Please Increase the difficulty of Veteran Trials.

Froil

Not everyone's top tier bro. These scheißes can still be hard to a lot of folk.

Slightly related note, I'd stroke his e-peen

Shad0wfire99

Chrysa1is wrote: »

No. No one likes elitists

I'll take "elitists" over spending 3 hrs wiping at the Twins any day of the week.

Nebthet78

How about NO!!!

Enough is Enough to making changes to this game to serve the 1% of players who find it too easy. I'm sick and tired of being nerfed back again and again because of changes made because top end trials guilds like Hodor and Mechanically Challenge wiz through Trials and skip mechanics.

There are other people in this game that enjoy trials, or want to, but get shut out of doing them because of changes made that utterly blocks the person's progression or worse yet, completely reduces it and takes them back two years.

You want to complain that these are too damn easy, why don't you go down and play with a bunch of lower grade players that most of you elite people refuse to play with because they don't meet "your" standards. Then see just how easy it is for the general population.

I've seen enough of the trials community to know that most of those people that are whining that things are too easy are those players who shun anyone beneath their standards and end up creating dedicated secret channels in discord and other apps that keep the lower tiered members out of any communication with them, because they don't want to play with them. And once that *** starts, all those elitist players end up leaving the guild to go create their own guild, then some drama BS starts up 6 months or so down the road in there, over peoples massive egos and the whole cycle starts all over again.

Don't complain about the game being too easy, for you or other elitists, as you likely don't play with the general populace of the game on a regular basis.

Most players in this game can't parse at over 30k in Vet Trials to be even considered decent and be able to fill in for a HM core group, let alone the 40+k required to be even considered for lower end cores.

There needs to be a form of progression to exist in Trials. Craglorn trials have already been changed once to appease you, "it's too easy" people, they don't need to be changed again.

They changed the way trials mechanics work to keep you all busy and reduce your parses in VAS and VCR which make them a ripe pain in the arse to learn and are more tedious than they are enjoyable.

Newer trials should be a little more difficult than the previous ones, but if they want to make the trials more difficult, they also need to add a new armor cap so other players can compensate.

You want trials to be a little more difficult.. stop chasing the Meta!!! Learn to enjoy things for what they are as they are, because if you can't be happy with what you have, nothing they do to this game is EVER going to make you happy, or the game enjoyable over the long term.

MrGarlic

I'm going to say no, because I don't believe the top 1% should be setting the benchmark for the remaining 99%. A benchmark that for most, will be inaccessible.

'Most' people already find veteran content too hard for them so making it harder will push more people away from ever wanting to try it.

Adding an elite level difficulty on top of what we already have is fine, but don't change the difficulty as it currently is.

IMHO

Nifty2g

The groups who are getting stuff like

People are doing pad 5 burns on rakkhat in hard mode. 1 prayer phase twins. 1 add phase varlariel. 7 minute vAS +2 clears. The list goes on and on.

are just the top tier groups, who build and spend time around doing stuff like that, there is not more than say 50 people in the entire game who experience stuff like this.

If you start balancing the game around those 50 people, the vast majority of the rest are going to have a tough time.

I don't see it as an issue, those players love pushing limits, I mean it's really fun so why. It keeps people interested, when you take that away some of those players get very annoyed. i.e Morrowind.

It's fine how it is honestly.

Kuwhar

Do you have minimum requirements for people to go on these raids with you?

Do you think that has an effect on the perceived/actual difficulty of said raids?

Also i like the tidbit thrown in towards the end about better rewards... do you want challenge or rewards?

Kelces

One word - > Redistribute

Problem solved...

ResTandRespeC

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Top end game trial people make up a smaller fraction of players then any part of the game. Trials should be able to be completed by players not in BiS gear and working to the higher lvls.

Just bc you run with people that all have insane dps does not mean everyone else does. These trials are just fine the way they are and offer a challenge to players that dont run them 24/7.

I am a raider on PS4 NA. Not necessarily top tier, but towards higher end (for my platform). If OP is a PC player I can totally understand where they're coming from. The raiding scene on PC is in a much more robust place than on console and with add-ons and higher frame rate the content is much easier to clear and are much more new player friendly, as learning all the mechanics on console (for an entire team) is much harder when they don't have things to tell them when mechanics are going to happen (as well as lagm horrible glitches/graphical errors, and less dps because of frame rate issues). On ps4 NA right now I believe there are a total of 6 main-teams on the leader-boards for vCR and I don't believe there has been anymore then maybe one +2 complete, and 0 hardmodes. There is probably a total of 5 or 6 teams who have recent completes for vMol HM and vHof HM. So for us it just doesn;t make sense to push the ceiling higher on content most raiding guilds still can't complete. What I do like the idea of is for content being put out to be getting progressively harder. If every year the steps go higher, while dps continues to increase, It'll hopefully leave room for a clear path of progression for people looking to get into trials. I similarly don't like the idea of adding a new difficulty. Really whats the point? content gets easier as we progress, new level of difficulty comes out, content gets easier as dps raises, add another difficulty tier, eventually we'll be left with a ton of meaningless content. All that really matters is the bottom end (normal) for people who are just starting need to get imperfect gear etc, and top end (vet) where the best gear drops. What we have now is already like adding a new difficulty. We get new harder trials every few months with new and better gear that progressively out-dates everything else.

NickStern

The OP would be the first to cry in forums when suddenly he could not clear/speedrun a trial.

MaddPowered

After reviewing the comments and seeing all the hate thrown towards me and my opinion I have realized that maybe the best course of action would be to add in a third difficulty, A difficulty above hard mode, Like a legendary difficulty. I apologize If i came across as an elitist. As i previously stated, I do not think that My own perception should be the only perception. When I made the post, I did not even consider the idea of a third difficulty, rather just a flat increase.

Kuwhar

MaddPowered wrote: »

After reviewing the comments and seeing all the hate thrown towards me and my opinion I have realized that maybe the best course of action would be to add in a third difficulty, A difficulty above hard mode, Like a legendary difficulty. I apologize If i came across as an elitist. As i previously stated, I do not think that My own perception should be the only perception. When I made the post, I did not even consider the idea of a third difficulty, rather just a flat increase.

But i ask again, do you have minimum requirements for people to participate?

Doesnt that make it easier by default when you select only top tier players?

Woeler

Yay for no vet raids for newcomers to the table!

/s

Banana

No

Lyss1991

NONONONONO.

PS4 NA - Im a part of a smaller guild (less than 200 members) that have had a core group of members that have been playing together for a little over a year. We have JUST started being able to put a little trial progression team together in the few months before Summerset dropped. We have been working at this for months getting our members geared, Helping people with rotations, DPS testing etc. We JUST finished vSO 2 weeks ago. Not hardmode, just regular vet. We have worked hard as a group to get to where we are, And I dont think its fair to people like us who enjoy this game and dont want to ask people for insanely ridiculous DPS parses to be able to play with us. Sure there is a bottom number that must be met, And for vet and hardmode stuff you should be able to surpass that bottom number by a certain amount..But some trial guilds ask for top tier numbers or they wont even let you join. Thats not how it should be. People should be willing to help build each other up and help each other reach their maximum potential without being a butthole about it and belittling people who cant pull 50k DPS. The core of this games community cannot reach those stats. Its not fair to the general population to raise difficulty levels because the elitists think its too easy.

Lyss1991

And I have to agree with a comment above - Us console players dont have the add ons that help us with mechanics and tell us when to dodge or block..We just have to keep at it and figure it out on our own. Its not the PC players fault, Sure..But console players shoudnt be punished because of it either.

Facefister

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Mmmm maybe not change Vet,

Adding another tier on top, like Legendary mode would be cool tho, also to dungeons.

This. And dungeons have chance for golden jewelry ofcourse.

Gythral

Facefister wrote: »

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Mmmm maybe not change Vet,

Adding another tier on top, like Legendary mode would be cool tho, also to dungeons.

This. And dungeons have chance for golden jewelry ofcourse.

No, as this loot creep is the cause of the issue in the first place, adding a new tier or 2 is a good idea, but any additional rewards need to be non-combat related so as to not add to the power creep

Facefister

Gythral wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Mmmm maybe not change Vet,

Adding another tier on top, like Legendary mode would be cool tho, also to dungeons.

This. And dungeons have chance for golden jewelry ofcourse.

No, as this loot creep is the cause of the issue in the first place, adding a new tier or 2 is a good idea, but any additional rewards need to be non-combat related so as to not add to the power creep

How is 0,1% more crit per jewelry a power creep? But putting golden stuff into a vendor like a cheap korean MMO is a better solution right? Harder difficulty should reward with proper stuff. Besides, it would motiviate people to do more dungeons than doing 20 vetAA/HRC runs per day.

kylewwefan

When you’re way up high in your white gold tower looking down at all the peasants....

Do you even pug bro?

No. Just fine where it is. Maybe it need be toned down a bit. VMOL is easy now!? WTH!? You must be on a different Plane of nirn.

Ya gotta get out there and play with other people. Like it or not, this game is casual. That means it needs to be pick up group friendly. Even normal MoL or HoF are very difficult with pugs. (Many, many, many can’t do it.)

Oh yeah. Then there’s the whole poopoo performance issue in trials. Sure, it may be exciting your first go through, but after you do it a hundred times and see it for what it is, not so much.

Take Sanctum Ophidia for example. Should be the most pug friendly trial there is due to not having to need a full group.

Game performance in there is complete trash. It’s like watching a slide show. That gets any better on Vet? Most pugs here won’t get past the first boss.

Have you any idea how many times I’ve been in VDSA and the group can’t get past the second boss?

What about Maelstrom arena? How many people casually walk in there to stick it to ol Solkyn?

LadyNalcarya

Nope. Endgame pve community is already quite small. If anything, it would be nice to have an actual difficulty progression to make pve endgame more accessible for new groups. That doesnt mean nerfing content or anything like that, of course, but I think it would be great to have more "middle tier" content, not just super easy normals and vets that are too hard for average player.
Balancing the game around a few top guilds would be ridiculous and its not even a sustainable business model - those players wont play forever, and the community cant exist without fresh blood.

However, I do agree that top dps is insane these days. I hope it wont lead to morrowind nerfs v2.0.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

MaddPowered wrote: »

Power Creep is a process that sometimes occurs in games where new content slowly outstrip the power of previous alternatives.

With the past few patches, The over all DPS has increased significantly, resulting in the ease of burning through all mechanics that make trials fun.
People are doing pad 5 burns on rakkhat in hard mode. 1 prayer phase twins. 1 add phase varlariel. 7 minute vAS +2 clears. The list goes on and on.

Now I am not complaining about DPS being too high, don't get me wrong. I want DPS to stay exactly where it is. But i think it is time for another buff to all trials. (Much like they did back in Dark Brotherhood and Shadows of the Hist, vr12 > vr16)

It has gotten to the point where every trial in the game now (With the exception of vCR HM) has become too easy. vMoL for example, It used to be the hardest trial in the game but now has gotten to the point where it is one of the easiest. vHoF and vAS HM are on their way to that status too.

I think that it has gotten to the point where there needs to be a revamp to all the current raids in the game. Increase the overall HP of everything, Scale up the damage and maybe add in new mechanics to all fights and add in new loot / sets we can earn from completing the raids. Because as of right now, Vet trials as a whole are not rewarding at all.

Now i get that not all people in this game who raid will agree with me. Some will disagree with me 100%. But i feel like the majority of end game raiders will agree.

Lets hear your thoughts in the comments of this post.

You do release over 50% of players cant do vet trails even with the buff to dps

nalimoleb14_ESO

I haven’t even been able to find a Vet HoF group since its release, most non-Vanilla Vet trial runs are still exclusive to top elite guildies only, and you want to buff the difficulty of Vet trials even more? Nah brah. Judging by the comments here I’d say the majority of the community would disagree with you.

f047ys3v3n

If you are having trouble with hard mode trials and dungeons being too easy I would suggest turning off the cheat engine and trying them. While I realize that ZOS has done really everything in it's power shy of posting tutorials on CE use to encourage it, and it is certainly the meta to use it, most players still don't actually do so. The hard modes of much of the content are frankly very hard with no cheat engine. You do not, for instance, get to skip all of the intermediate SC mechanics or get to straight burn in VDSA. I am actually not convinced that some of the hard modes are even possible non-CE.

This post does highlight a big issue in the game though. That ZOS is trying to scale content for both CE users (with whom I think ZOS is in denial about use) and non-users an it isn't going so well especially since the Morrowind resource nerfs. Users are now well over 2x non-users dps and none of their re-balancing of heavy / light attacks has done much to change this. ZOS just looks like this confused puppy who can't figure out why each change intended to lower dps, lower the ceiling, and raise the floor seems has the opposite effect. The reason is simply that the changes only effect those in the non-CE tier who cannot raise their stats at will to compensate.

So, to you, OP. I do not blame you for using CE. You have to do so to be competitive the way ZOS has set things up. It is very rude to ask for content to be scaled to where it will be challenging for you though since those not on the juice can no longer get completes on much of it without having CE users in their group.

mareeelb16_ESO

Nope.... bad idea imo

Here's a solution for you all who want more challenging content... Get creative and work out new super duper challenging stuff for yourselves. For example, run the trial naked with a level 1 weapon

I constantly despair at the contradiction of the most elite players getting ever more potent sets and then complaining that either a) stuff is too easy or b) people without said sets are not welcome in groups. The gap gets wider and wider lol. Actually a good solution would be to use a 'handicap' system the way rl games sometimes do... the completion of challenging content would give you a 'handicap' aka nerf so that you could keep being challenged.

As usual people will cry that there woudn't be any incentive without receiving the special sets as rewards.. but maybe you could be satisfied to wear your handicap as a badge of honour?!

Arkangeloski

Nope, Mr elite master overlord want challenge? Shave 90pts of your cp then try again or play another game if the content is too easy for you. obviously it's not the case for some elite that got the ban hammer for cheesing a skin(hundreds of them), Obviously was to hard to complete legit... lol. so no Mr sno flake

Kalgert

I don't understand where people are coming up with this "Power Creep" idea. If that really were the case, I'd be doing more than 13-15k DPS tops on my Magicka DK, with yellow staves, DoT up the whazoo (Even implementing a trick when as soon as I press to cast off an ability, I swap my staff to the other bar to better or worse extent) and also mix a light attack in between the casting and whatnot. It's almost like we're playing completely different games.

Oh, and don't tell me that the people who do 30k and beyond DPS single-target easily are doing something absolutely more complex that allows them to achieve these heights. I watched one DPS doing their thing, and what I saw was them literary spamming one single ability over and over again, maybe two other abilities as well, and they managed to deal a ton of damage. Tell me, how does that make any sense? When someone who's really trying their darnest deals less DPS than some guy who's for a lack of a better word "Half-arsing" their deal.

MakeMeUhSamich

No.

starkerealm

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

If you are having trouble with hard mode trials and dungeons being too easy I would suggest turning off the cheat engine and trying them.

*Chuckles*

*Realizes that f047 is serious.*

Riiiiight. No, I've been in the room when people were clearing some of the vet hardmodes you're calling impossible. To say nothing of the people clearing all content on the PS4 and XB1.

It was a problem in PvP ages ago. Still is in some quarters. But the idea that everyone is using it? No. Someone who can pull substantially more DPS than you is not, automatically, cheating.

Asmael

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

If you are having trouble with hard mode trials and dungeons being too easy I would suggest turning off the cheat engine and trying them. While I realize that ZOS has done really everything in it's power shy of posting tutorials on CE use to encourage it, and it is certainly the meta to use it, most players still don't actually do so. The hard modes of much of the content are frankly very hard with no cheat engine. You do not, for instance, get to skip all of the intermediate SC mechanics or get to straight burn in VDSA. I am actually not convinced that some of the hard modes are even possible non-CE.

This post does highlight a big issue in the game though. That ZOS is trying to scale content for both CE users (with whom I think ZOS is in denial about use) and non-users an it isn't going so well especially since the Morrowind resource nerfs. Users are now well over 2x non-users dps and none of their re-balancing of heavy / light attacks has done much to change this. ZOS just looks like this confused puppy who can't figure out why each change intended to lower dps, lower the ceiling, and raise the floor seems has the opposite effect. The reason is simply that the changes only effect those in the non-CE tier who cannot raise their stats at will to compensate.

So, to you, OP. I do not blame you for using CE. You have to do so to be competitive the way ZOS has set things up. It is very rude to ask for content to be scaled to where it will be challenging for you though since those not on the juice can no longer get completes on much of it without having CE users in their group.

Darn console players are also using CE, clearing vet trials HM and getting those easy clears!

Only way they can outparse my hybrid healthden spamming light attacks! Cheaters everywhere!

---

'nyway, wouldn't mind an extra tier of difficulty with a few extra mechanics for the old trials, instead of just more HP / dmg.

adeptusminor

I've always thought it would be sort of neat if they had version 2 of trials, like they do with some dungeons. Increase the difficulty in general in the 2 versions, like vAA 2 etc etc. Seems like it would be easier for the devs because they wouldn't have to completely create new content from scratch, and it would provide extra challenge for those that find the base trials a bit too easy.