Please Increase the difficulty of Veteran Trials.

WhitePawPrints · June 2018

I take a lot of new guildies that express real interest in vet trials through vet trials. They follow directions well enough but some of them will likely never see a clear of the DLC vet trials. So no. I dont always have my A-Team available, and that’s why I train a lot of others. Craglorn trials are vital for getting my new guildies, that meet the requirements, trained and prepared for the harder trials.

karekiz · June 2018

Power creep sounds bad, but in practice and content isn't.

Power creep only becomes a problem if a MMO doesn't release new content to contend with the power creep. For instance ICP/WGT are currently "easy" dungeons. Compare them with Horns <FH> for instance and the dungeon steps it up a notch.

We do get new raids fairly often. So I am ok with older content being opened up for more people. There will always be new content for the upper end. Rather than nerf and rebalance it just reorganizes itself into a progression system.

Bigevilpeter · June 2018

All trials just like DLC dungeons get easier the more people get used to it, there will always be those elitist guilds that beat everything so easy while the rest of the community can't beat most of the end game content.

At least now its accessible to 30% of the population instead on 5%. HM will still be hard except for maybe 1% of the population.

So lets not ruin the game for everyone just to please this 1%

LioraValkyrie · July 2018

The difficulty of content should be judged by the length of time it takes a group of skilled players to walk in blind and learn it well enough for it to seem easy. Everything will seem easy after you have cleared it a hundred times, but if your first clear took 20 hours or more, and your first no-death speedrun took another 50 hours on top of that - just because you can do it no-death/speed every time now - it's not easy! That's not to mention the hours spent in front of the target skeleton, farming gear, gold and mats, grinding skill lines, and all the rest.

I think anyone asking for harder vet trials is really just craving that amazing feeling of achieving their first clear after dozens of hours of wiping, swearing, giving up, going back and finally kicking ass. Maybe join up with a group of newish players and get that same sense of satisfaction by teaching them and seeing how they progress with your guidance.

To encourage this kind of reciprocation within the community, perhaps ZoS should add a new set of achievements to the game for people in this situation: "Be present in a group where 8 or more players receive the Drom A'thra skin, whilst already possessing the Drom A'thra Destroyer title yourself," and likewise for all other veteran trials and dungeons.

Also, I agree 100% with @code65536

Peekachu99 · July 2018

Old content should become easier as time goes on, that’s progression and it’s natural.

MerlinPendragon · July 2018

Please increase the difficulty of everything in game.

XiDiabolismiX · July 2018

MaddPowered wrote: »

Power Creep is a process that sometimes occurs in games where new content slowly outstrip the power of previous alternatives.

With the past few patches, The over all DPS has increased significantly, resulting in the ease of burning through all mechanics that make trials fun.
People are doing pad 5 burns on rakkhat in hard mode. 1 prayer phase twins. 1 add phase varlariel. 7 minute vAS +2 clears. The list goes on and on.

Now I am not complaining about DPS being too high, don't get me wrong. I want DPS to stay exactly where it is. But i think it is time for another buff to all trials. (Much like they did back in Dark Brotherhood and Shadows of the Hist, vr12 > vr16)

It has gotten to the point where every trial in the game now (With the exception of vCR HM) has become too easy. vMoL for example, It used to be the hardest trial in the game but now has gotten to the point where it is one of the easiest. vHoF and vAS HM are on their way to that status too.

I think that it has gotten to the point where there needs to be a revamp to all the current raids in the game. Increase the overall HP of everything, Scale up the damage and maybe add in new mechanics to all fights and add in new loot / sets we can earn from completing the raids. Because as of right now, Vet trials as a whole are not rewarding at all.

Now i get that not all people in this game who raid will agree with me. Some will disagree with me 100%. But i feel like the majority of end game raiders will agree.

Lets hear your thoughts in the comments of this post.

The moment you yourself are able to complete the trials in the manners you’ve suggested should be the day you complain about power creep...

Give us a list out of the entire end game community and on every platform that has achieved those feats. Then compare that list with the amount of raiders that have not finished any of that content that easily. I am guessing it will be a very short list.

I do agree that things are a bit easier due to slight gains in overall dps, but strictly from a mechanics standpoint, you’ve got teams all over struggling just to finish the dlc trials on vet anymore. I think the end game community is in a good place at the moment, albeit with the lag and dc’s (at least on console) that has made a huge majority of raiders quit.

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

MaddPowered wrote: »

Now I am not complaining about DPS being too high, don't get me wrong. I want DPS to stay exactly where it is. But i think it is time for another buff to all trials. (Much like they did back in Dark Brotherhood and Shadows of the Hist, vr12 > vr16)

Whether they keep DPS the same and increase trial difficulty or lower DPS and keep trial difficulty the same is irrelevant as the end result would be the same.

Shad0wfire99 · July 2018

Nebthet78 wrote: »

How about NO!!!

Enough is Enough to making changes to this game to serve the 1% of players who find it too easy. I'm sick and tired of being nerfed back again and again because of changes made because top end trials guilds like Hodor and Mechanically Challenge wiz through Trials and skip mechanics.

There are other people in this game that enjoy trials, or want to, but get shut out of doing them because of changes made that utterly blocks the person's progression or worse yet, completely reduces it and takes them back two years.

You want to complain that these are too damn easy, why don't you go down and play with a bunch of lower grade players that most of you elite people refuse to play with because they don't meet "your" standards. Then see just how easy it is for the general population.

I've seen enough of the trials community to know that most of those people that are whining that things are too easy are those players who shun anyone beneath their standards and end up creating dedicated secret channels in discord and other apps that keep the lower tiered members out of any communication with them, because they don't want to play with them. And once that *** starts, all those elitist players end up leaving the guild to go create their own guild, then some drama BS starts up 6 months or so down the road in there, over peoples massive egos and the whole cycle starts all over again.

Don't complain about the game being too easy, for you or other elitists, as you likely don't play with the general populace of the game on a regular basis.

Most players in this game can't parse at over 30k in Vet Trials to be even considered decent and be able to fill in for a HM core group, let alone the 40+k required to be even considered for lower end cores.

There needs to be a form of progression to exist in Trials. Craglorn trials have already been changed once to appease you, "it's too easy" people, they don't need to be changed again.

They changed the way trials mechanics work to keep you all busy and reduce your parses in VAS and VCR which make them a ripe pain in the arse to learn and are more tedious than they are enjoyable.

Newer trials should be a little more difficult than the previous ones, but if they want to make the trials more difficult, they also need to add a new armor cap so other players can compensate.

You want trials to be a little more difficult.. stop chasing the Meta!!! Learn to enjoy things for what they are as they are, because if you can't be happy with what you have, nothing they do to this game is EVER going to make you happy, or the game enjoyable over the long term.

Literally everything in this game other than trials is for the other 99%, so don't pretend like everything gets changed for us.

Nebthet78 · July 2018

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

How about NO!!!

Enough is Enough to making changes to this game to serve the 1% of players who find it too easy. I'm sick and tired of being nerfed back again and again because of changes made because top end trials guilds like Hodor and Mechanically Challenge wiz through Trials and skip mechanics.

There are other people in this game that enjoy trials, or want to, but get shut out of doing them because of changes made that utterly blocks the person's progression or worse yet, completely reduces it and takes them back two years.

You want to complain that these are too damn easy, why don't you go down and play with a bunch of lower grade players that most of you elite people refuse to play with because they don't meet "your" standards. Then see just how easy it is for the general population.

I've seen enough of the trials community to know that most of those people that are whining that things are too easy are those players who shun anyone beneath their standards and end up creating dedicated secret channels in discord and other apps that keep the lower tiered members out of any communication with them, because they don't want to play with them. And once that *** starts, all those elitist players end up leaving the guild to go create their own guild, then some drama BS starts up 6 months or so down the road in there, over peoples massive egos and the whole cycle starts all over again.

Don't complain about the game being too easy, for you or other elitists, as you likely don't play with the general populace of the game on a regular basis.

Most players in this game can't parse at over 30k in Vet Trials to be even considered decent and be able to fill in for a HM core group, let alone the 40+k required to be even considered for lower end cores.

There needs to be a form of progression to exist in Trials. Craglorn trials have already been changed once to appease you, "it's too easy" people, they don't need to be changed again.

They changed the way trials mechanics work to keep you all busy and reduce your parses in VAS and VCR which make them a ripe pain in the arse to learn and are more tedious than they are enjoyable.

Newer trials should be a little more difficult than the previous ones, but if they want to make the trials more difficult, they also need to add a new armor cap so other players can compensate.

You want trials to be a little more difficult.. stop chasing the Meta!!! Learn to enjoy things for what they are as they are, because if you can't be happy with what you have, nothing they do to this game is EVER going to make you happy, or the game enjoyable over the long term.

Literally everything in this game other than trials is for the other 99%, so don't pretend like everything gets changed for us.

Didn't say the did it FOR you... they made the changes BECAUSE of elitist players like you that just run through content as quickly as possible, and a lot of us are tired of it happening.

Lyss1991 · July 2018

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

How about NO!!!

Enough is Enough to making changes to this game to serve the 1% of players who find it too easy. I'm sick and tired of being nerfed back again and again because of changes made because top end trials guilds like Hodor and Mechanically Challenge wiz through Trials and skip mechanics.

There are other people in this game that enjoy trials, or want to, but get shut out of doing them because of changes made that utterly blocks the person's progression or worse yet, completely reduces it and takes them back two years.

You want to complain that these are too damn easy, why don't you go down and play with a bunch of lower grade players that most of you elite people refuse to play with because they don't meet "your" standards. Then see just how easy it is for the general population.

I've seen enough of the trials community to know that most of those people that are whining that things are too easy are those players who shun anyone beneath their standards and end up creating dedicated secret channels in discord and other apps that keep the lower tiered members out of any communication with them, because they don't want to play with them. And once that *** starts, all those elitist players end up leaving the guild to go create their own guild, then some drama BS starts up 6 months or so down the road in there, over peoples massive egos and the whole cycle starts all over again.

Don't complain about the game being too easy, for you or other elitists, as you likely don't play with the general populace of the game on a regular basis.

Most players in this game can't parse at over 30k in Vet Trials to be even considered decent and be able to fill in for a HM core group, let alone the 40+k required to be even considered for lower end cores.

There needs to be a form of progression to exist in Trials. Craglorn trials have already been changed once to appease you, "it's too easy" people, they don't need to be changed again.

They changed the way trials mechanics work to keep you all busy and reduce your parses in VAS and VCR which make them a ripe pain in the arse to learn and are more tedious than they are enjoyable.

Newer trials should be a little more difficult than the previous ones, but if they want to make the trials more difficult, they also need to add a new armor cap so other players can compensate.

You want trials to be a little more difficult.. stop chasing the Meta!!! Learn to enjoy things for what they are as they are, because if you can't be happy with what you have, nothing they do to this game is EVER going to make you happy, or the game enjoyable over the long term.

Literally everything in this game other than trials is for the other 99%, so don't pretend like everything gets changed for us.

Didn't say the did it FOR you... they made the changes BECAUSE of elitist players like you that just run through content as quickly as possible, and a lot of us are tired of it happening.

^^ THANK YOU. I like to enjoy my game, hear the stories, learn the mechanics, and have fun. Between PVP nerfs and changes to PVE end game content, Its hard to keep up! By the time you get used to your current build, Its time to change it again! S L O W D O W N and enjoy the game!

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

ZOS should just nerf the overperforming classes, like magicka NB. If they lowered every class to the level of magicka warden and magicka templar, content would get a lot harder.

When all the top groups are just stacking magblades and their 50k+ DPS, no *** the content becomes trivial.

AuldWolf · July 2018

There are some ludicrous comments, here, admittedly. I am, however, impressed to see a continuing thread of reason that's resonating throughout. There are voices of sense, here. Even those who understand why, in practise, difficulty creep is a billion times worse than power creep.

After all, you could try resetting CP points, using no gear sets, using white gear, even trying it without gear or weapons at all! Then upload it to YouTube or Twitch to show everyone your mastery of the game. The thing is though is that if one tiny demographic pushes for a chunk of the game to be unplayable to an increasingly large number of people, that hurts ZOS financially. There were some particularly entitled voices that had haughty demands of the entire game being retooled to be more like vet difficulty. Screw the casuals! Right? Well... The casuals are where 99 per cent of the money comes from. So let's please not screw the casuals.

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns proved that, remember? They made their expansion grindy, hardcore, and super difficult. It almost sunk ArenaNet. Their cash shop purchases completely dried up. Why? A lot of hardcore players don't tend to buy things. Especially the more elitist ones. Why? Well, it's this perverse delusion that a video game meant as entertainment is actually 'work' somehow, you see, and they deserve to be compensated for their 'work.' To most people, this sounds ludicrous bordering on insane... But unfortunately there are unfathomably detached voices like that. And those voices are selfish. Very selfish.

They'd see the game sink before ZOS makes money.

Honestly, I'd love to see casual/delve versions of trials up on the Crown Store. I'd buy them. I buy things! I'd actually buy them individually, even. So it'd be the same content but with difficulty balanced in a more casual way, and it's either group-instanced and scales to the number entering, or it works like a delve. I'd buy that. I wouldn't demand they make that, mind you. I'm not entitled. I'm just saying I'd buy it. And I think it'd reveal just how many people don't even like trials to begin with.

So talk of adding a new difficulty tier above the existing one serves, what, 0.5 per cent-ish of the community? If that? Basically, the most hardcore of the hardcore. Would they buy those difficulty levels? We could run a poll, but I strongly suspect I already know what the results to such a poll would be.

ZOS has things balanced right now to provide for the demographics playing the game. And frankly, as I've pointed out before (and as even some hardcore players are bound to realise), the amount of hardcore content they provide is incredibly generous versus the actual number of people paying for that content. If I were a hardcore player, I'd be happy that I'm actually being overserved considering my demographic.

And it's not like I don't know what it's like to be in a tiny demographic. I like video games featuring six-limbed dragons, I go nuts for them whenever they turn up. How often do you think that happens? I mean, look at Scalebound.

The thing is? I understand that I'm a part of a tiny demographic, in that respect.

I think that some hardcore players are actually beginning to realise this, too. This is the chord of reason I mention resonating throughout this thread. There are more reasonable voices, here, and I'm actually impressed. What I see is that if entitled demands continue being made, ZOS may just get tired of it and actually do enough research to realise that these very loud, obnoxious, entitled voices just aren't worth catering to because there's no money in it. And those trial DLCs? They might turn into delves. That would make a lot of people happy. Thing is, though? I -- and no casual -- wishes to stop anyone from having content, you just have to understand what the size of your demographic is and stop being so entitled.

And if you want to improve your standing? Put your money where your mouth is. It's like the furry community. People cater to the furry fandom loads. Why? Money. The furry fandom has loads of money. We have CEOs and PhDs out the wazoo in the furry community, along with people in well-paying IT/science jobs. And what people have noticed is that the furry fandom is very generous despite being very small. We tend to over pay because we understand that our demographic is smaller.

If all you do is demand things for free, though, whilst being a tiny demographic? A company is going to get tired of that. You're going to earn an important someone's ire and they'll simply stop catering to you altogether. This is capitalism, and with the casual money they have they could easily afford to drop their entire hardcore demographic without a second thought.

So maybe stop? This is self-destructive to you. I'm kind of asking myself why I'm even here and saying this, I guess it's empathy. There's just such a lack of self-awareness with hardcore players, and a lack of grasping even the basics of economics as well. I know you might want to make it all harder wherever you can (which is rather Freudian in a predictably masculine way, but I digress), but you just don't have the numbers to support that.

So appreciate what you have.

Shad0wfire99 · July 2018

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

How about NO!!!

Enough is Enough to making changes to this game to serve the 1% of players who find it too easy. I'm sick and tired of being nerfed back again and again because of changes made because top end trials guilds like Hodor and Mechanically Challenge wiz through Trials and skip mechanics.

There are other people in this game that enjoy trials, or want to, but get shut out of doing them because of changes made that utterly blocks the person's progression or worse yet, completely reduces it and takes them back two years.

You want to complain that these are too damn easy, why don't you go down and play with a bunch of lower grade players that most of you elite people refuse to play with because they don't meet "your" standards. Then see just how easy it is for the general population.

I've seen enough of the trials community to know that most of those people that are whining that things are too easy are those players who shun anyone beneath their standards and end up creating dedicated secret channels in discord and other apps that keep the lower tiered members out of any communication with them, because they don't want to play with them. And once that *** starts, all those elitist players end up leaving the guild to go create their own guild, then some drama BS starts up 6 months or so down the road in there, over peoples massive egos and the whole cycle starts all over again.

Don't complain about the game being too easy, for you or other elitists, as you likely don't play with the general populace of the game on a regular basis.

Most players in this game can't parse at over 30k in Vet Trials to be even considered decent and be able to fill in for a HM core group, let alone the 40+k required to be even considered for lower end cores.

There needs to be a form of progression to exist in Trials. Craglorn trials have already been changed once to appease you, "it's too easy" people, they don't need to be changed again.

They changed the way trials mechanics work to keep you all busy and reduce your parses in VAS and VCR which make them a ripe pain in the arse to learn and are more tedious than they are enjoyable.

Newer trials should be a little more difficult than the previous ones, but if they want to make the trials more difficult, they also need to add a new armor cap so other players can compensate.

You want trials to be a little more difficult.. stop chasing the Meta!!! Learn to enjoy things for what they are as they are, because if you can't be happy with what you have, nothing they do to this game is EVER going to make you happy, or the game enjoyable over the long term.

Literally everything in this game other than trials is for the other 99%, so don't pretend like everything gets changed for us.

Didn't say the did it FOR you... they made the changes BECAUSE of elitist players like you that just run through content as quickly as possible, and a lot of us are tired of it happening.

I see your point. I'm tired of basketball goals being 10ft. Those elitiist players that can dunk on a 10ft goal are ruining it for those of us that can only dunk on an 8ft goal.

SugaComa · July 2018

MaddPowered wrote: »

Power Creep is a process that sometimes occurs in games where new content slowly outstrip the power of previous alternatives.

With the past few patches, The over all DPS has increased significantly, resulting in the ease of burning through all mechanics that make trials fun.
People are doing pad 5 burns on rakkhat in hard mode. 1 prayer phase twins. 1 add phase varlariel. 7 minute vAS +2 clears. The list goes on and on.

Now I am not complaining about DPS being too high, don't get me wrong. I want DPS to stay exactly where it is. But i think it is time for another buff to all trials. (Much like they did back in Dark Brotherhood and Shadows of the Hist, vr12 > vr16)

It has gotten to the point where every trial in the game now (With the exception of vCR HM) has become too easy. vMoL for example, It used to be the hardest trial in the game but now has gotten to the point where it is one of the easiest. vHoF and vAS HM are on their way to that status too.

I think that it has gotten to the point where there needs to be a revamp to all the current raids in the game. Increase the overall HP of everything, Scale up the damage and maybe add in new mechanics to all fights and add in new loot / sets we can earn from completing the raids. Because as of right now, Vet trials as a whole are not rewarding at all.

Now i get that not all people in this game who raid will agree with me. Some will disagree with me 100%. But i feel like the majority of end game raiders will agree.

Lets hear your thoughts in the comments of this post.

Why not just make a non CP version

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

Ragebull wrote: »

They need to be more fun, not hard, but that's just me

T H I S

D I F F I C U L T Y D O E S N O T E Q U A L L Q U A L I T Y. IT'S TIME TO ACCEPT THAT. MAKE THINGS MORE FUN, NOT MORE DIFFICULT.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ZOS should just nerf the overperforming classes, like magicka NB. If they lowered every class to the level of magicka warden and magicka templar, content would get a lot harder.

When all the top groups are just stacking magblades and their 50k+ DPS, no *** the content becomes trivial.

And then everyone would leave.

Because nobody likes arbitrarily losing ability. Especially when the problem could likely just as easily be solved by tacking on another difficulty option something people like you have vehemently shot down in the past.

Why do you want the game to die? Why do you allways look to the players to pick up the slack and not the design? If people are just stacking 50K magblades that's a failing of the content and the system and both need overhauled anyway.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · July 2018

i also forgot to put just do the trails as they are ment to be done, Ie: at the mo, groups are bugging helra the right hand waits till the left hand side is done then leeroy to get killed then just runs down left side on vet mode

Vercingetorix · July 2018

If you are looking for a challenge, simply pug a trial. I assure you that you will get plenty of difficulty, rage, and hair loss. There is no need for a difficulty increase when an existing option is already available.

colossalvoids · July 2018

Sure it's an issue for cp1000+ players with all the hm's done already, but what other 90% of population should do with such a changes? This game may need d3 system like rifts. It can increase the difficulty (like hm+3-first lvl and so on into infinity)and will be on the new leaderboards. So all this folk that needs more challenge and competition will be satisfied for a while.

Breedj01 · July 2018

Pc addons make the trials easy for players on pc. God forbid they ever do trials where they aren't told exactly what to press at every point. Consoles don't have addons and doesn't have the problem of things being too easy.
Perhaps it's the addons that break the game and sets such as clever alchemist (pre combat proc removed on all platforms because of pc addons) that should be removed rather than the game difficulty increased to placate pc players.

Gythral · July 2018

Breedj01 wrote: »

Pc addons make the trials easy for players on pc. God forbid they ever do trials where they aren't told exactly what to press at every point. Consoles don't have addons and doesn't have the problem of things being too easy.
Perhaps it's the addons that break the game and sets such as clever alchemist (pre combat proc removed on all platforms because of pc addons) that should be removed rather than the game difficulty increased to placate a very tiny number of pc players.

corrected

Kalik_Gold · July 2018

How about leave it as is. Then create new content for people at that level, instead.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2018

Things should lean towards mechanics based and less towards DPS checks. Not saying flawless rotations are not skilled, by any means, but there are far too many aspects that allow one to override the other. *(And by mechanics, I don't mean wave upon wave of *** filler adds.)

End game, or day 0 beginner, I doubt anyone here can argue with a straight face that there should be a discrepancy of 2x to 3x the DPS from a decently geared player with a reasonable setup to a BiS, Legendary, Min/Max, perfect race, perfect setup, perfect CP, perfect skill choice player.

Should their be a difference? Absolutely.

Should the difference between the 'floor' and the 'ceiling' be as vast as it? I doubt it.

There needs to be a middle ground. Mechanics should be there to be completed, not bypassed, at least not in full. And this constant cycle of dialing things up a bit to address power creep, while dialing things up slightly for the floor (and consequently for the ceiling) to make it within reach doesn't work either.

There needs to be a method by which people can legitimately strive towards the top tier and get as close as their own personal player ability will allow. Watching build videos and hours in front of target dummy are not accomplishing that in most cases. Something is missing, and it should be up to ZoS to figure out how to provide that missing piece.

It leads to where we are now, which is no good for either side.

I'm not necessarily big on forced mechanics and RNG, but I'm also not keen on bypassing them either.

Third tier is what is required, requiring some pretty healthy prerequisites to get access to a door most will never open. In the process of this, it needs to be for title and glory only. No special gear, no bonus drops. No further distancing from the 99% than there already is. (Can even have its own leaderboard)

If you get this, you get it for the challenge, as requested. Nothing more, nothing less.

Dextail · July 2018

As a elitist scum my self.

I understand the casual peasents complaints.

I would agrue that a 3rd tire that offers literally no benefit outside of a larger score would be welcomed.
Allows hard core elitist to complete with e-*** comparisons without any meaningful change to casuals.

Causals don’t care about score so it wouldn’t matter. There would be no difference to them. No gear locked out, no loot missed out on, no bonus skins. Etc just score nothing more and maybe like 5k more plunder as it would be significantly harder than HM. This could just be more health, more damage, different adds. Etc

My proposal isn’t a change to hardmodes but a completely different instance that is just a trial on roids just for e-*** comparisons

tmbrinks · July 2018

Yes, there is power creep. Yes, the "end game" content is getting easier and easier to complete. Yet, the end-game raiding community keeps getting smaller and smaller? This is exactly why. So many of us (and I say us, because I am a part of the group, at least I think so), close ourselves off and no longer help other people to get the experience they need.

I have no problems with there being high requirements to be a part of these "elite" groups, that are pushing the pad 5 vMoL HM (which was being done before this huge dps increase), the creep has just made it easier to be there. However, the raiding community here will die if we make these be requirements for anybody to run with groups. With the current dps levels, there is no reason why a competent raid lead, with players who want to learn mechanics and are comfortable with their class/role, can't clear vMoL/vHoF/vAS +1, and vCR +1, but many of these players are never getting the chance to even get in these groups because they are shut out of them by most.

If they do manage to get in a run with some of these "elitists", I've seen people cussed out in raids because they missed a single transition on the twins, rather than being explained the mechanics, I've had "elitists" just leave group in the middle of the raid because they ran into trouble with the group and they were "too good" to be there. If we don't actually teach people how to raid, what the mechanics are, there will be nobody to replace people when they inevitably leave the game.

So many people in the end-game will just team up with people to for "super-groups" so that they can push content, filled with people they have hand picked, and wall themselves off from the community. When those groups inevitably regress back towards the mean, many of the elitists will leave, taking a few of the others with them, and form a new-super group. Leaving the people who were there holding the bag, making them reset in their progression as they now have to find new members, who may or may not be able to do the same levels of dps/heals/tanking, thus making the progression get more difficult.

As many others have said, I would be okay with a 3rd tier of difficulty, especially for the craglorn trials, they are all painfully easy once you are to the end game, blasting through the mechanics. Hell, I did bottom group in hel-ra yesterday without a tank, that's how easy they've become. But there should be absolutely no in-game reward for them, other than maybe achievement points, no titles, no special mounts, no skins, no extra jewelry. Do it for the sake of doing it, rather than a title to show off even more. (And yes, I like skins and titles, they are a nice way to show off what you've accomplished in the game, kudos to those that have them, I've also seen groups that have people show them their "Voice of Reason" title BEFORE they let them come on a vAS +2 run... doesn't make much sense to me)

Also, as others have said. If you want a challenge, change it up yourself. Don't wear the best gear, take away some CP. Hell, go pug some runs. Form a new core team made up of only people that have never cleared a vet trial (other than yourself) and god forbid you teach them how to actually do trials. Or, stay in your bubble, with the other 400 like-minded people in the game (and yes, that's probably close to the number of people who are in the "elite" end-game raiding community, out of the couple hundred thousand people who play the game regularly on PC), and watch it slowly die.

Exeter411 · July 2018

Rather than nerf yourself to make content more challenging, how about a trial that would demand adaptability. A trial akin to the old starter dungeon, where the trial group has their inventory placed in limbo on entry, so they essentially enter naked, and in the first room has a storehouse of randomly generated gear, enough gear to fully outfit 12 players in their respective roles. So every time you ran the trial, you would not know what you had to work with.

Would that provide a sufficient challenge for both top tier and the rest of us?

idk · July 2018

MaddPowered wrote: »

After reviewing the comments and seeing all the hate thrown towards me and my opinion I have realized that maybe the best course of action would be to add in a third difficulty, A difficulty above hard mode, Like a legendary difficulty. I apologize If i came across as an elitist. As i previously stated, I do not think that My own perception should be the only perception. When I made the post, I did not even consider the idea of a third difficulty, rather just a flat increase.

@MaddPowered

Considering you chose seem to have chosen to ignore both Codes and Nifty's posts that explain the situation clearly, and certainly with no hate, it seems you prefer to ignore the situation. They did write well thought out posts.

If I am wrong and you merely missed their posts I suggest you go back and read them. I would suggest it because it will explain clearly why your OP is incorrect and why this second suggestion will not happen.

Early on I would have suggested Zos made the entire dungeon HM instead of just the last boss but considering the lazy design of vHoF and especially vAS/vCR I think we are past that being done well.

MaddPowered · July 2018

This will be my last post on the forums. I have gone back and re read comments and have realized that what i posted was absolutely ridiculous and nothing needs to be changed. For those of you who figured out my @name in game, I ask that you stop sending me hate tells in game thank you very much. I appreciate all of the thoughts and time people put into this post,

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ZOS should just nerf the overperforming classes, like magicka NB. If they lowered every class to the level of magicka warden and magicka templar, content would get a lot harder.

When all the top groups are just stacking magblades and their 50k+ DPS, no *** the content becomes trivial.

And then everyone would leave.

Because nobody likes arbitrarily losing ability. Especially when the problem could likely just as easily be solved by tacking on another difficulty option something people like you have vehemently shot down in the past.

Why do you want the game to die? Why do you allways look to the players to pick up the slack and not the design? If people are just stacking 50K magblades that's a failing of the content and the system and both need overhauled anyway.

That's a failing of the balance team. Magblades are grossly overperforming.