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This is why YOU get kicked for being low CP or bad at DPS/Heals/Tank

  • What_In_Tarnation
    What_In_Tarnation
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    @Merlin13KAGL Not meant to being rude to you. But you can read this thread again and back to see meme again. Some of players call OP being elitist/elitism and I find it iroinc cause of OP did want to help these players at first and now he got fed up cause of some low dps player don't wanna learn/communicated and make group work together. Some of players tell people should carry low dps in veteran dungeons, otherwise you're elitist. It's ironic again. And some of players in this thread tell OP stop using group finder and stop being a-holes. It's indeed iroinc as heck.
    Edited by What_In_Tarnation on July 9, 2018 1:18PM
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    @Merlin13KAGL Not meant to being rude to you. But you can read this thread again and back to see meme again. Some of players call OP being elitist/elitism and I find it iroinc. Some of players tell people should carry low dps in veteran dungeons, otherwise you're elitist. It's ironic again. And some of players in this thread tell OP stop using group finder and stop being a-holes. It's indeed iroinc as heck.
    @What_In_Tarnation, I totally agree with your assessment. My statement was simply in reference to your meme alone. ;)

    (I would find it more ironic if expecting a picture of an iron, and seeing a picture of anything else.)

    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • What_In_Tarnation
    What_In_Tarnation
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    @Merlin13KAGL Not meant to being rude to you. But you can read this thread again and back to see meme again. Some of players call OP being elitist/elitism and I find it iroinc. Some of players tell people should carry low dps in veteran dungeons, otherwise you're elitist. It's ironic again. And some of players in this thread tell OP stop using group finder and stop being a-holes. It's indeed iroinc as heck.
    @What_In_Tarnation, I totally agree with your assessment. My statement was simply in reference to your meme alone. ;)

    (I would find it more ironic if expecting a picture of an iron, and seeing a picture of anything else.)

    Ahh, ok, my apologies. Sorry, English isn't my primary language, so I think I was misunderstood what you meant there. Cheers. :)

    Edit: Just realized you still don't like my meme.
    Q09si0g.png
    Edited by What_In_Tarnation on July 9, 2018 1:47PM
  • Blackleopardex
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    Sophocles1 wrote: »
    I was very good in football but not so much in this game. It’s not as intuitive as some of you think. We are really trying even if we’re not as good as you. In football, I still would’ve let you play.

    You should probably have looked into how to replay to someone because this is not how you do it.... And that's my point.

    I did not say you should be as good as anyone and I'm sure this was not directed at you if you are really trying. Because I have seen dds running around cloaking, dodging and using skills that has nothing to do with dealing damage. Meaning they have 0 dps, also meaning they have no clue or just don't care about what their role is and what they are suppose to do.
    I mean If I came to a football game with a snowboard and tried to pick up the ball and trow it off the field and screaming 'strike one' I'm pretty sure i would not play for long before i was told to leave... Ofc this example is very extreme and unlikely but you did not catch the simple 'how to kick the ball' that should have been more then clear on how little I ask. You have no clue how many strange and ridicules things I have seen over the many many many random groups I had.. Many of them came out better players have a few directions and tips when they are open for it. I have soloed many lastboss fights in veteran dungeons and I'm happy to lead people in the right directions but I also would appreciate it when people take 5 minutes of their time to figure out what they are actually signing up for.
    Edited by Blackleopardex on July 9, 2018 3:02PM
    6 NB: Tank, Healer, Mag/Stam PVE&PVP.
    I don't read long signatures: https://www.youtube.com/user/Blackleopardex
  • ceil420
    ceil420
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    @Merlin13KAGL Not meant to being rude to you. But you can read this thread again and back to see meme again. Some of players call OP being elitist/elitism and I find it iroinc cause of OP did want to help these players at first and now he got fed up cause of some low dps player don't wanna learn/communicated and make group work together. Some of players tell people should carry low dps in veteran dungeons, otherwise you're elitist. It's ironic again. And some of players in this thread tell OP stop using group finder and stop being a-holes. It's indeed iroinc as heck.

    OP's not an elitist for calling out legitimately bad players - OP is an elitist because they're pre-judging and wanting to kick people before they've even done first trash pull based solely on CP or frickin' character race.
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    The past three days I've been put into a group with a bad DPS on my healer. And I'm not having it anymore, I understand 100% why people vote low levels and low DPS bad roles. It's because of the people I've been having to deal with these past few days. I'm aware there are low CP DPS that are actually competent and can pull out as much DPS as their gear will allow them to. But guess what? I'm not risking ti anymore, I'm not going to waste 30mins to an hour on a group that struggled to cut down trash mobs or follow basic mechanics.

    So now, if you're a low CP, or just bad at the game in general and we're que'd together, I'm kicking you. If the group doesn't want to kick you then I'm finding a new one. If the entire group is bad/low CP, then I'm finding a new one. I'll wait my 15 minutes for a reque because YOU'LL still be on the first trash mob within that time frame. If people want to come onto the forums and *** and complain about being kicked from a group because they're a khajiit mage, low CP. or bad at the game then how about getting good, leveling up, and not using a *** build? It's really not hard, you can pull a bare minimum of 20k DPS with any class at any level.

    Funny how they can fling crap at people for being low CP and being a Khajiit Mage in one breath, then say that such characters can be viable in the next.
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    Update: People who are missing the point here, this is a justification for why so called "elitists" do things such as kicking low CP players. The vast majority cause scenarios as stated above, after getting tired of this constantly happening I've decided that I too will do what many would consider "elitist" action. I'm not saying everyone should have the same build, im not saying you need to be max CP. I'm simply making the point due to the abundance of low CP and even medium CP players performing so poorly some vet dungeons are quite literally impossible, I'm personally going to kick/leave groups with bad and or low CP players. I'm expressing the fact I understand the perspective of your so called elitists, I used to be totally against it. However as I said, due to the abundance of people who just perform adequately enough, you will be kicked.

    Now, if they said that low CP or being a Khajiit Mage would just raise a red flag but that they'd still see how it goes for the first couple of trash pulls at least - or maybe even the first boss - it'd be different. I wouldn't put an 'elitist' tag on someone that wasn't just immediately discriminatory based on such factors. But there's every indication that OP is going to be kicking or leaving the moment they step into the dungeon and look at the characters' race, class, and CP level. That is elitism, the very definition of it.
  • Kilnerdyne
    Kilnerdyne
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    Wait wait wait. All I have to do is join Group Finder with random people and then I get to come here and complain in as many paragraphs as I want about how useless humans are?

    Easy win.

    Welcome to Earth.

    The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg
  • Bladerunner1
    Bladerunner1
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    I joined up groupfinder for the first time for vet ICP last night because I knew the mechanics and felt pretty confident on that particular DD character. After the group formed the tank said "Going for no death run." Talk about confidence, and in a group they didn't know no less!! Maybe it was a flinch test? Is this the normal expectation for vet dlc groupfinder, everyone who joins would/should know their stuff? Statistically I would expect only the most confident to jump into the unknown.

    We tore through the dungeon surprisingly well. The other DD died once to an atronach on a boss, but there were no wipes and no kicks. The previous time I was in there we had several wipes in an assembled group of somewhat experienced and patient friends, but one was doing vICP for the first time.
  • What_In_Tarnation
    What_In_Tarnation
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    ceil420 wrote: »
    @Merlin13KAGL Not meant to being rude to you. But you can read this thread again and back to see meme again. Some of players call OP being elitist/elitism and I find it iroinc cause of OP did want to help these players at first and now he got fed up cause of some low dps player don't wanna learn/communicated and make group work together. Some of players tell people should carry low dps in veteran dungeons, otherwise you're elitist. It's ironic again. And some of players in this thread tell OP stop using group finder and stop being a-holes. It's indeed iroinc as heck.

    OP's not an elitist for calling out legitimately bad players - OP is an elitist because they're pre-judging and wanting to kick people before they've even done first trash pull based solely on CP or frickin' character race.
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    The past three days I've been put into a group with a bad DPS on my healer. And I'm not having it anymore, I understand 100% why people vote low levels and low DPS bad roles. It's because of the people I've been having to deal with these past few days. I'm aware there are low CP DPS that are actually competent and can pull out as much DPS as their gear will allow them to. But guess what? I'm not risking ti anymore, I'm not going to waste 30mins to an hour on a group that struggled to cut down trash mobs or follow basic mechanics.

    So now, if you're a low CP, or just bad at the game in general and we're que'd together, I'm kicking you. If the group doesn't want to kick you then I'm finding a new one. If the entire group is bad/low CP, then I'm finding a new one. I'll wait my 15 minutes for a reque because YOU'LL still be on the first trash mob within that time frame. If people want to come onto the forums and *** and complain about being kicked from a group because they're a khajiit mage, low CP. or bad at the game then how about getting good, leveling up, and not using a *** build? It's really not hard, you can pull a bare minimum of 20k DPS with any class at any level.

    Funny how they can fling crap at people for being low CP and being a Khajiit Mage in one breath, then say that such characters can be viable in the next.
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    Update: People who are missing the point here, this is a justification for why so called "elitists" do things such as kicking low CP players. The vast majority cause scenarios as stated above, after getting tired of this constantly happening I've decided that I too will do what many would consider "elitist" action. I'm not saying everyone should have the same build, im not saying you need to be max CP. I'm simply making the point due to the abundance of low CP and even medium CP players performing so poorly some vet dungeons are quite literally impossible, I'm personally going to kick/leave groups with bad and or low CP players. I'm expressing the fact I understand the perspective of your so called elitists, I used to be totally against it. However as I said, due to the abundance of people who just perform adequately enough, you will be kicked.

    Now, if they said that low CP or being a Khajiit Mage would just raise a red flag but that they'd still see how it goes for the first couple of trash pulls at least - or maybe even the first boss - it'd be different. I wouldn't put an 'elitist' tag on someone that wasn't just immediately discriminatory based on such factors. But there's every indication that OP is going to be kicking or leaving the moment they step into the dungeon and look at the characters' race, class, and CP level. That is elitism, the very definition of it.

    I'm not saying you're wrong, cause as a result you're right. That's why OP's here venting that even tho he's being nice and provide advices at frist many times, then getting ignored by these players so many times. And yet you ignore why OP would rather became such elitsit and instead helping these players. Cause he had tried it many times before and these players don't give a darn and don't even care why the group is struggle.

    if these players don't even care about the group, why should he? Such things happened way too many times though.

    if you only see what you wanna see, then i don't think there's not much we can really discussed about to be honest.
    Edited by What_In_Tarnation on July 17, 2018 10:17AM
  • Charliff1966
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    Cannot believe how many replies didn't read the OP.

    1 After months of ./played helping pugs to complete vet dungeons a player finally decided 'enough is enough' and vents their frustration. They are venting because they are now playing a vet healer and cannot carry an inept group through vet... They then decide their time and experience is worth more than the 'fun' they get carrying others and the insults they receive from random group members for even trying to do so. So they say 'no more'.
    2 The usual forum stalwarts then copy paste their premade 'elitist' name calling posts saying OP is obliged to not kick people who cannot complete the content, or follow the mechanics in vet and that the OP has an obligation to carry every random stranger even on their healer.
    3 Another group of forum regulars chorus 'don't use the dungeon finder. If you do,then don't whine when it goes horribly wrong.'

    The conclusion: if you queue thru dungeon finder for vet, your job is to carry anyone who queues for vet no matter what their gear, level, or competence, even if you are a healer! Even if you take an hour to do last boss. Even if you have to solo the whole catastrophe in spc and worm. Because if you don't YOU are the jerk. It's only your time, elitist, and YOUR time doesn't matter.

    People happily say in public forums (and in group chat) that those who know what to do in harder content have an attitude problem when we suggest gear and supply food and explain the mechanics. We get called narcissists and sociopaths.

    So we leave the DF queues or just quietly leave the group at the first failed dps check...

    Soon you will get what you want, anti elitist forum warriors:
    No more 'attitude' problems
    No more content experts (aka 'elitists' in the forums)
    No one to show new people how hard dlc is done relatively painlessly and quickly.
    No excess motiffs etc.on the market.
    No integration between new players who want to do end game and experienced players.
    No recruitment of new players into progression guilds.
    No carries thru gear farms.
    And hours and hours wasted never finishing vet 2 and vet dlc content because 'it's only a game and i should be able to do what I want.'

    Hope this makes you all happy, forum warriors. After all it's only your time being wasted. Not mine. Not any more.

    I still have a guild of competent players to enjoy the game with. I just don't bother DF queuing anymore

    Edited typos spelling phrasing and last para. Hate typing on my phone.

    We wont miss you
  • cpuScientist
    cpuScientist
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    If it's normal just pull the group if it's vet non DLC just pull the group. If you want to que as healer just carry dps gear with you. If they are shitters then swap to dps and pull the group. If it is a vet dungeon with harder mechanics then mehhhhhhh screw that especially nif they are pure shitters. Always try to pug with one friend. Healers realtalk are barely needed for the vast majority of 4 man's. A magBlade running refreshing and funnel js enough. Just have someone else drain lol.

    But to all people seriously join a guild, talk to people, whenever you do pug add whoever was decent to good to your friends list. Be social and I don't mean Uber social just minimally social and avoid all this headache.
  • Gnozo
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    Just did a pledge. Spindleclutch 2 on vet.

    Healer was decent for his cp 330. 1 dd was cp 100, the other one cp 500.

    CP 100 was zu doing heavy attacks with his DW and NEVER EVER barswaped. So RIP AOE, RIP damage in general.
    CP 500 was in background doing light attacks, assasins will and every 5 seconds a snipe.

    You can imagine the crazy dps these guys pulled out. I tried to give some explenation (endless hail, more dots, more aoe and stuff) but nothing changed. So we kicked both cause we wont do HM with them since the boss is healing himself and 2nd it would take forever.

    2 new DD´s joined. CP 300 and CP 800. I was thinking okay, could work.

    CP800 had meditate and time bubble on his Bar (Magicka Sorc). His rotation: Light attack -> Blockage -> Light attack Blockage -> Light attack -> and so one. He was literally spamming it. CP 800...... Oh i forgot, sometime he used time bubble on the trash mobs. OP!!!!

    CP300 was doing a kinda good job on his dps for cp 300. I said in group to the CP800 guy that we will never get HM with his low dps and "rotation". He left with the words: "when we not doing HM i am out, bye fckers"

    So next DD joined, CP 400. Magicka DD with some decent dps. So we got out dd´s between 300 and 400 cp and they had alone more dps then the CP 500 and CP 800 guys together. We killed last boss fast and got HM.

    I saw some low CP guys pulling out decent dps and CP 800+ guys completly slacking at their role. So some cp minimum for a vet dungeon is not the best way. Some DPS requirements would be more smart for this. Give players a free dps test and based on the dps they did specific dungeons unlock. Otherwise group finder is useless.

    Before some guys complain to me about asking friends for pledges. No one online and cause i mainly do pvp i dont have a pve guild. Just farming undaunted.

    Players really need to work on their dps and stop being a useless special snowflake cause "I wAnT tO pLAy HoW i WaNT". I dont care your build, the skills you use and your rotation. If you get 25k + dps i am completly fine with whatever you do.
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    @Merlin13KAGL Not meant to being rude to you. But you can read this thread again and back to see meme again. Some of players call OP being elitist/elitism and I find it iroinc. Some of players tell people should carry low dps in veteran dungeons, otherwise you're elitist. It's ironic again. And some of players in this thread tell OP stop using group finder and stop being a-holes. It's indeed iroinc as heck.
    @What_In_Tarnation, I totally agree with your assessment. My statement was simply in reference to your meme alone. ;)

    (I would find it more ironic if expecting a picture of an iron, and seeing a picture of anything else.)

    Ahh, ok, my apologies. Sorry, English isn't my primary language, so I think I was misunderstood what you meant there. Cheers. :)

    Edit: Just realized you still don't like my meme.
    Q09si0g.png
    @What_In_Tarnation , I do like your meme! (And your English is fine.)

    It's just that
    2dp8go.jpg
    Cheers! B)

    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • webrgesner
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    Reason why i stopped tanking and healing. Literally it was only me and a tank on vet Mazzatun and my healer killed chudan.
    I had 1700 spell recov and about 2000 spell damage. all i do is wall of elements purifying light and another dot and jesus beam. and for heals all i used was spam healing springs, bof (if anyone is very low) and resto ult. And we had to kick 2 dps before because they did no dmg. Can you believe a healer killed chudan in vet.
  • webrgesner
    webrgesner
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    Noobs need to learn how to dps. On my khajiit stamblade i max 46k dps wearing VO/Hundings/Veli
    Even on my PvP toons when i que for vet pledge i can pull about 30k dps in a pvp set up just because of AoE and DOTs
  • LeagueTroll
    LeagueTroll
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    webrgesner wrote: »
    Reason why i stopped tanking and healing. Literally it was only me and a tank on vet Mazzatun and my healer killed chudan.
    I had 1700 spell recov and about 2000 spell damage. all i do is wall of elements purifying light and another dot and jesus beam. and for heals all i used was spam healing springs, bof (if anyone is very low) and resto ult. And we had to kick 2 dps before because they did no dmg. Can you believe a healer killed chudan in vet.

    The fact you did not kick soon nuf is your own fault, the pull b4 the 1st boss is nuf to see who is that bad.
  • Prabooo
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    Grabmoore wrote: »

    You have the wrong mundus, you use heavy attacks, potentially no monster set, maybe not setting elemental drain yourself, your stats indicate you are not using the proper sets at all, you make way to many force pulses and your uptime on your dots is bad.

    Wall should never be so low. You might want to grind psijic line for the elemental weapon. This should help your sustain. Also, you are missing a few cp. those should not result in that much of a loss. I imagine you seldomly run in good groups, so the lover or even antronarch should be better mundus Stones for you. If you don't have access to trial gear and don't want to farm normal cloudrest for Siroria, just wear 5 julianos + mothers sorrow with 2x ilambris. 1 vma Inferno on backbar, if you have it.

    You can do it. ;)


    I don't group at all, because I know it's not going to go well for me. So no, I don't have any monster sets. Needless to say vMA is out of the question.

    The only group dungeons I've done are the basegame ones on Normal, with my boyfriend. I even soloed a few ( :open_mouth: )

    I didn't use elemental drain either, because I was trying to show people who claim 30K DPS is attainable with just spammable and DOTs that it isn't for everyone.

    I also admitted one of my biggest issue was tempo. This is simply the best I can do, at the moment. I can't fire skills off any faster.

    I chose the Mage because I was trying to stack magicka, although Atronach is of course a possibility. Heavy attacks were used because I was out of magicka; it was either that or fail to complete the parse.

    I highly recommend the apprentice, your magicka pool is good yet your spell damage is way too low
  • LiberatorSam
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    I mean, normal mode exist for a reason, don’t come to vet untill you get gud. The main problem is having fake dps is by far the worse, as dps is the most important role in a dungeon. If there is a fake/bad tank/healer, a good dps can tank and/or self heal to carry the team, if there are 2 fake/bad dps, a good healer or tank can...sit there and watch the dps slowly kill stuff.

    Someone also said if we are that good why don’t we carry them? Well, having the ability to carry doesn’t mean having the willingness to carry, just like how you pay for skyreach carry, I will gladly carry you thru if you are willing to pay the rest of the team, if not, kick. If you are good at something, never do it for free.
  • Seri
    Seri
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    ceil420 wrote: »
    @Merlin13KAGL Not meant to being rude to you. But you can read this thread again and back to see meme again. Some of players call OP being elitist/elitism and I find it iroinc cause of OP did want to help these players at first and now he got fed up cause of some low dps player don't wanna learn/communicated and make group work together. Some of players tell people should carry low dps in veteran dungeons, otherwise you're elitist. It's ironic again. And some of players in this thread tell OP stop using group finder and stop being a-holes. It's indeed iroinc as heck.

    OP's not an elitist for calling out legitimately bad players - OP is an elitist because they're pre-judging and wanting to kick people before they've even done first trash pull based solely on CP or frickin' character race.
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    The past three days I've been put into a group with a bad DPS on my healer. And I'm not having it anymore, I understand 100% why people vote low levels and low DPS bad roles. It's because of the people I've been having to deal with these past few days. I'm aware there are low CP DPS that are actually competent and can pull out as much DPS as their gear will allow them to. But guess what? I'm not risking ti anymore, I'm not going to waste 30mins to an hour on a group that struggled to cut down trash mobs or follow basic mechanics.

    So now, if you're a low CP, or just bad at the game in general and we're que'd together, I'm kicking you. If the group doesn't want to kick you then I'm finding a new one. If the entire group is bad/low CP, then I'm finding a new one. I'll wait my 15 minutes for a reque because YOU'LL still be on the first trash mob within that time frame. If people want to come onto the forums and *** and complain about being kicked from a group because they're a khajiit mage, low CP. or bad at the game then how about getting good, leveling up, and not using a *** build? It's really not hard, you can pull a bare minimum of 20k DPS with any class at any level.

    Funny how they can fling crap at people for being low CP and being a Khajiit Mage in one breath, then say that such characters can be viable in the next.
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    Update: People who are missing the point here, this is a justification for why so called "elitists" do things such as kicking low CP players. The vast majority cause scenarios as stated above, after getting tired of this constantly happening I've decided that I too will do what many would consider "elitist" action. I'm not saying everyone should have the same build, im not saying you need to be max CP. I'm simply making the point due to the abundance of low CP and even medium CP players performing so poorly some vet dungeons are quite literally impossible, I'm personally going to kick/leave groups with bad and or low CP players. I'm expressing the fact I understand the perspective of your so called elitists, I used to be totally against it. However as I said, due to the abundance of people who just perform adequately enough, you will be kicked.

    Now, if they said that low CP or being a Khajiit Mage would just raise a red flag but that they'd still see how it goes for the first couple of trash pulls at least - or maybe even the first boss - it'd be different. I wouldn't put an 'elitist' tag on someone that wasn't just immediately discriminatory based on such factors. But there's every indication that OP is going to be kicking or leaving the moment they step into the dungeon and look at the characters' race, class, and CP level. That is elitism, the very definition of it.

    To be fair, they never strictly said they'd kick immediately either. It's open to interpretation but they may be explicitly making the distinction where the OP used to try and take the group with them, used to try and teach, now they'll simply boot if things don't work out after the first or second trash pull.

    I'll always resist kicking players (low or high CP) if they're willing to listen and learn mechanics (and I'll carry base-zone dungeons if DPS is good enough). On the other hand I've had mid-CP players continuing dying 10 seconds in to every Kena fight after explaining multiple times what they should do in WGT, and after asking multiple times not to, they keep reading the book for HM, my patience may run out...
    EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
    DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    Seri wrote: »
    To be fair, they never strictly said they'd kick immediately either. It's open to interpretation but they may be explicitly making the distinction where the OP used to try and take the group with them, used to try and teach, now they'll simply boot if things don't work out after the first or second trash pull.

    I'll always resist kicking players (low or high CP) if they're willing to listen and learn mechanics (and I'll carry base-zone dungeons if DPS is good enough). On the other hand I've had mid-CP players continuing dying 10 seconds in to every Kena fight after explaining multiple times what they should do in WGT, and after asking multiple times not to, they keep reading the book for HM, my patience may run out...
    The trick is determining if your group is legitimately making progression.

    In most cases, if you can get to the end boss, you can clear the end boss. (Maybe not HM, but clear.)

    Situations like this:
    Smasherx74 wrote: »
    The DPS is so minuscule I as a WARDEN HEALER am the one having to destroy the orbs because their DPS is so *** low they couldn't even prevent the boss from healing.
    should never get this far (no matter how good the intentions.)

    If the DPS was that low, it had to take a dear year to even arrive there.

    There is nothing wrong with indicating honestly that there is not enough oomph, heals, tankiness, experience, or even simple group cohesion to warrant continuing.

    This is known well before the final fight, and if you have that gut feeling, it's probably best for all to take heed.

    There is nothing you can do to teach a group or an individual that refuses to learn. Cut your losses, and move on.

    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Seri
    Seri
    ✭✭✭✭
    Seri wrote: »
    To be fair, they never strictly said they'd kick immediately either. It's open to interpretation but they may be explicitly making the distinction where the OP used to try and take the group with them, used to try and teach, now they'll simply boot if things don't work out after the first or second trash pull.

    I'll always resist kicking players (low or high CP) if they're willing to listen and learn mechanics (and I'll carry base-zone dungeons if DPS is good enough). On the other hand I've had mid-CP players continuing dying 10 seconds in to every Kena fight after explaining multiple times what they should do in WGT, and after asking multiple times not to, they keep reading the book for HM, my patience may run out...
    The trick is determining if your group is legitimately making progression.

    In most cases, if you can get to the end boss, you can clear the end boss. (Maybe not HM, but clear.)
    I agree - after we carried through planar, we were expecting to at least clear (although maybe not HM), except every time we rezzed the first thing this other DPS would do is read the book, while we're trying to talk about what to do.

    I can't remember if it was me on an alt (tank perhaps - I healer main, or maybe a lower geared healer alt), or if I was on EU (CP190ish without top-end healer sets) but the other three of us could see we couldn't 3-man HM with one DPS dead on the floor and seemingly refusing to read or respond to group chat.

    EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
    DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    After reasonable attempts (which is sounds like you had), both of those things (HM scroll and non response) are definitely kick-worthy.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Shadowmaster
    Shadowmaster
    ✭✭✭✭
    deleted
    Edited by Shadowmaster on July 11, 2018 12:12AM
  • Shadowmaster
    Shadowmaster
    ✭✭✭✭
    To everyone posting 30k parses using ele weapon/magblade + obvious animation cancel, no one is complaining you can't pull 30k CP as anyone. We are complaining that our Combat Metrics shows us pulling 74% + for the first 2 bosses as DPS, and the group is wiping on multiple bosses because they arent content familiar. We know you can pull that with your premade group etc.

    Also lol at suggesting that BSW and MS staff farm is an easy outfit to obtain. GTFO with that nonsense. No one is impressed your CP 1200 char can throw on crap gear and crap skills and pull 30k dps. We are complaining we get low cp, low dps, non-knowledgeable players in our groups consistently.

    Want to shut complainers up? Post a video of you queuing SOLO for dailies for a week and then:
    • Time how long it takes to even get a group
    • Count group form failures
    • Count times other members leave
    • Count times you get sub-CP150
    • Count times you get sub-CP250
    • Count times you get sub-CP500
    • Count times you get sub-CP750
    • Count times group wipes per boss
    • Count time it takes group to complete dungeon
    • Count times group disbands after failing
    • Count times per quest-giver how many successes/failures. Good luck with that vet HM scalecaller pug run.

    EDIT: To make it interesting, we can bet some $.


    That list could go on but if you really want to see what we are complaining about, post the data. Its something ZoS's BI should already be doing but clearly isnt.
    Edited by Shadowmaster on July 10, 2018 2:54PM
  • Raudgrani
    Raudgrani
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm no ultra high DPS, I think I pull like 20k or something like that on a 3 million dummy, perhaps even lower. I mainly PVP, and in PVE I mainly play healer. Most often I have no group, so I queue in activity finder.
    I might be a bit "non meta", because I heal with Sword & Board/Resto (because I have a PVP build, basically); sometimes I go lightning staff/resto staff - but most often not.
    And I don't know how many times I've ended up in a group with low damage dealers, and a tank running like 2H/bow (and being *** at it). All these times, I need to be both tank and healer - AND DPS, the few times I use lightning staff that is. It works in all vet non DLC dungeons, and some DLC vet dungeons, but as you might understand far from all...

    There should be some kind of system to punish bad players, who intentionally slot all three roles just to be able of getting into dungeons. I even recognize some names of people doing this, and if I decide to drop out of that group directly, I'm the one being punished. It's really not fair.
  • Shadowmaster
    Shadowmaster
    ✭✭✭✭
    Olen_Mikko wrote: »
    Not everyone wants to be the ultimate champion of dps. They want to find builds themselves. They want builds to fit their playstyle. They want builds to fit their own lore.

    Ok, Ill bite. This is why we have training dummies. For people to "find builds" on.

    Olen_Mikko wrote: »
    Besides, is it that hard to be friendly and try to explain nicely, why 10k dps is not suitable for veteran stuff and how to improve it?

    Honest answer is sometimes yes it is. Sometimes I dont want to waste my limited play time teaching noob#1242385732458 how to not spam one skill because they are unwilling or unable to spend 30minutes of THEIR time to learn it on their own. This isnt a welfare state. Spend a few minutes or hours learning the game and stop wasting other players free time to educate you. If I wanted to do volunteer work it wouldn't be on a game I pay to play.
  • Zhaedri
    Zhaedri
    ✭✭✭✭
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Zhaedri wrote: »
    Been playing for a couple years now. Good to know that I must be absolute trash as I can't pull more than 15k single target, and apparently have no business going into dungeons or doing content to get better gear than my crafted purples.

    Maybe I should just quit since I am so useless, and not even good enough to pug. Everything I have tried and every build I have used has not improved my output.

    @Zhaedri , tell us a little more about your class, race, gear (including traits and enchantments), skill bars, CP allocation, mundus stone, food/drink, and rotation. There’s absolutely no reason (short of serious physical disability) why any damage dealer who is committed to improving their DPS should find themselves stuck at 15k. Your damage output is great for normal dungeons, where you can acquire better gear than your crafted gear, but it’s going to drag your group down if you’re completing veteran dungeons (especially vet DLC and story mode 2 dungeons).

    Please don’t view this response as an insult, because it’s not. The so-called “elitists” more often than not genuinely want to help anyone with low DPS to improve, because the more players we help, the better veteran dungeon pugs will be for EVERYONE.

    Sorry for my INCREDIBLY LATE reply. I don't check the forums as often as I once did.

    I'm running a dunmer stamsorc (I like the whoosh-woosh of dual wield, what can I say?). CP 508.

    For Armor/weapons I am running (all purple w/ purple enchants; armor is divines w/ stam enchant) 5 pc Night Mother's Gaze, 4 pc Hunding's Rage, 2 daggers (precise trait, absorb stam), 1 bow (precise, absorb stam). Jewelry is 3 pc Agility set, purple, stam recovery + robust trait.

    Mundus stone is the Thief. Food is 'Garlic Cod with Potato Crust' (increases max health and stam, scales CP 150-CP 160); I used to go with Dubious Camoran Throne (inc health, stam, stam regen) but wasn't having too many issues with stam regen so went with something that had greater bonuses to health/stam.

    My ability points are 10 in health, 54 in stam (even so, my base health is just under 12k without buffs).

    CP allocation: The Lover 120 (40 mooncalf, 40 tenacity, 40 healthy), The Shadow 49 (30 shade, 19 tumbling... I will get treasure hunter eventually!), The Atronach 89 (40 Physical Weapons Expert, 49 Master At Arms), The Ritual 80 (40 Piercing, 40 Precise Strikes), The Steed 170 (35 Ironclad, 40 Spell Shield, 45 Resistant, 40 Medium Armor Focus).

    Skills: Front Bar: Deadly Cloak, Rending Slashes, Rapid Strikes, Whirling Blades, Dark Deal... Ult is WW Berserker. Back Bar is Critical Surge, Poison Injection, Endless Hail, Trap Beast, Bound Armaments... Ult is Rapid Fire (couldn't decide what morph so left it). WW bar has all the WW stuff on it.. Pounce, Hircine's Bounty, Roar, Piercing Howl, Infectious Claws.

    My rotation is really situational... the mix of ranged and close combat and an aoe and dot on each bar lets me solo most overland stuff, delves, and some public dungeons. I generally buff up with crit surge, and open with laying the dots down and then doing aoe/single target burst damage until it's dead, closing from range to switch to rapid strikes. Trap beast isn't working as well as I would like and is only in there because someone told me to put it in there since I have no access to caltrops to slow down targets.. I almost never use it though.

    I've pretty well long given up doing group content as most will just tell me I am trash and not bother to help, or the ones I ask for help just tell me to google it or throw a bunch of gear that I cannot get without already being good/skill stuff from pvp which I am also no good at... Several have outright said 'go magsorc', and a few have told me to just reroll as something else since I am 'useless' at my current class. I really appreciate you willing to take a look at this mess and not be a jerk about it. I love this character and her being stuck as my crafter/thief and mats gatherer is sad when I -want- to be able to go do group content confidently and do stuff with my friends.

    Edited to add:

    I don't queue for vet. I feel garbo as it is for normal mode, and have no idea how people can get such high numbers. Every time I hear what looks like a high number to me, I feel even more trash about playing... as that eventuality of MAYBE getting to do vet stuff and trials gets moved further and further away... along with making new pve friends, getting the rewards like furnishing items, skins, motifs, personalities, etc. I have actually been kicked from NORMAL dungeons for saying "Hi! I haven't done this one before, can we do the quest?" or "Hi! I don't know this dungeon, this is my first time here."

    I used to raid in another game. I know not to stand in stupid. I can follow directions for mechanics and appreciate anyone that can instruct me on them. I know to only queue for the role I can/am willing to play. I know not to jump ahead of the tank or make things hard on the healer. I'm not a jerk in group chat... rude people and trash talk really stresses me out, so I avoid that entirely (and have dropped groups that do it in the past).

    I once joined a PVE guild that claimed to help people... but was totally lost in the roster and did not get any assistance or get to do any pve stuff with them. I left after two months, realizing I had no connection to anyone there and that my requests for assistance were getting ignored.
    Edited by Zhaedri on July 11, 2018 8:36AM
    @Zhaedri PC NA

  • Glass
    Glass
    ✭✭✭
    What I did to farm Dibellium the first days of summerset was queue as all roles with my magblade and carry anyone if it was actually needed, you can pull an easy 30-40k blocking, dodging and healing whilst dpsing silly mechanics like the ones that you get from non dlc dungeon bosses. Motto of the story, magblades are stupidly overpowered, all I wanted to say was that tbh, pls nerf. Add more slots for homestead, nerf sloads, vote Sanders.
    Edited by Glass on July 11, 2018 9:02AM
  • Seri
    Seri
    ✭✭✭✭
    Glass wrote: »
    What I did to farm Dibellium the first days of summerset was queue as all roles with my magblade and carry anyone if it was actually needed, you can pull an easy 30-40k blocking, dodging and healing whilst dpsing silly mechanics like the ones that you get from non dlc dungeon bosses. Motto of the story, magblades are stupidly overpowered, all I wanted to say was that tbh, pls nerf. Add more slots for homestead, nerf sloads, vote Sanders.
    Good thing ZOS are removing the ability to queue as multiple roles, right? XD
    EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
    DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK
  • Aurielle
    Aurielle
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zhaedri wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Zhaedri wrote: »
    Been playing for a couple years now. Good to know that I must be absolute trash as I can't pull more than 15k single target, and apparently have no business going into dungeons or doing content to get better gear than my crafted purples.

    Maybe I should just quit since I am so useless, and not even good enough to pug. Everything I have tried and every build I have used has not improved my output.

    @Zhaedri , tell us a little more about your class, race, gear (including traits and enchantments), skill bars, CP allocation, mundus stone, food/drink, and rotation. There’s absolutely no reason (short of serious physical disability) why any damage dealer who is committed to improving their DPS should find themselves stuck at 15k. Your damage output is great for normal dungeons, where you can acquire better gear than your crafted gear, but it’s going to drag your group down if you’re completing veteran dungeons (especially vet DLC and story mode 2 dungeons).

    Please don’t view this response as an insult, because it’s not. The so-called “elitists” more often than not genuinely want to help anyone with low DPS to improve, because the more players we help, the better veteran dungeon pugs will be for EVERYONE.

    Sorry for my INCREDIBLY LATE reply. I don't check the forums as often as I once did.

    I'm running a dunmer stamsorc (I like the whoosh-woosh of dual wield, what can I say?). CP 508.

    For Armor/weapons I am running (all purple w/ purple enchants; armor is divines w/ stam enchant) 5 pc Night Mother's Gaze, 4 pc Hunding's Rage, 2 daggers (precise trait, absorb stam), 1 bow (precise, absorb stam). Jewelry is 3 pc Agility set, purple, stam recovery + robust trait.

    Mundus stone is the Thief. Food is 'Garlic Cod with Potato Crust' (increases max health and stam, scales CP 150-CP 160); I used to go with Dubious Camoran Throne (inc health, stam, stam regen) but wasn't having too many issues with stam regen so went with something that had greater bonuses to health/stam.

    My ability points are 10 in health, 54 in stam (even so, my base health is just under 12k without buffs).

    CP allocation: The Lover 120 (40 mooncalf, 40 tenacity, 40 healthy), The Shadow 49 (30 shade, 19 tumbling... I will get treasure hunter eventually!), The Atronach 89 (40 Physical Weapons Expert, 49 Master At Arms), The Ritual 80 (40 Piercing, 40 Precise Strikes), The Steed 170 (35 Ironclad, 40 Spell Shield, 45 Resistant, 40 Medium Armor Focus).

    Skills: Front Bar: Deadly Cloak, Rending Slashes, Rapid Strikes, Whirling Blades, Dark Deal... Ult is WW Berserker. Back Bar is Critical Surge, Poison Injection, Endless Hail, Trap Beast, Bound Armaments... Ult is Rapid Fire (couldn't decide what morph so left it). WW bar has all the WW stuff on it.. Pounce, Hircine's Bounty, Roar, Piercing Howl, Infectious Claws.

    My rotation is really situational... the mix of ranged and close combat and an aoe and dot on each bar lets me solo most overland stuff, delves, and some public dungeons. I generally buff up with crit surge, and open with laying the dots down and then doing aoe/single target burst damage until it's dead, closing from range to switch to rapid strikes. Trap beast isn't working as well as I would like and is only in there because someone told me to put it in there since I have no access to caltrops to slow down targets.. I almost never use it though.

    I've pretty well long given up doing group content as most will just tell me I am trash and not bother to help, or the ones I ask for help just tell me to google it or throw a bunch of gear that I cannot get without already being good/skill stuff from pvp which I am also no good at... Several have outright said 'go magsorc', and a few have told me to just reroll as something else since I am 'useless' at my current class. I really appreciate you willing to take a look at this mess and not be a jerk about it. I love this character and her being stuck as my crafter/thief and mats gatherer is sad when I -want- to be able to go do group content confidently and do stuff with my friends.

    Edited to add:

    I don't queue for vet. I feel garbo as it is for normal mode, and have no idea how people can get such high numbers. Every time I hear what looks like a high number to me, I feel even more trash about playing... as that eventuality of MAYBE getting to do vet stuff and trials gets moved further and further away... along with making new pve friends, getting the rewards like furnishing items, skins, motifs, personalities, etc. I have actually been kicked from NORMAL dungeons for saying "Hi! I haven't done this one before, can we do the quest?" or "Hi! I don't know this dungeon, this is my first time here."

    I used to raid in another game. I know not to stand in stupid. I can follow directions for mechanics and appreciate anyone that can instruct me on them. I know to only queue for the role I can/am willing to play. I know not to jump ahead of the tank or make things hard on the healer. I'm not a jerk in group chat... rude people and trash talk really stresses me out, so I avoid that entirely (and have dropped groups that do it in the past).

    I once joined a PVE guild that claimed to help people... but was totally lost in the roster and did not get any assistance or get to do any pve stuff with them. I left after two months, realizing I had no connection to anyone there and that my requests for assistance were getting ignored.

    No problem re: the delayed response, @Zhaedri . :) I'm guessing you're on PC? If you were on PS4, I'd help you through some normal dungeons to get you the gear you need. What you're wearing right now is okay for normal dungeons, but you really need some dungeon or overland drops to get to the next level, and then some trials drops. Normal trials are easy, so once you feel comfortable in normal dungeons, that'll be the next step for you.

    In any case, some suggestions that might help in the meantime:

    Race:
    For damage dealers, race unfortunately does matter (more so than it does for tanks or, to a lesser extent, healers). Dunmers are better suited to magicka builds, as their passives buff max magicka and flame/frost/shock damage. You would see an improvement if you were to either re-build your character as a magsorc, or purchase a race change token and switch to a stamina oriented race, like Redguard. If you don't want to change races or roll a magsorc, there are certainly other changes you can make to do more damage. Just be aware, though, that you'll never get as much damage out of the character as you possibly could.

    Gear:
    What you're wearing right now is acceptable for normal content, but you really should start trying to work on getting some dungeon drops and a monster set. A decent starter combination of crafted gear and drops would be something like 5 pc Strength of the Automaton (3 jewellery, 2 body), 5 pc Hundings Rage, and 2 pc Stormfist or Selene. Automaton drops from Darkshade Caverns, the Stormfist helm drops from vet Tempest Island, and the Selene helm drops from vet Selene's Web. Stormfist/Selenes shoulders are a random drop from Undaunted chests. Since it'll probably still be a while until you feel comfortable enough with your DPS to do vet dungeons and pledges, what you could possibly try doing instead is keeping your Agility jewellery, farming Darkshade for 5 Automaton body pieces, and filling the gaps with Hunding's Rage. Since 2H weapons count for two set pieces now, that will give you two five piece bonuses and the three piece bonus from Agility. Also, an easy vet helm to aim for once you feel ready to start moving to more of a meta gear setup is Kraghs (gives some nice penetration), which you can get from vet Fungal Grotto 1.

    All of your armour should be divines and purple quality irrespective of the sets you use, with at least 5 medium pieces (ideal setup with Undaunted passives is 5 medium, 1 light, 1 heavy, but it'll be a while before you hit Undaunted rank 10, so for now, 5 medium and 2 heavy or 7 medium would be fine). Your weapons should be purple at the very least, gold for max DPS. Your bow could either be nirnhoned or sharpened with a disease damage glyph (or any other damage-oriented glyph, as you'd ideally like to use damage health poisons on your back bar), and your daggers should be one nirnhoned/sharpened with a poison damage glyph, and one precise with a weapon damage glyph. Stam return glyphs are garbage for DPS, as you will get better stam return from racial passives, food/drink, and CP.

    If you want to stick with what you've got, that's okay too, but at the VERY least change the glyphs on your weapons, re-craft them with better traits, and gold them out if possible.

    Skills:
    You're going to have to do a little bit of PVP if you want to get the most out of a stamina damage dealer. Dealing effective damage is all about damage over time and your rotation. Caltrops is an unquestionable must-have for any stamina damage dealer, as it is the most effective DOT skill at your disposal. You don't have to go to Cyrodiil to get Caltrops, though; you can run quick Battlegrounds (they take about 10 mins max) and you earn alliance points even if you lose. No one has any big expectations of you in Battlegrounds, and even if they do, meh. You're just there for Caltrops, so who cares what they think? It doesn't take long at all to hit the rank you need to unlock Caltrops. When you do get it, level it up ASAP so you can morph it to Razor Caltrops.

    I don't know much about Werewolf; what I do know is that they're generally better for PVP than they are for PVE. No serious stam damage dealers I know run Werewolf. It's up to you if you want to use Werewolf form in dungeons, but do keep in mind that there are better options and you might get auto-booted for using Werewolf (too many bad experiences with Werewolves who deal poor damage in dungeons gets to some people). Hunt around on YouTube for some PVE Werewolf builds if you do want to stick with it.

    One bar skill combo you could try (and keep in mind that there are better options once you master light attack weaving) is the following:

    DW: Rending Slashes, Deadly Cloak, Shrouded Daggers, Hurricane (absolute must have for stam sorc -- it's your bread and butter), Bound Armaments, Flawless Dawnbreaker (and make sure you have the Fighters Guild passive that increases weapon damage for each FG skill equipped).

    Bow: Endless Hail, Rearming Trap, Poison Injection, Razor Caltrops, Bound Armaments, Ballista (WAY better morph of Rapid Fire than Toxic Barrage, because you don't have to stay on your bow bar until it finishes).

    Until you get Caltrops, you could slot something like Crit Surge or Dark Deal. I can't emphasize enough, though, how important Caltrops is to stamina DPS.

    Rotation:
    The meta rotations right now are focused on light attack weaving, as stam sorcs no longer get a buff for heavy attack weaving. However, since you're still learning, heavy attack weaving on your DW bar may be easier for you to manage when you're starting out. It would also help you with stamina sustain. One relatively easy rotation (which I used on my PVP stam sorc while I was grinding out Undaunted Ranks) you could try is this:

    Pre-buffs: Deadly Cloak + Hurricane (always try to keep Hurricane up, but refresh it just before it expires!)

    Main rotation:

    Bow bar: Endless Hail --> Light Attack (LA) --> Rearming Trap --> LA --> Poison Injection --> LA --> Caltrops --> Weapon Swap
    DW bar: Heavy Attack (HA) --> Rending Slashes --> HA --> Deadly Cloak --> HA --> Shrouded Daggers --> HA --> Hurricane --> Weapon Swap --> LA

    Repeat until boss is dead. For trash pulls before bosses, activating Deadly Cloak and Hurricane before doing just your bow bar rotation will usually be enough in normal dungeons.

    CP Allocation and Attributes:
    Your current CP setup isn't as good as it could be. You're occasionally investing into areas that do nothing for you (e.g. Resistant is for PVP crit resistance, and you're a PVE damage dealer -- there's no crit damage dealt to you in PVE).

    Try following Alcast's CP recommendations for 300 CP (https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-sorcerer-build-pve/) as a base line, and then add your remaining points into other constellations included in the CP 750 setup (e.g. Master-at-Arms and Physical Weapon Expert). It's kind of tough to optimize your CP for you when I'm not sure what you'll be wearing, but this will at least give you a very basic idea. You'll also be better off when you stop spending points on useless things like Resistant, Healthy, and Medium Armour Focus.

    Attributes: all stamina, so long as your health with food sits at 16-17k or higher. You'd probably be better off sticking with your current food, as it should give you enough health to get to that 16k minimum.

    Sorry for being long-winded, but hopefully it's clear enough to follow. :) Keep in mind that my recommendations aren't going to take you to 30k plus, but they should hopefully at least push you over the 20k mark, which is fine for easier vet dungeons. 30k plus with your class/race combo would require access to gear that might be unrealistic for you to attain right now, like certain monster sets, and dungeon/trial sets. Focus on the stuff you can easily change now (e.g. CP allocation, weapon glyphs, skill setups) and acquire gear at your own pace. Most importantly, start practicing your rotation on a dummy, and start working towards getting Caltrops. As I said, Battlegrounds are a relatively painless way to level up your Alliance ranks, and once you have Caltrops, you never have to touch PVP again.

    Keep in mind, too, that even if you suddenly were to gain access to 750 CP and best in slot trial gear overnight, you won't go from 15k DPS to 35K+ DPS in a single day without a good rotation and lots of practice. Just keep at it, and try not to get discouraged. I struggled too, at first, and got kicked from dungeons -- we all do. And then we get better.
  • Zhaedri
    Zhaedri
    ✭✭✭✭
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Zhaedri wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Zhaedri wrote: »
    Been playing for a couple years now. Good to know that I must be absolute trash as I can't pull more than 15k single target, and apparently have no business going into dungeons or doing content to get better gear than my crafted purples.

    Maybe I should just quit since I am so useless, and not even good enough to pug. Everything I have tried and every build I have used has not improved my output.

    @Zhaedri , tell us a little more about your class, race, gear (including traits and enchantments), skill bars, CP allocation, mundus stone, food/drink, and rotation. There’s absolutely no reason (short of serious physical disability) why any damage dealer who is committed to improving their DPS should find themselves stuck at 15k. Your damage output is great for normal dungeons, where you can acquire better gear than your crafted gear, but it’s going to drag your group down if you’re completing veteran dungeons (especially vet DLC and story mode 2 dungeons).

    Please don’t view this response as an insult, because it’s not. The so-called “elitists” more often than not genuinely want to help anyone with low DPS to improve, because the more players we help, the better veteran dungeon pugs will be for EVERYONE.

    Sorry for my INCREDIBLY LATE reply. I don't check the forums as often as I once did.

    I'm running a dunmer stamsorc (I like the whoosh-woosh of dual wield, what can I say?). CP 508.

    For Armor/weapons I am running (all purple w/ purple enchants; armor is divines w/ stam enchant) 5 pc Night Mother's Gaze, 4 pc Hunding's Rage, 2 daggers (precise trait, absorb stam), 1 bow (precise, absorb stam). Jewelry is 3 pc Agility set, purple, stam recovery + robust trait.

    Mundus stone is the Thief. Food is 'Garlic Cod with Potato Crust' (increases max health and stam, scales CP 150-CP 160); I used to go with Dubious Camoran Throne (inc health, stam, stam regen) but wasn't having too many issues with stam regen so went with something that had greater bonuses to health/stam.

    My ability points are 10 in health, 54 in stam (even so, my base health is just under 12k without buffs).

    CP allocation: The Lover 120 (40 mooncalf, 40 tenacity, 40 healthy), The Shadow 49 (30 shade, 19 tumbling... I will get treasure hunter eventually!), The Atronach 89 (40 Physical Weapons Expert, 49 Master At Arms), The Ritual 80 (40 Piercing, 40 Precise Strikes), The Steed 170 (35 Ironclad, 40 Spell Shield, 45 Resistant, 40 Medium Armor Focus).

    Skills: Front Bar: Deadly Cloak, Rending Slashes, Rapid Strikes, Whirling Blades, Dark Deal... Ult is WW Berserker. Back Bar is Critical Surge, Poison Injection, Endless Hail, Trap Beast, Bound Armaments... Ult is Rapid Fire (couldn't decide what morph so left it). WW bar has all the WW stuff on it.. Pounce, Hircine's Bounty, Roar, Piercing Howl, Infectious Claws.

    My rotation is really situational... the mix of ranged and close combat and an aoe and dot on each bar lets me solo most overland stuff, delves, and some public dungeons. I generally buff up with crit surge, and open with laying the dots down and then doing aoe/single target burst damage until it's dead, closing from range to switch to rapid strikes. Trap beast isn't working as well as I would like and is only in there because someone told me to put it in there since I have no access to caltrops to slow down targets.. I almost never use it though.

    I've pretty well long given up doing group content as most will just tell me I am trash and not bother to help, or the ones I ask for help just tell me to google it or throw a bunch of gear that I cannot get without already being good/skill stuff from pvp which I am also no good at... Several have outright said 'go magsorc', and a few have told me to just reroll as something else since I am 'useless' at my current class. I really appreciate you willing to take a look at this mess and not be a jerk about it. I love this character and her being stuck as my crafter/thief and mats gatherer is sad when I -want- to be able to go do group content confidently and do stuff with my friends.

    Edited to add:

    I don't queue for vet. I feel garbo as it is for normal mode, and have no idea how people can get such high numbers. Every time I hear what looks like a high number to me, I feel even more trash about playing... as that eventuality of MAYBE getting to do vet stuff and trials gets moved further and further away... along with making new pve friends, getting the rewards like furnishing items, skins, motifs, personalities, etc. I have actually been kicked from NORMAL dungeons for saying "Hi! I haven't done this one before, can we do the quest?" or "Hi! I don't know this dungeon, this is my first time here."

    I used to raid in another game. I know not to stand in stupid. I can follow directions for mechanics and appreciate anyone that can instruct me on them. I know to only queue for the role I can/am willing to play. I know not to jump ahead of the tank or make things hard on the healer. I'm not a jerk in group chat... rude people and trash talk really stresses me out, so I avoid that entirely (and have dropped groups that do it in the past).

    I once joined a PVE guild that claimed to help people... but was totally lost in the roster and did not get any assistance or get to do any pve stuff with them. I left after two months, realizing I had no connection to anyone there and that my requests for assistance were getting ignored.

    No problem re: the delayed response, @Zhaedri . :) I'm guessing you're on PC? If you were on PS4, I'd help you through some normal dungeons to get you the gear you need. What you're wearing right now is okay for normal dungeons, but you really need some dungeon or overland drops to get to the next level, and then some trials drops. Normal trials are easy, so once you feel comfortable in normal dungeons, that'll be the next step for you.

    In any case, some suggestions that might help in the meantime:

    Race:
    For damage dealers, race unfortunately does matter (more so than it does for tanks or, to a lesser extent, healers). Dunmers are better suited to magicka builds, as their passives buff max magicka and flame/frost/shock damage. You would see an improvement if you were to either re-build your character as a magsorc, or purchase a race change token and switch to a stamina oriented race, like Redguard. If you don't want to change races or roll a magsorc, there are certainly other changes you can make to do more damage. Just be aware, though, that you'll never get as much damage out of the character as you possibly could.

    Gear:
    What you're wearing right now is acceptable for normal content, but you really should start trying to work on getting some dungeon drops and a monster set. A decent starter combination of crafted gear and drops would be something like 5 pc Strength of the Automaton (3 jewellery, 2 body), 5 pc Hundings Rage, and 2 pc Stormfist or Selene. Automaton drops from Darkshade Caverns, the Stormfist helm drops from vet Tempest Island, and the Selene helm drops from vet Selene's Web. Stormfist/Selenes shoulders are a random drop from Undaunted chests. Since it'll probably still be a while until you feel comfortable enough with your DPS to do vet dungeons and pledges, what you could possibly try doing instead is keeping your Agility jewellery, farming Darkshade for 5 Automaton body pieces, and filling the gaps with Hunding's Rage. Since 2H weapons count for two set pieces now, that will give you two five piece bonuses and the three piece bonus from Agility. Also, an easy vet helm to aim for once you feel ready to start moving to more of a meta gear setup is Kraghs (gives some nice penetration), which you can get from vet Fungal Grotto 1.

    All of your armour should be divines and purple quality irrespective of the sets you use, with at least 5 medium pieces (ideal setup with Undaunted passives is 5 medium, 1 light, 1 heavy, but it'll be a while before you hit Undaunted rank 10, so for now, 5 medium and 2 heavy or 7 medium would be fine). Your weapons should be purple at the very least, gold for max DPS. Your bow could either be nirnhoned or sharpened with a disease damage glyph (or any other damage-oriented glyph, as you'd ideally like to use damage health poisons on your back bar), and your daggers should be one nirnhoned/sharpened with a poison damage glyph, and one precise with a weapon damage glyph. Stam return glyphs are garbage for DPS, as you will get better stam return from racial passives, food/drink, and CP.

    If you want to stick with what you've got, that's okay too, but at the VERY least change the glyphs on your weapons, re-craft them with better traits, and gold them out if possible.

    Skills:
    You're going to have to do a little bit of PVP if you want to get the most out of a stamina damage dealer. Dealing effective damage is all about damage over time and your rotation. Caltrops is an unquestionable must-have for any stamina damage dealer, as it is the most effective DOT skill at your disposal. You don't have to go to Cyrodiil to get Caltrops, though; you can run quick Battlegrounds (they take about 10 mins max) and you earn alliance points even if you lose. No one has any big expectations of you in Battlegrounds, and even if they do, meh. You're just there for Caltrops, so who cares what they think? It doesn't take long at all to hit the rank you need to unlock Caltrops. When you do get it, level it up ASAP so you can morph it to Razor Caltrops.

    I don't know much about Werewolf; what I do know is that they're generally better for PVP than they are for PVE. No serious stam damage dealers I know run Werewolf. It's up to you if you want to use Werewolf form in dungeons, but do keep in mind that there are better options and you might get auto-booted for using Werewolf (too many bad experiences with Werewolves who deal poor damage in dungeons gets to some people). Hunt around on YouTube for some PVE Werewolf builds if you do want to stick with it.

    One bar skill combo you could try (and keep in mind that there are better options once you master light attack weaving) is the following:

    DW: Rending Slashes, Deadly Cloak, Shrouded Daggers, Hurricane (absolute must have for stam sorc -- it's your bread and butter), Bound Armaments, Flawless Dawnbreaker (and make sure you have the Fighters Guild passive that increases weapon damage for each FG skill equipped).

    Bow: Endless Hail, Rearming Trap, Poison Injection, Razor Caltrops, Bound Armaments, Ballista (WAY better morph of Rapid Fire than Toxic Barrage, because you don't have to stay on your bow bar until it finishes).

    Until you get Caltrops, you could slot something like Crit Surge or Dark Deal. I can't emphasize enough, though, how important Caltrops is to stamina DPS.

    Rotation:
    The meta rotations right now are focused on light attack weaving, as stam sorcs no longer get a buff for heavy attack weaving. However, since you're still learning, heavy attack weaving on your DW bar may be easier for you to manage when you're starting out. It would also help you with stamina sustain. One relatively easy rotation (which I used on my PVP stam sorc while I was grinding out Undaunted Ranks) you could try is this:

    Pre-buffs: Deadly Cloak + Hurricane (always try to keep Hurricane up, but refresh it just before it expires!)

    Main rotation:

    Bow bar: Endless Hail --> Light Attack (LA) --> Rearming Trap --> LA --> Poison Injection --> LA --> Caltrops --> Weapon Swap
    DW bar: Heavy Attack (HA) --> Rending Slashes --> HA --> Deadly Cloak --> HA --> Shrouded Daggers --> HA --> Hurricane --> Weapon Swap --> LA

    Repeat until boss is dead. For trash pulls before bosses, activating Deadly Cloak and Hurricane before doing just your bow bar rotation will usually be enough in normal dungeons.

    CP Allocation and Attributes:
    Your current CP setup isn't as good as it could be. You're occasionally investing into areas that do nothing for you (e.g. Resistant is for PVP crit resistance, and you're a PVE damage dealer -- there's no crit damage dealt to you in PVE).

    Try following Alcast's CP recommendations for 300 CP (https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-sorcerer-build-pve/) as a base line, and then add your remaining points into other constellations included in the CP 750 setup (e.g. Master-at-Arms and Physical Weapon Expert). It's kind of tough to optimize your CP for you when I'm not sure what you'll be wearing, but this will at least give you a very basic idea. You'll also be better off when you stop spending points on useless things like Resistant, Healthy, and Medium Armour Focus.

    Attributes: all stamina, so long as your health with food sits at 16-17k or higher. You'd probably be better off sticking with your current food, as it should give you enough health to get to that 16k minimum.

    Sorry for being long-winded, but hopefully it's clear enough to follow. :) Keep in mind that my recommendations aren't going to take you to 30k plus, but they should hopefully at least push you over the 20k mark, which is fine for easier vet dungeons. 30k plus with your class/race combo would require access to gear that might be unrealistic for you to attain right now, like certain monster sets, and dungeon/trial sets. Focus on the stuff you can easily change now (e.g. CP allocation, weapon glyphs, skill setups) and acquire gear at your own pace. Most importantly, start practicing your rotation on a dummy, and start working towards getting Caltrops. As I said, Battlegrounds are a relatively painless way to level up your Alliance ranks, and once you have Caltrops, you never have to touch PVP again.

    Keep in mind, too, that even if you suddenly were to gain access to 750 CP and best in slot trial gear overnight, you won't go from 15k DPS to 35K+ DPS in a single day without a good rotation and lots of practice. Just keep at it, and try not to get discouraged. I struggled too, at first, and got kicked from dungeons -- we all do. And then we get better.


    Thanks!! This is the most in depth help I have EVER received. I really appreciate you taking the time to help with this, and I will definitely be making the immediate changes. I've been nervous to do battlegrounds, but if the expectations are low, I will definitely check them out.. I might actually enjoy them (who knows!)
    @Zhaedri PC NA

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