starkerealm wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

Say for example, the meta is being a vampire for regen and damage resistance and escape via mist form.

Now if say you could buy a vampire bite in the crown store that would be pay to win.

@Mattock_Romulus

Incorrect. If vampire was only available vid the crown store or if it was a better version than what was available in game the yiu could call it P2W. As it is a vampire bite in game is very easy to obtain.

Sure. You can define it that way. For me pay to win is paying money for items or power without playing the game. The OP asked us what we thought pay to win is. That's my definition. My opinion.

Did you get your definition from an official source or is everyone just pulling their definitions out of their arses?

Because there are "official sources," for industry analysis. Right. And, for reference, I'm building off of years of looking at the industry, and the decisions made by various developers.

Thanks just wanted to clarify that the reason you think my opinion is incorrect is because you think your opinion is correct. Gotcha.

No, I think your opinion is incorrect because your "definition," is little more than a misrepresented example, and indicates a lack of understanding of both P2W and how to play ESO. That I also happen to know what I'm talking about is completely incidental to your position.

Here are sources that support my definition:

"In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" (p2w) games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay."
- Wikipedia

"Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)."
- Urban Dictionary

"When money provides an objectively better experience when playing, meaning that if the purchasable content creates a noticeable distinction between the haves and the have-nots.

“Better Experience” includes in game advantages, stronger in game gear or anything that makes the paying players stand above the free players.
This is especially a major deal in games with competitions or PVP play."
- Game-Wisdom

You can find an article on the subject here: https://allods.my.com/forum/index.php?page=Thread&postID=72663

For reference, i have been in the industry for the better part of 17 years. I have played ESO since beta.

Technically, one source. As the bulk of that is copied verbatim from the post you linked. In 17 years, I would have hoped you'd be able to quickly, and efficiently, articulate your own positions regarding P2W, rather than simply regurgitating a forum post from two years ago, while engaging in borderline plagiarism. (I say, "borderline," because, while you did cite the original post, you attempted to present the text as if these were multiple, independent, sources.) If you'd wrapped the entire mess in quote tags, it would have been no big deal, but as written, not so much.

For example, here are some of my thoughts on plagiarism.

The definitions provided are fine. They're not your definition, but that's academic at the moment. More than that, your vampire example does not fit them.

Buying a bite from the store is not substantially faster than obtaining a bite from another player, or being in the right place, at the right time, to obtain a natural infection. As a result, normal players do in fact, have access to that advantage without extensive grinding.

More than that, Vampirism isn't, really, an upgrade. Yes, depending on who you're interacting with, you may be left with the impression that Vampirism will make you more powerful. That's not entirely true. It can be useful, if applied correctly, however far more often, the game of internet telephone reduces it down to, "vampires are meta!" without a critical thought, or any idea how to apply it to a build.

The Game-Wisdom definition is somewhat dubious, because it's excessively broad. Following that definition to the letter would make normal content expansions Pay to Win, simply for the sake of them being added. For example, that would classify Vvardenfell as Pay to Win, because it provides an improved and refined play experience, over content outside of that zone, with a similar argument for Clockwork City owing, exclusively, to the unique aesthetics. Arguing that those elements are pay to win is farcical. The intent is sound, but the test, as written, is unusable.

Were Battlegrounds Pay to Win when they were introduced, because they were paywalled and provided a superior small scale PvP experience? Game Wisdom's definition says yes.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

So, by your definition if Zos sells the best gear in the store which would make a character very likely to win in pvp etc., then it's not pay to win so long as there is a chance, however small, that someone with less means could obtain the item in game.

Cool, awesome. I hope i can buy VMA weapons in the store at some point so i don't have to play the content.

If you're hoping a vMA bow will be your key to victory in PvP... I've got some bad news for you. The Destro staves are alright, but you'd be far better off with a Perfected Asylum staff for PvP.

Now, if ZOS did choose to start selling endgame gear in the store, then sure, accusing them of P2W would be entirely reasonable. But that's a hypothetical that hasn't occurred, and almost certainly won't.

As a developer you should be entirely familiar with the idea that some players will gleefully classify everything and anything behind a paywall as P2W if they want it. I mean, these boards have had people calling the Frostcaster motif Pay to Win. That Game-Wisdom definition sounds suspiciously like an attempt to justify those arguments.

So, no, if you have a position that isn't based in hypotheticals, or your own definition, I'd invite you to share it. Though, at this point, I'll admit, it would be a little suspect.

Regarding Plagiarism. I never once posted anything from the article I cited as being something I wrote myself. I clearly referenced the article and included quotes from that articles sources. Plagiarism is writing something and passing it off as your own writing. That was not the case. I do not appreciate being called a liar just because you do not agree with my point of view.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

Say for example, the meta is being a vampire for regen and damage resistance and escape via mist form.

Now if say you could buy a vampire bite in the crown store that would be pay to win.

@Mattock_Romulus

Incorrect. If vampire was only available vid the crown store or if it was a better version than what was available in game the yiu could call it P2W. As it is a vampire bite in game is very easy to obtain.

Sure. You can define it that way. For me pay to win is paying money for items or power without playing the game. The OP asked us what we thought pay to win is. That's my definition. My opinion.

Did you get your definition from an official source or is everyone just pulling their definitions out of their arses?

Because there are "official sources," for industry analysis. Right. And, for reference, I'm building off of years of looking at the industry, and the decisions made by various developers.

Thanks just wanted to clarify that the reason you think my opinion is incorrect is because you think your opinion is correct. Gotcha.

No, I think your opinion is incorrect because your "definition," is little more than a misrepresented example, and indicates a lack of understanding of both P2W and how to play ESO. That I also happen to know what I'm talking about is completely incidental to your position.

Here are sources that support my definition:

"In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" (p2w) games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay."
- Wikipedia

"Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)."
- Urban Dictionary

"When money provides an objectively better experience when playing, meaning that if the purchasable content creates a noticeable distinction between the haves and the have-nots.

“Better Experience” includes in game advantages, stronger in game gear or anything that makes the paying players stand above the free players.
This is especially a major deal in games with competitions or PVP play."
- Game-Wisdom

You can find an article on the subject here: https://allods.my.com/forum/index.php?page=Thread&postID=72663

For reference, i have been in the industry for the better part of 17 years. I have played ESO since beta.

Technically, one source. As the bulk of that is copied verbatim from the post you linked. In 17 years, I would have hoped you'd be able to quickly, and efficiently, articulate your own positions regarding P2W, rather than simply regurgitating a forum post from two years ago, while engaging in borderline plagiarism. (I say, "borderline," because, while you did cite the original post, you attempted to present the text as if these were multiple, independent, sources.) If you'd wrapped the entire mess in quote tags, it would have been no big deal, but as written, not so much.

For example, here are some of my thoughts on plagiarism.

The definitions provided are fine. They're not your definition, but that's academic at the moment. More than that, your vampire example does not fit them.

Buying a bite from the store is not substantially faster than obtaining a bite from another player, or being in the right place, at the right time, to obtain a natural infection. As a result, normal players do in fact, have access to that advantage without extensive grinding.

More than that, Vampirism isn't, really, an upgrade. Yes, depending on who you're interacting with, you may be left with the impression that Vampirism will make you more powerful. That's not entirely true. It can be useful, if applied correctly, however far more often, the game of internet telephone reduces it down to, "vampires are meta!" without a critical thought, or any idea how to apply it to a build.

The Game-Wisdom definition is somewhat dubious, because it's excessively broad. Following that definition to the letter would make normal content expansions Pay to Win, simply for the sake of them being added. For example, that would classify Vvardenfell as Pay to Win, because it provides an improved and refined play experience, over content outside of that zone, with a similar argument for Clockwork City owing, exclusively, to the unique aesthetics. Arguing that those elements are pay to win is farcical. The intent is sound, but the test, as written, is unusable.

Were Battlegrounds Pay to Win when they were introduced, because they were paywalled and provided a superior small scale PvP experience? Game Wisdom's definition says yes.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

So, by your definition if Zos sells the best gear in the store which would make a character very likely to win in pvp etc., then it's not pay to win so long as there is a chance, however small, that someone with less means could obtain the item in game.

Cool, awesome. I hope i can buy VMA weapons in the store at some point so i don't have to play the content.

If you're hoping a vMA bow will be your key to victory in PvP... I've got some bad news for you. The Destro staves are alright, but you'd be far better off with a Perfected Asylum staff for PvP.

Now, if ZOS did choose to start selling endgame gear in the store, then sure, accusing them of P2W would be entirely reasonable. But that's a hypothetical that hasn't occurred, and almost certainly won't.

As a developer you should be entirely familiar with the idea that some players will gleefully classify everything and anything behind a paywall as P2W if they want it. I mean, these boards have had people calling the Frostcaster motif Pay to Win. That Game-Wisdom definition sounds suspiciously like an attempt to justify those arguments.

So, no, if you have a position that isn't based in hypotheticals, or your own definition, I'd invite you to share it. Though, at this point, I'll admit, it would be a little suspect.

Regarding Plagiarism. I never once posted anything from the article I cited as being something I wrote myself. I clearly referenced the article and included quotes from that articles sources. Plagiarism is writing something and passing it off as your own writing. That was not the case. I do not appreciate being called a liar just because you do not agree with my point of view.

You, literally, copy and pasted the post, committing the first paragraph, then cited the source as "an article." That's plagiarism.

Warden is still P2L

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

Say for example, the meta is being a vampire for regen and damage resistance and escape via mist form.

Now if say you could buy a vampire bite in the crown store that would be pay to win.

@Mattock_Romulus

Incorrect. If vampire was only available vid the crown store or if it was a better version than what was available in game the yiu could call it P2W. As it is a vampire bite in game is very easy to obtain.

Sure. You can define it that way. For me pay to win is paying money for items or power without playing the game. The OP asked us what we thought pay to win is. That's my definition. My opinion.

Did you get your definition from an official source or is everyone just pulling their definitions out of their arses?

Because there are "official sources," for industry analysis. Right. And, for reference, I'm building off of years of looking at the industry, and the decisions made by various developers.

Thanks just wanted to clarify that the reason you think my opinion is incorrect is because you think your opinion is correct. Gotcha.

No, I think your opinion is incorrect because your "definition," is little more than a misrepresented example, and indicates a lack of understanding of both P2W and how to play ESO. That I also happen to know what I'm talking about is completely incidental to your position.

Here are sources that support my definition:

"In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" (p2w) games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay."
- Wikipedia

"Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)."
- Urban Dictionary

"When money provides an objectively better experience when playing, meaning that if the purchasable content creates a noticeable distinction between the haves and the have-nots.

“Better Experience” includes in game advantages, stronger in game gear or anything that makes the paying players stand above the free players.
This is especially a major deal in games with competitions or PVP play."
- Game-Wisdom

You can find an article on the subject here: https://allods.my.com/forum/index.php?page=Thread&postID=72663

For reference, i have been in the industry for the better part of 17 years. I have played ESO since beta.

Technically, one source. As the bulk of that is copied verbatim from the post you linked. In 17 years, I would have hoped you'd be able to quickly, and efficiently, articulate your own positions regarding P2W, rather than simply regurgitating a forum post from two years ago, while engaging in borderline plagiarism. (I say, "borderline," because, while you did cite the original post, you attempted to present the text as if these were multiple, independent, sources.) If you'd wrapped the entire mess in quote tags, it would have been no big deal, but as written, not so much.

For example, here are some of my thoughts on plagiarism.

The definitions provided are fine. They're not your definition, but that's academic at the moment. More than that, your vampire example does not fit them.

Buying a bite from the store is not substantially faster than obtaining a bite from another player, or being in the right place, at the right time, to obtain a natural infection. As a result, normal players do in fact, have access to that advantage without extensive grinding.

More than that, Vampirism isn't, really, an upgrade. Yes, depending on who you're interacting with, you may be left with the impression that Vampirism will make you more powerful. That's not entirely true. It can be useful, if applied correctly, however far more often, the game of internet telephone reduces it down to, "vampires are meta!" without a critical thought, or any idea how to apply it to a build.

The Game-Wisdom definition is somewhat dubious, because it's excessively broad. Following that definition to the letter would make normal content expansions Pay to Win, simply for the sake of them being added. For example, that would classify Vvardenfell as Pay to Win, because it provides an improved and refined play experience, over content outside of that zone, with a similar argument for Clockwork City owing, exclusively, to the unique aesthetics. Arguing that those elements are pay to win is farcical. The intent is sound, but the test, as written, is unusable.

Were Battlegrounds Pay to Win when they were introduced, because they were paywalled and provided a superior small scale PvP experience? Game Wisdom's definition says yes.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

So, by your definition if Zos sells the best gear in the store which would make a character very likely to win in pvp etc., then it's not pay to win so long as there is a chance, however small, that someone with less means could obtain the item in game.

Cool, awesome. I hope i can buy VMA weapons in the store at some point so i don't have to play the content.

If you're hoping a vMA bow will be your key to victory in PvP... I've got some bad news for you. The Destro staves are alright, but you'd be far better off with a Perfected Asylum staff for PvP.

Now, if ZOS did choose to start selling endgame gear in the store, then sure, accusing them of P2W would be entirely reasonable. But that's a hypothetical that hasn't occurred, and almost certainly won't.

As a developer you should be entirely familiar with the idea that some players will gleefully classify everything and anything behind a paywall as P2W if they want it. I mean, these boards have had people calling the Frostcaster motif Pay to Win. That Game-Wisdom definition sounds suspiciously like an attempt to justify those arguments.

So, no, if you have a position that isn't based in hypotheticals, or your own definition, I'd invite you to share it. Though, at this point, I'll admit, it would be a little suspect.

Regarding Plagiarism. I never once posted anything from the article I cited as being something I wrote myself. I clearly referenced the article and included quotes from that articles sources. Plagiarism is writing something and passing it off as your own writing. That was not the case. I do not appreciate being called a liar just because you do not agree with my point of view.

You, literally, copy and pasted the post, committing the first paragraph, then cited the source as "an article." That's plagiarism.

Wrong. I referenced the quotes from that article & cited the article as the source.

You dispute that the post in question consisted primarily of the exact same text that you posted, and attempted to claim as your own research?

Because that's plagiarism.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

Good Lord man. If you cannot put forth a convincing argument for your supposition than just give up. Attacking my character and reaching to accuse me of plagiarism is really sad.

No, I'm accusing you of copying "your" collection of Pay to Win definitions from a forum post in 2016, which includes the exact same quotes, in the exact same order.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

For reference: Plagiarism is passing off writing from someone else as your own. This is remedial English.

It is, but you're being reductive. You see, Plagiarism isn't just taking someone's writing. It's taking their intellectual work and passing it off as your own. After all, if it was only writing, you couldn't plagiarize art, or films, or music, or academic research. But, you can, and people do.

You can find the full definition if you sniff around.

And, in this case, credit goes to Mr. "Quinz" of the Allods Online boards. He compiled the text you copied, right down to the typographic elements. That was his work, not yours. (Or, "her's," if their profile pic is of someone else.)

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

I simply posted quotes from an article and cited the source of the quotes.

No, you posted, a quote of quotes, without proper attribution. Instead of saying something to the effect of, "oh, hey, Quinz compiled a list of definitions," it was, "here's a few of my definitions of P2W, and oh, hey, here's an 'article' with more info." That's not proper attribution. It's plagiarism.

You didn't come up with this list. You didn't pick those quotes. You simply found someone else and copied their work. Trust me, I've seen enough of this from college freshmen.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

So, you made your assertion, that paying for weapons and/or skill lines to have power over someone else is not pay to win. I disagree.

I never said that. In fact, what I said was that gear would (probably) be pay to win, but it's not for sale, so this at best a hypothetical argument.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

You retort that I am just flat out wrong.

It's not so much that you're flat out wrong, as that your arguments have consisted of a misunderstanding of game mechanics, which, while understandable, doesn't really do you much credit, and argument that amounts to, "if wishes were horses, I'd be right about one thing." Well, they're not, and you're not.

ZOS is not selling gear in the store. So, crying about how that would be pay to win is irrelevant.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

You support "your" argument by asserting that you simply watched developers over the years and you feel strongly that you are right.

No, I support it by having a degree in media analysis, and years of examining the industry from an analytical perspective, bolstered by a CIS degree. So, yeah, I kinda understand what I'm talking about. Which makes one of us.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

When you run out of arguments you make personal attacks by accusing me of theft.

Then, maybe you shouldn't have gone with the control C/V route. Or, you know, simply attributed the entire quote block to Quinz in the first place.

That's the irony here. If you'd gone the route of saying, "hey, here's some stuff from this guy you don't know, I'd still have poked you on the substance a bit, but it wouldn't be, "hey, you stole this thing."

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

If you are out of actual arguments I will accept victory now. Thanks.

Victory? Really. Yeah, you might have had a better shot at that if you'd demonstrated an understanding of Pay to Win systems. An understanding of how The Elder Scrolls Online works. Basic familiarity with the contents of the Crown Store. And some communication skills.

Now, I'll give you the same advice I gave the poor kid who posted the opening of their novel in my inbox last year. You're lucky. You're lucky because you got caught here, where the stakes are relatively low. You get caught pulling this crap in your day job (assuming you're actually in the industry), or on that indy title you're hoping to sneak onto Steam? That's your career, and possibly a nasty lawsuit. Don't do it.

Sing along, "write it in your words."

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

@Gnozo

You're right at jewellery traits, something I never wrote because I know this already but since you made it sound like non dlc players can't get asylum weapons, when a non dlc player can still get asylum weapons during eso+ free weeks I assumed you didn't know.

Also its jewellery or jewelry depending if you want to use UK or US spelling, didn't mention it the first time incase it was a typo but you did it again so thought I'd let you know.

I still stand by my point that anyone calling dlc p2w is dumb

Edited to remove quotes because phone quoted 100 things

I think it was kinda clear that i was talking about juwelry Transmutation that it can only be aquired with summerset chapter. And you said that this argument is weak cause i can use Transmutation stations without summerset.

And i also saw what you wrote before your edit and you cant learn the traits in an eso plus weekend cause chapters are not part of eso plus.

Oh and sorry about spelling . I dont care if its juwelry or juwellry. Since everyone knows what i mean its not really important. Also english is not my native language.

I don't think 2.4kish (I can't remember how much each trait gives) stam instead of 2.4k hp is p2w, yes one will have more damage but the other will be tankier. The one with more health can build fury stacks safer to get their damage quicker? So your dueling point is still weak. Robust rings =/= auto win.


Yes i was wrong summerset is the only thing not included in eso+, the other chapter morrowind is

I love how you say you don't care about spelling then use "english is not my native language" to try defend yourself when everything else you're saying is fine so obviously shows you care.

It's impossible to have a civilised argument with someone so ignorant that they can't accept they are wrong + ignore they're wrong (when I mentioned asylum weapons) and make excuses for their mistakes when advice is offered (native language)

DanteYoda wrote: »

Pay to win is paying for anything that players cannot receive in game.. This includes level progress and anything that advances a character in a leveling game imo..

P2W has evolved over time and is no longer just power.

I think this is the key thing in this thread.

Pay to win is not the only thing devs now do. Most in fact don’t do pay to win. They do pay for convenience. It used to br paying to win or paying for cosmetics, now the big earners are pay for convenience.

Riding lessons in eso fall in this category. Buying crystals or what ever in mobile games, so you don’t have to wait to earn them naturally, is also the same.

Pay for convenience bypasses time gates or gets past limited time availability.

To me this is not harmful in any way.

There are two broad groups of players these days. Those that are time rich and those that are cash rich. Many transition from the first to the latter as they get older.

Games companies know this, they also know that those people with money still enjoy games every bit as much as they did when they had less rl money and more rl time.

It makes a lot of sense and keeps those players happy.

The only issue is for those that don’t understand how this works and see it as invalidating thier time rich advantages.

It’s not going to change either, as the devs themselves will likely follow the same pattern and have less time and more money. Also the cold hard truth is that the older cash rich players make a company far more money than they did before they became cash rich.

Paying for convenience boosts a companies revenue far more than any previous pay to method.

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

@Gnozo

You're right at jewellery traits, something I never wrote because I know this already but since you made it sound like non dlc players can't get asylum weapons, when a non dlc player can still get asylum weapons during eso+ free weeks I assumed you didn't know.

Also its jewellery or jewelry depending if you want to use UK or US spelling, didn't mention it the first time incase it was a typo but you did it again so thought I'd let you know.

I still stand by my point that anyone calling dlc p2w is dumb

Edited to remove quotes because phone quoted 100 things

I think it was kinda clear that i was talking about juwelry Transmutation that it can only be aquired with summerset chapter. And you said that this argument is weak cause i can use Transmutation stations without summerset.

And i also saw what you wrote before your edit and you cant learn the traits in an eso plus weekend cause chapters are not part of eso plus.

Oh and sorry about spelling . I dont care if its juwelry or juwellry. Since everyone knows what i mean its not really important. Also english is not my native language.

I don't think 2.4kish (I can't remember how much each trait gives) stam instead of 2.4k hp is p2w, yes one will have more damage but the other will be tankier. The one with more health can build fury stacks safer to get their damage quicker? So your dueling point is still weak. Robust rings =/= auto win.


Yes i was wrong summerset is the only thing not included in eso+, the other chapter morrowind is

I love how you say you don't care about spelling then use "english is not my native language" to try defend yourself when everything else you're saying is fine so obviously shows you care.

It's impossible to have a civilised argument with someone so ignorant that they can't accept they are wrong + ignore they're wrong (when I mentioned asylum weapons) and make excuses for their mistakes when advice is offered (native language)

On purple each juwelry gives you 840 stamina. This is 2520 in general. Giving you more damage and more healing and even more sustain since you have a higher stampool to throw skills out.

This is a big advantage over healthy rings. Every competetive pvp player knows it.

I can give more examples. I want to run bone pirate + advancing yokeda on my stamsorc. And i want to run medium armor. For this i need to have at least 1 healthy juwelry otherwise i wont get 5 medium armor on Body. With summerset i can get full robust.

Also i cant get triune trait on for example bone pirate and yokeda. Triune is really strong because of the max magicka for my utility skills.

You can say a lot. Still Access to Juwelry Crafting makes your build stronger then the same build without juwelry crafting.

Someone running healthy jewellery can run max stam +stam regen food instead of food that gives health but i guess that's blasphemy

Edit - I agree jewellery crafting can make a build stronger, you can give someone the best pve gear but if they don't know how to play they'll still be 10k dps, you can give them a solid pvp build but will still die to resource guards if they don't know how to play. Jewellery crafting doesn't make you some God like player that is untouchable by people without it. It's not p2w

Hibernato wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

@Gnozo

You're right at jewellery traits, something I never wrote because I know this already but since you made it sound like non dlc players can't get asylum weapons, when a non dlc player can still get asylum weapons during eso+ free weeks I assumed you didn't know.

Also its jewellery or jewelry depending if you want to use UK or US spelling, didn't mention it the first time incase it was a typo but you did it again so thought I'd let you know.

I still stand by my point that anyone calling dlc p2w is dumb

Edited to remove quotes because phone quoted 100 things

I think it was kinda clear that i was talking about juwelry Transmutation that it can only be aquired with summerset chapter. And you said that this argument is weak cause i can use Transmutation stations without summerset.

And i also saw what you wrote before your edit and you cant learn the traits in an eso plus weekend cause chapters are not part of eso plus.

Oh and sorry about spelling . I dont care if its juwelry or juwellry. Since everyone knows what i mean its not really important. Also english is not my native language.

I don't think 2.4kish (I can't remember how much each trait gives) stam instead of 2.4k hp is p2w, yes one will have more damage but the other will be tankier. The one with more health can build fury stacks safer to get their damage quicker? So your dueling point is still weak. Robust rings =/= auto win.


Yes i was wrong summerset is the only thing not included in eso+, the other chapter morrowind is

I love how you say you don't care about spelling then use "english is not my native language" to try defend yourself when everything else you're saying is fine so obviously shows you care.

It's impossible to have a civilised argument with someone so ignorant that they can't accept they are wrong + ignore they're wrong (when I mentioned asylum weapons) and make excuses for their mistakes when advice is offered (native language)

On purple each juwelry gives you 840 stamina. This is 2520 in general. Giving you more damage and more healing and even more sustain since you have a higher stampool to throw skills out.

This is a big advantage over healthy rings. Every competetive pvp player knows it.

I can give more examples. I want to run bone pirate + advancing yokeda on my stamsorc. And i want to run medium armor. For this i need to have at least 1 healthy juwelry otherwise i wont get 5 medium armor on Body. With summerset i can get full robust.

Also i cant get triune trait on for example bone pirate and yokeda. Triune is really strong because of the max magicka for my utility skills.

You can say a lot. Still Access to Juwelry Crafting makes your build stronger then the same build without juwelry crafting.

Someone running healthy jewellery can run max stam +stam regen food instead of food that gives health but i guess that's blasphemy

Most stam builds using Dubios. Giving max health, max stam and stam recovery.

Why and what food would you use on healthy juwelry?

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Recipe:+Lava+Foot+Soup-And-Saltrice

Okay, that does make sense.

I should probably use that on my Imperial Stam DPSs, now that you point it out.

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

@Gnozo

You're right at jewellery traits, something I never wrote because I know this already but since you made it sound like non dlc players can't get asylum weapons, when a non dlc player can still get asylum weapons during eso+ free weeks I assumed you didn't know.

Also its jewellery or jewelry depending if you want to use UK or US spelling, didn't mention it the first time incase it was a typo but you did it again so thought I'd let you know.

I still stand by my point that anyone calling dlc p2w is dumb

Edited to remove quotes because phone quoted 100 things

I think it was kinda clear that i was talking about juwelry Transmutation that it can only be aquired with summerset chapter. And you said that this argument is weak cause i can use Transmutation stations without summerset.

And i also saw what you wrote before your edit and you cant learn the traits in an eso plus weekend cause chapters are not part of eso plus.

Oh and sorry about spelling . I dont care if its juwelry or juwellry. Since everyone knows what i mean its not really important. Also english is not my native language.

I don't think 2.4kish (I can't remember how much each trait gives) stam instead of 2.4k hp is p2w, yes one will have more damage but the other will be tankier. The one with more health can build fury stacks safer to get their damage quicker? So your dueling point is still weak. Robust rings =/= auto win.


Yes i was wrong summerset is the only thing not included in eso+, the other chapter morrowind is

I love how you say you don't care about spelling then use "english is not my native language" to try defend yourself when everything else you're saying is fine so obviously shows you care.

It's impossible to have a civilised argument with someone so ignorant that they can't accept they are wrong + ignore they're wrong (when I mentioned asylum weapons) and make excuses for their mistakes when advice is offered (native language)

On purple each juwelry gives you 840 stamina. This is 2520 in general. Giving you more damage and more healing and even more sustain since you have a higher stampool to throw skills out.

This is a big advantage over healthy rings. Every competetive pvp player knows it.

I can give more examples. I want to run bone pirate + advancing yokeda on my stamsorc. And i want to run medium armor. For this i need to have at least 1 healthy juwelry otherwise i wont get 5 medium armor on Body. With summerset i can get full robust.

Also i cant get triune trait on for example bone pirate and yokeda. Triune is really strong because of the max magicka for my utility skills.

You can say a lot. Still Access to Juwelry Crafting makes your build stronger then the same build without juwelry crafting.

Someone running healthy jewellery can run max stam +stam regen food instead of food that gives health but i guess that's blasphemy

Most stam builds using Dubios. Giving max health, max stam and stam recovery.

Why and what food would you use on healthy juwelry?

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Recipe:+Lava+Foot+Soup-And-Saltrice

This is giving you 4500 stam and 460 recovery.
Dubios: 3200 stam, 320 stam rec and 3500 health.

Healthy juwelry + Lava Foot Soup:
4500 Stam
460 Recovery
3x 935 health = 2805 Health

Robust Juwelry + Dubios:
3200 + 3x 840 stam = 5720 stam
3500 Health
320 Stam rec

I dont know if i did math correctly tbh. Did it fast in my work break.

Wouldn't call extra 1.2k max stam extra 700hp and 140 less regen p2w, especially since you still need to play the game to earn it all and not buy it directly from Crown store

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hibernato wrote: »

@Gnozo

You're right at jewellery traits, something I never wrote because I know this already but since you made it sound like non dlc players can't get asylum weapons, when a non dlc player can still get asylum weapons during eso+ free weeks I assumed you didn't know.

Also its jewellery or jewelry depending if you want to use UK or US spelling, didn't mention it the first time incase it was a typo but you did it again so thought I'd let you know.

I still stand by my point that anyone calling dlc p2w is dumb

Edited to remove quotes because phone quoted 100 things

I think it was kinda clear that i was talking about juwelry Transmutation that it can only be aquired with summerset chapter. And you said that this argument is weak cause i can use Transmutation stations without summerset.

And i also saw what you wrote before your edit and you cant learn the traits in an eso plus weekend cause chapters are not part of eso plus.

Oh and sorry about spelling . I dont care if its juwelry or juwellry. Since everyone knows what i mean its not really important. Also english is not my native language.

I don't think 2.4kish (I can't remember how much each trait gives) stam instead of 2.4k hp is p2w, yes one will have more damage but the other will be tankier. The one with more health can build fury stacks safer to get their damage quicker? So your dueling point is still weak. Robust rings =/= auto win.


Yes i was wrong summerset is the only thing not included in eso+, the other chapter morrowind is

I love how you say you don't care about spelling then use "english is not my native language" to try defend yourself when everything else you're saying is fine so obviously shows you care.

It's impossible to have a civilised argument with someone so ignorant that they can't accept they are wrong + ignore they're wrong (when I mentioned asylum weapons) and make excuses for their mistakes when advice is offered (native language)

On purple each juwelry gives you 840 stamina. This is 2520 in general. Giving you more damage and more healing and even more sustain since you have a higher stampool to throw skills out.

This is a big advantage over healthy rings. Every competetive pvp player knows it.

I can give more examples. I want to run bone pirate + advancing yokeda on my stamsorc. And i want to run medium armor. For this i need to have at least 1 healthy juwelry otherwise i wont get 5 medium armor on Body. With summerset i can get full robust.

Also i cant get triune trait on for example bone pirate and yokeda. Triune is really strong because of the max magicka for my utility skills.

You can say a lot. Still Access to Juwelry Crafting makes your build stronger then the same build without juwelry crafting.

Someone running healthy jewellery can run max stam +stam regen food instead of food that gives health but i guess that's blasphemy

Most stam builds using Dubios. Giving max health, max stam and stam recovery.

Why and what food would you use on healthy juwelry?

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Recipe:+Lava+Foot+Soup-And-Saltrice

This is giving you 4500 stam and 460 recovery.
Dubios: 3200 stam, 320 stam rec and 3500 health.

Healthy juwelry + Lava Foot Soup:
4500 Stam
460 Recovery
3x 935 health = 2805 Health

Robust Juwelry + Dubios:
3200 + 3x 840 stam = 5720 stam
3500 Health
320 Stam rec

I dont know if i did math correctly tbh. Did it fast in my work break.

Wouldn't call extra 1.2k max stam extra 700hp and 140 less regen p2w

It gives you a stronger build. Ans thats my pain point.

You cant deny it. The build is stronger when you pay money. Thats the definition of p2w.

Paying real money to get access to things that make your euipment stronger than players who dont payed.

I disagree since you have to play content, if it was like you buy some crowns, enter the crown store and boom your builds automatically stronger then I'd agree game is p2w but it's not like that.

If you think this is p2w every game that has dlc is p2w since all dlc come with something nice that can't be obtained in base games, especially an mmorpg where the most common sort of dlc are new raids/area that drops new gear

I disagree with everyone who says this is p2w because there are people who buy this content and can't complete it so they paid money, wheres their W?


EDIT - it gives you less regen so it's not 100% stronger @ your first point