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Shuffle dodges rune cage
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Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
It is a bad Rune-Cage fix @ZOS_GinaBruno.
Here is a little bit of why I put it on my bar:
I had to put rune-cage on my bar only to compensate the Crystal Frag's stun removal. It was a really difficult decision to make as I had to give up one of my skills to accommodate it - so I traded streak for rune-cage...streak - a class defining skill...and it was right at the beginning when no one talked about rune-cage.
Yes Rune-cage over-performs but only for 2 reasons:
1. It is hard to CC break it
2. Rune-cage + Meteor combo is too strong
Why not fixing above problems instead of ruining the skill into the ground?
Do you need ideas of fixing it? Here they are: anything would work better than what you did: (i hope your team can figure out how to fix problem nr.1 as i won't give ideas on that):- Give player CC immunity when targeted by meteor. Slightly increase the damage on target to compensate.
- Reduce the meteor damage on the target player. Slightly increase damage on nearby players to compensate.
- Reduce the meteor damage but apply Detonation mechanic to it.
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Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
When you aren't aware that shuffle is a skill under the medium armor skill line.
How embarrassing.
Well, considering populations it is. But maybe it’s a stamDK buff as well, and ZOS finally heard these. What do you think @Ragnarock41 ?
Stam nightblades are a dying breed on Xbox NA. Sorcs of both stam and mag dominate the pvp population on my platform/server
So much misinformation.
Nah2 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.Edited by Apache_Kid on August 13, 2018 3:21PM6 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
When you aren't aware that shuffle is a skill under the medium armor skill line.
How embarrassing.
Well, considering populations it is. But maybe it’s a stamDK buff as well, and ZOS finally heard these. What do you think @Ragnarock41 ?
Stam nightblades are a dying breed on Xbox NA. Sorcs of both stam and mag dominate the pvp population on my platform/server
Well on a controller I can imagine how much harder it is to play a stam character
HOWEVER, on PC stam does better than magicka because of how agile they are
Yeah it's the opposite on console. This could explain our differing conclusions on balance. Everything is dominated by magicka on console.
Maybe if they increased the frame rate, and reticle speed it could improve the gameplay.2 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Fozzilise a sorc and he will still streak away. Fear you break free of. I dont find these skills too hard to deal with. Whats not acceptable is the fact ONE class gets the tools to avoid cage and sloads. That means I can still happily sload away all classes except stamNB. I can also still lock any non stamNB class into my cage. THAT is the problem here. NO counterskill should be given effectively to ONE class. Thats just ***. And magclasses are screwed again.
Sorry but last time i check every class can dodge roll, and anyone running medium armor has access to major evasion for shuffle. So explain me why the stamblades get a magic counter to rune cage that other class doesn't have?
About sloads you are right, cloak is a good counter now that it works agaisnt it, but the problem there is not cloak, is sloads
Micah_Bayer wrote: »Yeah but you're not counting fear and fossilize which act same as rune cage. Through block and roll dodge and have no counter at all.
Fear 6mts range, rune cage 28mts range (plus extra range on cyrodill). And while fossilize is similar to runecage, that class toolkit doesn't synergy with the ranged CC as the sorc does.Micah_Bayer wrote: »
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
False. The master staff is good if you want to use clench as a spammable DPS. But you can simple replace runecage with clench, keep using force pulse as spammable DPS and take advatange of having 5+5+2. Depending on the build, you can benefit more of having 5+5+2 than having the master staff.
So tell me what other classes effectively run 5 pieces medium in a competitive pvp setting apart from NB's? I want builds and videos of it working because I want shuffle on my sorc thank you.0 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »If you slot 5 pieces medium armour on anything than a stamNB youre a freshly picked potato and spend your time in cyrodiil /z lfg. I dont know any competent non NB's using shuffle. Some patches ago when it wasnt 5 pieces exclusive, all did.killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »
So tell me what other classes effectively run 5 pieces medium in a competitive pvp setting apart from NB's? I want builds and videos of it working because I want shuffle on my sorc thank you.
in fact, in the current meta, the only class where using heavy is the go-to option is stamwarden. Stamplar and stamsorcs use medium for the most part, mobility gives far more survability than the extra resistences and healing of heavy (even more if you use swift jewerly), and stamdks can work with both types of armor very well. Heavy armor works well better on stamnb than stamplar for example, because the class has better self sustain.
Before trying to lecture us in stamina meta, you maybe want to stop runecaging and spamming fury for 40km away and actually try to learn stamina classes lol. You are 2 metas behindEdited by ManDraKE on August 13, 2018 3:25PM11 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Is that intended? Because that is OP
Might want to keep an eye on the pts next round since it was well known and documented fine cage was becoming dodgeable.1 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
thats what I wanted to say. Exactly. I dont mind a nerf to runecage, its deserved. But give all classes an effective mean to counter it, not only 5 pieces medium classes.0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Is that intended? Because that is OP
Might want to keep an eye on the pts next round since it was well known and documented fine cage was becoming dodgeable.
Roll dodgable I didn't know skills would be able to dodge it0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
thats what I wanted to say. Exactly. I dont mind a nerf to runecage, its deserved. But give all classes an effective mean to counter it, not only 5 pieces medium classes.
What do you suggest as an acceptable nerf then?0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »If you slot 5 pieces medium armour on anything than a stamNB youre a freshly picked potato and spend your time in cyrodiil /z lfg. I dont know any competent non NB's using shuffle. Some patches ago when it wasnt 5 pieces exclusive, all did.killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »
So tell me what other classes effectively run 5 pieces medium in a competitive pvp setting apart from NB's? I want builds and videos of it working because I want shuffle on my sorc thank you.
in fact, in the current meta, the only class where using heavy is the go-to option is stamwarden. Stamplar and stamsorcs use medium for the most part, mobility gives far more survability than the extra resistences and healing of heavy (even more if you use swift jewerly), and stamdks can work with both types of armor very well. Heavy armor works well better on stamnb than stamplar for example, because the class has better self sustain.
Before trying to lecture us in stamina meta, you maybe want to stop runecaging and spamming fury for 40km away and actually try to learn stamina classes lol. You are 2 metas behind
Yeah try to sustain on stamplar in heavy armor and let us know how that goes2 -
Avnr✭✭✭Stam nb is the only pure class that use it's own ability's only
Hard to master , the few out there who master that class terrifying you, for a good reason .
For years I have not come even close to a "good" nb , have all the respect to those who invest time and skills to master that class.
Now all you see out there is snipe and hide spawn from someone who just don't know to play stam nb
gank build made by the same players , trash builds , don't mix with them.
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Dashmatt✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »The only counter I ever wanted to Rune Cage was to be able to reliably break free from it, but that's too tall of an order.
Seriously, would love to know why this wasn’t the solution. Instead we have a counter that favors some classes way more than others. On top of that you have the RNG of evasion. All together, it’s now just a super unreliable skill that is either garbage or broken if it lands (because you still can’t break free properly.)
This really doesn’t do any favors to the quality of the game.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »The only counter I ever wanted to Rune Cage was to be able to reliably break free from it, but that's too tall of an order.
Seriously, would love to know why this wasn’t the solution. Instead we have a counter that favors some classes way more than others. On top of that you have the RNG of evasion. All together, it’s now just a super unreliable skill that is either garbage or broken if it lands (because you still can’t break free properly.)
This really doesn’t do any favors to the quality of the game.
That solution would have involved altering the skill animation. Nerfing is way easier.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Yup and these classes also don't have delayed burst with two auto-executes. Just saying.4 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »If you slot 5 pieces medium armour on anything than a stamNB youre a freshly picked potato and spend your time in cyrodiil /z lfg. I dont know any competent non NB's using shuffle. Some patches ago when it wasnt 5 pieces exclusive, all did.killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »
So tell me what other classes effectively run 5 pieces medium in a competitive pvp setting apart from NB's? I want builds and videos of it working because I want shuffle on my sorc thank you.
in fact, in the current meta, the only class where using heavy is the go-to option is stamwarden. Stamplar and stamsorcs use medium for the most part, mobility gives far more survability than the extra resistences and healing of heavy (even more if you use swift jewerly), and stamdks can work with both types of armor very well. Heavy armor works well better on stamnb than stamplar for example, because the class has better self sustain.
Before trying to lecture us in stamina meta, you maybe want to stop runecaging and spamming fury for 40km away and actually try to learn stamina classes lol. You are 2 metas behind
I think we should agree to disagree, and Ive never used to runecage meteor combo btw. I have stamwarden, stamdk and stamnb. Of those 3 I only find shuffle usable on my stamNB. On my warden I use 7th. and shackle, same on my stamDK. I did use medium on both but the drawbacks surpassed the benefits too much outside the zerg. I tested hulking on both classes, I could probably swap in shuffle there....Still, you wanna force all magclasses into running shuffle?0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Yup and these classes also don't have delayed burst with two auto-executes. Just saying.
DK can apply all it's dots, toss meteor, fossilize and powerlash, dead person.
NB can cast dots, pop a pot, incap, fear, merciless resolve which hits 30% harder than a frag so that makes up for the delayed curse.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Is that intended? Because that is OP
Might want to keep an eye on the pts next round since it was well known and documented fine cage was becoming dodgeable.
Roll dodgable I didn't know skills would be able to dodge it
Pretty sure anything than can he roll dodger can he dodged if evasion happens to proc. Though evasion has only a small chance to proc.Edited by idk on August 13, 2018 3:35PM3 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
thats what I wanted to say. Exactly. I dont mind a nerf to runecage, its deserved. But give all classes an effective mean to counter it, not only 5 pieces medium classes.
What do you suggest as an acceptable nerf then?
break free1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭People still use cage?Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
One is a melee class, and the other can use teleport strike to get in close, Sorc does not have a gap closer or a spammable up close.
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Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
One is a melee class, and the other can use teleport strike to get in close, Sorc does not have a gap closer or a spammable up close.
It is pretty relevant to mention that0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Is that intended? Because that is OP
Might want to keep an eye on the pts next round since it was well known and documented fine cage was becoming dodgeable.
Roll dodgable I didn't know skills would be able to dodge it
Pretty sure anything than can he roll dodger can he dodged if evasion happens to proc. Though evasion has only a small chance to proc.
The problem with evasion is when it does, you are dodging everything thrown at you for 1.5 seconds0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Yup and these classes also don't have delayed burst with two auto-executes. Just saying.
By all means get rid of the delayed burst and Implosion. I’d like the non telegraphed upfront burst and 9/12 good class passives better anyway. You know, like a certain class that is already in game.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭All rune cage needed was reliable CC break. Eh, whatever, my sorc alt has just become a negate and aoe/root spamming group support character for when I get bored of solo play and wanna play with others anyhow.0 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Watching Nightblades debate Sorcs is like watching Spy Vs Spy
Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!7 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Apache_Kid wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
That is pretty broken, it's not even usable and the justification for nerfing frag was to buff rune cage, now it is even worse than it was in the beginning, and both skills are ruined.
It's ruined because you have to cast it twice? Major Evasion passively dodges ults all the time, but because it dodges your long range CC it's broken OP? Incredible.
Well fear and fossilize cant be dodged by shuffle, just saying
Fear and fossilize do not have anything near the range of rune cage. Unclear as to why you are event trying to make this comparison.
thats what I wanted to say. Exactly. I dont mind a nerf to runecage, its deserved. But give all classes an effective mean to counter it, not only 5 pieces medium classes.
What do you suggest as an acceptable nerf then?
An acceptable nerf? Leave defensive rune alone, make rune cage and base morph dodgable and return damage and damage condition on rune cage.0
