What is P2W (pay to win)

generalmyrick · August 2018

What is P2W (pay to win)?

Answers quoted from local debate! @PrinceDamien and @DuskMarine

Ragebull · August 2018

Aren’t the 2 options the same thing?

Cpt_Teemo · August 2018

I think it really has multiple meanings to people that play mmo's usually only originally meant where you can buy the top end gear without working for it but now a days its anything that can get ahead in game where it gives you an advantage over someone else that needs to spend the time to get there.

DivineFirstYOLO · August 2018

This stupid P2W debate again... ESO is NOT P2W, just get over it.

TheStealthDude · August 2018

Pay2win is when there is something available to pay real money for that gives you an advantage when COMPETING against another player.

The competing part is important, because of the "win" part of "pay2win". If the thing you buy isn't giving you a direct advantage when fighting another player, it isn't pay to win. Examples of "advantages" that aren't pay2win: extra storage space, motifs, exp boosts.

The other part of "pay2win" is the "pay" part. The advantage gained must be exclusive to outside payment. If you can get the advantage without paying for it in game (even if it takes a little longer to get), it's not pay2win.

Hope that helps.

Lysette · August 2018

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

I think it really has multiple meanings to people that play mmo's usually only originally meant where you can buy the top end gear without working for it but now a days its anything that can get ahead in game where it gives you an advantage over someone else that needs to spend the time to get there.

It never was like this - neither the first nor the last of your options. Pay 2 win is just for significant advantages, which one can buy, but which cannot be acquired or achieved by a non-paying player in any other way in the game.

Gnozo · August 2018

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

huschdeguddzje · August 2018

Items that are trough no other means available than purchase that alter gameplay in anyway

dennissomb16_ESO · August 2018

P2W is like describing what a zerg is. There will be 3 million different descriptions (maybe only 2 million) to shortly follow. For many paying for anything beyond the actual game is considered P2W.

For me I would limit P2W to anything along the lines of buying an actual competitive advantage. Example if you could simply buy a weapon that was better then anything you could obtain by playing the game I would consider P2W.

Getting things like riding lessons, vamp bites etc. may make the game easier/faster but in the end does not really give any advantage above other players I do not consider P2W

TheStealthDude · August 2018

Really, the only things that are slightly "pay2win" in this game are the Psijic Order skill line and the warden class. Both are locked behind paid DLCs and could provide a small advantage in direct competition with other players who can't access it in game for free. The Psijic skill line more so than the Warden (if you believe that the classes are relatively balanced).

Honestly, that isn't too bad and far from making ESO a horrible "pay2win" game.

Enemoriana · August 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

Lysette · August 2018

TheStealthDude wrote: »

Really, the only things that are slightly "pay2win" in this game are the Psijic Order skill line and the warden class. Both are locked behind paid DLCs and could provide a small advantage in direct competition with other players who can't access it in game for free. The Psijic skill line more so than the Warden (if you believe that the classes are relatively balanced).

Honestly, that isn't too bad and far from making ESO a horrible "pay2win" game.

And even that is questionable - if you do not buy the whole game, this is not by default a disadvantage via pay2win - you just did not buy the whole game, so you cannot expect to get the benefits of the whole game. Along this line with your argumentation it would be pay2win to be ESO+ already - whereas I see this as paying for the whole game and not just part of it.

tunepunk · August 2018

DLC's and expansions are pay to win!!!!

People who don't pay don't get access to those skill lines and set items!!!!

Jokes aside.

but if ZoS released an expansion where some sets were significantly better than options you can't acquire in the base game, I would say that it would be Pay to Win, or raised CP cap only for people who had a certain expansion I would say that is pay to win.

XP scrolls are not pay to win, it only allows you to level somewhat faster than not using them. If you think XP scrolls are pay to win I bet some people could even argue that ESO plus and pocket merchant/banker could be pay to win, because the amount of time you have to spend clearing your bags of mats and banking would be a time sink that you otherwise could spend on gaining XP and skills etc.

Gnozo · August 2018

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?

Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?

Let me Show you an example:

2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.

The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.

Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.

No p2w? Really?

Asardes · August 2018

In the context of gaming I would define it as being able to directly buy items that give you a large competitive advantage over other players, which are not otherwise obtainable in game.

Let's take Asylum destruction staff:
- Imperfect: Concentrated Force: Every third cast of Force Shock will always apply the Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects. The Force Shock casts must be made within 10 seconds of each other for this effect to occur.
- Perfect: Concentrated Force: Every third cast of Force Shock will always apply the Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects. The Force Shock casts must be made within 10 seconds of each other for this effect to occur.
- Crown: Force Shock will always apply the Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects and stun the enemy for 3s.

PvP the 3rd option will be quite obviously P2W if introduced in crown store or crates.

Simply buying content that allows you to obtain items which are considered slightly stronger in some context when compared to others, but do require (most times substantial) effort to get cannot be considered P2W. Otherwise:
- Imperial City would be considered P2W because you can get Spell Power Cure (META set for Healer, on par with Olorime)
- Orsinium would be considered P2W because you can get Maelstrom weapons which are good for various roles
- Thieves Guild would be considered P2W because you can get Roar of Alkosh from vMoL (META set for tanking)
- Shadows of the Hist would be considered P2W because you can get Amber Plasm (very good PvP magicka set)
etc.

Which is clearly absurd because it would dilute the term to the point of irrelevance.

Another category are convenience items obtained in crown store or trough subscription. For example stuff like craft bag or double bank space simply make inventory management measurably easier, but don't make you stronger in either PvE or PvP. Neither does the 10% XP bonus, granted by subscription.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · August 2018

Pay to win is when you can get something that is ONLY available through an additional purchase that gives a unique advantage over others. If the same thing can be earned in-game, then it is not pay to win.

For example, if ESO were to release a new gear set that is obviously OP and unobtainable through any means other than the Crown Store, that would be pay to win.

Cosmetics, shortcuts, convenience items, and consumables ARE NOT pay to win, because all of those items either 1) don't affect your ability to play competitively, or 2) can be obtained for no real-money cash transactions in-game (and in the case of the consumables, player-made consumables are actually better than Crown Store offerings like potions, food/drinks, and poisons).

Don't get mad at people because they don't want to grind as much - that isn't P2W. You could get mad if people were buying new skill lines that provided clear advantages, however (to those who would point at Morrowind and Summerset as gating skill lines, skill points, and even a class back in the day, every MMO has expansions which include these things - it's part of the model of a functioning MMO).

Lysette · August 2018

Ok, jewelry crafting is a point where one could say, this is a significant benefit - but ... is there a way to get that item in any other way in the game?- That ring isn't bound, is it?- So you could get it crafted by a friend?

Sylosi · August 2018

TheStealthDude wrote: »

Pay2win is when there is something available to pay real money for that gives you an advantage when COMPETING against another player.

The competing part is important, because of the "win" part of "pay2win". If the thing you buy isn't giving you a direct advantage when fighting another player, it isn't pay to win. Examples of "advantages" that aren't pay2win: extra storage space, motifs, exp boosts.

The other part of "pay2win" is the "pay" part. The advantage gained must be exclusive to outside payment. If you can get the advantage without paying for it in game (even if it takes a little longer to get), it's not pay2win.

Hope that helps.

Some of the most infamous P2W games out there let you get the advantageous items in game, they simply put such a ridiculous level of grind / rng on it that realistically it is only option for someone who plays the game as their full time job (plus is a bit "special" in the head).

White wabbit · August 2018

Lol

Enemoriana · August 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?

Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?

Let me Show you an example:

2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.

The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.

Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.

No p2w? Really?

You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.

Gnozo · August 2018

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?

Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?

Let me Show you an example:

2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.

The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.

Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.

No p2w? Really?

You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.

Dude what?

Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.

I am waiting.

Sergykid · August 2018

to those who say that vma weapons or sets from HoF or MoL are not pay to win because they're part of the game:
how am i supposed to get those if i don't pay? must pay for them = pay to have them. These items are better = pay to have something better.

mostly ESO is pay2skiptime but with small exceptions some good items must be bought with cash, but not directly.
Another exception can be the free ESO+ week when you have access to those without paying, so i can say that ESO is just a bit and not really win

Lysette · August 2018

Well just to be able to buy better gear or skills is not per se pay2win - when I look at EVE for example, someone could possibly get all the skills which one could just acquire within about 25 years - buy simply buying enough skill injectors. Will this make him a winner?- Certainly not, he can fly the best ships, but it is highly likely that he will find himself on the loser side of a killmail pretty quick. To be able to buy better gear does not necessarily make you a winner - so p2w is always debatable.

Edit: ok, EVE is different in that you will actually loose something if you loose - which is not the case with ESO.

JKorr · August 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?

Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?

Let me Show you an example:

2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.

The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.

Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.

No p2w? Really?

You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.

Dude what?

Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.

I am waiting.

Might be an advantage.

However, while you do have to buy the chapter to be able to craft rings, the crafted rings aren't bound to the crafter. And as far as I know, you don't have to own the chapter to *use* the rings. No reason you can't ask a crafter to make whatever rings/necklace you want.

Gnozo · August 2018

JKorr wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?

Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?

Let me Show you an example:

2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.

The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.

Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.

No p2w? Really?

You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.

Dude what?

Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.

I am waiting.

Might be an advantage.

However, while you do have to buy the chapter to be able to craft rings, the crafted rings aren't bound to the crafter. And as far as I know, you don't have to own the chapter to *use* the rings. No reason you can't ask a crafter to make whatever rings/necklace you want.

Fury is a dropped set. And without summerset i cant transmute healthy fury rings into robust.

Lysette · August 2018

JKorr wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?

Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?

Let me Show you an example:

2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.

The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.

Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.

No p2w? Really?

You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.

Dude what?

Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.

I am waiting.

Might be an advantage.

However, while you do have to buy the chapter to be able to craft rings, the crafted rings aren't bound to the crafter. And as far as I know, you don't have to own the chapter to *use* the rings. No reason you can't ask a crafter to make whatever rings/necklace you want.

Yeah, that was my point, there is a way to acquire that item as well without having to pay for the chapter.

Edit. ok I stand corrected - ignore this post please.

Enemoriana · August 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?

Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?

Let me Show you an example:

2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.

The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.

Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.

No p2w? Really?

You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.

Dude what?

Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.

I am waiting.

Not all "advantage" is "P2W". Paying for DLC is same as paying for base game. So it's P2W only if buying base game is P2W - and that's stupid to call it so.

Gnozo · August 2018

Lysette wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?

Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?

Let me Show you an example:

2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.

The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.

Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.

No p2w? Really?

You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.

Dude what?

Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.

I am waiting.

Might be an advantage.

However, while you do have to buy the chapter to be able to craft rings, the crafted rings aren't bound to the crafter. And as far as I know, you don't have to own the chapter to *use* the rings. No reason you can't ask a crafter to make whatever rings/necklace you want.

Yeah, that was my point, there is a way to acquire that item as well without having to pay for the chapter.

Edit. ok I stand corrected - ignore this post please.

Gnozo wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?

Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?

Let me Show you an example:

2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.

The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.

Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.

No p2w? Really?

You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.

Dude what?

Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.

I am waiting.

Might be an advantage.

However, while you do have to buy the chapter to be able to craft rings, the crafted rings aren't bound to the crafter. And as far as I know, you don't have to own the chapter to *use* the rings. No reason you can't ask a crafter to make whatever rings/necklace you want.

Fury is a dropped set. And without summerset i cant transmute healthy fury rings into robust.

Lysette · August 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?

Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?

Let me Show you an example:

2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.

The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.

Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.

No p2w? Really?

You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.

Dude what?

Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.

I am waiting.

Might be an advantage.

However, while you do have to buy the chapter to be able to craft rings, the crafted rings aren't bound to the crafter. And as far as I know, you don't have to own the chapter to *use* the rings. No reason you can't ask a crafter to make whatever rings/necklace you want.

Yeah, that was my point, there is a way to acquire that item as well without having to pay for the chapter.

Edit. ok I stand corrected - ignore this post please.

Gnozo wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.

But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?

Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?

Let me Show you an example:

2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.

The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.

Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.

No p2w? Really?

You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.

Dude what?

Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.

I am waiting.

Might be an advantage.

However, while you do have to buy the chapter to be able to craft rings, the crafted rings aren't bound to the crafter. And as far as I know, you don't have to own the chapter to *use* the rings. No reason you can't ask a crafter to make whatever rings/necklace you want.

Fury is a dropped set. And without summerset i cant transmute healthy fury rings into robust.

yeah, i saw this too late, Gnozo, that is why I wrote "I stand corrected".

BNOC · August 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w

For me, eso is heavily p2w.

Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.

Those are DLC's that give you the ability to equip those items - That's not P2W.

That's like saying that buying any expansion on WoW is P2W because the level cap went up.

As a side note: we also know how weak Magdens are.

DLC's cannot be considered P2W.

Bring in a 1-set piece to the store that gives 5k all stats or food/drinks that have 50% increased stats to their gold, craftable counterparts - Now we're talking about some real P2W examples.

idk · August 2018

The difference between the two main option is so negligible that the poll is pointless even for entertainment.

The definition for P2W is so established it’s not needed anyhow. It’s beinf able to directly purchase items that make you more powerful in game than one can become from what is in game already.

The Elder Scrolls Online

What is P2W (pay to win)

What is P2W (pay to win) 319 votes