This is why YOU get kicked for being low CP or bad at DPS/Heals/Tank

Olen_Mikko

To me this sounds like super elite is talking down on casuals.

If dungeons are chore to you, why don't you form a group of your kind and leave dungeon finder to casuals?

Yes, i do partly agree that when doing veteran stuff, people should at least know mechanics and be able to do decent damage. In veteran dungeons, 20kish dps is fine for starters.

Not everyone wants to be the ultimate champion of dps. They want to find builds themselves. They want builds to fit their playstyle. They want builds to fit their own lore.

Besides, is it that hard to be friendly and try to explain nicely, why 10k dps is not suitable for veteran stuff and how to improve it?

We all have been noobs once.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

Had a similar soul crushing experience when I picked up tanking for the first time. I qued for a vwgt and the grp was on the pinion boss, I guess they were hoping there sweat 15k total dps and the none existent heals would pull us through to victory. I did a few more randoms and all were just as bad. So I'm not going to pug for 6 months or so (long enough for me to forget the awful experience) and then reapeat it all over again.

firedrgn

Welp i have found that pet mag sorc is best pug toon. You can dps 30 to 40 k and the pet heals for 12k
So i can go as a healer or dps. I switch to earth gore also if needed. Twillight can heal normal dungeons no problem.

ResTandRespeC

AuldWolf wrote: »

It makes my head spin.

I've never known any other game where sociopaths come forward and freely admit their toxicity and elitism to everyone. What do you think that publicly embodying the dark triad gets you? This 'YOU' nonsense, especially.

This is what's killing the trial scene, and it's what will put the final nail in the coffin. This is why people don't play trials, because they're forced to group with people like the OP. ZeniMax needs to take the forced grouping element away by having trials scale tot he number of people entering, with the minimum number being 1 or 2 people. This way, people can get together to have a fun dungeon run in any number, but they aren't forced to group with a person like the OP.

Removing forced grouping from trials is the only way to cut away this toxicity from the game. The trial scene is only going to continue to implode, and threads like this will continue to be posted right up until the trial scene completely dies off and only sociopathic people are running it. I suspect we're pretty close to that point already.

ZOS is doing themselves no favours by catering to this crowd. It looks bad for the game.

Theres just different types of content. Its called veteran for a reason. Unfortunately your doing the same exact thing you judge them for doing. Misunderstanding is the root. Trial scene doing just fine btw.

To be honest I usually find that people who call others "toxic" and "elitist" are usually the ones who are themselves the drain on community as they usually display very little understanding of others and seem to think they always know best. Just an observation though.

Seri

dave011 wrote: »

move along all I can see is elitist ***! You queued for a random so you get what you are given you have 2 choices either do your job of f off

Uhhhhh......

Smasherx74 wrote: »

One day despite maintaining minor berserk, minor and major resolve/ward, and keeping major breach applied all damn near 24/7, I was told I'm useless. The DPS was absolutely terrible despite me doing my best to keep their resources up, and keep the buffs/debuffs up, all while healing these people. The tank is doing absolutely nothing but standing there occasionally applying taunt, the DPS is spamming light attacks, and I'm told I'm useless.

OP was queued a healer, healed everyone, kept a whole bunch of buffs/debuffs up, and so was doing their job... And you're calling the OP an elitist because should take what you get, even though the other people in the group seemingly weren't doing their job?

adriant1978

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

mocap

difference between 40k group dps and 60k is very small (let's assume that there is 0 damage from healer). On 5000k boss (vet hm) the difference is about 35 seconds. Not that much. On trash vet bosses this difference is like 10 seconds longer fight. Meh.

For me, it's more about mechanics. Group DPS may not be that high, 40-50k is ok for me (cuz another +20k will come from my healer )), but if dudes start dying on fire waves from Blessed Crucible last boss, it drives me nuts.

adeptusminor

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

anitajoneb17_ESO

Let's just repeat the obvious once again ;

If you have expectations, DO NOT PUG.

Aimora

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Let's just repeat the obvious once again ;

If you have expectations, DO NOT PUG.

This totally - if you want an optimal run do it with friends or a guild!

Guppet

This thread is comedy gold.

Look at all these elitist players assuming everyone else takes the age the same level of serious as they do.

It’s an echo chamber in here you idiots.

This place is filled with those that do take it as seriously as you. It’s easily 90% players who take it seriously enough to even use the forums.

Your all going to know what the meta is. Chances are you parse and you’ll even spreadsheet stuff.

The people here are a teeny tiny percentage of the player base. The people you associate with in game are probably similar to you also.

The people you want to read this never will!! They don’t come to the forums, they don’t know what the meta is, they don’t parse. They are also the vast vast majority.

People claiming everyone can do 30k dps easily, lol. Only once you take the game seriously and farm decent gear. Most never will.

All this does is tell people who play as you want them to play, that they are playing as you like.

Your telling your book club that everyone should read the latest book. They already have.

adriant1978

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Now do it without Zaan and Siroria. The assertion was that 30k needed just DoTs, AoE, and spammable. No mention of trials gear or proc sets.

NickStern

VaranisArano wrote: »

I highly advise players who are new to group dungeons to know how much DPS they do (addons on PC/training dummy on console) and queue for content accordingly.

You don't have to do amazing DPS to start doing group dungeons. 7k to 15k DPS is pretty solid for most normal dungeons, but you are going to have to up your game to do Vet dungeons or Trials, and you'll never improve if you don't know how much DPS you do.

You get an awesome just for offering advice and help to improve people.


Rather then being an elitist jerk that Picked up his bat and ball and went crying home to Momma.

Olen_Mikko

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Yea, with zaan and bis gear. How can you think casual without basic understanding of veteran stuff etc, could achieve them?

You know, that just shows how far away from realism you elitists have wandered.

What is easy to you, might be too hard and therefore not interesting enough to complete for some.

MLGProPlayer

This is why I don't play healer or tank. If I'm a support and I get 2 crappy DPS, it's game over.

Septimus_Magna

The group finder should match players based on CP, there should be (at least) 4 categories.

Low CP (between 1-160)
Mid CP (between 161-300)
High CP (between 301-600)
Very High CP (more than 600)

Most problems would disappear, low CP players wouldnt be carried as much so they might do some research into the dungeon mechanics or dps rotation.

NickStern

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The group finder should match players based on CP, there should be (at least) 4 categories.

Low CP (between 1-160)
Mid CP (between 161-300)
High CP (between 301-600)
Very High CP (more than 600)

Most problems would disappear, low CP players wouldnt be carried as much so they might do some research into the dungeon mechanics or dps rotation.

That is a great Idea....


Of course that means ZOS will not consider it....

adeptusminor

adriant1978 wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Now do it without Zaan and Siroria. The assertion was that 30k needed just DoTs, AoE, and spammable. No mention of trials gear or proc sets.

It’s without food and no eledrain (a true pug experience )Zaans is about 3k of that 33k parse. The difference between sioria and a crafted set like Julianos isn’t some massive difference that’s going to add 20k to the 10k dps people are talking about here. The op is correct, in Summerset a lot of classes can now hit 30k with just Light attacks, aoes/dots, and ults.

MLGProPlayer

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Yea, with zaan and bis gear. How can you think casual without basic understanding of veteran stuff etc, could achieve them?

You know, that just shows how far away from realism you elitists have wandered.

What is easy to you, might be too hard and therefore not interesting enough to complete for some.

Here is just light attacks + AOE DoTs with crafted + overland gear (sure there is a monster set, but it's only 1.2k DPS). No spammable. No buffs, not even ele drain (only a brief major sorcery from the netch I cast for sustain).

That's 22k from just spamming light attack and casting AOE DoTs when the old ones expire.

Mix a spammable in there and keep up your buffs, and you're easily looking at 25k+ DPS. Anyone who can't hit these numbers has absolutely no business doing vet content.

adriant1978

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Now do it without Zaan and Siroria. The assertion was that 30k needed just DoTs, AoE, and spammable. No mention of trials gear or proc sets.

It’s without food and no eledrain (a true pug experience )Zaans is about 3k of that 33k parse. The difference between sioria and a crafted set like Julianos isn’t some massive difference that’s going to add 20k to the 10k dps people are talking about here. The op is correct, in Summerset a lot of classes can now hit 30k with just Light attacks, aoes/dots, and ults.

I never said that your DPS would be 10k without those sets, but I think it wouldn't be 30k either.

Challenge is still open to anyone who wants to post a 30k parse from just "literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spammable and popping ult when ready" with no Minor Slayer, endgame proc set, etc.

If you people want us who struggle to get near 30k to feel like *** then you need to show that it really is possible with skill alone.

Guppet

adriant1978 wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Now do it without Zaan and Siroria. The assertion was that 30k needed just DoTs, AoE, and spammable. No mention of trials gear or proc sets.

It’s without food and no eledrain (a true pug experience )Zaans is about 3k of that 33k parse. The difference between sioria and a crafted set like Julianos isn’t some massive difference that’s going to add 20k to the 10k dps people are talking about here. The op is correct, in Summerset a lot of classes can now hit 30k with just Light attacks, aoes/dots, and ults.

I never said that your DPS would be 10k without those sets, but I think it wouldn't be 30k either.

Challenge is still open to anyone who wants to post a 30k parse from just "literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spammable and popping ult when ready" with no Minor Slayer, endgame proc set, etc.

If you people want us who struggle to get near 30k to feel like *** then you need to show that it really is possible with skill alone.

I think as it’s a non meta player your trying to simulate you probably need more criteria.

Blue sets only.
No monster sets (they require vet completion, even then the weight and perks are random, so they won’t have the optimised ones most here will)
No potions.
Sets that are available from non dlc dungeons or craftable with 5 or fewer traits.

It’s easy to forget just how optimised you can be in this game.

Heck I’d even suggest, dare I say it, no animation cancelling.

These are all the edges you have over people who take the game less serious.

If you break mid 20k dps I’d be shocked.

adeptusminor

adriant1978 wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Now do it without Zaan and Siroria. The assertion was that 30k needed just DoTs, AoE, and spammable. No mention of trials gear or proc sets.

It’s without food and no eledrain (a true pug experience )Zaans is about 3k of that 33k parse. The difference between sioria and a crafted set like Julianos isn’t some massive difference that’s going to add 20k to the 10k dps people are talking about here. The op is correct, in Summerset a lot of classes can now hit 30k with just Light attacks, aoes/dots, and ults.

I never said that your DPS would be 10k without those sets, but I think it wouldn't be 30k either.

Challenge is still open to anyone who wants to post a 30k parse from just "literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spammable and popping ult when ready" with no Minor Slayer, endgame proc set, etc.

If you people want us who struggle to get near 30k to feel like *** then you need to show that it really is possible with skill alone.

I mean, you do realize that you are asking for someone to post a rotation, right? In other words, if I use my aoe/dots/and ult, my dps will be even higher that my other post, even without a monster set or Siioria?

edit: And the intention isn't to make you feel bad for struggling to hit 30k. If anything, hopefully I won't be the only person to post a parse soon, so that you can see it should be much easier to hit 30k than you think, so you are possibly making things much tougher to get high dps than they should be.

Aurielle

This is why my former Warden healer was reborn as a Templar named “Judges-You-Silently.” I had trouble putting out enough DPS while healing as a Warden to make up for the garbage players you find in PUGs, so I coughed up the cash to make life a little easier. My Templar only puts out around 20-25k DPS, but it’s enough to carry the group through a vet dungeon while still pumping out effective heals (and occasionally tanking, because bad/fake tanks abound!)

I haven’t read through all the replies, but I’m going to guess you’re being called an elitist and told not to use the group finder and whatnot. Ignore these people. They are either insecure about their own terrible DPS, or they’re the sort of people who have oodles of free time on their hands and do not mind spending an hour or more on a dungeon that can be completed in 20 minutes.

There’s really no excuse for two DDs who can barely cobble together 15k DPS between the two of them in a vet dungeon, and it’s not worth your time to argue with anyone who thinks it’s okay for two players to drag down a group that way.

TheGr8David

I'm glad I'm not the only one having this problem. I don't expect DDs to manage the highest DPS and I encourage build theorycrafting and unique set ups, but not if you're not good at it. A DD can avoid the "Meta" and still manage to pull about 30K DPS with good sets and a well thought out rotation that works, but if you're running a "unique" build and you're only pulling 10K DPS, then don't be surprised when you get kicked out of that Veteran Fang Lair group for not pulling your weight.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

I get 30k DPS without using light attacks, so yeah and using trash pots and ablitys to give me the major buffs.


To the op, the way I handle it is vote to kick and if they don't get booted, I leave. I have 10 toons and the cool down for the group finder is per toon, not account.

Numerikuu

Guppet wrote: »

Heck I’d even suggest, dare I say it, no animation cancelling.

This as well. The majority don't animation cancel. (So tired that the game is being built around that *** now, especially when it leaves the disabled in the dirt...)

MLGProPlayer

Numerikuu wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Heck I’d even suggest, dare I say it, no animation cancelling.

This as well. The majority don't animation cancel. (So tired that the game is being built around that *** now, especially when it leaves the disabled in the dirt...)

You can easily hit 25k+ (probably even 30k) this patch without animation cancelling.

Sparr0w

Best player I've come across was CP230... js. Worst was CP680 & that was 3 days ago.

Dont vote to kick before the first pull, or the first boss & if you queue for randoms, do some DPS yourself. I run Juli on my healer & tank for pugs, back bar a lightning staff & have 2 dots. Unless you're running DLC then CP really doesn't matter (even running DLC cp matters less than knowing what tf you're doing).

MLGProPlayer

Guppet wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

30k This patch is literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spamable and popping ult when ready.

No, no it isn't.

It really is. This was with just light attacks+spammable/trap/merciless resolve and execute. Not even using any AOEs, DoTs or ults

Now do it without Zaan and Siroria. The assertion was that 30k needed just DoTs, AoE, and spammable. No mention of trials gear or proc sets.

It’s without food and no eledrain (a true pug experience )Zaans is about 3k of that 33k parse. The difference between sioria and a crafted set like Julianos isn’t some massive difference that’s going to add 20k to the 10k dps people are talking about here. The op is correct, in Summerset a lot of classes can now hit 30k with just Light attacks, aoes/dots, and ults.

I never said that your DPS would be 10k without those sets, but I think it wouldn't be 30k either.

Challenge is still open to anyone who wants to post a 30k parse from just "literally throwing down AOEs, DOTs and using your spammable and popping ult when ready" with no Minor Slayer, endgame proc set, etc.

If you people want us who struggle to get near 30k to feel like *** then you need to show that it really is possible with skill alone.

I think as it’s a non meta player your trying to simulate you probably need more criteria.

Blue sets only.
No monster sets (they require vet completion, even then the weight and perks are random, so they won’t have the optimised ones most here will)
No potions.
Sets that are available from non dlc dungeons or craftable with 5 or fewer traits.

It’s easy to forget just how optimised you can be in this game.

Heck I’d even suggest, dare I say it, no animation cancelling.

These are all the edges you have over people who take the game less serious.

If you break mid 20k dps I’d be shocked.

If you want to do group content, you need to make an effort to be prepared for that content.

There is no excuse for not having optimized potions or food. That has nothing to do with skill. Google a potion/food list and make them.

Getting all your gear to purple quality isn't a question of skill either. It's just a few thousand gold.

If you don't want to put in the bare minimum effort, then stick to overland content. It's that simple.

adeptusminor

So, light attacks, spammable, dots aoes and ult. Gear was mothers sorrow (farmable in Deshaan, or purchasable at a guild trader) and burning spell weave (attainable from COA1, one of, if not, the easiest dungeon, grothdarr shoulder, which is also available from vCOA1, the easiest vet dungeon), and skoria helm. While the skoria helm is harder to obtain, it was the only other head piece I have and it's +health, and the main goal was to not wear a proc set. so I just used those two different monster pieces. I also used the trash magicka potions that drop from overworld.

edit: I did use eledrain on this, and no, I don't feel bad about it