Roar of Alkosh and Lunar Bastion

ankeor · August 2018

Maybe you are like me and hate the fact(actually it's just my opinion but since no other opinion matters...) there is no set in MoL a stamina player would like to have and also the heavy armor set there is is inferior to most of the sets tanks use.

BUTT WHY?

There many reasons we can discuss here but I just want to talk about my ideas that can fix irritating "FACT"

We will rewamp them. YES! You've heard it right. Here is bright idea.

New "Roar of Alkosh" is a heavy set now. Every piece of set you own will turn into heavy pieces. Untransmuted jewelry traits will become healty. Sorry for stam players who use alkosh(if any of you exist) and enjoy it. But ZOS does not care, nor do I.

Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(3 items) Gain Minor Aegis at all times, reducing your damage taken from Dungeon and Trial Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(5 items) When you activate a synergy, you send a soundwave from your position that reduces the Physical and Spell Resistance of any enemy hit by 3010 for 10 seconds.

A simple fix. We made 2-4 bonuses tanky and remove the damage from 5th piece.

New Lunar Bastion set renamed as "Lunar Eclipse" and is a medium set now. Every piece of set you own will turn into medium pieces. Untransmuted jewelry traits will become robust. If you tell me that you are using Lunar Bastion set as it is right now, I don't believe you.

(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon and Trial Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you activate a synergy, you gain the light of eclipse for 10 seconds. If you deal direct damage for 10 times you unleash the light of eclipse, granting you and 2 nearby allies 400 weapon damage for 20 seconds. This can occur every 30 seconds.

Well I thought so much about this. I wanted it to be available to every stam class and not make one class broken compared to others. But if you see a problem in the 5th bonus just give me your opinions and we can discuss.

Here are my ideas. Are they good? Or bad? Or missing something? Tell me if you like them or not and why you think that way.

PS: Sorry for my imperfect English.

Tasear · August 2018

Let's talk about this more. Why doesn't the lunar bastion or roar of alkoash work as they were intended?

Dubhliam · August 2018

Well, Lunar Bastion is actually not a bad set, but rather very situational.
It is better than a pure selfish set that only benefits the tank, but still... as (good) tanks can tank any content in literally anything, offensive sets will always take priority over defensive sets.

The only instances where defensive sets such as Lunar Bastion get any use are situations like score runs on vHRC The Warrior fight or no death vMoL runs.

The Roar of Alkosh is a great set, but ZOS didn't expect the tanks to take it over, making it not wanted on any DD.

If it wasn't usable on tanks, it would be the meta stamina set in every trial group, just like Sunderflame and Night Mother were before the nerf.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2018

I dont think the set ideas are necessarily bad, but I just dont see them redesigning trial sets that are over 2 years old, nor do I want them wasting the resources on such an endeavor. At one point, alkosh was used by stam DPS. Lunar bastion is pretty blah, but we have had 3 batches of trial sets since these. Also, try as ZOS might, end-game score pushing tanks just dont wear traditional tank sets at end game.

Also, I dont care how niche a set is, you need to be really careful about fundamentally changes sets that have been around this long. Adjusting bonuses is one thing, but automatically changing weights and traits is quite another.

ankeor · August 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Let's talk about this more. Why doesn't the lunar bastion or roar of alkoash work as they were intended?

Lunar Bastion now

(5 items) When you activate a synergy, you create a lunar blessing underneath you for 10 seconds. The blessing grants a damage shield every 2 seconds that absorbs 2399 damage for you and your allies within 8 meters.

I think this works as intended but it's not that good. Range is 8 meters. Only melee dds can benefit from it but again shields often used against huge incoming damages and this set gives small damage shields. And many other sets overperform it.

Roar of Alkosh now

5 items) When you activate a synergy, you send a shockwave from your position that deals 1720 Physical Damage and an additional 12040 Physical Damage over 10 seconds. Reduces the Physical and Spell Resistance of any enemy hit by 3010 for 10 seconds.

First it requires to use a synergy every 10 seconds. Its best trait is the debuff itself so if 1 dd uses it, that's enough. More than 1 means group damage loss. Then again even 1 tank can maintain higher uptime then 2 dds.

Or that's what I think.

paulsimonps · August 2018

ankeor wrote: »

Maybe you are like me and hate the fact(actually it's just my opinion but since no other opinion matters...) there is no set in MoL a stamina player would like to have and also the heavy armor set there is is inferior to most of the sets tanks use.

BUTT WHY?

There many reasons we can discuss here but I just want to talk about my ideas that can fix irritating "FACT"

We will rewamp them. YES! You've heard it right. Here is bright idea.

New "Roar of Alkosh" is a heavy set now. Every piece of set you own will turn into heavy pieces. Untransmuted jewelry traits will become healty. Sorry for stam players who use alkosh(if any of you exist) and enjoy it. But ZOS does not care, nor do I.

Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(3 items) Gain Minor Aegis at all times, reducing your damage taken from Dungeon and Trial Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(5 items) When you activate a synergy, you send a soundwave from your position that reduces the Physical and Spell Resistance of any enemy hit by 3010 for 10 seconds.

A simple fix. We made 2-4 bonuses tanky and remove the damage from 5th piece.

New Lunar Bastion set renamed as "Lunar Eclipse" and is a medium set now. Every piece of set you own will turn into medium pieces. Untransmuted jewelry traits will become robust. If you tell me that you are using Lunar Bastion set as it is right now, I don't believe you.

(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon and Trial Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you activate a synergy, you gain the light of eclipse for 10 seconds. If you deal direct damage for 10 times you unleash the light of eclipse, granting you and 2 nearby allies 400 weapon damage for 20 seconds. This can occur every 30 seconds.

Well I thought so much about this. I wanted it to be available to every stam class and not make one class broken compared to others. But if you see a problem in the 5th bonus just give me your opinions and we can discuss.

Here are my ideas. Are they good? Or bad? Or missing something? Tell me if you like them or not and why you think that way.

PS: Sorry for my imperfect English.

I like this idea, but while I dislike Lunar Bastion for its weak effect, its visual is amazing. I would have the new Lunar Eclipse be more like it in visual style, have it use the AoE and give the buff to your allies through that, maybe even lower the strength of it in favor of giving it to more people. Maxing/limiting it to 6 people would be more in line with other sets and skills and would be more valued in Trial fights. As well maybe something other than Weapon Damage could be given, its a common buff and other sets already work in similar fashion, maybe critical chance? or increase cooldown and have it be major beserk? You got options, but the base idea is something I support. Make the sets reflect how we want to use them.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I dont think the set ideas are necessarily bad, but I just dont see them redesigning trial sets that are over 2 years old, nor do I want them wasting the resources on such an endeavor. At one point, alkosh was used by stam DPS. Lunar bastion is pretty blah, but we have had 3 batches of trial sets since these. Also, try as ZOS might, end-game score pushing tanks just dont wear traditional tank sets at end game.

Also, I dont care how niche a set is, you need to be really careful about fundamentally changes sets that have been around this long. Adjusting bonuses is one thing, but automatically changing weights and traits is quite another.

ZOS has not been too afraid to change old sets that the majority of people did not use, and changing Alkosh to Heavy would be for the better for any tank using it. If it was then if you do it right you could still wear 5 heavy even in an Alkosh+Powerful Assault set up, which would be awesome. But yea, we have recently seen a lot of changes to existing sets, we should not be afraid to suggest changes to existing set that under perform or barely gets used cause of its performance

Eso101rus · August 2018

Alkosh has been adopted by tanks but in reality IT IS still a dps set and by making it heavy may benefit some but further pushes it away from what it was intended for. From the set bonuses only the 5th piece is reason why a tank would opt for it and it could be likely that as cp allocation is increased it is less likely to be ‘optimal’ on a tank.

paulsimonps · August 2018

Eso101rus wrote: »

Alkosh has been adopted by tanks but in reality IT IS still a dps set and by making it heavy may benefit some but further pushes it away from what it was intended for. From the set bonuses only the 5th piece is reason why a tank would opt for it and it could be likely that as cp allocation is increased it is less likely to be ‘optimal’ on a tank.

Then lets change what they are intended for. That is kinda what OP is suggesting. Would remove this argument about what Alkosh is or is not intended for and why some people think tanks should not run it. While its original intentions were to be a Stamina DPS set its far more better designed for a tank so changing the rest to fit with its main effect is a good idea at this point. Then change the almost non used Lunar Bastion to something that better fits a Stamina DPS.

Eso101rus · August 2018

paulsimonps wrote: »

Eso101rus wrote: »

Alkosh has been adopted by tanks but in reality IT IS still a dps set and by making it heavy may benefit some but further pushes it away from what it was intended for. From the set bonuses only the 5th piece is reason why a tank would opt for it and it could be likely that as cp allocation is increased it is less likely to be ‘optimal’ on a tank.

Then lets change what they are intended for. That is kinda what OP is suggesting. Would remove this argument about what Alkosh is or is not intended for and why some people think tanks should not run it. While its original intentions were to be a Stamina DPS set its far more better designed for a tank so changing the rest to fit with its main effect is a good idea at this point. Then change the almost non used Lunar Bastion to something that better fits a Stamina DPS.

Or maybe people could adapt and show a little more diversity instead of running around like sheep. It makes no sense to drastically change a set into something which would become a copy n paste 1 way for all set up. Maybe Zos could look into sets with these ideas as possible future dropped sets, but changing sets so that congregation of one way sheep getting bigger smacks diversity right in the face in my opinion.

Mojmir · August 2018

Minor aegis is the problem. Its not that good.
Make it "reduce cost of defensive skills by 5%"

Wifeaggro13 · August 2018

Dubhliam wrote: »

Well, Lunar Bastion is actually not a bad set, but rather very situational.
It is better than a pure selfish set that only benefits the tank, but still... as (good) tanks can tank any content in literally anything, offensive sets will always take priority over defensive sets.

The only instances where defensive sets such as Lunar Bastion get any use are situations like score runs on vHRC The Warrior fight or no death vMoL runs.

The Roar of Alkosh is a great set, but ZOS didn't expect the tanks to take it over, making it not wanted on any DD.

If it wasn't usable on tanks, it would be the meta stamina set in every trial group, just like Sunderflame and Night Mother were before the nerf.

That is inherently the bad side of ZOS combat design its primarily a DPS meta-design with very little thought or creativity into other aspects of combat.

Qbiken · August 2018

If Lunar Bastion could stack it´s own shield each tick it would be quite a nice set actually. But unfortunately it can´t....

Got one of the best visual animations in the game tho

code65536 · August 2018

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

That is inherently the bad side of ZOS combat design its primarily a DPS meta-design with very little thought or creativity into other aspects of combat.

There you go again with that nonsense.

First, there is a good defensive support set that you'll see present in virtually every group: Ebon.

Second, the objective of all combat games is to kill your enemy, so of course DPS will be important, as it is in every other game in the universe where you need to kill an enemy. Stop treating that as some sort of design aberration.

Finally, the reason why tanks wear offensive support sets is because they don't need the defenses from defensive sets, not because of that "DPS meta" nonsense that you love touting in all your posts. And this is not for a lack of effort from ZOS--every trial, they add new and creative ways to kill players and test the limits of player survivability. People shed defensive sets because they get better at the game and at that content. For example, every tank was wearing Plague Doctor when vHoF first came out. Now that players are more experienced and familiar with vHoF, hardly anyone uses that set there. Defensive sets are shed because people get better at the content. If the content was so punishing that an elite group with a year's worth of experience still need to be super-defensive, then that content will be too punishing and unclearable by most groups.

code65536 · August 2018

As for making Alkosh a heavy set, it is possible to do so without affecting existing pieces and only affecting new drops. ZOS did this when they mistakenly made Night Mother's Embrace a heavy set (leaving Deshaan with two heavy overland sets and no medium sets). When they made that set medium, the change affected only new drops. (I still have a number of heavy NME pieces--they are quite the rarity these days.)

That said, I don't think it's worth revisiting this thing that's now approaching 2.5 years in age. The time to revamp it was during the Maw PTS, when the numerous feedback about the heavy set being lackluster were unheeded.

The weight of Alkosh is really a non-issue, since players don't run body pieces in anyway.

Gallagher563 · August 2018

Instead of fighting how sets and the game is played ZOS should embrace the changes that have happened. Trying to force sets to be used how they were designed, ZOS should update sets to how they are used.

Facefister · August 2018

Its too bad that nearly all tanking sets are useless in trials. High defensive tanks should also be able to contribute to the group.

ankeor · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

The weight of Alkosh is really a non-issue, since players don't run body pieces in anyway.

Why tanks do not use Alkosh body pieces? The reason is the weight of the set.

code65536 · August 2018

ankeor wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The weight of Alkosh is really a non-issue, since players don't run body pieces in anyway.

Why tanks do not use Alkosh body pieces? The reason is the weight of the set.

If the tank is also running Ebon, then Alkosh weapons are required because Ebon must never be used in weapon slots due to quirks with how that set behaves during barswaps, even if double-barred.
If the tank is not running Ebon, Alkosh weapons are still desirable because Alkosh is a great candidate for a single-bar setup, allowing the tank flexibility to optionally run a weapon set on their non-Alkosh bar
If the tank is running another heavy dropped set (e.g., Ebon), then Alkosh being a medium set allows a 6H/1M setup where the player makes the most diminutive piece (the waist) a medium Alkosh piece.
Gold-quality Alkosh jewelry is easy and cheap to acquire for anyone who can clear vMoL because of the guarantee of golden jewelry pieces at the end of the trial, whereas getting gold-quality jewelry of other sets would be more difficult or expensive.

Yes, heavy Alkosh armor would bring more options to the table. But these are options that most endgame tanks will not exercise even if it were available to them. Alkosh being medium is really a non-issue.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

That is inherently the bad side of ZOS combat design its primarily a DPS meta-design with very little thought or creativity into other aspects of combat.

There you go again with that nonsense.

First, there is a good defensive support set that you'll see present in virtually every group: Ebon.

Second, the objective of all combat games is to kill your enemy, so of course DPS will be important, as it is in every other game in the universe where you need to kill an enemy. Stop treating that as some sort of design aberration.

Finally, the reason why tanks wear offensive support sets is because they don't need the defenses from defensive sets, not because of that "DPS meta" nonsense that you love touting in all your posts. And this is not for a lack of effort from ZOS--every trial, they add new and creative ways to kill players and test the limits of player survivability. People shed defensive sets because they get better at the game and at that content. For example, every tank was wearing Plague Doctor when vHoF first came out. Now that players are more experienced and familiar with vHoF, hardly anyone uses that set there. Defensive sets are shed because people get better at the content. If the content was so punishing that an elite group with a year's worth of experience still need to be super-defensive, then that content will be too punishing and unclearable by most groups.

No true CC, no true pulling abilities no real group mitigation abilities all secondary effect as to bluffs or DPS abilities. They shed defensive sets as they increase in cp ,not due to skill they longer need the extra health, mitigation and such. Sorry but really enjoyed group dynamics that at least required true cc , pulling techniques that were player knowledge of mechanics, healing and buffing that required more than throwing them out while your dpsing, . This has nothing to do with difficulty it has to do with actual content creation, combat mechanics and such. Tanks should be defensive not a DPS with a taunt.

code65536 · August 2018

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

They shed defensive sets as they increase in cp ,not due to skill they longer need the extra health, mitigation and such.

So why did we go from Plague in vHoF to no Plague in the course of a single patch? There was no CP increase. And it's not like the 30 extra CP per patch really does that much anyway.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Sorry but really enjoyed group dynamics that at least required true cc , pulling techniques that were player knowledge of mechanics, healing and buffing that required more than throwing them out while your dpsing, . This has nothing to do with difficulty it has to do with actual content creation, combat mechanics and such. Tanks should be defensive not a DPS with a taunt.

Maybe you should try tanking some of the newer content. It's true that the old launch-era content doesn't offer much for tanks to bite into. But you can't say the same about much of the new content.

DuskMarine · August 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Let's talk about this more. Why doesn't the lunar bastion or roar of alkoash work as they were intended?

roar of alkosh a dps can run just fine and do quite alot of damage. but bastion.........that set has been garbage since it came out which is saddening.

ankeor · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

ankeor wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The weight of Alkosh is really a non-issue, since players don't run body pieces in anyway.

Why tanks do not use Alkosh body pieces? The reason is the weight of the set.

If the tank is also running Ebon, then Alkosh weapons are required because Ebon must never be used in weapon slots due to quirks with how that set behaves during barswaps, even if double-barred.

If the tank is not running Ebon, Alkosh weapons are still desirable because Alkosh is a great candidate for a single-bar setup, allowing the tank flexibility to optionally run a weapon set on their non-Alkosh bar

If the tank is running another heavy dropped set (e.g., Ebon), then Alkosh being a medium set allows a 6H/1M setup where the player makes the most diminutive piece (the waist) a medium Alkosh piece.

Gold-quality Alkosh jewelry is easy and cheap to acquire for anyone who can clear vMoL because of the guarantee of golden jewelry pieces at the end of the trial, whereas getting gold-quality jewelry of other sets would be more difficult or expensive.

Yes, heavy Alkosh armor would bring more options to the table. But these are options that most endgame tanks will not exercise even if it were available to them. Alkosh being medium is really a non-issue.

The thing I do not like about MoL is that there is nothing a stamina player would like/need to have for any situation. Just read the first sentence I have written in this post. Reworking Alkosh's 5th bonus completely would make many tank players go mad because it's a great set when a tank uses it. Since the Lunar Bastion is not that great either and no one(i bet) uses it, my suggestion here is to switch their weights and rework Lunar Bastion into a stamina set. This not a "Alkosh should be this" post. I just think that while MoL offers nothing to 1 of 4 roles, players completely ignore 1 of 4 sets MoL offers.

DuskMarine · August 2018

@ankeor actually roar of alkosh has a use for stamina dps(my group has a guy that runs it) it allows our tank to roll dragonguard or something better that can buff us actually better than alkosh can and can give them actually better sustain and survivability. you can still pull great numbers with roar of alkosh.

Dubhliam · August 2018

I am certain that when, or rather IF, ZOS ever makes one good "must have" set for maintanking trials, Alkosh will simply get bumped back to it's original intended use:
a stam DD support set.

DuskMarine · August 2018

Dubhliam wrote: »

I am certain that when, or rather IF, ZOS ever makes one good "must have" set for maintanking trials, Alkosh will simply get bumped back to it's original intended use:
a stam DD support set.

it already is a dd set you dont need it on a tank. theres some people still running very old setups and still rolling very high damage. you dont always need alkosh on your tanks.

Tyrobag · August 2018

It was not intended to be this way, Alkosh was meant as a dps set and lunar was meant to be the tank set. I personally find it cool and interesting that something used outside of its intended purpose ended up becoming so main stream. I think it should stay as is.

Bowser · August 2018

Let's be real here. Tanks are the only ones that use alkosh and the set bonuses are worthless for tanks. Just change it to heavy armor and give it aegis, max health and physical resist.

SilverWF · August 2018

Lol, sounds likes someone from ZOS was care to run their own game in the 1st time and finally realized how the things works in real
Can't stop laugh

P.S. Never used any trial sets on my tank and my tank is awesome.

WhitePawPrints · August 2018

I think Lunar Bastion just needs a slight buff. Maybe give resistances buffs in addition to the shields. AOE buff to allies of Major Resolve would be nice.

Another idea would be Minor Protection for 8% damage mitigation to all allies. Might be too strong since that’d definitely take priority over a lot of other other tanking sets.

Combat Prayer already gives that Critical damage buff, Minir Force I think it’s called. That was another idea but doesn’t seem very beneficial to groups.

Maybe an increased healing buff would make the most group utility.

I thought about a Maim debuff to enemies but Minor Maim is already always up by tanks and Major Maim would be too strong.

SilverWF · August 2018

As for med armor...
Who the hell needs anything if we have relequen?

code65536 · August 2018

ankeor wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

ankeor wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The weight of Alkosh is really a non-issue, since players don't run body pieces in anyway.

Why tanks do not use Alkosh body pieces? The reason is the weight of the set.

If the tank is also running Ebon, then Alkosh weapons are required because Ebon must never be used in weapon slots due to quirks with how that set behaves during barswaps, even if double-barred.

If the tank is not running Ebon, Alkosh weapons are still desirable because Alkosh is a great candidate for a single-bar setup, allowing the tank flexibility to optionally run a weapon set on their non-Alkosh bar

If the tank is running another heavy dropped set (e.g., Ebon), then Alkosh being a medium set allows a 6H/1M setup where the player makes the most diminutive piece (the waist) a medium Alkosh piece.

Gold-quality Alkosh jewelry is easy and cheap to acquire for anyone who can clear vMoL because of the guarantee of golden jewelry pieces at the end of the trial, whereas getting gold-quality jewelry of other sets would be more difficult or expensive.

Yes, heavy Alkosh armor would bring more options to the table. But these are options that most endgame tanks will not exercise even if it were available to them. Alkosh being medium is really a non-issue.

The thing I do not like about MoL is that there is nothing a stamina player would like/need to have for any situation. Just read the first sentence I have written in this post. Reworking Alkosh's 5th bonus completely would make many tank players go mad because it's a great set when a tank uses it. Since the Lunar Bastion is not that great either and no one(i bet) uses it, my suggestion here is to switch their weights and rework Lunar Bastion into a stamina set. This not a "Alkosh should be this" post. I just think that while MoL offers nothing to 1 of 4 roles, players completely ignore 1 of 4 sets MoL offers.

So? That's true for most content. If all you care about is gear, then there's no reason for a stamina player to ever touch any of the DLC dungeons, except maaaaaybe Fang Lair.

And what about sets like Twilight Remedy? It's a set that was never widely used and is now rendered useless by the Psijic skill line. Or any of the laughable support sets from HoF? Or most of the weapons that drop from Asylum?

There are 331 sets in this game, and most of them are garbage. And you know what? That's just fine--I don't think it's really feasible or practical to make every set great and useful--there just aren't that many useful things that can be done. Of course, I'm not opposed to updating sets to make them more useful. But not if that kind of update comes at a substantial cost.

This idea of yours to make Alkosh a heavy set (which is something that no tanks are asking for) and completely scrapping and reworking Lunar Bastion is something that has a substantial cost and will be disruptive. And for what? To update gear from content that's 2.5 years old when there are dozens of other worthless sets that could be updated instead with minimal disruption?

At the end of the day, people should run content for the content. Not for the gear. If your only motivation to step into MoL is the quality of its stamina set, then you have bigger issues than whether or not a stamina DPS set was co-opted by tanks.