This is why YOU get kicked for being low CP or bad at DPS/Heals/Tank

Smasherx74

So past few days I decided to start going on my healer toon, trying to get as many crystals as I possibly can to finish my PVE DPS build. I've came to the realization that most peoples DPS is damn near non-existent. As a DPS even a low cp20 dps without any AOE can manage to be pulled through on my back, I mean it's not like every dungeon requires 4 people to complete on vet, at least not the vanilla ones. So I never had an issue with people, I would never vote kick people out unless they were intentionally stupid. However now my minds changed, I'm absolutely fed up with it.

For the third day in a row on my healer, I get put into a veteran group with terrible DPS. One day despite maintaining minor berserk, minor and major resolve/ward, and keeping major breach applied all damn near 24/7, I was told I'm useless. The DPS was absolutely terrible despite me doing my best to keep their resources up, and keep the buffs/debuffs up, all while healing these people. The tank is doing absolutely nothing but standing there occasionally applying taunt, the DPS is spamming light attacks, and I'm told I'm useless. I don't have to say, I left that group I wasn't going to be criticized by a bunch of casuals who have little to no understanding of how the game work, I even went out of my way to explain to the DPS they needed an AOE ability, tried to explain to the Tank he had to aggro ads, did my absolute best to keep group alive yet I'm useless because "they didn't need heals".

Now today, another terrible group. DPS does literally no AOE, most likely pulling under 10k single target, they appear to have no rotation, they're not maintaining DoTs or buffs/debuffs. I'm sitting here watching these people play and just hoping to god they'll figure it out and pull in more DPS. They were both above cp160 this time, in fact one was near max level. Yet the DPS was still terrible, even if one DPS was somewhat competent at their role it would have been much faster, yet it wasn't. It was like the DPS were two brand new players with no idea what they're doing, they're struggling to cut down trash mobs, and on the final boss of banished cells they aren't listening to me about the bubbles, they keep killing the ads and when they dont kill the ads they let too many pile up, the tank is bringing the ads near the boss and letting a few run off. The DPS is so minuscule I as a WARDEN HEALER am the one having to destroy the orbs because their DPS is so *** low they couldn't even prevent the boss from healing.

It's an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE to roll as anything BUT a DPS now in days. Now I've always been the guy to go after whoever was slandering the baggage in the group. In fact as my main DPS the other day I had a cp20 dps with me who was doing no DPS at all, and he ended up getting locked out the final boss so I completed it myself with the tank and healer. They wanted to kick the guy for not knowing what hes doing and having low dps, but I defended him and gave him a basic rundown. But now, I'm tired of it. No more Mr. NicePUG. The past three days I've been put into a group with a bad DPS on my healer. And I'm not having it anymore, I understand 100% why people vote low levels and low DPS bad roles. It's because of the people I've been having to deal with these past few days. I'm aware there are low CP DPS that are actually competent and can pull out as much DPS as their gear will allow them to. But guess what? I'm not risking ti anymore, I'm not going to waste 30mins to an hour on a group that struggled to cut down trash mobs or follow basic mechanics.

So now, if you're a low CP, or just bad at the game in general and we're que'd together, I'm kicking you. If the group doesn't want to kick you then I'm finding a new one. If the entire group is bad/low CP, then I'm finding a new one. I'll wait my 15 minutes for a reque because YOU'LL still be on the first trash mob within that time frame. If people want to come onto the forums and *** and complain about being kicked from a group because they're a khajiit mage, low CP. or bad at the game then how about getting good, leveling up, and not using a *** build? It's really not hard, you can pull a bare minimum of 20k DPS with any class at any level. The only excuse is incompetence, there are plenty of public builds to base on one. There is plenty of information on how to pull more DPS. A tank or healer, they don't even have to help the group to finish a dungeon, sure it's extremely helpful to contribute resources and keep buffs/debuffs, but is it really needed? No. A DPS however, guess what if you can't do AOE damage it's not going to work. If you can pull a minuscule 20k single target dps, it's not going to work. Go role as a Healer or a Tank and get good at that, you'll get a group faster and you'll save people like me from having our time wasted on you not knowing how to play your role properly. The DPS in this game is the hardest role, a healer/tank can run through a dungeon just as quickly as a really good healer/tank, but a bad DPS cannot even compete with a good DPS. So please, if you're one of these people and reading this, LEARN TO DPS, get a build that you can at least pull 20k. You can even go around grabbing random sets and you'll manage to be a tolerable DPS. Just for the love of god stop this low DPS arguably FAKE DPS *** in ques.

When I'm the person of all people saying this, you know there's a problem.


Update: People who are missing the point here, this is a justification for why so called "elitists" do things such as kicking low CP players. The vast majority cause scenarios as stated above, after getting tired of this constantly happening I've decided that I too will do what many would consider "elitist" action. I'm not saying everyone should have the same build, im not saying you need to be max CP. I'm simply making the point due to the abundance of low CP and even medium CP players performing so poorly some vet dungeons are quite literally impossible, I'm personally going to kick/leave groups with bad and or low CP players. I'm expressing the fact I understand the perspective of your so called elitists, I used to be totally against it. However as I said, due to the abundance of people who just perform adequately enough, you will be kicked. The reason WHY these players and now myself will kick you is because of the majority of players at your level perform poorly. There is no reason to risk a dungeon wipe, and keep good DPS out of the que waiting for dozens of minutes to get into one despite it only going to take them a few minutes to complete the dungeon. If you can't learn, or put the time and effort into getting better, then you don't deserve that DPS spot. There are plenty of average to moderately good players who want that spot you're holding up. We have normal/vet dungeons for a reason, if you're constantly holding pugs back or getting wiped/kicked because of your lack of dps, then you are the one who is being the *** here. I've defended a lot of people and pulled them through on my back, but when it repeatedly happens there is only so much blame the person kicking them can take. The person who isn't performing well enough has to accept the blame at some point. You can't keep stealing money from your parents as a child, eventually you have to fess up and accept your fault. A great quote some of you may not know of: "If you make a mistake, if you understand why it was a mistake, it can always be fixed."

Ihatenightblades

Ya when i pug and notice a slow burn on firsr ad pull i leave. Takes me nomore than 10-15 minutes to complete a vet dungeon non dlc. Anything longer than that is a waste of time rather be doing something else.

I have 7 dps who all hit over 40k this patch there is no reason for a dps to be hitting under 30. 30k dps is weak sauce but atleast it will get you through dugeon at a reasonable time

Taleof2Cities

I have a one sentence solution to your 5 paragraph essay:

Don't pug dungeons or use the dungeon finder.

DanteYoda

Be more patient, Stop being aholes..

Pink_Violinz

I'm really glad someone came and said this. I'll never understand why some people avoid the "meta" like the plague. Fine, you don't want to use sets that will give you the best damage. But if you aren't performing up to par for the sake of being unique, I have no time to put up with your 15k dps.

redspecter23

DanteYoda wrote: »

Be more patient, Stop being aholes..

You're right. The low cp, low dps players definitely need some patience. They need to learn some skills and rotations to up their dps so they won't be an *** to the pug group they join and drag down.

Aesthier

Dully noted good sir!

I applaud you for setting your criteria and giving notice.


I have never complained about being kicked from groups for being low DPS a bad tank or...well let's face it I don't have a healer yet.

I do try to keep to the meta as close as I can but frankly, my capabilities are only just now getting into the vet range so not having the "META" gear can be a hindrance.


So if you have to kick me or leave my group I completely understand and I will take no offense to it.

Just be aware that under my own declaration I do and will continue to use dungeon finder regardless of your feelings.

ItsNebula

Idk how DPS are still trash in this day and age of ESO. If you cant pull at least 30k DPS in this patch, just dont DPS. 30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready. Hell, ive never played MagBlade before yesterday, threw together the BIS and was able to parse a 35k with about 10mins of rotation practice. DPS is super easy, and if you cant pull at LEAST 30k DPS, you have no room to tell others how to do there job. Especially if youre a casual still stuck in the light/heavy attack phase from Skyrim, lmfao

Edit; fixed grammar

ItsNebula

Pink_Violinz wrote: »

I'm really glad someone came and said this. I'll never understand why some people avoid the "meta" like the plague. Fine, you don't want to use sets that will give you the best damage. But if you aren't performing up to par for the sake of being unique, I have no time to put up with your 15k dps.

couldnt have said it better myself. Idk why some people want to be "special" and throw together some BS that can parse 15k, when you can get the BIS, learn the rotation of your class, and parse 50k (very doable this patch with just about every class if done correctly)

TheInfernalRage

Played with a group in Banished Cells II as well. I was on my NB Tank. At best our DPS was around 32-35k. I was patient. All the boss fights felt like forever. Fortunately, my wife arrived and gave me an excuse to leave the group after the second wipe out at the last boss.

I am not into the "meta" because they are game enders, but if your build does not make any sense, just admit you're doing something wrong. For example, I was with a Cloudrest group and began to notice the less than average DPS that we are having. Then I saw a magicka nightblade (with a lightning staff) with limbs growing out of his back. How can someone use Kragh on a magicka build attacking within a long range distance?

Again, I'm not into the "meta" but I have to draw a line somehow. Players should know how to build by managing their stats. One should know at least how much penetration one needs, how much crit rate can this build be effective, how much crit damage is needed, etc. When a magicka build is using a monster set for physical penetration with a need to be in a melee range to be effective, sure that's not "meta" but that's not making any sense at all. Or am I missing something about the Kragh set?

VaranisArano

I highly advise players who are new to group dungeons to know how much DPS they do (addons on PC/training dummy on console) and queue for content accordingly.

You don't have to do amazing DPS to start doing group dungeons. 7k to 15k DPS is pretty solid for most normal dungeons, but you are going to have to up your game to do Vet dungeons or Trials, and you'll never improve if you don't know how much DPS you do.

Seri

I empathise with you. I hate kicking players because they need the experience. Can't get the experience if you're always being kicked. If you're always being kicked you'll eventually hit CP max rank still without dungeon experience. Then you get people wondering why max-CP players don't know how to do vet dungeons.

It's also why I stopped PUG-ing on my healer a couple of patches ago - if I got a bad roll of the group finder, I don't have the time to be in vet FG1, doing 50% of group DPS on my healer... Occasionally I'll still PUG on support role if I have one DPS buddy with me, but otherwise I only queue (if I even queue) on my own DPS where at least the vanilla dungeons will be completable.

GawdSB

I have a templar that I wanna make a healer, I started trying to farm for sanctuary and I don't I ever noticed how bad the other players are. I'm trying to hurry with this Banished Cells I should be something we fly through, but I constantly get put on teams with low CP players and not only that they're queuing for the wrong roles so the tank dies in like 5 seconds on every boss.

It's incredibly frustrating. It's basically I'm doing dps and the other healer while the other two are dead (I do res but they just die on first hit once again).

Had to solo dark shade caverns final boss the other day because my whole team kept dying.

radiostar

Have to say the last couple pugs I did on my tank and healer were pretty good. We got everything finished with only a couple deaths, and everyone pitched in to rez. Not bad, really!

However, yes, I've been on those smack my head ones too

Waffennacht

The tank that just taunts is infuriating. Anyone can do that. Required 100% devotion to keep his ass alive.

Why I never do healer.

JumpmanLane

Never do dungeons with strangers. Only let a pug in if just to fill out the queue then vote and kick the extra immediately. Life will be simpler.

LeagueTroll

redspecter23 wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

Be more patient, Stop being aholes..

You're right. The low cp, low dps players definitely need some patience. They need to learn some skills and rotations to up their dps so they won't be an *** to the pug group they join and drag down.

Indeed. Kicking low dps need to become a more common practice so dps que can be faster.

dem0n1k

I've done all the non-dlc vet dungeons in the game with 2 x DPS that were pulling less than 15k DPS on the 3m target dummy.... just sayin' This was with friends though... no pugs.

Soella

Smasherx74 wrote: »

For the third day in a row on my healer, I get put into a veteran group with terrible DPS. One day despite maintaining minor berserk, minor and major resolve/ward, and keeping major breach applied all damn near 24/7, I was told I'm useless.

Actually, with all due respect, all you efforts was useless. It make sense to buff group DPS if it is already high. If it is low much more effective to DPS.

idk

I just read the first few sentences of OP long statement since is was rather long.

I can state his title is pretty wrong since I have seen low CP players out dps most CP capped players I have found in random GF groups.

OP is correct we find low DPS players in random groups and it was that way before CP was introduced. However he is incorrect that it is because of CP since it is mostly due to skill level.

I like to do random dungeons on a healer because I can out dps most groups I find in random groups and still keep hots and such rolling. It goes a long way to the group being successful.

Malacthulhu

I find the end boss in banished cells 2 more annoying with a poor tank then poor dps.

AuldWolf

It makes my head spin.

I've never known any other game where sociopaths come forward and freely admit their toxicity and elitism to everyone. What do you think that publicly embodying the dark triad gets you? This 'YOU' nonsense, especially.

This is what's killing the trial scene, and it's what will put the final nail in the coffin. This is why people don't play trials, because they're forced to group with people like the OP. ZeniMax needs to take the forced grouping element away by having trials scale tot he number of people entering, with the minimum number being 1 or 2 people. This way, people can get together to have a fun dungeon run in any number, but they aren't forced to group with a person like the OP.

Removing forced grouping from trials is the only way to cut away this toxicity from the game. The trial scene is only going to continue to implode, and threads like this will continue to be posted right up until the trial scene completely dies off and only sociopathic people are running it. I suspect we're pretty close to that point already.

ZOS is doing themselves no favours by catering to this crowd. It looks bad for the game.

ezio45

Ya doing dungeons can be pretty toxic lol I have given up pugs for a long time now, even if i really need stuff from on and cant find anyone to run it with.

Not really sure what the solution is, other than dont run pugs which is sound advice but not a good alternative.

Smasherx74

Soella wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

For the third day in a row on my healer, I get put into a veteran group with terrible DPS. One day despite maintaining minor berserk, minor and major resolve/ward, and keeping major breach applied all damn near 24/7, I was told I'm useless.

Actually, with all due respect, all you efforts was useless. It make sense to buff group DPS if it is already high. If it is low much more effective to DPS.

Guess you missed the part where I mentioned I was on a magden.

Smasherx74

idk wrote: »

I just read the first few sentences of OP long statement since is was rather long.

I can state his title is pretty wrong since I have seen low CP players out dps most CP capped players I have found in random GF groups.

OP is correct we find low DPS players in random groups and it was that way before CP was introduced. However he is incorrect that it is because of CP since it is mostly due to skill level.

I like to do random dungeons on a healer because I can out dps most groups I find in random groups and still keep hots and such rolling. It goes a long way to the group being successful.

Maybe read the whole thread instead of saying "I read a few sentences, OP is wrong"

FrancisCrawford

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Never do dungeons with strangers. Only let a pug in if just to fill out the queue then vote and kick the extra immediately. Life will be simpler.

Are you serious?

Kadoin

I don't kick low CP players, but I know exactly what you mean. Don't get me started on the "DPS" using SnB when I'M the tank messing up aggro, the "healers" using only class heal and then crying "no magicka," DPS with 0 DoTs and 0 AoEs...and some of these guys are CP 750! You literally have to see it to believe it. I honestly go to group finder for laughs these days, but I'm not disappointed when there is nothing to laugh at and things go without problems.

LeagueTroll

AuldWolf wrote: »

It makes my head spin.

I've never known any other game where sociopaths come forward and freely admit their toxicity and elitism to everyone. What do you think that publicly embodying the dark triad gets you? This 'YOU' nonsense, especially.

This is what's killing the trial scene, and it's what will put the final nail in the coffin. This is why people don't play trials, because they're forced to group with people like the OP. ZeniMax needs to take the forced grouping element away by having trials scale tot he number of people entering, with the minimum number being 1 or 2 people. This way, people can get together to have a fun dungeon run in any number, but they aren't forced to group with a person like the OP.

Removing forced grouping from trials is the only way to cut away this toxicity from the game. The trial scene is only going to continue to implode, and threads like this will continue to be posted right up until the trial scene completely dies off and only sociopathic people are running it. I suspect we're pretty close to that point already.

ZOS is doing themselves no favours by catering to this crowd. It looks bad for the game.

You want a game without ‘toxicity’, it’s called goat simulator on top of that it has no ‘bug’. Trial scene in eso is more than fine.

If you don’t believe dps req should exist for dmg dealers, i have to say then req for tank and healer should not exist either, tank and healer should just run around do nothing.

TheDarkShadow

People wonder why no tank queue in group finder. This is the reason.

I did a Wayrest Sewers the other day on dps doing 80% damage the whole dungeon while trying to avoid boss aggro because tank keep losing it and rezzing people because they keep dying by mechanics. I patiently carried them the whole way, not say a word. At the end, I said, word by word: "You guys should not queue for vet dungeon, seriously.", with hope they will understand that they are not ready for vet and not doom another random group. And immediately getting called names *roll eyes*. I just leave without saying anything back because I got what I wanted and it's not worth argue with those people.

As a dps and in an easier dungeon, I can carry those people. It will be a lots slower but whatever, I just keep my mouth shut biting the bullet and do it for the transmute crystals. But if it was a vet DLC or I was a tank, then I'll vote kick or leave. It's not elistist, it's knowing your limit. There is no way I can carry those people through and it's just a waste of time to keep wiping over and over.

dave011

move along all I can see is elitist ***! You queued for a random so you get what you are given you have 2 choices either do your job of f off

idk

Smasherx74 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I just read the first few sentences of OP long statement since is was rather long.

I can state his title is pretty wrong since I have seen low CP players out dps most CP capped players I have found in random GF groups.

OP is correct we find low DPS players in random groups and it was that way before CP was introduced. However he is incorrect that it is because of CP since it is mostly due to skill level.

I like to do random dungeons on a healer because I can out dps most groups I find in random groups and still keep hots and such rolling. It goes a long way to the group being successful.

Maybe read the whole thread instead of saying "I read a few sentences, OP is wrong"

to long. Maybe get to the point as it is not that complicated of a subject.

But again, the title is wrong. People do not kick others because they have low CP. They kick low CP because the person doing the kicking lacks a basic understanding of the game.