ive never used to runecage meteor combo btw. I have stamwarden, stamdk and stamnb. Of those 3 I only find shuffle usable on my stamNB. On my warden I use 7th. and shackle, same on my stamDK. I did use medium on both but the drawbacks surpassed the benefits too much outside the zerg. I tested hulking on both classes, I could probably swap in shuffle there....Still, you wanna force all magclasses into running shuffle?
in most of my medium armor builds, i don't even use shuffle, Forward Momentum is way better, and major evasion isn't that good as people think it is. I never mentioned shuffle once, as i said, every class can dodge. Stamina can dodge more, and magika can dodge more than enought if build properly (you shouldn't be running a stampool lower than 14-15k on magika builds)
Medium armor requires you to play smart, and to have good mobility. Otherwise yes, use heavy.Edited by ManDraKE on August 13, 2018 3:52PM1 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »I think we should agree to disagree, and Ive never used to runecage meteor combo btw. I have stamwarden, stamdk and stamnb. Of those 3 I only find shuffle usable on my stamNB. On my warden I use 7th. and shackle, same on my stamDK. I did use medium on both but the drawbacks surpassed the benefits too much outside the zerg. I tested hulking on both classes, I could probably swap in shuffle there....Still, you wanna force all magclasses into running shuffle?
in most of my medium armor builds, i don't even use shuffle, Forward Momentum is way better, and major evasion isn't that good as people think it is. I never mentioned shuffle once, as i said, every class can dodge. Stamina can dodge more, and magika can dodge more than enought if build properly (you shouldn't be running a stampool lower than 14-15k on magika builds)
Medium armor requires you to play smart, and to have good mobility. Otherwise yes, use heavy.
I see your points, but in the end it still forces players into using skills which otherwise wouldnt be optimal for anything other than NB's. I have enough stam to do the occational dodgeroll on my sorc warden and dk, but its only the optimal solution to NB's, hence any other clsses than NB will be nerfed by having to slot for dodgerolling. Do we agree on that? The other classes have better class abilities than dodging attacks to be competitive and not only focus on escaping. Not to mention the other classes have gear more suited to optimize their classes better than having to use dodge rewarding gear. Especially magica classes.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Yup and these classes also don't have delayed burst with two auto-executes. Just saying.
By all means get rid of the delayed burst and Implosion. I’d like the non telegraphed upfront burst and 9/12 good class passives better anyway. You know, like a certain class that is already in game.
Get rid of the delayed proc of Mage's Fury, make Curse dodgeable blockable and instant, and I'll be cool with Rune Cage being undodgeable as long as the range is reduced to 8m or less.0 -
Jameliel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Going sorc~hunting on my stamblade tomorrow:~D Been getting owned with rune cages. It's a pity the devs are either too lazy or too dense to fix break free. Hands down worst devs ever of a major mmo. No shame haha0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeh, it's now dogeable like a lot of other stuns.
Like Templar stuns (one of which is even reflectable)
Like warden stuns (except ult)
Like all Stam user stuns
Only ones that now ignore dodge are time stop, fear, fossilize, vamp drain and maybe one or two more. All of which have cast times or are close range. Counterplay. Rune cage had none.3 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
So your comparing a class skill to a weapon skill everyone can have? It’s still a generic skill that pigeon holes sorcs even further to all being the same build.
I thought the pigeon hole was runecage? Forgive me if I am wrong. I dont really understand you, you want a third stun? How many classes has two effective stuns available? Im not gonna follow this road anyway, as I feel as a sorc a runecage nerf was needed. HOWEVER the way it is handled by zos is pathetic. What should be a nerf is instead a buff to nightblaes. And NB's exclusively.
It's not just NBs that dodge... Everyone in medium dodges a LOT. If you don't, you die fairly quickly.
Dodge isn't even as good a defence as shields.Edited by Brrrofski on August 13, 2018 4:27PM2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"Plz nerf Rune Cage! It's so broken that I can't even break free from it!!!!!!
"
"You want to be able to dodge it? Okay!"
10/10, ZOS always listens to the communityEdited by Valrien on August 13, 2018 4:28PMValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭For some strange sadistic reason this entire topic makes me extremely happy.
Justice after all. Fight fire with fire. Now you sorcs will all know how it feels to be powerless.
That is... Those of you who couldn't play the game without your rune cage 1-shot combo spam. No more R 1 2 3 to win.
All the actually good sorcs, I still love you.Edited by Nyladreas on August 13, 2018 4:36PM4 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At this point, I would trade RC for Fear or Fossilize. This nerf shows that ZOS is clueless. Yes it needed a nerf, but this skill is going to be difficult to slot at the moment.
First, stop the BS debate. This is a stamblade buff full stop. Yes it buffs any medium armor class, but nobody is going to feel this more than a stamblade, especially a heavy armor stambalde. Cloak roll cloak roll, that is how they defend. Stamblades were absolutely the most powerful class in PVP last week, and the gap is bigger today.
Second, the two issues were first CC break and immunity are f'ing broken. This skill had a wonky annimation that componded the problem. Second, the range was a bit over the top. Did they fix either of these? Nope. Needing damage to run its full course is MEANINGLESS. If you stay in a hard CC that long, you are dead even if it ended with a heal. Making it dodgeable, well see my first point.
Fear and Fossilize also play right into the wheelhouse of their respective classes.
NBs have the ability to gapclose, fear, and kill or escape. The range is irrelevant. And fear animation is just as broken as RC IMO. People complain about delayed burst on a sorc? What about upfront burst on a stamblade which hits WAY harder.
DKs get a double CC for one button. They are already in melee range, then they can hard and soft CC you simultaneously with one button, through block or dodge. DKs kill with pressure, and nothing pressures stamina better than Fossilize. How about if immobilize only happen if you let it run its full course? That would at least resemble balance.
The balance team is a joke at this point. You use forum rage to spot problems, and then all you do is throw gas on the fire.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on August 13, 2018 4:35PM0 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
So your comparing a class skill to a weapon skill everyone can have? It’s still a generic skill that pigeon holes sorcs even further to all being the same build.
I thought the pigeon hole was runecage? Forgive me if I am wrong. I dont really understand you, you want a third stun? How many classes has two effective stuns available? Im not gonna follow this road anyway, as I feel as a sorc a runecage nerf was needed. HOWEVER the way it is handled by zos is pathetic. What should be a nerf is instead a buff to nightblaes. And NB's exclusively.
It's not just NBs that dodge... Everyone in medium dodges a LOT. If you don't, you die fairly quickly.
Dodge isn't even as good a defence as shields.
LOL! Dodge is faaaaar superior to shields. Shut it kid, you have no clue what you're talking about.Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
So your comparing a class skill to a weapon skill everyone can have? It’s still a generic skill that pigeon holes sorcs even further to all being the same build.
I thought the pigeon hole was runecage? Forgive me if I am wrong. I dont really understand you, you want a third stun? How many classes has two effective stuns available? Im not gonna follow this road anyway, as I feel as a sorc a runecage nerf was needed. HOWEVER the way it is handled by zos is pathetic. What should be a nerf is instead a buff to nightblaes. And NB's exclusively.
It's not just NBs that dodge... Everyone in medium dodges a LOT. If you don't, you die fairly quickly.
Dodge isn't even as good a defence as shields.
Let's see...one makes you immune to almost everything, the other makes you take full unmitigated damage (except it doesn't crit).
Yeah, shields are totally better than rolling.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Abhaya✭✭✭✭People talking like it's only stamNB's that run shuffle, which is available and used by all medium armour builds
How many stam characters are not NBs though these days? The odd Stamplar and StamWarden, and a few stubborn stamDKs and stamSorcs, but that’s about it.
Besides, magNB got an extra with Blur as well.usmguy1234 wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
When you aren't aware that shuffle is a skill under the medium armor skill line.
How embarrassing.
He's not wrong seeing that running medium is suicide for anything but nightblades and masochist.
I'm a medium stam sorc main, been wearing handcuffs for a while now.
Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=1691031 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
So your comparing a class skill to a weapon skill everyone can have? It’s still a generic skill that pigeon holes sorcs even further to all being the same build.
I thought the pigeon hole was runecage? Forgive me if I am wrong. I dont really understand you, you want a third stun? How many classes has two effective stuns available? Im not gonna follow this road anyway, as I feel as a sorc a runecage nerf was needed. HOWEVER the way it is handled by zos is pathetic. What should be a nerf is instead a buff to nightblaes. And NB's exclusively.
It's not just NBs that dodge... Everyone in medium dodges a LOT. If you don't, you die fairly quickly.
Dodge isn't even as good a defence as shields.
Let's see...one makes you immune to almost everything, the other makes you take full unmitigated damage (except it doesn't crit).
Yeah, shields are totally better than rolling.
Yeah they are and always have been and always will be. You can't make your shields cost 3x as much magicka within 5 seconds now, can you?
Besides there are tons of abilities that ignore dodge, dots ignore dodge, aoes, even some direct damage abilities. Dawnbreaker, Soul Assault, Meteor etc etc. And you do realise it all hits medium armor extremely hard right?
Shields literally absorb ALL damage except oblivion. And you complain? Gtho...Edited by Nyladreas on August 13, 2018 4:45PM4 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
So your comparing a class skill to a weapon skill everyone can have? It’s still a generic skill that pigeon holes sorcs even further to all being the same build.
I thought the pigeon hole was runecage? Forgive me if I am wrong. I dont really understand you, you want a third stun? How many classes has two effective stuns available? Im not gonna follow this road anyway, as I feel as a sorc a runecage nerf was needed. HOWEVER the way it is handled by zos is pathetic. What should be a nerf is instead a buff to nightblaes. And NB's exclusively.
It's not just NBs that dodge... Everyone in medium dodges a LOT. If you don't, you die fairly quickly.
Dodge isn't even as good a defence as shields.
Let's see...one makes you immune to almost everything, the other makes you take full unmitigated damage (except it doesn't crit).
Yeah, shields are totally better than rolling.
Yeah they are and always have been and always will be. You can't make your shields cost 3x as much magicka within 5 seconds now, can you?
Wish we had jewelry or glyphs or a CP tree that reduces the cost of shield stacking, hmm..Oh wait.0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
So your comparing a class skill to a weapon skill everyone can have? It’s still a generic skill that pigeon holes sorcs even further to all being the same build.
I thought the pigeon hole was runecage? Forgive me if I am wrong. I dont really understand you, you want a third stun? How many classes has two effective stuns available? Im not gonna follow this road anyway, as I feel as a sorc a runecage nerf was needed. HOWEVER the way it is handled by zos is pathetic. What should be a nerf is instead a buff to nightblaes. And NB's exclusively.
It's not just NBs that dodge... Everyone in medium dodges a LOT. If you don't, you die fairly quickly.
Dodge isn't even as good a defence as shields.
Let's see...one makes you immune to almost everything, the other makes you take full unmitigated damage (except it doesn't crit).
Yeah, shields are totally better than rolling.
Yeah they are and always have been and always will be. You can't make your shields cost 3x as much magicka within 5 seconds now, can you?
Don't need to, they're already expensive as hell and need to be used almost twice as often as dodge roll under extreme pressure.Edited by Valrien on August 13, 2018 4:39PMValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why wouldn’t this be intended? It’s a dodgeable skill.
I guess OP had hope that the skill wasn't useless in almost any situation.
Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭AHAHAHAHAHAAHA
this is what happens when you call for nerfs.
The issue with rune cage was simply cc break being buggy. Now it can be passively dodged. "This isn't the fix we wanted" some may say.
This isnt the first time. There a pattern.
Forums and/or some streamer says skill or set _______ is broken. People suggest ways to make it not broken. Zod acknowledges its broken. Zos then makes change that doesnt address the root cause or that nobody really wanted. Forums complain about the fix.
Careful what you wish for people of the forums, this happens quite often.1 -
antihero727✭✭✭✭✭Unless your a sour, bitter, and everything sorc sucks player. Almost everyone agrees that the nerf was the wrong one. Just fix breakfree and all is good. Nerfing an already overly nerfed class further to ninja buff another play style is just ignorance. Besides shields what does a sorc have unique to the play style?Veldrn-AD Magica Sorc
Bizarro Veldrn-AD Stam Sorc
Antiherro-AD Stam DK
Antihero-AD Magplar
Aww Crit-AD Magblade
AD Since PC beta
On A lag free vacation
for the near and far future0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
So your comparing a class skill to a weapon skill everyone can have? It’s still a generic skill that pigeon holes sorcs even further to all being the same build.
I thought the pigeon hole was runecage? Forgive me if I am wrong. I dont really understand you, you want a third stun? How many classes has two effective stuns available? Im not gonna follow this road anyway, as I feel as a sorc a runecage nerf was needed. HOWEVER the way it is handled by zos is pathetic. What should be a nerf is instead a buff to nightblaes. And NB's exclusively.
It's not just NBs that dodge... Everyone in medium dodges a LOT. If you don't, you die fairly quickly.
Dodge isn't even as good a defence as shields.
Let's see...one makes you immune to almost everything, the other makes you take full unmitigated damage (except it doesn't crit).
Yeah, shields are totally better than rolling.
Yeah they are and always have been and always will be. You can't make your shields cost 3x as much magicka within 5 seconds now, can you?
Besides there are tons of abilities that ignore dodge, dots ignore dodge, aoes, even some direct damage abilities. Dawnbreaker, Soul Assault, Meteor etc etc.
Shields literally absorb ALL damage except oblivion. And you complain? Gtho...
In reference to your edits, Shields absorb all damage, but you take a ton more and they're expensive as hell. About as expensive as roll dodge, but the "damage immunity" window is a lot shorter since shields have a life bar of their own.
As for abilities that ignore dodge, DoTs are pretty weak and stam builds have Momentum + Vigor 24/7 which is healing on-par with shielding but they get to keep their full resistances. So if you dodge with a DoT up, you'll be immune to everything else and just heal through the DoT. The ults can be problematic, sure, but block will fix what dodge cannot...and once again you'll just heal it back up. And no one really uses AoEs except ball groups.
Dodge + Momentum + Vigor + Block = amazing. Magicka builds don't really have the options of Block and Dodge because if they do either of those too much they won't have the stamina to break free from the CC of a burst combo, and Sorcs in particular do not have the healing to back up shields...they mainly have Healing Ward (which can be broken too!
) Edited by Valrien on August 13, 2018 4:51PMValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
being able to dodge rune cage actually balanced out pvp(as it has no useable use in pve) so it was a needed change. one class should never have a major one up on another through a almost unbreakable undodgeable stun.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Is that intended? Because that is OP
Might want to keep an eye on the pts next round since it was well known and documented fine cage was becoming dodgeable.
Roll dodgable I didn't know skills would be able to dodge it
Pretty sure anything than can he roll dodger can he dodged if evasion happens to proc. Though evasion has only a small chance to proc.
The problem with evasion is when it does, you are dodging everything thrown at you for 1.5 seconds
It’s still only a 15% chance to proc and regular dodge roll can dodge more than one incoming attack and has a duration as well.0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Let me ask this, do they rely on them as much as Sorc does? Because if the burst is not locked into place via CC it's very easy to mitigate.
Plus, 3/5 classes had unblockable, undodgeable CCs to counter builds that dodge and block heavily...now 2. But that also means 2 still got to keep theirs.Edited by Valrien on August 13, 2018 4:53PMValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
being able to dodge rune cage actually balanced out pvp(as it has no useable use in pve) so it was a needed change. one class should never have a major one up on another through a almost unbreakable undodgeable stun.
Looking at you nbs and dks
0 -
Olen_Mikko✭✭✭✭✭
✭OMG i love the salty tears of bad sorcs. Now you actually need to know even a little, how to play.
"Buuhuu, i can't cheeseburst people. I want my OP Rune Cage back!"NB enthusiastic:- Woodhippie stamblade - DW hard-hitter / PvE
- Know-it-all elf Magblade - Healer / PvE & PvP
- Hate-them-all elf Magblade - Destrostaff AoE monster / PvE
- Cyrodiil-Refugee stamblade - Stamina Tank / PvE
Go dominion or go home
Nightblade-Hipster. I played Nightblade before it was cool - from 1.5 onwards.7 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Brosteen wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
being able to dodge rune cage actually balanced out pvp(as it has no useable use in pve) so it was a needed change. one class should never have a major one up on another through a almost unbreakable undodgeable stun.
Looking at you nbs and dks
nbs and dks arent that bad. least their stuff didnt include auto skills0