Zhaedri wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Zhaedri wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Zhaedri wrote: »

Been playing for a couple years now. Good to know that I must be absolute trash as I can't pull more than 15k single target, and apparently have no business going into dungeons or doing content to get better gear than my crafted purples.

Maybe I should just quit since I am so useless, and not even good enough to pug. Everything I have tried and every build I have used has not improved my output.

@Zhaedri , tell us a little more about your class, race, gear (including traits and enchantments), skill bars, CP allocation, mundus stone, food/drink, and rotation. There’s absolutely no reason (short of serious physical disability) why any damage dealer who is committed to improving their DPS should find themselves stuck at 15k. Your damage output is great for normal dungeons, where you can acquire better gear than your crafted gear, but it’s going to drag your group down if you’re completing veteran dungeons (especially vet DLC and story mode 2 dungeons).

Please don’t view this response as an insult, because it’s not. The so-called “elitists” more often than not genuinely want to help anyone with low DPS to improve, because the more players we help, the better veteran dungeon pugs will be for EVERYONE.

Sorry for my INCREDIBLY LATE reply. I don't check the forums as often as I once did.

I'm running a dunmer stamsorc (I like the whoosh-woosh of dual wield, what can I say?). CP 508.

For Armor/weapons I am running (all purple w/ purple enchants; armor is divines w/ stam enchant) 5 pc Night Mother's Gaze, 4 pc Hunding's Rage, 2 daggers (precise trait, absorb stam), 1 bow (precise, absorb stam). Jewelry is 3 pc Agility set, purple, stam recovery + robust trait.

Mundus stone is the Thief. Food is 'Garlic Cod with Potato Crust' (increases max health and stam, scales CP 150-CP 160); I used to go with Dubious Camoran Throne (inc health, stam, stam regen) but wasn't having too many issues with stam regen so went with something that had greater bonuses to health/stam.

My ability points are 10 in health, 54 in stam (even so, my base health is just under 12k without buffs).

CP allocation: The Lover 120 (40 mooncalf, 40 tenacity, 40 healthy), The Shadow 49 (30 shade, 19 tumbling... I will get treasure hunter eventually!), The Atronach 89 (40 Physical Weapons Expert, 49 Master At Arms), The Ritual 80 (40 Piercing, 40 Precise Strikes), The Steed 170 (35 Ironclad, 40 Spell Shield, 45 Resistant, 40 Medium Armor Focus).

Skills: Front Bar: Deadly Cloak, Rending Slashes, Rapid Strikes, Whirling Blades, Dark Deal... Ult is WW Berserker. Back Bar is Critical Surge, Poison Injection, Endless Hail, Trap Beast, Bound Armaments... Ult is Rapid Fire (couldn't decide what morph so left it). WW bar has all the WW stuff on it.. Pounce, Hircine's Bounty, Roar, Piercing Howl, Infectious Claws.

My rotation is really situational... the mix of ranged and close combat and an aoe and dot on each bar lets me solo most overland stuff, delves, and some public dungeons. I generally buff up with crit surge, and open with laying the dots down and then doing aoe/single target burst damage until it's dead, closing from range to switch to rapid strikes. Trap beast isn't working as well as I would like and is only in there because someone told me to put it in there since I have no access to caltrops to slow down targets.. I almost never use it though.

I've pretty well long given up doing group content as most will just tell me I am trash and not bother to help, or the ones I ask for help just tell me to google it or throw a bunch of gear that I cannot get without already being good/skill stuff from pvp which I am also no good at... Several have outright said 'go magsorc', and a few have told me to just reroll as something else since I am 'useless' at my current class. I really appreciate you willing to take a look at this mess and not be a jerk about it. I love this character and her being stuck as my crafter/thief and mats gatherer is sad when I -want- to be able to go do group content confidently and do stuff with my friends.

Edited to add:

I don't queue for vet. I feel garbo as it is for normal mode, and have no idea how people can get such high numbers. Every time I hear what looks like a high number to me, I feel even more trash about playing... as that eventuality of MAYBE getting to do vet stuff and trials gets moved further and further away... along with making new pve friends, getting the rewards like furnishing items, skins, motifs, personalities, etc. I have actually been kicked from NORMAL dungeons for saying "Hi! I haven't done this one before, can we do the quest?" or "Hi! I don't know this dungeon, this is my first time here."

I used to raid in another game. I know not to stand in stupid. I can follow directions for mechanics and appreciate anyone that can instruct me on them. I know to only queue for the role I can/am willing to play. I know not to jump ahead of the tank or make things hard on the healer. I'm not a jerk in group chat... rude people and trash talk really stresses me out, so I avoid that entirely (and have dropped groups that do it in the past).

I once joined a PVE guild that claimed to help people... but was totally lost in the roster and did not get any assistance or get to do any pve stuff with them. I left after two months, realizing I had no connection to anyone there and that my requests for assistance were getting ignored.

No problem re: the delayed response, @Zhaedri . I'm guessing you're on PC? If you were on PS4, I'd help you through some normal dungeons to get you the gear you need. What you're wearing right now is okay for normal dungeons, but you really need some dungeon or overland drops to get to the next level, and then some trials drops. Normal trials are easy, so once you feel comfortable in normal dungeons, that'll be the next step for you.

In any case, some suggestions that might help in the meantime:

Race:

For damage dealers, race unfortunately does matter (more so than it does for tanks or, to a lesser extent, healers). Dunmers are better suited to magicka builds, as their passives buff max magicka and flame/frost/shock damage. You would see an improvement if you were to either re-build your character as a magsorc, or purchase a race change token and switch to a stamina oriented race, like Redguard. If you don't want to change races or roll a magsorc, there are certainly other changes you can make to do more damage. Just be aware, though, that you'll never get as much damage out of the character as you possibly could.

Gear:

What you're wearing right now is acceptable for normal content, but you really should start trying to work on getting some dungeon drops and a monster set. A decent starter combination of crafted gear and drops would be something like 5 pc Strength of the Automaton (3 jewellery, 2 body), 5 pc Hundings Rage, and 2 pc Stormfist or Selene. Automaton drops from Darkshade Caverns, the Stormfist helm drops from vet Tempest Island, and the Selene helm drops from vet Selene's Web. Stormfist/Selenes shoulders are a random drop from Undaunted chests. Since it'll probably still be a while until you feel comfortable enough with your DPS to do vet dungeons and pledges, what you could possibly try doing instead is keeping your Agility jewellery, farming Darkshade for 5 Automaton body pieces, and filling the gaps with Hunding's Rage. Since 2H weapons count for two set pieces now, that will give you two five piece bonuses and the three piece bonus from Agility. Also, an easy vet helm to aim for once you feel ready to start moving to more of a meta gear setup is Kraghs (gives some nice penetration), which you can get from vet Fungal Grotto 1.

All of your armour should be divines and purple quality irrespective of the sets you use, with at least 5 medium pieces (ideal setup with Undaunted passives is 5 medium, 1 light, 1 heavy, but it'll be a while before you hit Undaunted rank 10, so for now, 5 medium and 2 heavy or 7 medium would be fine). Your weapons should be purple at the very least, gold for max DPS. Your bow could either be nirnhoned or sharpened with a disease damage glyph (or any other damage-oriented glyph, as you'd ideally like to use damage health poisons on your back bar), and your daggers should be one nirnhoned/sharpened with a poison damage glyph, and one precise with a weapon damage glyph. Stam return glyphs are garbage for DPS, as you will get better stam return from racial passives, food/drink, and CP.

If you want to stick with what you've got, that's okay too, but at the VERY least change the glyphs on your weapons, re-craft them with better traits, and gold them out if possible.

Skills:

You're going to have to do a little bit of PVP if you want to get the most out of a stamina damage dealer. Dealing effective damage is all about damage over time and your rotation. Caltrops is an unquestionable must-have for any stamina damage dealer, as it is the most effective DOT skill at your disposal. You don't have to go to Cyrodiil to get Caltrops, though; you can run quick Battlegrounds (they take about 10 mins max) and you earn alliance points even if you lose. No one has any big expectations of you in Battlegrounds, and even if they do, meh. You're just there for Caltrops, so who cares what they think? It doesn't take long at all to hit the rank you need to unlock Caltrops. When you do get it, level it up ASAP so you can morph it to Razor Caltrops.

I don't know much about Werewolf; what I do know is that they're generally better for PVP than they are for PVE. No serious stam damage dealers I know run Werewolf. It's up to you if you want to use Werewolf form in dungeons, but do keep in mind that there are better options and you might get auto-booted for using Werewolf (too many bad experiences with Werewolves who deal poor damage in dungeons gets to some people). Hunt around on YouTube for some PVE Werewolf builds if you do want to stick with it.

One bar skill combo you could try (and keep in mind that there are better options once you master light attack weaving) is the following:

DW: Rending Slashes, Deadly Cloak, Shrouded Daggers, Hurricane (absolute must have for stam sorc -- it's your bread and butter), Bound Armaments, Flawless Dawnbreaker (and make sure you have the Fighters Guild passive that increases weapon damage for each FG skill equipped).

Bow: Endless Hail, Rearming Trap, Poison Injection, Razor Caltrops, Bound Armaments, Ballista (WAY better morph of Rapid Fire than Toxic Barrage, because you don't have to stay on your bow bar until it finishes).

Until you get Caltrops, you could slot something like Crit Surge or Dark Deal. I can't emphasize enough, though, how important Caltrops is to stamina DPS.

Rotation:

The meta rotations right now are focused on light attack weaving, as stam sorcs no longer get a buff for heavy attack weaving. However, since you're still learning, heavy attack weaving on your DW bar may be easier for you to manage when you're starting out. It would also help you with stamina sustain. One relatively easy rotation (which I used on my PVP stam sorc while I was grinding out Undaunted Ranks) you could try is this:

Pre-buffs: Deadly Cloak + Hurricane (always try to keep Hurricane up, but refresh it just before it expires!)

Main rotation:

Bow bar: Endless Hail --> Light Attack (LA) --> Rearming Trap --> LA --> Poison Injection --> LA --> Caltrops --> Weapon Swap
DW bar: Heavy Attack (HA) --> Rending Slashes --> HA --> Deadly Cloak --> HA --> Shrouded Daggers --> HA --> Hurricane --> Weapon Swap --> LA

Repeat until boss is dead. For trash pulls before bosses, activating Deadly Cloak and Hurricane before doing just your bow bar rotation will usually be enough in normal dungeons.

CP Allocation and Attributes:

Your current CP setup isn't as good as it could be. You're occasionally investing into areas that do nothing for you (e.g. Resistant is for PVP crit resistance, and you're a PVE damage dealer -- there's no crit damage dealt to you in PVE).

Try following Alcast's CP recommendations for 300 CP (https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-sorcerer-build-pve/) as a base line, and then add your remaining points into other constellations included in the CP 750 setup (e.g. Master-at-Arms and Physical Weapon Expert). It's kind of tough to optimize your CP for you when I'm not sure what you'll be wearing, but this will at least give you a very basic idea. You'll also be better off when you stop spending points on useless things like Resistant, Healthy, and Medium Armour Focus.

Attributes: all stamina, so long as your health with food sits at 16-17k or higher. You'd probably be better off sticking with your current food, as it should give you enough health to get to that 16k minimum.

Sorry for being long-winded, but hopefully it's clear enough to follow. Keep in mind that my recommendations aren't going to take you to 30k plus, but they should hopefully at least push you over the 20k mark, which is fine for easier vet dungeons. 30k plus with your class/race combo would require access to gear that might be unrealistic for you to attain right now, like certain monster sets, and dungeon/trial sets. Focus on the stuff you can easily change now (e.g. CP allocation, weapon glyphs, skill setups) and acquire gear at your own pace. Most importantly, start practicing your rotation on a dummy, and start working towards getting Caltrops. As I said, Battlegrounds are a relatively painless way to level up your Alliance ranks, and once you have Caltrops, you never have to touch PVP again.

Keep in mind, too, that even if you suddenly were to gain access to 750 CP and best in slot trial gear overnight, you won't go from 15k DPS to 35K+ DPS in a single day without a good rotation and lots of practice. Just keep at it, and try not to get discouraged. I struggled too, at first, and got kicked from dungeons -- we all do. And then we get better.

Thanks!! This is the most in depth help I have EVER received. I really appreciate you taking the time to help with this, and I will definitely be making the immediate changes. I've been nervous to do battlegrounds, but if the expectations are low, I will definitely check them out.. I might actually enjoy them (who knows!)

adriant1978 wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Now do it without Zaan and Siroria. The assertion was that 30k needed just DoTs, AoE, and spammable. No mention of trials gear or proc sets.

It’s without food and no eledrain (a true pug experience )Zaans is about 3k of that 33k parse. The difference between sioria and a crafted set like Julianos isn’t some massive difference that’s going to add 20k to the 10k dps people are talking about here. The op is correct, in Summerset a lot of classes can now hit 30k with just Light attacks, aoes/dots, and ults.

I never said that your DPS would be 10k without those sets, but I think it wouldn't be 30k either.

Challenge is still open to anyone who wants to post a 30k parse from just "literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spammable and popping ult when ready" with no Minor Slayer, endgame proc set, etc.

If you people want us who struggle to get near 30k to feel like *** then you need to show that it really is possible with skill alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qUStUbskcI

Smasherx74 wrote: »

So past few days I decided to start going on my healer toon, trying to get as many crystals as I possibly can to finish my PVE DPS build. I've came to the realization that most peoples DPS is damn near non-existent. As a DPS even a low cp20 dps without any AOE can manage to be pulled through on my back, I mean it's not like every dungeon requires 4 people to complete on vet, at least not the vanilla ones. So I never had an issue with people, I would never vote kick people out unless they were intentionally stupid. However now my minds changed, I'm absolutely fed up with it.

For the third day in a row on my healer, I get put into a veteran group with terrible DPS. One day despite maintaining minor berserk, minor and major resolve/ward, and keeping major breach applied all damn near 24/7, I was told I'm useless. The DPS was absolutely terrible despite me doing my best to keep their resources up, and keep the buffs/debuffs up, all while healing these people. The tank is doing absolutely nothing but standing there occasionally applying taunt, the DPS is spamming light attacks, and I'm told I'm useless. I don't have to say, I left that group I wasn't going to be criticized by a bunch of casuals who have little to no understanding of how the game work, I even went out of my way to explain to the DPS they needed an AOE ability, tried to explain to the Tank he had to aggro ads, did my absolute best to keep group alive yet I'm useless because "they didn't need heals".

Now today, another terrible group. DPS does literally no AOE, most likely pulling under 10k single target, they appear to have no rotation, they're not maintaining DoTs or buffs/debuffs. I'm sitting here watching these people play and just hoping to god they'll figure it out and pull in more DPS. They were both above cp160 this time, in fact one was near max level. Yet the DPS was still terrible, even if one DPS was somewhat competent at their role it would have been much faster, yet it wasn't. It was like the DPS were two brand new players with no idea what they're doing, they're struggling to cut down trash mobs, and on the final boss of banished cells they aren't listening to me about the bubbles, they keep killing the ads and when they dont kill the ads they let too many pile up, the tank is bringing the ads near the boss and letting a few run off. The DPS is so minuscule I as a WARDEN HEALER am the one having to destroy the orbs because their DPS is so *** low they couldn't even prevent the boss from healing.

It's an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE to roll as anything BUT a DPS now in days. Now I've always been the guy to go after whoever was slandering the baggage in the group. In fact as my main DPS the other day I had a cp20 dps with me who was doing no DPS at all, and he ended up getting locked out the final boss so I completed it myself with the tank and healer. They wanted to kick the guy for not knowing what hes doing and having low dps, but I defended him and gave him a basic rundown. But now, I'm tired of it. No more Mr. NicePUG. The past three days I've been put into a group with a bad DPS on my healer. And I'm not having it anymore, I understand 100% why people vote low levels and low DPS bad roles. It's because of the people I've been having to deal with these past few days. I'm aware there are low CP DPS that are actually competent and can pull out as much DPS as their gear will allow them to. But guess what? I'm not risking ti anymore, I'm not going to waste 30mins to an hour on a group that struggled to cut down trash mobs or follow basic mechanics.

So now, if you're a low CP, or just bad at the game in general and we're que'd together, I'm kicking you. If the group doesn't want to kick you then I'm finding a new one. If the entire group is bad/low CP, then I'm finding a new one. I'll wait my 15 minutes for a reque because YOU'LL still be on the first trash mob within that time frame. If people want to come onto the forums and *** and complain about being kicked from a group because they're a khajiit mage, low CP. or bad at the game then how about getting good, leveling up, and not using a *** build? It's really not hard, you can pull a bare minimum of 20k DPS with any class at any level. The only excuse is incompetence, there are plenty of public builds to base on one. There is plenty of information on how to pull more DPS. A tank or healer, they don't even have to help the group to finish a dungeon, sure it's extremely helpful to contribute resources and keep buffs/debuffs, but is it really needed? No. A DPS however, guess what if you can't do AOE damage it's not going to work. If you can pull a minuscule 20k single target dps, it's not going to work. Go role as a Healer or a Tank and get good at that, you'll get a group faster and you'll save people like me from having our time wasted on you not knowing how to play your role properly. The DPS in this game is the hardest role, a healer/tank can run through a dungeon just as quickly as a really good healer/tank, but a bad DPS cannot even compete with a good DPS. So please, if you're one of these people and reading this, LEARN TO DPS, get a build that you can at least pull 20k. You can even go around grabbing random sets and you'll manage to be a tolerable DPS. Just for the love of god stop this low DPS arguably FAKE DPS *** in ques.

When I'm the person of all people saying this, you know there's a problem.


Update: People who are missing the point here, this is a justification for why so called "elitists" do things such as kicking low CP players. The vast majority cause scenarios as stated above, after getting tired of this constantly happening I've decided that I too will do what many would consider "elitist" action. I'm not saying everyone should have the same build, im not saying you need to be max CP. I'm simply making the point due to the abundance of low CP and even medium CP players performing so poorly some vet dungeons are quite literally impossible, I'm personally going to kick/leave groups with bad and or low CP players. I'm expressing the fact I understand the perspective of your so called elitists, I used to be totally against it. However as I said, due to the abundance of people who just perform adequately enough, you will be kicked. The reason WHY these players and now myself will kick you is because of the majority of players at your level perform poorly. There is no reason to risk a dungeon wipe, and keep good DPS out of the que waiting for dozens of minutes to get into one despite it only going to take them a few minutes to complete the dungeon. If you can't learn, or put the time and effort into getting better, then you don't deserve that DPS spot. There are plenty of average to moderately good players who want that spot you're holding up. We have normal/vet dungeons for a reason, if you're constantly holding pugs back or getting wiped/kicked because of your lack of dps, then you are the one who is being the *** here. I've defended a lot of people and pulled them through on my back, but when it repeatedly happens there is only so much blame the person kicking them can take. The person who isn't performing well enough has to accept the blame at some point. You can't keep stealing money from your parents as a child, eventually you have to fess up and accept your fault. A great quote some of you may not know of: "If you make a mistake, if you understand why it was a mistake, it can always be fixed."

Splattercat_83 wrote: »

x5 Mothers sorrow, x5 Burning Spell Weave, x2 Valkyn Skoria. Spell power pots, with some purple gear, and not even running 5-1-1. Valkyn Skoria and Burning spell weave are proc sets, but far from endgame. I do have a Maelstrom inferno staff, but theres no way in nirn that it is giving me 9k - 10k+ dps. There is a video on youtube by Donwozi and he hits 47k with his magblade without a maelstrom staff. He is just using good old julianos and BSW, and Zaan (the only hard peice to get). You can negate the extra damage hes getting from zaan and hes still pulling 41k -43k.

Shadowmaster wrote: »

work on making sure you are light attacking after every skill

most people with resource issues aren't getting enough light or heavy attacks in

Jeremy wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

So past few days I decided to start going on my healer toon, trying to get as many crystals as I possibly can to finish my PVE DPS build. I've came to the realization that most peoples DPS is damn near non-existent. As a DPS even a low cp20 dps without any AOE can manage to be pulled through on my back, I mean it's not like every dungeon requires 4 people to complete on vet, at least not the vanilla ones. So I never had an issue with people, I would never vote kick people out unless they were intentionally stupid. However now my minds changed, I'm absolutely fed up with it.

For the third day in a row on my healer, I get put into a veteran group with terrible DPS. One day despite maintaining minor berserk, minor and major resolve/ward, and keeping major breach applied all damn near 24/7, I was told I'm useless. The DPS was absolutely terrible despite me doing my best to keep their resources up, and keep the buffs/debuffs up, all while healing these people. The tank is doing absolutely nothing but standing there occasionally applying taunt, the DPS is spamming light attacks, and I'm told I'm useless. I don't have to say, I left that group I wasn't going to be criticized by a bunch of casuals who have little to no understanding of how the game work, I even went out of my way to explain to the DPS they needed an AOE ability, tried to explain to the Tank he had to aggro ads, did my absolute best to keep group alive yet I'm useless because "they didn't need heals".

Now today, another terrible group. DPS does literally no AOE, most likely pulling under 10k single target, they appear to have no rotation, they're not maintaining DoTs or buffs/debuffs. I'm sitting here watching these people play and just hoping to god they'll figure it out and pull in more DPS. They were both above cp160 this time, in fact one was near max level. Yet the DPS was still terrible, even if one DPS was somewhat competent at their role it would have been much faster, yet it wasn't. It was like the DPS were two brand new players with no idea what they're doing, they're struggling to cut down trash mobs, and on the final boss of banished cells they aren't listening to me about the bubbles, they keep killing the ads and when they dont kill the ads they let too many pile up, the tank is bringing the ads near the boss and letting a few run off. The DPS is so minuscule I as a WARDEN HEALER am the one having to destroy the orbs because their DPS is so *** low they couldn't even prevent the boss from healing.

It's an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE to roll as anything BUT a DPS now in days. Now I've always been the guy to go after whoever was slandering the baggage in the group. In fact as my main DPS the other day I had a cp20 dps with me who was doing no DPS at all, and he ended up getting locked out the final boss so I completed it myself with the tank and healer. They wanted to kick the guy for not knowing what hes doing and having low dps, but I defended him and gave him a basic rundown. But now, I'm tired of it. No more Mr. NicePUG. The past three days I've been put into a group with a bad DPS on my healer. And I'm not having it anymore, I understand 100% why people vote low levels and low DPS bad roles. It's because of the people I've been having to deal with these past few days. I'm aware there are low CP DPS that are actually competent and can pull out as much DPS as their gear will allow them to. But guess what? I'm not risking ti anymore, I'm not going to waste 30mins to an hour on a group that struggled to cut down trash mobs or follow basic mechanics.

So now, if you're a low CP, or just bad at the game in general and we're que'd together, I'm kicking you. If the group doesn't want to kick you then I'm finding a new one. If the entire group is bad/low CP, then I'm finding a new one. I'll wait my 15 minutes for a reque because YOU'LL still be on the first trash mob within that time frame. If people want to come onto the forums and *** and complain about being kicked from a group because they're a khajiit mage, low CP. or bad at the game then how about getting good, leveling up, and not using a *** build? It's really not hard, you can pull a bare minimum of 20k DPS with any class at any level. The only excuse is incompetence, there are plenty of public builds to base on one. There is plenty of information on how to pull more DPS. A tank or healer, they don't even have to help the group to finish a dungeon, sure it's extremely helpful to contribute resources and keep buffs/debuffs, but is it really needed? No. A DPS however, guess what if you can't do AOE damage it's not going to work. If you can pull a minuscule 20k single target dps, it's not going to work. Go role as a Healer or a Tank and get good at that, you'll get a group faster and you'll save people like me from having our time wasted on you not knowing how to play your role properly. The DPS in this game is the hardest role, a healer/tank can run through a dungeon just as quickly as a really good healer/tank, but a bad DPS cannot even compete with a good DPS. So please, if you're one of these people and reading this, LEARN TO DPS, get a build that you can at least pull 20k. You can even go around grabbing random sets and you'll manage to be a tolerable DPS. Just for the love of god stop this low DPS arguably FAKE DPS *** in ques.

When I'm the person of all people saying this, you know there's a problem.


Update: People who are missing the point here, this is a justification for why so called "elitists" do things such as kicking low CP players. The vast majority cause scenarios as stated above, after getting tired of this constantly happening I've decided that I too will do what many would consider "elitist" action. I'm not saying everyone should have the same build, im not saying you need to be max CP. I'm simply making the point due to the abundance of low CP and even medium CP players performing so poorly some vet dungeons are quite literally impossible, I'm personally going to kick/leave groups with bad and or low CP players. I'm expressing the fact I understand the perspective of your so called elitists, I used to be totally against it. However as I said, due to the abundance of people who just perform adequately enough, you will be kicked. The reason WHY these players and now myself will kick you is because of the majority of players at your level perform poorly. There is no reason to risk a dungeon wipe, and keep good DPS out of the que waiting for dozens of minutes to get into one despite it only going to take them a few minutes to complete the dungeon. If you can't learn, or put the time and effort into getting better, then you don't deserve that DPS spot. There are plenty of average to moderately good players who want that spot you're holding up. We have normal/vet dungeons for a reason, if you're constantly holding pugs back or getting wiped/kicked because of your lack of dps, then you are the one who is being the *** here. I've defended a lot of people and pulled them through on my back, but when it repeatedly happens there is only so much blame the person kicking them can take. The person who isn't performing well enough has to accept the blame at some point. You can't keep stealing money from your parents as a child, eventually you have to fess up and accept your fault. A great quote some of you may not know of: "If you make a mistake, if you understand why it was a mistake, it can always be fixed."

The "vast majority" of times I've seen people kicked is usually done at the very start of the dungeon... before any fighting has even taken place... and solely on the basis of the player's CP levels.

This fantasy you are pushing (and that's what it is) that people are kicked for legitimate reasons due to laziness and incompetence just isn't the case. The kick feature on this game is abused at least 90% of the time.

I'm sorry you had a bad couple of days in the duty finder. It happens. But that in no way justifies the way others abuse the kick function on this game.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

LiberatorSam wrote: »

I mean, normal mode exist for a reason, don’t come to vet untill you get gud. The main problem is having fake dps is by far the worse, as dps is the most important role in a dungeon. If there is a fake/bad tank/healer, a good dps can tank and/or self heal to carry the team, if there are 2 fake/bad dps, a good healer or tank can...sit there and watch the dps slowly kill stuff.

Someone also said if we are that good why don’t we carry them? Well, having the ability to carry doesn’t mean having the willingness to carry, just like how you pay for skyreach carry, I will gladly carry you thru if you are willing to pay the rest of the team, if not, kick. If you are good at something, never do it for free.

As a tank, I've started to respond like this to fake tank threads. Low DPS is a far bigger issue for base game vet dungeons because there is a broken flowchart for roles.

Can you tank? You are a tank.
Can you heal? You are a healer.
Can't tank or heal? You are a DD, regardless of your ability to deal damage.

As a tank, I feel like my role is to facilitate others doing DPS since the only way to clear dungeons is to kill things. If 4 DPS can stay alive and get good DPS without my buffs, I am unnecessary.

When DPS sucks, I am there to make sure we don't wipe during the five minutes it takes to kill minor bosses with wet noodles.

That being said, I don't bail on groups before asking them if they are going to do hard mode. If they aren't (and it is a pledge), I am gone.