"Racial passives are fine already! Don't need to touch them" - Says every altmer/dunmer

cyclonus11 · July 2018

No. Just remove passives from Altmer and Dunmer and keep everyone else's.

TheShadowScout · July 2018

Benemime wrote: »

My solution:
Remove the current racial passives entirely...

...and then remove the "Elder Scrolls" from the game name, because it would no longer be an elder scrolls game.

Face it, TES games -always- had racial differences of some sort. Always had altmer bettwe at magic then orcs, and redguards better at swords then bretons, and nords better ar being tough northmen then... anyone else.

Are the current "percentage points on top" passives the best way to depict that?
HELL NO!
Personally I would change that to pre-assigned attribute points instead, and then add a new set of passives that -would- be freely selectable which bring the percentage boni... "upbringing" passives, like... grow up in a scholar family among books and stuff, gain magica bonus from all that learning, grow up in a warrior family with daily weapons training, gain stamina bonus, grow up as outcast roughing it in the wilds, gain health bonus...

p00tx · July 2018

I think a lot of us are experiencing the same thing with this...

"What?!? What a terribly stupid terrible idea. It's...it's...huh. Well shoot. I'm actually into this".

I main an Argonian, and have since the days of "Argonians are trash!", and I've watched the gradual rise of the expected "OMG...nerf dis!" posts when people started to realize Argonians weren't actually a bad race for healers. If we employed a fully customizable build menu, it would (hopefully) stop the gross majority of the nerf-herders from complaining about the imbalance issues. The only fault for failure would then lie with them for failing to build their character properly. I love my Argonian and the competitive edge it gives me, but I'd gladly give up that edge to see the other underperforming races get some much needed balancing options (goodbye beautiful potion passive).

Really great idea!

Tandor · July 2018

themaddaedra wrote: »

That's a disgusting way of homogenizing the game, and killing TES lore. Big no.

Every race has it's own, i have 8 characters and they are divided into 6 races. All comfy and good.

If you want to feel like a mage, then be a mage. I mean you can't make your own choice then complain that it doesn't fit well, because it's completely on your hands to not choose what fits well.

I wholly agree.

If you're not an ultra-competitive player then racial choice won't matter, regardless of the different passives. If you are an ultra-competitive player then you will choose the best race for your proposed build having full regard to the passives. It's as simple as that. It doesn't need radical changing, although I'm certainly not averse to a bit of fine-tuning in terms of racial balance, but there's no need at all to tear up the whole system and start over.

Riptide · July 2018

Mixed feelings. The fact is that if you play a race that doesn’t mix with your role you are hurting your teamates over a selfish aesthetic choice, and so most team players don’t do that. For good reason. And it is entirely reasonable to select the best race that benefits the class/role.

And therin is the actual homogenization.

Removing all racial passives too far though, no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Redo the passives to not affect combat, or at least, not so directly magicka or stamina related so that we get what we have now, where most races fit one or the other.

Things like Argonian swim speed are excellent racial passives that any toon can use. Percentage increases in stats is lazy and gets us what we have here.

But 3 things along the line of swim speed per race be fun and level the playing field, generate diversity of builds etc while maintaining importance of choice.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

AS A KHAJIIT I WANT A MAGICKA PASSIVE FFS.

Mettaricana · July 2018

I feel like they should remove all racial passives and just up our base stam and mag a little to compensate the sudden loss.

Cuz not gonna lie half the game contradicts itself all bretons are warriors and knights never mages like their racials say, nords always being the barbarion two hander mauling badass racials say lousy tank, all dunmer seem to be ninja assasins when honestly cats and bosmer make better racially, arc mage shalidor is a nord master wizard.. its like drop the racials buff the base stats a bit and let us play out khajiit and nord mages and altmer breton warriors

DenMoria · July 2018

From reading some of these responses, I am getting the idea that some feel that actually choosing to play the game the way YOU want to play the game (the race you want, the class you want, the behavior you want, the aesthetic you want, etc.) is not acceptable despite the sale point of the game "Play as you want" existing?

It seems like the only purpose of character creation now is to choose a Meta build, Meta rotation, Meta equipment and Meta behavior that will satisfy the needs of other players?

I'm confused.

While, if I want to play a Khajiit Healing Sorcerer, it may not be the ultimate "best meta build", why is it so wrong?

I guess, if I'm playing to make myself happy it doesn't really matter, yes? I must assimilate?

That's a sorry state to be in for any ES game who pride themselves for their RP opportunities, but I suppose I can understand in the context of an MMO that it's not about actually having fun, it's about supporting your "team" and "doing what is required".

Maybe I Just don't work well as support staff. Probably why I gave up being a waiter.

DenMoria · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

AS A KHAJIIT I WANT A MAGICKA PASSIVE FFS.

But, according to another thread, you have no need since you are not allowed to use much magicka since it wouldn't support your team by maximizing your strengths.

Riptide · July 2018

DenMoria wrote: »

It seems like the only purpose of character creation now is to choose a Meta build, Meta rotation, Meta equipment and Meta behavior that will satisfy the needs of other players?

I'm confused.

You aren’t confused, just being obtuse and passive aggressive.

When you are fighting vet content, much less progression content - 10% means your teamates living or dying. When you show up to the game and your 1st baseman is wearing a golf glove rather than a mitt, because they want to be a unique snowflake, he’s being inconsiderate. Not the team who asks him to please suit up to win.

You can pretend that dynamic doesn’t exist if you like, and of course it doesn’t overland or in normal content. But at endgame you suit up to help your fellow teamates. Its not about you anymore.

Acrolas · July 2018

"You walk the narrow path that cuts between glory and sacrifice - valor and patience. You measure your pursuit of honor with reason and foresight."
— Throne Keeper Farvad

A lot of passives threads boil down to caring too much about what others think. If you want to play a Magicka Redguard or a Stamina Breton, play them. You can always set aside one cookie cutter character to run content with the more obnoxious numberbros. Or, like, group with people who care more about the experience than the output data.

DenMoria · July 2018

Riptide wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

It seems like the only purpose of character creation now is to choose a Meta build, Meta rotation, Meta equipment and Meta behavior that will satisfy the needs of other players?

I'm confused.

You aren’t confused, just being obtuse and passive aggressive.

When you are fighting vet content, much less progression content - 10% means your teamates living or dying. When you show up to the game and your 1st baseman is wearing a golf glove rather than a mitt, because they want to be a unique snowflake, he’s being inconsiderate. Not the team who asks him to please suit up to win.

You can pretend that dynamic doesn’t exist if you like, and of course it doesn’t overland or in normal content. But at endgame you suit up to help your fellow teamates. Its not about you anymore.

I don't mean to, but, as I said at the end of that post, I understand the MMO mentality. After all, a true MMO is all about team-work, be it PvE or PvP content. You should do your best to support your Team. That just makes sense.

I just question the "Meta" requirements in a game that was specifically marketed as "Play as you want to play" and "It's all about choice".

I hope you know that this is not a slam against anything you're saying. It makes perfect sense in the "MMO" sensibility and that is the way it has always been.

The issue comes about due to Zeni's marketing of the game. "It can be played Solo!" has been trumpeted. "You can play however you want!"; "You can choose any of 10 separate races!" even the endorsed "schools" and training encourage you to experiment and choose the skills you want.

But that's not the truth, is it? Your build should closely resemble the "Meta" build if you truly want to make your mark and contribute greatly to your team.

I just wish more people knew it.

Personally, I love ES because you can be anyone who does anything. You can be an Orc Sorcerer or a Heavy-Armor Wood Elf. But that doesn't work in ESO, despite what they would like you to believe.

Again, I make fun of Meta builds as many who insist upon them are the most arrogant people around, but, frankly, they're not wrong.

These builds work. These builds strengthen teams. Sure they may not be how YOU as an individual want to play, but, since you are playing an MMO and the entire point is to be a "Team", suck it up and do it.

I guess I'm more resentful of Zeni than I am of the top-tier and Meta players. The players know what works. Zeni should listen to them.

LeHarrt91 · July 2018

PlagueSD wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

My Breton says leave my passives alone!

Seriously, if we had a smorgasbord of passives to choose from there would still be meta as most would pick the best passives for their role.

And leave my Argonian swim speed passive alone

I have to agree. If we let everyone choose their racials, everyone would be the same and the only thing race would do is determine what your character would look like.

If I was able to pick my 4 racial passives, I'd definitely be OP - especially on a Stam character.

Stam character: (total: +40% health recovery, 10% stamina recovery, 6% Max health, 16% Max stamina)
Nimble - Increases your Health Recovery by 20% and Stamina Recovery by 10%.
Conditioning - Increases Max Stamina by 10%
Brawny - Increases Max Health and Max Stamina by 6%
Stalwart - Increases Max Stamina by 6% and Health Recovery by 20%.

Magicka character: (total: +25% max magicka, max stamina 6%, 9% magicka recovery, +4% flame/frost/shock damage)
Gift of Magnus - Increases Max Magicka by 10%
Spellcharge - Increased Magicka Recovery by 9%
Elemental Talent - Increases your Flame, Frost and Shock Damage by 4%.
Dynamic - Increases Max Magicka and Max Stamina by 6%.

I think it would have to be split into categories so that this doesn't happen. So you can only choose 3, 1 max resource passive, 1 sustain passive and 1 talent passive (more damage/ less damage/ sneak)

And then you could even expand and add a magic damage passive for Magicka Wardens

JobooAGS · July 2018

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

My solution:
Remove the current racial passives entirely...

...and then remove the "Elder Scrolls" from the game name, because it would no longer be an elder scrolls game.

Face it, TES games -always- had racial differences of some sort. Always had altmer bettwe at magic then orcs, and redguards better at swords then bretons, and nords better ar being tough northmen then... anyone else.

Are the current "percentage points on top" passives the best way to depict that?
HELL NO!
Personally I would change that to pre-assigned attribute points instead, and then add a new set of passives that -would- be freely selectable which bring the percentage boni... "upbringing" passives, like... grow up in a scholar family among books and stuff, gain magica bonus from all that learning, grow up in a warrior family with daily weapons training, gain stamina bonus, grow up as outcast roughing it in the wilds, gain health bonus...

Except in previous elder scrolls games, racials were insignificant to meaningless in endgame

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

DenMoria wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

AS A KHAJIIT I WANT A MAGICKA PASSIVE FFS.

But, according to another thread, you have no need since you are not allowed to use much magicka since it wouldn't support your team by maximizing your strengths.

Is this seriously the way of thinking nowadays?

You play a stam race, so you play stam or you get kicked?

Screw this community.

JobooAGS · July 2018

I personally would rather have racials to either not be combat oriented or to have one, race defining racial and have them be insignificant for endgame

BuddyAces · July 2018

Will never turn down the opportunity to post in these topics. I hate how stam is pigeon holed into redguard. Sure I could use any class but I really don't feel like gimping meself. If there's one thing I had power to change it would be racials.

Riptide · July 2018

DenMoria wrote: »

Again, I make fun of Meta builds as many who insist upon them are the most arrogant people around, but, frankly, they're not wrong.

See, the idea that folks who use and play meta builds, and inist on them for tough content are the most arrogant folks around is just flat out wrong. Some of the most helpful, patient people I’ve met have been endgame trials folks, PVP teams, etc.

Arrogance, rudeness and so forth can be found in all playstyles. And many folks would make the mistake that folks who insist on playing a Khajiit sorc healer are in fact the arrogant ones, who put their own aesthetics above the well being of the group. Who would prefer to wipe multiple times, and cost the entire raid time, over their choices.

Thats not true either, of all folks who are obstinate about it. People are just people, with all perosnality types.

Again, overland, normal dungeons, I’d never consider it much less mention it.

But hard content is hard. Things like VMA you’ll die. Hundreds of times. Many hundreds of times. That is very expensive and hard to do, dying over and over and over. Hundreds of times. You have to adjust, you’ve got to find every advantage you can, especially your first clear.

And vet trials are the same, and you’ll be darned if you are the one responsible for giving everyone that horrid feeling you get after many wipes. Thats arrogance? Not hardly, its selflessness born of experience. And thats the culture of any team, from the military, to sports, to academia, to the corporate world.

But going on a tangent, I agree there could be shifts in how the racials work. And this one would love to play his natural race and not hurt his team

DanteYoda · July 2018

Jolipinator wrote: »

lore

This idea is lore... A race is good at certain things but not every person in said race is good at the same thing.. Specialization is actually more accurate than what we have now to the lore..

Joy_Division wrote: »

No thanks.

I want my choices to matter.

The issue is a lack of balance. Some races are good and some are not.

So pointless game for 6/9 races... Some lore..

Nyladreas · July 2018

Yes, I fully support this idea.

Either that or make racials so that they don't directly affect combat performance at all.

JJBoomer · July 2018

oooh lookie! Another "I don't like this personally, I demand that it be changed to make me happier" thread. amazing.

*snaps safari photo of this overly abundant creature*

Gorilla · July 2018

Good idea. They won't do it though due to Crown store reasons.

bg22 · July 2018

I’d rather see the weaker ones be buffed.

Gorilla · July 2018

PlagueSD wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

My Breton says leave my passives alone!

Seriously, if we had a smorgasbord of passives to choose from there would still be meta as most would pick the best passives for their role.

And leave my Argonian swim speed passive alone

I have to agree. If we let everyone choose their racials, everyone would be the same and the only thing race would do is determine what your character would look like.

If I was able to pick my 4 racial passives, I'd definitely be OP - especially on a Stam character.

Stam character: (total: +40% health recovery, 10% stamina recovery, 6% Max health, 16% Max stamina)
Nimble - Increases your Health Recovery by 20% and Stamina Recovery by 10%.
Conditioning - Increases Max Stamina by 10%
Brawny - Increases Max Health and Max Stamina by 6%
Stalwart - Increases Max Stamina by 6% and Health Recovery by 20%.

Magicka character: (total: +25% max magicka, max stamina 6%, 9% magicka recovery, +4% flame/frost/shock damage)
Gift of Magnus - Increases Max Magicka by 10%
Spellcharge - Increased Magicka Recovery by 9%
Elemental Talent - Increases your Flame, Frost and Shock Damage by 4%.
Dynamic - Increases Max Magicka and Max Stamina by 6%.

While I disagree with your statement (I think it would promote diversity), you just confirmed the OP's premise. So either way...

DoobZ69 · July 2018

All racial passives should accommodate for all playstyles equally - stamina and magicka and dps and healing and tanking and pve and pvp and melee and ranged. This can be done while keeping the flavour of each race to reflect the lore. It isn't rocket science and people who aren't for that are blatant idiots. Until then the idea of balance is out of the question and a fruitless pursuit.

How this is done is up to the developers but many people have made suggestions in the past and some of them have been very good ones. The only reason they don't do this, and I've said this in the past, is because they make money off of people buying race change tokens.

Princess_Ciri · July 2018

just another scrub salty that they're not as good as my beautiful high elves

Sylosi · July 2018

DoobZ69 wrote: »

It isn't rocket science and people who aren't for that are blatant idiots.

Irony...

Mattock_Romulus · July 2018

If you remove racials because they may prevent characters from being completely equal you cannot stop there.

You then have to remove skills and passives that are different as some skills are better than others.

Also some classes may be better so make everyone the same class.

What if smaller characters have a pvp advantage because they are hard to see...so make everyone the same height.

Then you have the issue where fat characters may be more intimidating therefore you would have to make characters the same weight...

What if dark dyes make it harder to see an enemy? Remove those and make everyone the same color...

It never ends...

Ohtimbar · July 2018

Nope.

Valkysas154 · July 2018

Would not mind seeing the Wood elfs fall dmg reduction changed from 10% to 25% or more