This is why YOU get kicked for being low CP or bad at DPS/Heals/Tank

Asardes · July 2018

On magicka builds other than maybe NB you have more than enough time to squeeze 1-2 heavy attacks in the rotation without any noticeable DPS loss. I always go full spell damage on jewelry in both PvP and PvE on all my magicka DD characters; in PvP I use Whichmother's Potent Brew but PvE is always blue maximum magicka & health food ex. Solitude Salmon Millet Soup. I don't play pet sorc because I hate pets with a passion because they tend to mess up the mechanics in certain content but I can pull a rotation from the top of my head that has infinite sustain.

Bar setup (double lightning):
Front: Daedric Prey | Hardened Ward | Volatile Familiar | Inner Light | Bound Aegis || Thunderous Rage
Back: Blockade of Storms | Liquid Lightning | Volatile Familiar | Power Surge | Bound Aegis || Greater Storm Atronach

Rotation: buff with Power Surge
LA->Liquid Lightning->LA->Blockade of Storms->swap->HA->Daedric Prey->HA->Volatile Familiar->swap, recast Power Surge every 3rd or 4th rotation.

If doing dummy test you can swap Hardened Ward for Elemental Drain and recast every 2nd rotation; optionally replace Thunderous Rage with Shooting Star/Ice Commet since you get the AoE staff passive from the former anyway.

Don't bother doing an all LA rotation or using Spell Power potions if you do under ~80% of the DPS you see the streamer doing. Full LA rotation is only possible with full group support (worm, drains, orb).

Agenericname · July 2018

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

You know the problem with posting this on the forum?

These low DPS players more than likely don't read the forums unless there's an update/patch link on Facebook.

Solution:

If you notice someone with a bad build/dps, ask a friend who knows the class to help that specific build and connect the two. Be the solution in game, not on the forums.

Have you actually tried, they all just call you meta slave, they state it on forum too. They are very proud to be potato. If ppl carry them, they will think they actually did their part.

Have you tried it without the ad hominem? I'm not trying to be overly critical, but not everyone takes advice well with the insults. The focus at that point becomes the negative instead of anything positive that might have been there.

AdicusDio wrote: »

"Spamming light attacks" saves stamina if stamina-based and is better than standing there doing nothing waiting for a pot cool down to reset or enough stam to regen.

FWIRW, depending on your CP allotment, crit chance, and sets you are running, it's possible to get 15k+ per light attack w/bow (i.e. 15k damage PER HIT) for example which can actually be higher than some stam abilities. Also, some abilities REQUIRE X AMOUNT OF LIGHT ATTACKS to get their intended benefit.

So before uninformed posts like this spread more ignorance and creates random dungeon aggression that almost always comes from a mid 250-450-CP tank or healer that seemingly "knows" more about dps than their own builds, L2L 1st. If it's really that bad, join a dungeon running guild that runs discord w/exp players that run them daily.

Also, some dungeons are harder than others. PERIOD. Whether that's increased health of enemy, tweaked mobs, etc. it can be a serious chore for dps to constantly kill all adds then burn boss for a couple seconds then back to adds again. All the stupid nerfs to the game (mundus, sets, weapons, etc. etc.) make it even harder than it used to be for some areas. They need to raise the cp cap on certain vet areas as a level 10cp has no business in CoAII for example.

What does "L2L" stand for?

Sparr0w · July 2018

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Tbh sets aren't that bad. Swap 2x recovery glyphs for 2x weapon dmg glyphs. Run inner light on front bar so you can get the cheaper potions (since you're getting crit from inner light) and get used to drinking them on cooldown, they will increase spell dmg 20% and magicka recovery 20%. Also as said run ele drain, 10%~ damage & 600 effective regen (300/s)

I actually went and swapped Shadow Dancer for Julianos because I wasn't getting the full bonus for my sets (x2 for staves since Summerset) and it's virtually impossible to find Shadow Dancer Staves. Not sure why...

In any case: started using Eledrain, potions. Simple ones for now until I get used to it, I don't want to waste the expensive kind on training dummies. Will try swapping the recovery glyphs as well once I am more used to the rotation; right now I'm still running out of magicka if I'm not careful.

But the one good thing about all this is that I've added about 1K to my damage; that is progress, right?!

Nice

Yes progress is slow to start with, after a while it will suddenly 'click' and you'll know where you're going wrong. Honestly it took me so long to get from 10k-15k but from there I shot to 25k before I knew it.

Also I've heard of an addon 'constellations' which advises where your CP should be spent based on your skills, worth having a go

Same with 'action duration reminder' I think it's called, basically a countdown of when skills are expiring, sure someone on PC would be able to inform you of a couple others.

Olen_Mikko · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Yea, with zaan and bis gear. How can you think casual without basic understanding of veteran stuff etc, could achieve them?

You know, that just shows how far away from realism you elitists have wandered.

What is easy to you, might be too hard and therefore not interesting enough to complete for some.

Here is just light attacks + AOE DoTs with crafted + overland gear (sure there is a monster set, but it's only 1.2k DPS). No spammable. No buffs, not even ele drain (only a brief major sorcery from the netch I cast for sustain).

That's 22k from just spamming light attack and casting AOE DoTs when the old ones expire.

Mix a spammable in there and keep up your buffs, and you're easily looking at 25k+ DPS. Anyone who can't hit these numbers has absolutely no business doing vet content.

Just while ago, i did veteran CoH 1, with my guildies. I had more cp than them combine, lowest being cp33. I was with my magblade dd/heal setup and had to carry us a lot.

And you know what? I told what to do, explained machanics and we succeeded it with only one wipe.

Sure, i lost 15 minutes of my precious time, while making 3 other players feel accepted and respected, with good stuff.

No need to be elitist ***

What_In_Tarnation · July 2018

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

No Major Intellect, so not sure there was any pots used? I'd be genuinely interested to see the difference using pots (essence of spellpower or even the trash magicka ones to help with sustain), ensuring major sorcery is up all the time, and slotting elemental drain (either self or having someone apply it). Then after that, we could talk about _which_ sets are being used, and if the front-bar weapon is gold-tier (weapons are noticable, armor doesn't matter if it's purple except for maybe trial score-pushing).

I didn't use pots, because I find that I forget about them in the thick of a fight. But that's something I could experiment with more.

As for the sets...I'm probably going to catch some flak for this, because they' are a little...unconventional I suppose?

x5 Destruction Mastery
x3 Willpower
x3 Shadow Dancer

The idea behind this was to stack as much magicka as possible because I always have such sustain issues. I have multiple characters you see, and I've tried different approaches: max-damage, max-magicka, a combination...with what I had available, of course (that is: no monster sets etc.) This one however I find easiest to play, although I realise it's not exactly meta.

I could borrow another character's set (which is all gold) and try with that.

EDIT

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by hate in this sentence, could you clarify what you mean? And what sets are you wearing and what enchantments do you have on your jewelry? I mean you say you have soloed some norm dungeons and that is neat. You have fun playing? That is what is important.

I meant that I found pet builds extremely dull to play and I do want to enjoy it a little too. I do have fun playing, of course, but I also feel I am somehow missing out on a part of the game by not being able to participate in tougher content together with an actual group, see the newest dungeons and maybe a trial some day.

The enchantments on the jewellery are magicka recovery, because, again, sustain. I could squeeze more damage by optimising my gear for it but what happens when I run out after a couple of rotations? I was trying to strike some sort of balance.

Not sure will you get the reply from me here, but I can give you some alterative sets for better dps output.

Since you want to stacked as much magicka as you can, then stay with Destruction Mastery, swap Shadow dancer into Elegant set (overland set and the bonus of 2nd, 3rd, 4th are the same. 5th bonus can help you better with dps performance right here if you weaving light and heavy attack.).

Or you can even try spinner set. but it might get you a little bit over-penetration.

Then swap willpower, try veteran dungeons like Crypt of heart 1 or Vault of madness (Both dungeons are really easy, no dps check at all). These 2 dungeons will drop monster head that give you max magicka bonus(And you can get shoulder from undaunted chest) Like 1 grothdarr + 1 ilambris = 2 pieces of max magicka bonus.

Just a little thought that might help you a bit.

KraziJoe · July 2018

Don't blame them, the difference between normal and Vet is crazy. Sure you cleared Normal in 5 minutes but step into vet and it's basically undoable unless you know how to play.
So some times you have to stay a little longer and pull these people through but in the long run you are doing the whole community a service by helping these players get better. And if they don't, so be it.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Yea, with zaan and bis gear. How can you think casual without basic understanding of veteran stuff etc, could achieve them?

You know, that just shows how far away from realism you elitists have wandered.

What is easy to you, might be too hard and therefore not interesting enough to complete for some.

Here is just light attacks + AOE DoTs with crafted + overland gear (sure there is a monster set, but it's only 1.2k DPS). No spammable. No buffs, not even ele drain (only a brief major sorcery from the netch I cast for sustain).

That's 22k from just spamming light attack and casting AOE DoTs when the old ones expire.

Mix a spammable in there and keep up your buffs, and you're easily looking at 25k+ DPS. Anyone who can't hit these numbers has absolutely no business doing vet content.

Just while ago, i did veteran CoH 1, with my guildies. I had more cp than them combine, lowest being cp33. I was with my magblade dd/heal setup and had to carry us a lot.

And you know what? I told what to do, explained machanics and we succeeded it with only one wipe.

Sure, i lost 15 minutes of my precious time, while making 3 other players feel accepted and respected, with good stuff.

No need to be elitist ***

Feel respected for being carried?

FakeFox · July 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Idk how DPS are still trash in this day and age of ESO. If you cant pull at least 30k DPS in this patch, just dont DPS. 30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready. Hell, ive never played MagBlade before yesterday, threw together the BIS and was able to parse a 35k with about 10mins of rotation practice. DPS is super easy, and if you cant pull at LEAST 30k DPS, you have no room to tell others how to do there job. Especially if youre a casual still stuck in the light/heavy attack phase from Skyrim, lmfao

Edit; fixed grammar

Don't overdo it, please. 30k DPS is throwing down blockade and spamming light attack with the rest of your bar being there for passives and good looks. And who even needs a backbar? Golding out a second weapon cost too much anyway.

Mureel · July 2018

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Never do dungeons with strangers. Only let a pug in if just to fill out the queue then vote and kick the extra immediately. Life will be simpler.

Are you serious?

Yep there are people who do this, rather than just being people and PORTING into the dungeon.

If you're that awesome- wtf you need the finder bonus?

If it's a random faily- then just carry the 4th if you're good enough to do it with 3.

Better to make someone's day brighter for 15- 20 min than take away something from them in a way that doesn't harm you at all.

Also, it's a game. Not your life.

Maybe take 5 min to remember that, out of your precious day.

Think about how long your Mom spent teaching you to use a fork.

If everyone was like the quoted player y'all would be eating with your hands.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Agenericname wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

You know the problem with posting this on the forum?

These low DPS players more than likely don't read the forums unless there's an update/patch link on Facebook.

Solution:

If you notice someone with a bad build/dps, ask a friend who knows the class to help that specific build and connect the two. Be the solution in game, not on the forums.

Have you actually tried, they all just call you meta slave, they state it on forum too. They are very proud to be potato. If ppl carry them, they will think they actually did their part.

Have you tried it without the ad hominem? I'm not trying to be overly critical, but not everyone takes advice well with the insults. The focus at that point becomes the negative instead of anything positive that might have been there.

AdicusDio wrote: »

"Spamming light attacks" saves stamina if stamina-based and is better than standing there doing nothing waiting for a pot cool down to reset or enough stam to regen.

FWIRW, depending on your CP allotment, crit chance, and sets you are running, it's possible to get 15k+ per light attack w/bow (i.e. 15k damage PER HIT) for example which can actually be higher than some stam abilities. Also, some abilities REQUIRE X AMOUNT OF LIGHT ATTACKS to get their intended benefit.

So before uninformed posts like this spread more ignorance and creates random dungeon aggression that almost always comes from a mid 250-450-CP tank or healer that seemingly "knows" more about dps than their own builds, L2L 1st. If it's really that bad, join a dungeon running guild that runs discord w/exp players that run them daily.

Also, some dungeons are harder than others. PERIOD. Whether that's increased health of enemy, tweaked mobs, etc. it can be a serious chore for dps to constantly kill all adds then burn boss for a couple seconds then back to adds again. All the stupid nerfs to the game (mundus, sets, weapons, etc. etc.) make it even harder than it used to be for some areas. They need to raise the cp cap on certain vet areas as a level 10cp has no business in CoAII for example.

What does "L2L" stand for?

Tell me which type of thread is more common on forum, ‘help me git gud on parse’ or ‘toxic community kick me for doing little dmg’, it’s clear majority of potatoes don’t want advice to begin with, they just cry when they don’t get a carry.

inthecoconut · July 2018

I'm CP 320. I follow the typical allcast pve dps build. I attack weave, and have a mod that tells me when my dots need to be reapplied, I've nailed my rotation, and my gear is all invested 100% into maximizing damage.

But despite all this, I still only get 16-20k AoE dps and it makes me really sad because I don't know what else to do. Maybe upgrading all my gear from purple to gold? It can't honestly make up that much of a difference though, can it? I haven't done Vet dungeons yet because I can't figure out how to reliably get more than 20k dps.

Guppet · July 2018

Sparr0w wrote: »

Edaphon wrote: »

Ihonu wrote: »

There should be some Minimum dps test, before you can queque for Veteran Dungeons. Like a 10k dps Achievement on a dummy. There are Players running around, that do litterally like 3k dps and think that is okay, because it's actually enough for open world questing.

Serious question: how is that even possible?

Even the dreaded bow light attack spammers can get 10k+ with halfway decent gear.

Stack 30k health, run 0 set bonuses on green/blue heavy gear with impen so you don't have to repair as much

Its the rockstar build. It’s real. Heavy armour so they die less, masses of hp so they die less, survival set bonus, so they die less, bow so they take less damage.

All on the theory that you do no dps if your dead.

No damage and they still die!!!

Asardes · July 2018

The only player I kiked out of a dungeon recently was one who ported out as soon as we started the dungeon and didn't come back, and also refused to answer both group chat and PM from me, while we had completted ~30% of the dungeon - was vFG2 if I remember correctly. I also kicked another one a long time ago because he simply went AFK at the start of the dungeon and didn't come back; that one at least said he was getting a drink but it took way too long. Yet I didn't kick someone who said he was putting his kid to sleep because he said so and actually came back in about 5 minutes.

I have nothing against weak players queueing for base game dungeons or even normal DLC if they at least try to play, don't go AFK or repeatedly mess up mechanics and prevent others from progressing despite pretty clear text and visual indication. I consider such things to be a lack of basic respect towards other players. And lack of respect is what makes the game toxic.

josiahva · July 2018

Smasherx74 wrote: »

So past few days I decided to start going on my healer toon, trying to get as many crystals as I possibly can to finish my PVE DPS build. I've came to the realization that most peoples DPS is damn near non-existent. As a DPS even a low cp20 dps without any AOE can manage to be pulled through on my back, I mean it's not like every dungeon requires 4 people to complete on vet, at least not the vanilla ones. So I never had an issue with people, I would never vote kick people out unless they were intentionally stupid. However now my minds changed, I'm absolutely fed up with it.

For the third day in a row on my healer, I get put into a veteran group with terrible DPS. One day despite maintaining minor berserk, minor and major resolve/ward, and keeping major breach applied all damn near 24/7, I was told I'm useless. The DPS was absolutely terrible despite me doing my best to keep their resources up, and keep the buffs/debuffs up, all while healing these people. The tank is doing absolutely nothing but standing there occasionally applying taunt, the DPS is spamming light attacks, and I'm told I'm useless. I don't have to say, I left that group I wasn't going to be criticized by a bunch of casuals who have little to no understanding of how the game work, I even went out of my way to explain to the DPS they needed an AOE ability, tried to explain to the Tank he had to aggro ads, did my absolute best to keep group alive yet I'm useless because "they didn't need heals".

Now today, another terrible group. DPS does literally no AOE, most likely pulling under 10k single target, they appear to have no rotation, they're not maintaining DoTs or buffs/debuffs. I'm sitting here watching these people play and just hoping to god they'll figure it out and pull in more DPS. They were both above cp160 this time, in fact one was near max level. Yet the DPS was still terrible, even if one DPS was somewhat competent at their role it would have been much faster, yet it wasn't. It was like the DPS were two brand new players with no idea what they're doing, they're struggling to cut down trash mobs, and on the final boss of banished cells they aren't listening to me about the bubbles, they keep killing the ads and when they dont kill the ads they let too many pile up, the tank is bringing the ads near the boss and letting a few run off. The DPS is so minuscule I as a WARDEN HEALER am the one having to destroy the orbs because their DPS is so *** low they couldn't even prevent the boss from healing.

It's an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE to roll as anything BUT a DPS now in days. Now I've always been the guy to go after whoever was slandering the baggage in the group. In fact as my main DPS the other day I had a cp20 dps with me who was doing no DPS at all, and he ended up getting locked out the final boss so I completed it myself with the tank and healer. They wanted to kick the guy for not knowing what hes doing and having low dps, but I defended him and gave him a basic rundown. But now, I'm tired of it. No more Mr. NicePUG. The past three days I've been put into a group with a bad DPS on my healer. And I'm not having it anymore, I understand 100% why people vote low levels and low DPS bad roles. It's because of the people I've been having to deal with these past few days. I'm aware there are low CP DPS that are actually competent and can pull out as much DPS as their gear will allow them to. But guess what? I'm not risking ti anymore, I'm not going to waste 30mins to an hour on a group that struggled to cut down trash mobs or follow basic mechanics.

So now, if you're a low CP, or just bad at the game in general and we're que'd together, I'm kicking you. If the group doesn't want to kick you then I'm finding a new one. If the entire group is bad/low CP, then I'm finding a new one. I'll wait my 15 minutes for a reque because YOU'LL still be on the first trash mob within that time frame. If people want to come onto the forums and *** and complain about being kicked from a group because they're a khajiit mage, low CP. or bad at the game then how about getting good, leveling up, and not using a *** build? It's really not hard, you can pull a bare minimum of 20k DPS with any class at any level. The only excuse is incompetence, there are plenty of public builds to base on one. There is plenty of information on how to pull more DPS. A tank or healer, they don't even have to help the group to finish a dungeon, sure it's extremely helpful to contribute resources and keep buffs/debuffs, but is it really needed? No. A DPS however, guess what if you can't do AOE damage it's not going to work. If you can pull a minuscule 20k single target dps, it's not going to work. Go role as a Healer or a Tank and get good at that, you'll get a group faster and you'll save people like me from having our time wasted on you not knowing how to play your role properly. The DPS in this game is the hardest role, a healer/tank can run through a dungeon just as quickly as a really good healer/tank, but a bad DPS cannot even compete with a good DPS. So please, if you're one of these people and reading this, LEARN TO DPS, get a build that you can at least pull 20k. You can even go around grabbing random sets and you'll manage to be a tolerable DPS. Just for the love of god stop this low DPS arguably FAKE DPS *** in ques.

When I'm the person of all people saying this, you know there's a problem.

There is an easier solution here...don't pug. I mean...you have 5 guilds and 100 friends on your list by this point, if you dont enjoy pugging, just don't do it. A pug comes with good and bad players. I find this to be the problem:

1. I play a tank most times, often run into bad DPS(and less often bad heals). I just shrug and settle in for a long run, I dont have any problem staying alive or keeping them alive with shields if they are anywhere close to me. This still aggravates me to the point I go to #2.
2. I swap to a DPS...but the first thing I notice is the bad tanking...and being a main tank...bad tanking is absolutely unacceptable to me to the point I just grit my teeth to get through the dungeon as fast as possible...so that led me to #3
3. This is my solution: For pug groups these days for basic vet dungeons I use a hybrid Tank/DPS character capable of doing 20k DPS while tanking and throwing in some off-heals if needed. This ensures that the damage in a given group wont be absolutely terrible, and the tanking will be acceptable. To be clear...this type of build is good enough for basic vet dungeons, but will struggle quite a bit with vet DLC dungeons and cant take as much insane damage as a pure tank(one of those that dodging Velidreth's heavy is much preferable to blocking it) so I simply don't often run the vet DLC dungeons with this toon.

Anyway, the point is...with pugging, you really have 2 options...suck it up and deal with whatever you get...or build a character capable of picking up the slack others will inevitably leave you with...or option 3...don't pug. There are no other choices.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

josiahva wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

So past few days I decided to start going on my healer toon, trying to get as many crystals as I possibly can to finish my PVE DPS build. I've came to the realization that most peoples DPS is damn near non-existent. As a DPS even a low cp20 dps without any AOE can manage to be pulled through on my back, I mean it's not like every dungeon requires 4 people to complete on vet, at least not the vanilla ones. So I never had an issue with people, I would never vote kick people out unless they were intentionally stupid. However now my minds changed, I'm absolutely fed up with it.

For the third day in a row on my healer, I get put into a veteran group with terrible DPS. One day despite maintaining minor berserk, minor and major resolve/ward, and keeping major breach applied all damn near 24/7, I was told I'm useless. The DPS was absolutely terrible despite me doing my best to keep their resources up, and keep the buffs/debuffs up, all while healing these people. The tank is doing absolutely nothing but standing there occasionally applying taunt, the DPS is spamming light attacks, and I'm told I'm useless. I don't have to say, I left that group I wasn't going to be criticized by a bunch of casuals who have little to no understanding of how the game work, I even went out of my way to explain to the DPS they needed an AOE ability, tried to explain to the Tank he had to aggro ads, did my absolute best to keep group alive yet I'm useless because "they didn't need heals".

Now today, another terrible group. DPS does literally no AOE, most likely pulling under 10k single target, they appear to have no rotation, they're not maintaining DoTs or buffs/debuffs. I'm sitting here watching these people play and just hoping to god they'll figure it out and pull in more DPS. They were both above cp160 this time, in fact one was near max level. Yet the DPS was still terrible, even if one DPS was somewhat competent at their role it would have been much faster, yet it wasn't. It was like the DPS were two brand new players with no idea what they're doing, they're struggling to cut down trash mobs, and on the final boss of banished cells they aren't listening to me about the bubbles, they keep killing the ads and when they dont kill the ads they let too many pile up, the tank is bringing the ads near the boss and letting a few run off. The DPS is so minuscule I as a WARDEN HEALER am the one having to destroy the orbs because their DPS is so *** low they couldn't even prevent the boss from healing.

It's an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE to roll as anything BUT a DPS now in days. Now I've always been the guy to go after whoever was slandering the baggage in the group. In fact as my main DPS the other day I had a cp20 dps with me who was doing no DPS at all, and he ended up getting locked out the final boss so I completed it myself with the tank and healer. They wanted to kick the guy for not knowing what hes doing and having low dps, but I defended him and gave him a basic rundown. But now, I'm tired of it. No more Mr. NicePUG. The past three days I've been put into a group with a bad DPS on my healer. And I'm not having it anymore, I understand 100% why people vote low levels and low DPS bad roles. It's because of the people I've been having to deal with these past few days. I'm aware there are low CP DPS that are actually competent and can pull out as much DPS as their gear will allow them to. But guess what? I'm not risking ti anymore, I'm not going to waste 30mins to an hour on a group that struggled to cut down trash mobs or follow basic mechanics.

So now, if you're a low CP, or just bad at the game in general and we're que'd together, I'm kicking you. If the group doesn't want to kick you then I'm finding a new one. If the entire group is bad/low CP, then I'm finding a new one. I'll wait my 15 minutes for a reque because YOU'LL still be on the first trash mob within that time frame. If people want to come onto the forums and *** and complain about being kicked from a group because they're a khajiit mage, low CP. or bad at the game then how about getting good, leveling up, and not using a *** build? It's really not hard, you can pull a bare minimum of 20k DPS with any class at any level. The only excuse is incompetence, there are plenty of public builds to base on one. There is plenty of information on how to pull more DPS. A tank or healer, they don't even have to help the group to finish a dungeon, sure it's extremely helpful to contribute resources and keep buffs/debuffs, but is it really needed? No. A DPS however, guess what if you can't do AOE damage it's not going to work. If you can pull a minuscule 20k single target dps, it's not going to work. Go role as a Healer or a Tank and get good at that, you'll get a group faster and you'll save people like me from having our time wasted on you not knowing how to play your role properly. The DPS in this game is the hardest role, a healer/tank can run through a dungeon just as quickly as a really good healer/tank, but a bad DPS cannot even compete with a good DPS. So please, if you're one of these people and reading this, LEARN TO DPS, get a build that you can at least pull 20k. You can even go around grabbing random sets and you'll manage to be a tolerable DPS. Just for the love of god stop this low DPS arguably FAKE DPS *** in ques.

When I'm the person of all people saying this, you know there's a problem.

There is an easier solution here...don't pug. I mean...you have 5 guilds and 100 friends on your list by this point, if you dont enjoy pugging, just don't do it. A pug comes with good and bad players. I find this to be the problem:

1. I play a tank most times, often run into bad DPS(and less often bad heals). I just shrug and settle in for a long run, I dont have any problem staying alive or keeping them alive with shields if they are anywhere close to me. This still aggravates me to the point I go to #2.
2. I swap to a DPS...but the first thing I notice is the bad tanking...and being a main tank...bad tanking is absolutely unacceptable to me to the point I just grit my teeth to get through the dungeon as fast as possible...so that led me to #3
3. This is my solution: For pug groups these days for basic vet dungeons I use a hybrid Tank/DPS character capable of doing 20k DPS while tanking and throwing in some off-heals if needed. This ensures that the damage in a given group wont be absolutely terrible, and the tanking will be acceptable. To be clear...this type of build is good enough for basic vet dungeons, but will struggle quite a bit with vet DLC dungeons and cant take as much insane damage as a pure tank(one of those that dodging Velidreth's heavy is much preferable to blocking it) so I simply don't often run the vet DLC dungeons with this toon.

Anyway, the point is...with pugging, you really have 2 options...suck it up and deal with whatever you get...or build a character capable of picking up the slack others will inevitably leave you with...or option 3...don't pug. There are no other choices.

Or git gud at kicking.

What_In_Tarnation · July 2018

inthecoconut wrote: »

I'm CP 320. I follow the typical allcast pve dps build. I attack weave, and have a mod that tells me when my dots need to be reapplied, I've nailed my rotation, and my gear is all invested 100% into maximizing damage.

But despite all this, I still only get 16-20k AoE dps and it makes me really sad because I don't know what else to do. Maybe upgrading all my gear from purple to gold? It can't honestly make up that much of a difference though, can it? I haven't done Vet dungeons yet because I can't figure out how to reliably get more than 20k dps.

Always upgrade your weapon into gold quality first, the difference between purple and gold is pretty huge imo. Armors can stay purple quality.

What class,sets, mundus stone, potions, jewelry enchants, armor enchants...e.t.c. you're using for your build? Maybe cp, some dummy parse screenshots, skill setup and rotations?

FakeFox · July 2018

I think the primary problem is that ESO does a very poor job of preparing players for harder content. Most of the questing and levelling process is so laughably easy that you are never forced to actually plan out a functional build or learn advanced mechanics. I started out playing Guild Wars 2 recently and coming from ESO I decided that I would not worry with getting a functional build or useable gear until I'm in the endgame. And guess what happened, I regularly got absolutely destroyed by a few random mobs or some boss in the main story. This quickly lead to me rethinking my strategy and starting to read into builds and game mechanics in my leveling process. This was somewhat annoying and frustrating, however it gave me the necessary knowledge to start into the endgame without any problems. And I have yet to find someone being toxic to me as a new player.
So yeah, I think ZOS needs to somehow deal with this problem. I guess there are multiple solutions, force new players into a steeper learning curve, introduce intermediate difficulties, etc. etc.

Agenericname · July 2018

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

You know the problem with posting this on the forum?

These low DPS players more than likely don't read the forums unless there's an update/patch link on Facebook.

Solution:

If you notice someone with a bad build/dps, ask a friend who knows the class to help that specific build and connect the two. Be the solution in game, not on the forums.

Have you actually tried, they all just call you meta slave, they state it on forum too. They are very proud to be potato. If ppl carry them, they will think they actually did their part.

Have you tried it without the ad hominem? I'm not trying to be overly critical, but not everyone takes advice well with the insults. The focus at that point becomes the negative instead of anything positive that might have been there.

AdicusDio wrote: »

"Spamming light attacks" saves stamina if stamina-based and is better than standing there doing nothing waiting for a pot cool down to reset or enough stam to regen.

FWIRW, depending on your CP allotment, crit chance, and sets you are running, it's possible to get 15k+ per light attack w/bow (i.e. 15k damage PER HIT) for example which can actually be higher than some stam abilities. Also, some abilities REQUIRE X AMOUNT OF LIGHT ATTACKS to get their intended benefit.

So before uninformed posts like this spread more ignorance and creates random dungeon aggression that almost always comes from a mid 250-450-CP tank or healer that seemingly "knows" more about dps than their own builds, L2L 1st. If it's really that bad, join a dungeon running guild that runs discord w/exp players that run them daily.

Also, some dungeons are harder than others. PERIOD. Whether that's increased health of enemy, tweaked mobs, etc. it can be a serious chore for dps to constantly kill all adds then burn boss for a couple seconds then back to adds again. All the stupid nerfs to the game (mundus, sets, weapons, etc. etc.) make it even harder than it used to be for some areas. They need to raise the cp cap on certain vet areas as a level 10cp has no business in CoAII for example.

What does "L2L" stand for?

Tell me which type of thread is more common on forum, ‘help me git gud on parse’ or ‘toxic community kick me for doing little dmg’, it’s clear majority of potatoes don’t want advice to begin with, they just cry when they don’t get a carry.

This negates my point in which Way? It's a deflection at best and only truly reinforces why I don't dinstiguish between the toxicity on one side of this argument from the other.

Bladerunner1 · July 2018

inthecoconut wrote: »

I'm CP 320. I follow the typical allcast pve dps build. I attack weave, and have a mod that tells me when my dots need to be reapplied, I've nailed my rotation, and my gear is all invested 100% into maximizing damage.

But despite all this, I still only get 16-20k AoE dps and it makes me really sad because I don't know what else to do. Maybe upgrading all my gear from purple to gold? It can't honestly make up that much of a difference though, can it? I haven't done Vet dungeons yet because I can't figure out how to reliably get more than 20k dps.

Those builds tend to focus on single target DPS, it's no surprise if you have AOE DPS issues while following them exactly. In four player dungeons you're better at pulling weight if you change the build and slot more AOE related things. Add lightning staff heavy attacks and an AOE skill if you have it for a magicka class, or steel tornado or shrouded daggers for stamina.

And it was already mentioned but upgrading weapons to gold can help a lot.

Odnoc · July 2018

Meh, I’d rather have a lower dps in the group than one that can’t survive mechanics, which I’ve run into with many higher cp players. If you’re double my cp and you can’t stay alive there is an issue. Low CP shouldn’t be a reason to kick.

Sparr0w · July 2018

inthecoconut wrote: »

I'm CP 320. I follow the typical allcast pve dps build. I attack weave, and have a mod that tells me when my dots need to be reapplied, I've nailed my rotation, and my gear is all invested 100% into maximizing damage.

But despite all this, I still only get 16-20k AoE dps and it makes me really sad because I don't know what else to do. Maybe upgrading all my gear from purple to gold? It can't honestly make up that much of a difference though, can it? I haven't done Vet dungeons yet because I can't figure out how to reliably get more than 20k dps.

20-25k is basically cap that CP as I found (single target)... gold gear doesn't do much, gold weapons and monster set would do a bit tho.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Agenericname wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

You know the problem with posting this on the forum?

These low DPS players more than likely don't read the forums unless there's an update/patch link on Facebook.

Solution:

If you notice someone with a bad build/dps, ask a friend who knows the class to help that specific build and connect the two. Be the solution in game, not on the forums.

Have you actually tried, they all just call you meta slave, they state it on forum too. They are very proud to be potato. If ppl carry them, they will think they actually did their part.

Have you tried it without the ad hominem? I'm not trying to be overly critical, but not everyone takes advice well with the insults. The focus at that point becomes the negative instead of anything positive that might have been there.

AdicusDio wrote: »

"Spamming light attacks" saves stamina if stamina-based and is better than standing there doing nothing waiting for a pot cool down to reset or enough stam to regen.

FWIRW, depending on your CP allotment, crit chance, and sets you are running, it's possible to get 15k+ per light attack w/bow (i.e. 15k damage PER HIT) for example which can actually be higher than some stam abilities. Also, some abilities REQUIRE X AMOUNT OF LIGHT ATTACKS to get their intended benefit.

So before uninformed posts like this spread more ignorance and creates random dungeon aggression that almost always comes from a mid 250-450-CP tank or healer that seemingly "knows" more about dps than their own builds, L2L 1st. If it's really that bad, join a dungeon running guild that runs discord w/exp players that run them daily.

Also, some dungeons are harder than others. PERIOD. Whether that's increased health of enemy, tweaked mobs, etc. it can be a serious chore for dps to constantly kill all adds then burn boss for a couple seconds then back to adds again. All the stupid nerfs to the game (mundus, sets, weapons, etc. etc.) make it even harder than it used to be for some areas. They need to raise the cp cap on certain vet areas as a level 10cp has no business in CoAII for example.

What does "L2L" stand for?

Tell me which type of thread is more common on forum, ‘help me git gud on parse’ or ‘toxic community kick me for doing little dmg’, it’s clear majority of potatoes don’t want advice to begin with, they just cry when they don’t get a carry.

This negates my point in which Way? It's a deflection at best and only truly reinforces why I don't dinstiguish between the toxicity on one side of this argument from the other.

This negate your point as your advice will not be accepted no mater how you deliver it, if the person on receiving end don’t want any advice to begins with.

Olen_Mikko · July 2018

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Yea, with zaan and bis gear. How can you think casual without basic understanding of veteran stuff etc, could achieve them?

You know, that just shows how far away from realism you elitists have wandered.

What is easy to you, might be too hard and therefore not interesting enough to complete for some.

Here is just light attacks + AOE DoTs with crafted + overland gear (sure there is a monster set, but it's only 1.2k DPS). No spammable. No buffs, not even ele drain (only a brief major sorcery from the netch I cast for sustain).

That's 22k from just spamming light attack and casting AOE DoTs when the old ones expire.

Mix a spammable in there and keep up your buffs, and you're easily looking at 25k+ DPS. Anyone who can't hit these numbers has absolutely no business doing vet content.

Just while ago, i did veteran CoH 1, with my guildies. I had more cp than them combine, lowest being cp33. I was with my magblade dd/heal setup and had to carry us a lot.

And you know what? I told what to do, explained machanics and we succeeded it with only one wipe.

Sure, i lost 15 minutes of my precious time, while making 3 other players feel accepted and respected, with good stuff.

No need to be elitist ***

Feel respected for being carried?

Felt respected, that they were told what to do and how to do it. They felt respected, that i compliment them on their succession and despite being awfully low dps, they still got the job done and not get shouted or blamed

Aebaradath · July 2018

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Yea, with zaan and bis gear. How can you think casual without basic understanding of veteran stuff etc, could achieve them?

You know, that just shows how far away from realism you elitists have wandered.

What is easy to you, might be too hard and therefore not interesting enough to complete for some.

Here is just light attacks + AOE DoTs with crafted + overland gear (sure there is a monster set, but it's only 1.2k DPS). No spammable. No buffs, not even ele drain (only a brief major sorcery from the netch I cast for sustain).

That's 22k from just spamming light attack and casting AOE DoTs when the old ones expire.

Mix a spammable in there and keep up your buffs, and you're easily looking at 25k+ DPS. Anyone who can't hit these numbers has absolutely no business doing vet content.

Just while ago, i did veteran CoH 1, with my guildies. I had more cp than them combine, lowest being cp33. I was with my magblade dd/heal setup and had to carry us a lot.

And you know what? I told what to do, explained machanics and we succeeded it with only one wipe.

Sure, i lost 15 minutes of my precious time, while making 3 other players feel accepted and respected, with good stuff.

No need to be elitist ***

Feel respected for being carried?

Felt respected, that they were told what to do and how to do it. They felt respected, that i compliment them on their succession and despite being awfully low dps, they still got the job done and not get shouted or blamed

His name is LeagueTroll - do you honestly think you can have a discussion with him?

Inarre · July 2018

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Never do dungeons with strangers. Only let a pug in if just to fill out the queue then vote and kick the extra immediately. Life will be simpler.

What is even the point of this. Why queue to fill a role you're going to kick? Just port into the dungeon manually.

Seriously this is some self entitlement. You might want to consider therapy.

DenMoria · July 2018

And... with a post like this... I'm out.

Yet more proof that the elitists are alive and well.

Enjoy your game boys 'cause NOBODY is ever going to want to play with you long term.

BTW: Valid criticism and advice does not need to be couched in insult, derision and hostility.

Lucious90 · July 2018

I think a solution to this is to group players of similar levels in the group finder. Do like 10 levels in normal and 100cp per vet level all the way to max. While it does nothing for those who are leveling another character it should help with those actually leveling to keep players of similar skill grouped together.

Kuramas9tails · July 2018

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

You know the problem with posting this on the forum?

These low DPS players more than likely don't read the forums unless there's an update/patch link on Facebook.

Solution:

If you notice someone with a bad build/dps, ask a friend who knows the class to help that specific build and connect the two. Be the solution in game, not on the forums.

Have you actually tried, they all just call you meta slave, they state it on forum too. They are very proud to be potato. If ppl carry them, they will think they actually did their part.

I have. I have helped MANY people. I only had one person who got mad and actually left our guild which is fine. That is how i got help, ya know? A couple of people weren't going on the forums to complain about my build. I was a hybrid Khajiit Stamblade with a mix of any gear I picked up and any skill that I thought sounded good. They, instead, asked me about my build and I am forever grateful I had them aid me in my ESO life, even though I don't talk to them anymore.

Now that is a lasting impact someone positively made that was genuinely nice and helped and as a result, I have done the same for others I come across. I have bought so many of them horse mounts too so they at least had one. Instead of complaining about them, I offer help. And my boyfriend and I pug a lot of groups.

Pay it forward.

dtsharples · July 2018

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

I actually went and swapped Shadow Dancer for Julianos because I wasn't getting the full bonus for my sets (x2 for staves since Summerset) and it's virtually impossible to find Shadow Dancer Staves. Not sure why...

In any case: started using Eledrain, potions. Simple ones for now until I get used to it, I don't want to waste the expensive kind on training dummies. Will try swapping the recovery glyphs as well once I am more used to the rotation; right now I'm still running out of magicka if I'm not careful.

But the one good thing about all this is that I've added about 1K to my damage; that is progress, right?!

\o/
This right here is the action needed if people want to improve.
I take my hat off to you Ghanima, showing the initiative to ask for a bit of help -and then actually trying it out - is why you will very soon be beating down the doors of vMoL

While the 'potatoes' who do not wish to learn, or improve, or take advice - and just scream ELITISM To solve all the problems, Will still be slowing down Banished Cells runs this time next year.

Agenericname · July 2018

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

You know the problem with posting this on the forum?

These low DPS players more than likely don't read the forums unless there's an update/patch link on Facebook.

Solution:

If you notice someone with a bad build/dps, ask a friend who knows the class to help that specific build and connect the two. Be the solution in game, not on the forums.

Have you actually tried, they all just call you meta slave, they state it on forum too. They are very proud to be potato. If ppl carry them, they will think they actually did their part.

Have you tried it without the ad hominem? I'm not trying to be overly critical, but not everyone takes advice well with the insults. The focus at that point becomes the negative instead of anything positive that might have been there.

AdicusDio wrote: »

"Spamming light attacks" saves stamina if stamina-based and is better than standing there doing nothing waiting for a pot cool down to reset or enough stam to regen.

FWIRW, depending on your CP allotment, crit chance, and sets you are running, it's possible to get 15k+ per light attack w/bow (i.e. 15k damage PER HIT) for example which can actually be higher than some stam abilities. Also, some abilities REQUIRE X AMOUNT OF LIGHT ATTACKS to get their intended benefit.

So before uninformed posts like this spread more ignorance and creates random dungeon aggression that almost always comes from a mid 250-450-CP tank or healer that seemingly "knows" more about dps than their own builds, L2L 1st. If it's really that bad, join a dungeon running guild that runs discord w/exp players that run them daily.

Also, some dungeons are harder than others. PERIOD. Whether that's increased health of enemy, tweaked mobs, etc. it can be a serious chore for dps to constantly kill all adds then burn boss for a couple seconds then back to adds again. All the stupid nerfs to the game (mundus, sets, weapons, etc. etc.) make it even harder than it used to be for some areas. They need to raise the cp cap on certain vet areas as a level 10cp has no business in CoAII for example.

What does "L2L" stand for?

Tell me which type of thread is more common on forum, ‘help me git gud on parse’ or ‘toxic community kick me for doing little dmg’, it’s clear majority of potatoes don’t want advice to begin with, they just cry when they don’t get a carry.

This negates my point in which Way? It's a deflection at best and only truly reinforces why I don't dinstiguish between the toxicity on one side of this argument from the other.

This negate your point as your advice will not be accepted no mater how you deliver it, if the person on receiving end don’t want any advice to begins with.

Technically it would be your advice, not mine, it wasn't an indefinite you, although it certainly applies.

I'll take that as a "no."

As I generally don't tell others how to play, I really can't tell you how my advice would be received. The extent of my advice is to point someone to who is a good source of information, aside from obvious things like standing in the red of course.

I seen people, in dungeons, give and receive advice. I've seen people grateful for it. In my group experience, for which I should count myself as lucky I suppose, I've seen exactly 2 vote kicks. This is normal, dlc, vet, and trials. In one instance a guy asked to be kicked for queuing into the wrong dungeon and the other I was kicked.

I walked through a wall, somehow into white space outside of the dungeon, and couldn't reenter. After rebooting and reloadui didn't fix it, I was kicked. I don't blame them and not even slightly bitter about it. That counts vote kick attempts as well, 2.

I've seen a couple of negative comments. Not many at all. In fact, the only time I've ever seen someone called a potato, sociopath, or any negative connotation of "meta" anything has been in the forums.

Clearly this argument doesn't rest on personal anecdotes or broad assumptions. What is universally true is that use of ad hominem isn't a reflection of the person being attacked as much as it is the person attacking.