Olen_Mikko wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Yea, with zaan and bis gear. How can you think casual without basic understanding of veteran stuff etc, could achieve them?

You know, that just shows how far away from realism you elitists have wandered.

What is easy to you, might be too hard and therefore not interesting enough to complete for some.

Here is just light attacks + AOE DoTs with crafted + overland gear (sure there is a monster set, but it's only 1.2k DPS). No spammable. No buffs, not even ele drain (only a brief major sorcery from the netch I cast for sustain).

That's 22k from just spamming light attack and casting AOE DoTs when the old ones expire.

Mix a spammable in there and keep up your buffs, and you're easily looking at 25k+ DPS. Anyone who can't hit these numbers has absolutely no business doing vet content.

Just while ago, i did veteran CoH 1, with my guildies. I had more cp than them combine, lowest being cp33. I was with my magblade dd/heal setup and had to carry us a lot.

And you know what? I told what to do, explained machanics and we succeeded it with only one wipe.

Sure, i lost 15 minutes of my precious time, while making 3 other players feel accepted and respected, with good stuff.

No need to be elitist ***

Go do it with same group in vet CoA 2 bc I am pretty sure a lot of people can build a supertank spank to solo vet 1. I do not take the op's post as elitism I also think that term gets tossed around without people knowing what it means. The op needed to rant and maybe validate with his rant explaining why he gave up on rando dps bs. His opinion is subjective, there is no right or wrong and he is entitled to manage his time and activity finder how he sees fit.

I don't think the state of poor DPS players in dungeons is related to their choice to run off-meta builds. I think it's much more likely they don't understand how to use their abilities to produce sufficient damage output and utilize the gear sets they have on. Imagine running around in overland content and feeling strong when you kill that Troll with 120k health. The way you killed that Troll is not gonna work in a vet dungeon where monsters sometimes have 4-5 million health. It will take forever and you may be killed from extended exposure to mechanics. The root cause is the stark difference between overland, normal dungeons, and veteran dungeons. I doubt there's a remedy to this. Being high CP usually means you've been around for some time and it is more likely (but not certain) that you have learned how to produce damage. I know a guy who can pull over 30K DPS while only having 2 white daggers, a white bow, and nothing else on, so choice of sets isn't really the big issue.

dtsharples wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

I actually went and swapped Shadow Dancer for Julianos because I wasn't getting the full bonus for my sets (x2 for staves since Summerset) and it's virtually impossible to find Shadow Dancer Staves. Not sure why...

In any case: started using Eledrain, potions. Simple ones for now until I get used to it, I don't want to waste the expensive kind on training dummies. Will try swapping the recovery glyphs as well once I am more used to the rotation; right now I'm still running out of magicka if I'm not careful.

But the one good thing about all this is that I've added about 1K to my damage; that is progress, right?!

\o/
This right here is the action needed if people want to improve.
I take my hat off to you Ghanima, showing the initiative to ask for a bit of help -and then actually trying it out - is why you will very soon be beating down the doors of vMoL
While the 'potatoes' who do not wish to learn, or improve, or take advice - and just scream ELITISM To solve all the problems, Will still be slowing down Banished Cells runs this time next year.

Hahahaha thanks! I wouldn't go quite that far (I've never even done the vet dungeons, except 2 that I was able to duo with my boyfriend - grouping with strangers feels very intimidating), but I am glad I was able to improve, even a little bit. And I wanted to thank everyone in this thread who contributed advice.

I've said it before and I will say it again: there are 3 primary factors that contribute to the gigantic dps disparity in this game:

-Animation cancelling: this is not a dps gain in most other MMOs. You can't even cancel animations in older MMOs, because there is a global cooldown and you can't activate abilities while that cooldown is happening. Having to do this to optimize dps is counter-intuitive for 99% of the playerbase, and difficult / impossible for the vast majority. Please do not inject your own experiences here, the majority of the playerbase cannot reliably animation cancel in a way that increases their dps

-Short duration DoTs: having 8s and 12s DoTs makes rotations brutal, and keeping uptime without overcasting an ability is extremely difficult for most players. Personally, I can't reliably do it anywhere outside of a target dummy, and no amount of practice is going to change that. Most other MMOs (at least those that I've played) have DoTs that all last 15, 30, or even 45 seconds, making them much, much easier to manage.

-The UI itself: bar swapping is not a normal mechanic in MMOs. It adds to the difficulty / complexity for a beginner, and isn't really something you can easily get used to. I'm just starting to get the hang of it, and I've been playing for almost 2 years. Furthermore, this game has no macro support, and no ability to manually click abilities. Say what you will, but I did VERY well in my previous MMOs as a clicker. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Now, you can say that all of these are creative decisions and that they in no way make ESO a "bad" MMO. I'm not trying to argue that point, just that this MMO is VERY different from others and high level content / doing high dps is VERY punishing to casuals / beginners / people who don't have time to "git gud" for a number of reasons I've outlined here.

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I've said it before and I will say it again: there are 3 primary factors that contribute to the gigantic dps disparity in this game:

-Animation cancelling: this is not a dps gain in most other MMOs. You can't even cancel animations in older MMOs, because there is a global cooldown and you can't activate abilities while that cooldown is happening. Having to do this to optimize dps is counter-intuitive for 99% of the playerbase, and difficult / impossible for the vast majority. Please do not inject your own experiences here, the majority of the playerbase cannot reliably animation cancel in a way that increases their dps

-Short duration DoTs: having 8s and 12s DoTs makes rotations brutal, and keeping uptime without overcasting an ability is extremely difficult for most players. Personally, I can't reliably do it anywhere outside of a target dummy, and no amount of practice is going to change that. Most other MMOs (at least those that I've played) have DoTs that all last 15, 30, or even 45 seconds, making them much, much easier to manage.

-The UI itself: bar swapping is not a normal mechanic in MMOs. It adds to the difficulty / complexity for a beginner, and isn't really something you can easily get used to. I'm just starting to get the hang of it, and I've been playing for almost 2 years. Furthermore, this game has no macro support, and no ability to manually click abilities. Say what you will, but I did VERY well in my previous MMOs as a clicker. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Now, you can say that all of these are creative decisions and that they in no way make ESO a "bad" MMO. I'm not trying to argue that point, just that this MMO is VERY different from others and high level content / doing high dps is VERY punishing to casuals / beginners / people who don't have time to "git gud" for a number of reasons I've outlined here.

You are 100% right about this. I see my own issues reflected in your post, because these are indeed the three things that I struggle with:

- I animation cancel only some of the time
- I either overcast DOTs or don't cast them often enough
- Swapping bars makes me lose time and sometimes messes up my rhythm

Most of the time I am very busy in RL, which means I have maybe 2 hours to play most days. I simply cannot spend them in front of a training dummy, and my skills have lagged behind a lot even though I've probably been playing the game longer than most people in this thread (since beta). I am on vacation now, so I have more time to play/practice, but usually that isn't an option.

This is also not me crying "elitist" or "the game is bad", just stating a few facts.

ItsNebula wrote: »

Idk how DPS are still trash in this day and age of ESO. If you cant pull at least 30k DPS in this patch, just dont DPS. 30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready. Hell, ive never played MagBlade before yesterday, threw together the BIS and was able to parse a 35k with about 10mins of rotation practice. DPS is super easy, and if you cant pull at LEAST 30k DPS, you have no room to tell others how to do there job. Especially if youre a casual still stuck in the light/heavy attack phase from Skyrim, lmfao

Edit; fixed grammar

Lolwat?

You don’t just walk into 30k dps buddy. It actually requires practice you posting a parse if you doing it doesn’t matters because you’ve had more practice than others. Something as “simple” as weaving in light attacks even come with practice. What a silly post to just show how better you are than others.

Since i changed to pc i noticed an awful amout of very bad max cp damage dealer. I feel that OPs pain tho.

Shantu wrote: »

Don't you guys get tired of listening to yourself whine on and on and on about what you find in PUG's? Get a friggin' clue. Most players aren't meta-minded and don't have any idea how to reach 20k dps. And just because they don't doesn't make them somehow wrong or inferior. They are just trying to enjoy the game like everyone else. You bring your elitist, condescending BS and start piling it on people who don't measure up to your standards. I don't know how many times it has to be said, if this is your attitude, DON'T USE PUG's!! But no! I think it's more fun for you guys to look for reasons to unload your crappy attitudes.

It's fine if people don't know how to do 20k DPS. It's also just fine to expect people to be able to do the minimum for the dungeon they're in and remove them if they can't. Everyone is trying to enjoy the game, and if a dungeon is not able to be completed because someone is performing poorly then that person is taking away the enjoyment from the rest of the group. It is not the job of the other group members to teach or carry people who cannot hold their weight.

And remember this is vet dungeons we're talking about. Anyone can experience all the dungeons through the normal versions as you can take anything through those and face roll most of them. But in vet there are minimum requirements that need to be met to complete them. So if people aren't meeting those and the dungeon isn't getting completed it's not unreasonable to remove those who came in unprepared.

I was one of those people who queued up for vet dungeon with no idea of the kind of jump there was between them and normal. I think this is actually part of the problem. We have two levels of dungeons. Face roll easy and hard. So those who haven't done vets yet and haven't really looked into it won't understand what is needed. But, I found out very quickly. After a couple times of getting kicked after "dps is too low" I took a step back, re-evaluated my ***, looked up a proper build and got myself some purple overworld/crafted gear. It wasn't perfect but it was good enough and I haven't been kicked since.

AuldWolf wrote: »

It's genuinely interesting watching the voices of reason in here interact with the people who have dark triad traits.

Now this is getting ridiculous, really.
If someone wants people in group to play their roles, they must be Satan himself.
Do you really think that dehumanizing people, calling them names, putting lables on them and telling that they're psychopats is normal and even righteous? The witch hunt is real.
You cannot support "friendly pugging" and dehumanize a group of people at the same time ("oh, what do they know, they're just psychos!". It doesnt work like this. Any respect should be mutual first and foremost.

Now, I agree that the game has design issues and the gap between most "casual" and most "hardcore" people is too big, but blaming people is not a solution. It is the worst thing we can do for this already fractured community.

DanteYoda wrote: »

Be more patient, Stop being aholes..

Why? What benefit does that serve other than the carry?

As if someone is a "psycho" for kicking some scrub who can't execute simple mechanics after being shown and explained repeatedly, with detailed video guides being available for years on youtube. I once had a group wipe over 20 times in a row at Bandu in vFG2 because they could't focus one add while someone was chained down, although I explained each and every time. Such people deserve to be kicked because they are simply too dumb to play this game. If someone scored 20 own goals while playing football wouldn't you kick him from your team?

As for "forced grouping" there's none. Almost all normal dungeons can be done solo. Some players have even run solo the vet DLC ones and even some normal trial bosses. And the place where the most important weapons for both stamina (bow) and magicka (destro) come from is a solo arena and nobody can carry you in there, unless you account share which is against TOS and bannable.

Nobody asks random dungeon players to run "meta". Only common sense, average intelligence and a bit of good will is needed.

AuldWolf wrote: »

It makes my head spin.

I've never known any other game where sociopaths come forward and freely admit their toxicity and elitism to everyone. What do you think that publicly embodying the dark triad gets you? This 'YOU' nonsense, especially.

This is what's killing the trial scene, and it's what will put the final nail in the coffin. This is why people don't play trials, because they're forced to group with people like the OP. ZeniMax needs to take the forced grouping element away by having trials scale tot he number of people entering, with the minimum number being 1 or 2 people. This way, people can get together to have a fun dungeon run in any number, but they aren't forced to group with a person like the OP.

Removing forced grouping from trials is the only way to cut away this toxicity from the game. The trial scene is only going to continue to implode, and threads like this will continue to be posted right up until the trial scene completely dies off and only sociopathic people are running it. I suspect we're pretty close to that point already.

ZOS is doing themselves no favours by catering to this crowd. It looks bad for the game.

How did this person get a bunch of agrees lmao? I mean, I could have sworn this was a thread about bad dps in group finder.... Not trials.

I'm only cp366 at the moment, but I started running dungeons about two months ago maybe, in the low to mid 200's. I was using the gear I thought was good for me, I had no idea what it it meant to be the damage dealer in the group, just that if I could find a group to run a vet dungeon and we all can stay alive, we'd be golden.

i was very, very, very, very wrong. I joined a vet dungeon for the first time without my friends, this time with a PUG. I thought, okay, I've cleared this on normal, this shouldn't be too bad. Well, I had never tested my DPS on a dummy before. I was kicked from this group (there were no hard feelings, I understood why after this run)

So....I looked up a good build (pet sorc) as what I was running wasn't doing jack ****. I found someone to craft me 5 pieces of julianos, then I went out and grinded for 5 pieces of Necropotence. I followed the build that I found to the best I could with what gear I have (don't yet have vMA staves)

Anyway, I spent the next couple months, working on my rotations just like the build advised, ended up getting the Valkyn Skoria set, which raised my DPS a good bit. Then moved onto the iLambris set, which raised my dps even more.

I am not yet making 30k DPS, but I can hold my own in vet dungeons with other player who are anywhere from cp500-750. Since I have properly allocated champion points, skills and have mostly purple gear sets, some being gold and a proper monster set, i have not been kicked from a dungeon since.

It took me a good chunk of time, practice and gold to get my character where he stands now, but rather than being kicked from a vet dungeons, it ends up with everyone being happy and telling each other good game and sometimes running the same dungeon 3-4 more times with the same group.

At first, I was running what I thought was cool and effective and boy was I wrong. But now that i have what I think is decent gear (5/5 Julianos, 5/5 Necro, 2/2 ilambris front and back) I can see the difference it makes.

Holy crap this thread is appalling. The amount of folks screaming "elitists" to people who want nor have the time to spend 3 hours in a dungeon wiping over and over because dps can only pull 10k a piece is scary.

Seriously, it's great that you want to go into vet dungeons in your mixed garb of green/blue gear with no rotation, food, or pots but you are the problem here. Not the so called elitists. A little preparation is required for that stuff and if you can't do it then you don't belong there since all you're doing is wasting time. Join a guild who will carry you through and teach you the basics, there are many (I run one that does just that, shameless plug)!

Btw, before I get attacked, I'm the tank who actually sticks around with bad groups in dungeon finder because it doesn't bug me, find it fun most of the time. Did you know you can wipe on Bloodspawn if your dps are bad? Learned that the hard way not very long ago, stuck around for that till group disbanded. I still get groups who can't get past the second boss of coa2 cuz dps is bad. When I use the dungeon finder I know what I'm getting myself into but to expect people to carry you or have hours to blow while doing a PUG vet dungeon is mind boggling.