This is why YOU get kicked for being low CP or bad at DPS/Heals/Tank
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I don't think it's the "playing their roles" thing that bothers people. It seems like it's less about "playing their roles" and more about "Do it exactly as I say it should be done and deal the DPS that I require and wear the gear that I require and behave the way that I require and do exactly what I tell you to when I tell you to and how I tell you to so that I can have fun and I really don't care if you want to, need to or have any fun yourself and, if you argue, I am going to get you kicked".LadyNalcarya wrote: »It's genuinely interesting watching the voices of reason in here interact with the people who have dark triad traits.
Now this is getting ridiculous, really.
If someone wants people in group to play their roles, they must be Satan himself.
Do you really think that dehumanizing people, calling them names, putting lables on them and telling that they're psychopats is normal and even righteous? The witch hunt is real.
You cannot support "friendly pugging" and dehumanize a group of people at the same time ("oh, what do they know, they're just psychos!". It doesnt work like this. Any respect should be mutual first and foremost.
Now, I agree that the game has design issues and the gap between most "casual" and most "hardcore" people is too big, but blaming people is not a solution. It is the worst thing we can do for this already fractured community.
That's what there's too much of.
Maybe we should just take away everything public, random and/or PuG related. Then the issues will be avoided. Just allow grouping based on your Guild or Racial/Geographic affiliation. No more random encounters, no more even making an attempt to interact with people you do not already know or have a vested interest in knowing. That way you'll never have to be exposed to anything that doesn't fit your own narrow view.
It'll work!
But pugs dont require top notch dps or anything like that. No one said that you're not allowed to join groups if you cant pull 50k dps.
"Don't tell me what to do" is a tricky one. Of course, if your build works reasonably well, it would be kinda rude to tell you not to use it because its not Alcasts build or something. But sometimes people use it as an excuse for not learning mechanics, or not using food buffs. I was actively pugging back in IC patch days, and there were people who didnt want to take inhibitor's pinion or close portals no matter what, and attacked those who tried to explain the mechanic. The problem is that one person who doesnt want to learn the mechanics can wipe the whole group.
Also, you dont know me and its not for you to judge how narrow my world view is.Edited by LadyNalcarya on July 6, 2018 5:55PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU2 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »It makes my head spin.
I've never known any other game where sociopaths come forward and freely admit their toxicity and elitism to everyone. What do you think that publicly embodying the dark triad gets you? This 'YOU' nonsense, especially.
This is what's killing the trial scene, and it's what will put the final nail in the coffin. This is why people don't play trials, because they're forced to group with people like the OP. ZeniMax needs to take the forced grouping element away by having trials scale tot he number of people entering, with the minimum number being 1 or 2 people. This way, people can get together to have a fun dungeon run in any number, but they aren't forced to group with a person like the OP.
Removing forced grouping from trials is the only way to cut away this toxicity from the game. The trial scene is only going to continue to implode, and threads like this will continue to be posted right up until the trial scene completely dies off and only sociopathic people are running it. I suspect we're pretty close to that point already.
ZOS is doing themselves no favours by catering to this crowd. It looks bad for the game.
How did this person get a bunch of agrees lmao? I mean, I could have sworn this was a thread about bad dps in group finder.... Not trials.
Because there's a message in it that resonates with people. It likely does so despite of the "toxicity" it contains and not because of it.
You're right, it was about dungeons, not trials, but also not about specific role. This is an equal opportunity "potato" post.0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Holy crap this thread is appalling. The amount of folks screaming "elitists" to people who want nor have the time to spend 3 hours in a dungeon wiping over and over because dps can only pull 10k a piece is scary.
Seriously, it's great that you want to go into vet dungeons in your mixed garb of green/blue gear with no rotation, food, or pots but you are the problem here. Not the so called elitists. A little preparation is required for that stuff and if you can't do it then you don't belong there since all you're doing is wasting time. Join a guild who will carry you through and teach you the basics, there are many (I run one that does just that, shameless plug)!
Btw, before I get attacked, I'm the tank who actually sticks around with bad groups in dungeon finder because it doesn't bug me, find it fun most of the time. Did you know you can wipe on Bloodspawn if your dps are bad? Learned that the hard way not very long ago, stuck around for that till group disbanded. I still get groups who can't get past the second boss of coa2 cuz dps is bad. When I use the dungeon finder I know what I'm getting myself into but to expect people to carry you or have hours to blow while doing a PUG vet dungeon is mind boggling.
I used to be an adventurer like you, but those "anti-elitist" crybullies are the reason why I dont do that anymore. I still like meeting new people, helping new players etc, but this witch hunt is just hideous.
Its just mind blowing how people dont see that blaming people for game design issues is actually toxic. Not to mention bringing up mental issues, this is just plain rude, both to supposedly "elitist" players and people with real mental issues.
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU6 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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What are you talking about, this gear isn't hard to get it drops from normal cloudrest which is easy as hell. Zaan you can get from the chests, it's just the helmet that is difficult to get but still not that difficult.Olen_Mikko wrote: »adeptusminor wrote: »adriant1978 wrote: »
It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults
Yea, with zaan and bis gear. How can you think casual without basic understanding of veteran stuff etc, could achieve them?
You know, that just shows how far away from realism you elitists have wandered.
What is easy to you, might be too hard and therefore not interesting enough to complete for some.
#MOREORBS1 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭The game definitely needs a way to promote role education. Whether that’s some sort of advanced in game tutorial that explains how a basic rotation works and the need for aoe and single target abilities along with providing basic damage set suggestions, or ZOS should somehow do a better job pointing people toward content creators like Alcast who do a great job taking people step by step. But I don’t see that it would be so hard to have an instanced area with an NPC for each role and a target skele that either needs to be kept alive, DPS’d or taunted. How hard would it be to suggest a basic magicka or stamina rotation, teach people to use a taunt or a healing rotation. The NPC couple then advise people to try basic five piece crafted sets like hundings or julianos along with agility or willpower jewelry to get started in DPS, whatever five piece tank crafted set is best and endurance jewelry, introduce a good beginner 5 pc healing set and set people on the path to success. The NPC could even suggest joining a guild and asking the advice of guild mates to promote the social aspect.
You could take that even further.
How about a serious of increasingly difficult activities tied to your proposed role that reward a piece of Hundings or Julianos for Completing.
That way after 12 tests a player has the knowledge and at least a basic set gear aimed at that role.
Make it a quest you receive at 160cp, so the gear stays useful to you.
Heck it may encourage people to do it for all 3 roles and therefore think what people’s or in the other roles have to do.Edited by Guppet on July 6, 2018 6:23PM1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The game definitely needs a way to promote role education. Whether that’s some sort of advanced in game tutorial that explains how a basic rotation works and the need for aoe and single target abilities along with providing basic damage set suggestions, or ZOS should somehow do a better job pointing people toward content creators like Alcast who do a great job taking people step by step. But I don’t see that it would be so hard to have an instanced area with an NPC for each role and a target skele that either needs to be kept alive, DPS’d or taunted. How hard would it be to suggest a basic magicka or stamina rotation, teach people to use a taunt or a healing rotation. The NPC couple then advise people to try basic five piece crafted sets like hundings or julianos along with agility or willpower jewelry to get started in DPS, whatever five piece tank crafted set is best and endurance jewelry, introduce a good beginner 5 pc healing set and set people on the path to success. The NPC could even suggest joining a guild and asking the advice of guild mates to promote the social aspect.
Since the game is sold as a "Play as you want" game, doesn't it kind of make it tough to do "role education"? You can't both play as you want and fit in to some narrow mold set for you at the same time, unless, of course, playing as you want means that you fit in to some kind of specific role.
"Play as you want" doesnt mean that you can ignore everything and do random stuff.
Dark Souls, for example, is one the most "play as you want" games, you can beat it with any kind of build, even competely naked or without leveling at all. But its not the easiest game on the market and if you do random stuff while playing it, you'll probably die.
In TESO, you can play all classes as magicka or stamina dds, healers or tanks. So you can play as you want. Some options are better than the others, though, but it was the case even in Skyrim.Edited by LadyNalcarya on July 6, 2018 6:25PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU8 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »
I don't think it's the "playing their roles" thing that bothers people. It seems like it's less about "playing their roles" and more about "Do it exactly as I say it should be done and deal the DPS that I require and wear the gear that I require and behave the way that I require and do exactly what I tell you to when I tell you to and how I tell you to so that I can have fun and I really don't care if you want to, need to or have any fun yourself and, if you argue, I am going to get you kicked".LadyNalcarya wrote: »It's genuinely interesting watching the voices of reason in here interact with the people who have dark triad traits.
Now this is getting ridiculous, really.
If someone wants people in group to play their roles, they must be Satan himself.
Do you really think that dehumanizing people, calling them names, putting lables on them and telling that they're psychopats is normal and even righteous? The witch hunt is real.
You cannot support "friendly pugging" and dehumanize a group of people at the same time ("oh, what do they know, they're just psychos!". It doesnt work like this. Any respect should be mutual first and foremost.
Now, I agree that the game has design issues and the gap between most "casual" and most "hardcore" people is too big, but blaming people is not a solution. It is the worst thing we can do for this already fractured community.
That's what there's too much of.
Maybe we should just take away everything public, random and/or PuG related. Then the issues will be avoided. Just allow grouping based on your Guild or Racial/Geographic affiliation. No more random encounters, no more even making an attempt to interact with people you do not already know or have a vested interest in knowing. That way you'll never have to be exposed to anything that doesn't fit your own narrow view.
It'll work!
But pugs dont require top notch dps or anything like that. No one said that you're not allowed to join groups if you cant pull 50k dps.
"Don't tell me what to do" is a tricky one. Of course, if your build works reasonably well, it would be kinda rude to tell you not to use it because its not Alcasts build or something. But sometimes people use it as an excuse for not learning mechanics, or not using food buffs. I was actively pugging back in IC patch days, and there were people who didnt want to take inhibitor's pinion or close portals no matter what, and attacked those who tried to explain the mechanic. The problem is that one person who doesnt want to learn the mechanics can wipe the whole group.
Also, you dont know me and its not for you to judge how narrow my world view is.
Hey! I'm a WASP! It's my job to judge how narrow your world view is! I'm usually wrong 'cause, like I said, I'm a WASP, but, hey - don't deny me my job.
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yurimodin✭✭✭alecfenstermakerub17_ESO wrote: »Something I think a lot of newer players overlook is the use of a gaming mouse like the razer naga, hex or trinity. I cannot imagine trying to pull good dps with weaving and animation canceling and being able to position my character without having this kind of mouse. Unfortunately, investing in a $80 or more mouse is just not in the cards for some people.
Recently had a guild mate struggling to get to 30k. Went out and bought a trinity and immediately improved (a day or two since they can take some getting used to) to just over 30k. If memory is correct, it increased his numbers by around 4k.
not going to condone bad behavior(the M word) but you don't need expensive hardware to accomplish the same thing.....FYI I play with a controller 100% legit because I believe in playing fair. Had a very good guildmate get one shotted HARD in Cyrodiil. He said the kill log showed:
LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>
all within less than 1.5 seconds....
only one way that happens......the M word.2 -
Rhaeger183Soul Shrivenalecfenstermakerub17_ESO wrote: »Something I think a lot of newer players overlook is the use of a gaming mouse like the razer naga, hex or trinity. I cannot imagine trying to pull good dps with weaving and animation canceling and being able to position my character without having this kind of mouse. Unfortunately, investing in a $80 or more mouse is just not in the cards for some people.
Recently had a guild mate struggling to get to 30k. Went out and bought a trinity and immediately improved (a day or two since they can take some getting used to) to just over 30k. If memory is correct, it increased his numbers by around 4k.
not going to condone bad behavior(the M word) but you don't need expensive hardware to accomplish the same thing.....FYI I play with a controller 100% legit because I believe in playing fair. Had a very good guildmate get one shotted HARD in Cyrodiil. He said the kill log showed:
LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>
all within less than 1.5 seconds....
only one way that happens......the M word.
Where did I say anything about macro's? that has nothing to do with it, the fact is that its much easier to move with wasd left hand while aiming and using abilities with right hand mouse than it is to try and use abilities, move with the left hand.
I forgot that a controller is a completely viable option. But for mouse and keyboard, I dont see how you can play really well without some kind of gaming mouse.
It just makes it easier, is all I was trying to say. Macros have nothing to do with it and are in fact cheating in my opinion.2 -
Arandear✭✭✭Been doing my daily Vet pledges everyday the past two weeks and one thing i've noticed is alot of DPS players simply just spamming light attacks with a bow and such. I always make the effort to politely explain they should use skills and a simple rotation, only to be ignored and for them to continuously spam light attacks. THAT, is what frustrates me and it's at this point I tend to vote kick.5 -
yurimodin✭✭✭alecfenstermakerub17_ESO wrote: »Where did I say anything about macro's? that has nothing to do with it, the fact is that its much easier to move with wasd left hand while aiming and using abilities with right hand mouse than it is to try and use abilities, move with the left hand.
I forgot that a controller is a completely viable option. But for mouse and keyboard, I dont see how you can play really well without some kind of gaming mouse.
It just makes it easier, is all I was trying to say. Macros have nothing to do with it and are in fact cheating in my opinion.
.....my apologies, I misunderstood what you were getting at. Your probobly right, one of the main reasons I like controller better is because I always fumble ant hit the wrong button when using KBM
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adeptusminor✭✭✭✭alecfenstermakerub17_ESO wrote: »Something I think a lot of newer players overlook is the use of a gaming mouse like the razer naga, hex or trinity. I cannot imagine trying to pull good dps with weaving and animation canceling and being able to position my character without having this kind of mouse. Unfortunately, investing in a $80 or more mouse is just not in the cards for some people.
Recently had a guild mate struggling to get to 30k. Went out and bought a trinity and immediately improved (a day or two since they can take some getting used to) to just over 30k. If memory is correct, it increased his numbers by around 4k.
not going to condone bad behavior(the M word) but you don't need expensive hardware to accomplish the same thing.....FYI I play with a controller 100% legit because I believe in playing fair. Had a very good guildmate get one shotted HARD in Cyrodiil. He said the kill log showed:
LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>LA>Block>
all within less than 1.5 seconds....
only one way that happens......the M word.
Not that I don't believe your guildmate told you that, but I would want to see the combat log myself before I would believe such nonsense.0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread proceeded entirely as predicted. Nothing quite like being called “elitist” for not wanting to run vet dungeons with fake damage dealers who can’t even pull 10k DPS!12 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭It's genuinely interesting watching the voices of reason in here interact with the people who have dark triad traits. I really, really hope that the psych people ZOS have most likely hired are paying attention. Basically, the trial scene is detrimental to the game, right now. That won't change until the mechanics for trials themselves change. If you design your game to encourage toxicity (see League of Legends), then obviously you're going to have toxicity and you shouldn't act surprised when it happens.
Forced grouping is a top ten means of artificially creating excesses of toxicity for your game. I've spoken about this on other MMO forums. It was interesting to see that some only caught on when it was already too late (Champions Online switching raids for adventure packs, for example). If you make your group content scale to the amount of people who enter, you can have a group of six people from a guild run a trial. And if anyone could actually organise it, you could then have a guild run a trial with a group of 20 scaled to that. Forcing an arbitrary group number for any content is a draconian, archaic, grossly outdated concept that should've died off with World of Warcraft.
No contemporary MMO should have an arbitrarily assigned forced number of people necessary to play any content. That's the design that creates this toxicity and spreads ill will. I'll keep belabouring this point until I'm blue in the face. If you force people to group with toxic sorts, they'll do that, they'll eventually get upset and leave. That's bad PR for your game.
Everyone should note that I'm not advocating taking hardcore content away. Not even remotely. I'm not entitled and I wouldn't want to do that to people. What I am saying is make the content fit the people playing it, rather than the other way around.
League is more than fine. I always tell kids with no skin that they are adopted, and their parents don’t even give a crap about they die. You are just salty that you can’t even handle league XD.0 -
Pink_Violinz✭✭✭✭✭I'm seeing the idea that everyone here are "elitist scum" who aren't willing to help, which usually isn't the case.
I main a healer but I know the basics about almost every dps. I know the sets, a basic rotation, the mundus, etc. If players are visibly struggling and willing to listen, I will take time out of my day to help. The other day in just Fungul Grotto II one of the dps had never done a vet dungeon before. He was willing to listen, and we ended up completing with maybe 1 or 2 wipes. Keep in mind, when we entered he was a khajiit stamblade with a resto backbar. His buddy was explaining everything and trying to convince him the healer had his back.
There was a stamwarden I knew who struggled and struggled. I helped him for days, even took him out to Cyrodiil because he wanted to learn and get better. He got vigor and caltrops, and was hitting about 10k more just from cleaning up his rotation and using Hunding.
Most people here are complaining and venting about those who refuse to better themselves, because we're "dirty elitists" or just "follow the meta". If you aren't dying and are putting out reasonable dps, I have 0 issue. Go for it. I know players who have physical disabilities and struggled with x class, or y rotation. Yet they went on to be one of the first console VCR completes. It's when people refuse to improve that issues like op is talking about arise.5 -
Aebaradath✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Hey, hey. Need a diaper change?LeagueTroll wrote: »It's genuinely interesting watching the voices of reason in here interact with the people who have dark triad traits. I really, really hope that the psych people ZOS have most likely hired are paying attention. Basically, the trial scene is detrimental to the game, right now. That won't change until the mechanics for trials themselves change. If you design your game to encourage toxicity (see League of Legends), then obviously you're going to have toxicity and you shouldn't act surprised when it happens.
Forced grouping is a top ten means of artificially creating excesses of toxicity for your game. I've spoken about this on other MMO forums. It was interesting to see that some only caught on when it was already too late (Champions Online switching raids for adventure packs, for example). If you make your group content scale to the amount of people who enter, you can have a group of six people from a guild run a trial. And if anyone could actually organise it, you could then have a guild run a trial with a group of 20 scaled to that. Forcing an arbitrary group number for any content is a draconian, archaic, grossly outdated concept that should've died off with World of Warcraft.
No contemporary MMO should have an arbitrarily assigned forced number of people necessary to play any content. That's the design that creates this toxicity and spreads ill will. I'll keep belabouring this point until I'm blue in the face. If you force people to group with toxic sorts, they'll do that, they'll eventually get upset and leave. That's bad PR for your game.
Everyone should note that I'm not advocating taking hardcore content away. Not even remotely. I'm not entitled and I wouldn't want to do that to people. What I am saying is make the content fit the people playing it, rather than the other way around.
League is more than fine. I always tell kids with no skin that they are adopted, and their parents don’t even give a crap about they die. You are just salty that you can’t even handle league XD.6 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pink_Violinz wrote: »I'm seeing the idea that everyone here are "elitist scum" who aren't willing to help, which usually isn't the case.
I main a healer but I know the basics about almost every dps. I know the sets, a basic rotation, the mundus, etc. If players are visibly struggling and willing to listen, I will take time out of my day to help. The other day in just Fungul Grotto II one of the dps had never done a vet dungeon before. He was willing to listen, and we ended up completing with maybe 1 or 2 wipes. Keep in mind, when we entered he was a khajiit stamblade with a resto backbar. His buddy was explaining everything and trying to convince him the healer had his back.
There was a stamwarden I knew who struggled and struggled. I helped him for days, even took him out to Cyrodiil because he wanted to learn and get better. He got vigor and caltrops, and was hitting about 10k more just from cleaning up his rotation and using Hunding.
Most people here are complaining and venting about those who refuse to better themselves, because we're "dirty elitists" or just "follow the meta". If you aren't dying and are putting out reasonable dps, I have 0 issue. Go for it. I know players who have physical disabilities and struggled with x class, or y rotation. Yet they went on to be one of the first console VCR completes. It's when people refuse to improve that issues like op is talking about arise.
So how do you better yourselves if you're never allowed to play?
Of course not everybody is an "elitist", but, there are a lot of you out there. Admittedly, there are players that don't hold their own and, of course, no-one should be required to carry them, but, if you're trying to do this stuff and, because you're not the perfectly built, DPS God with the perfect gear and the Meta build to end all Meta builds and you get kicked while simultaneously being humiliated, denigrated and made fun of, that's "elitist".
I don't suppose most of us that aren't at the highest Meta echelons wouldn't mind so much, if so many weren't just plain old jerks about it.
Practice makes perfect, but never being allowed to even practice because you don't fit in to what a Meta considers to be the perfect little box, doesn't help.4 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »
Hey, hey. Need a diaper change?LeagueTroll wrote: »It's genuinely interesting watching the voices of reason in here interact with the people who have dark triad traits. I really, really hope that the psych people ZOS have most likely hired are paying attention. Basically, the trial scene is detrimental to the game, right now. That won't change until the mechanics for trials themselves change. If you design your game to encourage toxicity (see League of Legends), then obviously you're going to have toxicity and you shouldn't act surprised when it happens.
Forced grouping is a top ten means of artificially creating excesses of toxicity for your game. I've spoken about this on other MMO forums. It was interesting to see that some only caught on when it was already too late (Champions Online switching raids for adventure packs, for example). If you make your group content scale to the amount of people who enter, you can have a group of six people from a guild run a trial. And if anyone could actually organise it, you could then have a guild run a trial with a group of 20 scaled to that. Forcing an arbitrary group number for any content is a draconian, archaic, grossly outdated concept that should've died off with World of Warcraft.
No contemporary MMO should have an arbitrarily assigned forced number of people necessary to play any content. That's the design that creates this toxicity and spreads ill will. I'll keep belabouring this point until I'm blue in the face. If you force people to group with toxic sorts, they'll do that, they'll eventually get upset and leave. That's bad PR for your game.
Everyone should note that I'm not advocating taking hardcore content away. Not even remotely. I'm not entitled and I wouldn't want to do that to people. What I am saying is make the content fit the people playing it, rather than the other way around.
League is more than fine. I always tell kids with no skin that they are adopted, and their parents don’t even give a crap about they die. You are just salty that you can’t even handle league XD.
Sure, but how much do you charge?0 -
Aebaradath✭✭✭✭✭
✭
3.14159265 Septims per second.PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »
Hey, hey. Need a diaper change?LeagueTroll wrote: »It's genuinely interesting watching the voices of reason in here interact with the people who have dark triad traits. I really, really hope that the psych people ZOS have most likely hired are paying attention. Basically, the trial scene is detrimental to the game, right now. That won't change until the mechanics for trials themselves change. If you design your game to encourage toxicity (see League of Legends), then obviously you're going to have toxicity and you shouldn't act surprised when it happens.
Forced grouping is a top ten means of artificially creating excesses of toxicity for your game. I've spoken about this on other MMO forums. It was interesting to see that some only caught on when it was already too late (Champions Online switching raids for adventure packs, for example). If you make your group content scale to the amount of people who enter, you can have a group of six people from a guild run a trial. And if anyone could actually organise it, you could then have a guild run a trial with a group of 20 scaled to that. Forcing an arbitrary group number for any content is a draconian, archaic, grossly outdated concept that should've died off with World of Warcraft.
No contemporary MMO should have an arbitrarily assigned forced number of people necessary to play any content. That's the design that creates this toxicity and spreads ill will. I'll keep belabouring this point until I'm blue in the face. If you force people to group with toxic sorts, they'll do that, they'll eventually get upset and leave. That's bad PR for your game.
Everyone should note that I'm not advocating taking hardcore content away. Not even remotely. I'm not entitled and I wouldn't want to do that to people. What I am saying is make the content fit the people playing it, rather than the other way around.
League is more than fine. I always tell kids with no skin that they are adopted, and their parents don’t even give a crap about they die. You are just salty that you can’t even handle league XD.
Sure, but how much do you charge?0 -
alanmatillab16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Sorry, thought for a minute that I was back on the WoW forums with all the pretentious damage meter ***.
Heres how you avoid all the "casual scrubs": Don't use random dungeon finders and find friends to group with. Good luck with that with your attitude.Edited by alanmatillab16_ESO on July 6, 2018 7:57PM4 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most of the other dungeons you can limp through but the DLC are no joke. Every dungeon has mechanics that must be followed2 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Exactly! If you don't want to deal with us losers then team with people you know and love. You can live in your own little bubble and accomplish everything in just the way that will make you happy! Let losers like me fail miserably at the PuGs until I learn the best way to do things.alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »Sorry, thought for a minute that I was back on the WoW forums with all the pretentious damage meter ***.
Heres how you avoid all the "casual scrubs": Don't use random dungeon finders and find friends to group with. Good luck with that with your attitude.
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AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So it's the low CPs fault they get kicked?
That's pure BS.
If you can't carry one wee CP through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa7 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭Pink_Violinz wrote: »I'm seeing the idea that everyone here are "elitist scum" who aren't willing to help, which usually isn't the case.
I main a healer but I know the basics about almost every dps. I know the sets, a basic rotation, the mundus, etc. If players are visibly struggling and willing to listen, I will take time out of my day to help. The other day in just Fungul Grotto II one of the dps had never done a vet dungeon before. He was willing to listen, and we ended up completing with maybe 1 or 2 wipes. Keep in mind, when we entered he was a khajiit stamblade with a resto backbar. His buddy was explaining everything and trying to convince him the healer had his back.
There was a stamwarden I knew who struggled and struggled. I helped him for days, even took him out to Cyrodiil because he wanted to learn and get better. He got vigor and caltrops, and was hitting about 10k more just from cleaning up his rotation and using Hunding.
Most people here are complaining and venting about those who refuse to better themselves, because we're "dirty elitists" or just "follow the meta". If you aren't dying and are putting out reasonable dps, I have 0 issue. Go for it. I know players who have physical disabilities and struggled with x class, or y rotation. Yet they went on to be one of the first console VCR completes. It's when people refuse to improve that issues like op is talking about arise.
So how do you better yourselves if you're never allowed to play?
Of course not everybody is an "elitist", but, there are a lot of you out there. Admittedly, there are players that don't hold their own and, of course, no-one should be required to carry them, but, if you're trying to do this stuff and, because you're not the perfectly built, DPS God with the perfect gear and the Meta build to end all Meta builds and you get kicked while simultaneously being humiliated, denigrated and made fun of, that's "elitist".
I don't suppose most of us that aren't at the highest Meta echelons wouldn't mind so much, if so many weren't just plain old jerks about it.
Practice makes perfect, but never being allowed to even practice because you don't fit in to what a Meta considers to be the perfect little box, doesn't help.
No you rarely get kicked if you are average, it’s about time expectations. Median dps for ppl queing vet is somewhere in 20-25k. Every kick 3-5 min is spent for que and port, this can be even longer for kicking tank. The expected value of the dps from next guy in que is the average. If the the current guy is already average. Kicking him will result in a longer time to complete on expectation. Only ppl who are lower than 70th - 80th percentile get kicked often. It’s simple math.2 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭Holy crap this thread is appalling. The amount of folks screaming "elitists" to people who want nor have the time to spend 3 hours in a dungeon wiping over and over because dps can only pull 10k a piece is scary.
Seriously, it's great that you want to go into vet dungeons in your mixed garb of green/blue gear with no rotation, food, or pots but you are the problem here. Not the so called elitists. A little preparation is required for that stuff and if you can't do it then you don't belong there since all you're doing is wasting time. Join a guild who will carry you through and teach you the basics, there are many (I run one that does just that, shameless plug)!
Btw, before I get attacked, I'm the tank who actually sticks around with bad groups in dungeon finder because it doesn't bug me, find it fun most of the time. Did you know you can wipe on Bloodspawn if your dps are bad? Learned that the hard way not very long ago, stuck around for that till group disbanded. I still get groups who can't get past the second boss of coa2 cuz dps is bad. When I use the dungeon finder I know what I'm getting myself into but to expect people to carry you or have hours to blow while doing a PUG vet dungeon is mind boggling.
So where else is someone going to learn to participate in a meaningful way in PuG dungeons other than IN PUG DUNGEONS!?
Honestly, so you definition of "Public" means "Only those players that I deem acceptable"? That is the definition of "elitist".
If you are so opposed to anyone except "perfect" players doing this sort of thing then only group with the "perfect" players.
Form your own Guild! Only play with each other! Then you'll all be happy. Until, of course, you start eating your own because you crave the ability to denigrate, humiliate and destroy the enjoyment of others who just want to play the game.
Did....did you even read my post or register what you read?They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd3 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Veteran Dungeons need to be locked until bare minimum CP160 and the newer DLC Dungeons should be higher than that. There is zero reason why as a new player you need to be able to access the hardest content right out of the gate.
The normal dungeons and all the countless things to do in overland PvE zones are where you should be as a new player and where you should stay until you've spent the time leveling up and equipping your character with some sort of cohesive gear sets.
The only thing you get from Veteran Dungeons is a Monster Helm, something that's not necessary at all for a new player.4 -
adeptusminor✭✭✭✭So it's the low CPs fault they get kicked?
That's pure BS.
If you can't carry one wee CP through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are.
Why should people be expected to expend more resources and time to carry someone not willing to fulfill their roles as a dps? Let's flip this around to other classes where you have a fake healer or fake tank, and the fake healer telling the other players in the group:
"If you can't heal yourself through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are" or the fake tank tells the 3 other people while the boss is chasing them around "If you can't tank a boss through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are"
Fake healers and fake tanks seldom get a pass, why is it so many people give bad or fake DPS a pass? What if it's two new dps players, one a new player to vet dungeons and willing and wanting to improve, the other playing "their way" putting out 10k dps with both doing not enough damage for a vet dungeon. Do you think either is going to have a good experience if they have to spend 20 minutes to kill a boss? To me it's extremely toxic and selfish for a person to not care about their damage and role and expect to be carried because they can't be bothered to improve. The only ones those kind of people hurt are the new players, not the experienced DPS that is min-maxed and can blast through the vet dungeons in 15 minutes.
Edited by adeptusminor on July 6, 2018 8:38PM4 -
alanmatillab16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭adeptusminor wrote: »So it's the low CPs fault they get kicked?
That's pure BS.
If you can't carry one wee CP through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are.
Why should people be expected to expend more resources and time to carry someone not willing to fulfill their roles as a dps? Let's flip this around to other classes:
"If you can't heal yourself through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are"
"If you can't tank a boss through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are"
Fake healers and fake tanks seldom get a pass, why is it so many people give bad or fake DPS a pass? What if it's two new dps players, one a new player to vet dungeons and willing and wanting to improve, the other playing "their way" putting out 10k dps with both doing not enough damage for a vet dungeon. Do you think either is going to have a good experience if they have to spend 20 minutes to kill a boss? To me it's extremely toxic and selfish for a person to not care about their damage and role and expect to be carried because they can't be bothered to improve. The only ones those kind of people hurt are the new players, not the experienced DPS that is min-maxed and can blast through the vet dungeons in 15 minutes.
You go on about experienced DPS that is min-maxed and can blast through a vet dungeon in 15 minutes but also go on about all dps have to do their part...which is it? if one min-maxed dps can clear the dungeon do the others need to be min-maxed then.
Again, if you want to cherry-pick your dungeon companions then go with guildies / friends and NOT pugs.
Players banging on about scrubs not doing dps and not wanting to carry forget that todays scrub is tomorrows hardcore raider. If players put newbies off with their elitist attitude then they will eventually run of out of experienced players to run instances with. Natural attrition means experienced players slowly leave games. If you put off the next "generation" with your attitude what do you think is going to happen eventually? The elitist will be on the forums complaining that no one is running instances.
It may be a cliche but if you are one of those players that thinks that anyone who isn't equipped with "BiS" in every slot with the optimum rotation from some theory crafting website, the optimum build etc is trash then please do ESO a favour and duck off back to WoW. You will be welcome there for sure.5 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »adeptusminor wrote: »So it's the low CPs fault they get kicked?
That's pure BS.
If you can't carry one wee CP through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are.
Why should people be expected to expend more resources and time to carry someone not willing to fulfill their roles as a dps? Let's flip this around to other classes:
"If you can't heal yourself through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are"
"If you can't tank a boss through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are"
Fake healers and fake tanks seldom get a pass, why is it so many people give bad or fake DPS a pass? What if it's two new dps players, one a new player to vet dungeons and willing and wanting to improve, the other playing "their way" putting out 10k dps with both doing not enough damage for a vet dungeon. Do you think either is going to have a good experience if they have to spend 20 minutes to kill a boss? To me it's extremely toxic and selfish for a person to not care about their damage and role and expect to be carried because they can't be bothered to improve. The only ones those kind of people hurt are the new players, not the experienced DPS that is min-maxed and can blast through the vet dungeons in 15 minutes.
You go on about experienced DPS that is min-maxed and can blast through a vet dungeon in 15 minutes but also go on about all dps have to do their part...which is it? if one min-maxed dps can clear the dungeon do the others need to be min-maxed then.
Again, if you want to cherry-pick your dungeon companions then go with guildies / friends and NOT pugs.
Players banging on about scrubs not doing dps and not wanting to carry forget that todays scrub is tomorrows hardcore raider. If players put newbies off with their elitist attitude then they will eventually run of out of experienced players to run instances with. Natural attrition means experienced players slowly leave games. If you put off the next "generation" with your attitude what do you think is going to happen eventually? The elitist will be on the forums complaining that no one is running instances.
It may be a cliche but if you are one of those players that thinks that anyone who isn't equipped with "BiS" in every slot with the optimum rotation from some theory crafting website, the optimum build etc is trash then please do ESO a favour and duck off back to WoW. You will be welcome there for sure.
Newbies who actually listen and want to learn rarely get kicked.
I know that because I remember my newbie times. I was bashed by "friendly casual players" because I couldnt outheal oneshot mechanics that happen because of low dps (once it happened because the whole room collapsed during Bloodspawn fight), but "elitism scums" taught me how to play and were mostly super friendly and forgiving.
Anecdotal evidence, yes, but endgame community in this game is actually quite small and you see familiar names everywhere. So I'm pretty sure this is a norm.Edited by LadyNalcarya on July 6, 2018 8:58PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU7
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