Please Increase the difficulty of Veteran Trials.

LeagueTroll

undead84 wrote: »

@ all ppl who complaining about easy vet difficulty: uhm.. do you use those trail optimized add ons and rotation help tools? in case you do you should think about to deinstall them if the content is too easy for you

Yesh pc players do not give a *** about console.

Drdeath20

Kalgert wrote: »

I don't understand where people are coming up with this "Power Creep" idea. If that really were the case, I'd be doing more than 13-15k DPS tops on my Magicka DK, with yellow staves, DoT up the whazoo (Even implementing a trick when as soon as I press to cast off an ability, I swap my staff to the other bar to better or worse extent) and also mix a light attack in between the casting and whatnot. It's almost like we're playing completely different games.

Oh, and don't tell me that the people who do 30k and beyond DPS single-target easily are doing something absolutely more complex that allows them to achieve these heights. I watched one DPS doing their thing, and what I saw was them literary spamming one single ability over and over again, maybe two other abilities as well, and they managed to deal a ton of damage. Tell me, how does that make any sense? When someone who's really trying their darnest deals less DPS than some guy who's for a lack of a better word "Half-arsing" their deal.

13-15 K dps is pretty low.

My PUG dungeon healer, MagPlar runs 3 damage over time skills (reflective light, elemental blockade, and shards) and I try to have 100% uptime with little overlap. Each DOT skill does about 3K a second. Soo thats 9k dps. Plus I use purifying light which does 6k damage instantly and 25k in 6 seconds
That is another 5k dps. force pulse is around 10k. Light attacks do around 6k so with animation cancellation thats really another 6k dps. Plus ultimate which I never tested the DPS on that. Thats almost 30k dps without getting crazy or taking criticals, empower or proc sets into account.

Thorstienn

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Kalgert wrote: »

I don't understand where people are coming up with this "Power Creep" idea. If that really were the case, I'd be doing more than 13-15k DPS tops on my Magicka DK, with yellow staves, DoT up the whazoo (Even implementing a trick when as soon as I press to cast off an ability, I swap my staff to the other bar to better or worse extent) and also mix a light attack in between the casting and whatnot. It's almost like we're playing completely different games.

Oh, and don't tell me that the people who do 30k and beyond DPS single-target easily are doing something absolutely more complex that allows them to achieve these heights. I watched one DPS doing their thing, and what I saw was them literary spamming one single ability over and over again, maybe two other abilities as well, and they managed to deal a ton of damage. Tell me, how does that make any sense? When someone who's really trying their darnest deals less DPS than some guy who's for a lack of a better word "Half-arsing" their deal.

13-15 K dps is pretty low.

My PUG dungeon healer, MagPlar runs 3 damage over time skills (reflective light, elemental blockade, and shards) and I try to have 100% uptime with little overlap. Each DOT skill does about 3K a second. Soo thats 9k dps. Plus I use purifying light which does 6k damage instantly and 25k in 6 seconds
That is another 5k dps. force pulse is around 10k. Light attacks do around 6k so with animation cancellation thats really another 6k dps. Plus ultimate which I never tested the DPS on that. Thats almost 30k dps without getting crazy or taking criticals, empower or proc sets into account.

The problem overall is DPS is out of control in this game. Mechanics should never be able to be skipped by high DPS, that's just lazy design, as are 1 shots.

Looking at the 2 above, both mention having a good rotation (step 1), but not CP(300-750 is a hefty damage in increase), gear (BiS dummy gear for example), penetration (if your not at cap from own+group big DPS loss), and solo/group buffs and debuffs.

Much less when we get to trial groups: should content be created to challenge the max CP, BiS, max Alkosh uptime, max warhorn, max Major Slayer, max torugs infused crusher, PoL, Major Courage, etc groups only? And I'm guessing rewarded accordingly right, with even better gear etc?

OP. Mentioned power creep, but then dismissed the only problem; DPS is too high! And each update they make it worse. Content isn't too easy, hell dungeons are hard for lots of players, it's the game design that is flawed: DPS is king, if you max it, everything else is trivial (kinda like GW2, a non-trinity game).

But at the end of the day, 1 side wants to grow and feel not powerful, and the other wants to be challenged; meanwhile I just want to be able to do a dungeon on my DPS without waiting an hour, and kill an overland mob with my tank in less than an hour!

IronCrystal

Here's my two cents on the matter, as well as some remarks on the comments I've read in this thread.

I don't think raids should be made more difficult. I definitely acknowledge the power creep (holy hell people are getting 75k+ dps on Valariel in vAA). But I see the lower end as well and the biggest hurdle to overcome is learning the mechanics. Increasing damage or health isn't going to do anything other than make everything a slog fest. I remember a patch where they increased the hp of all dungeon monsters and everything just simply took longer to run (slog).

I think ZOS needs to focus on making raids more accessible. Honestly, the people who are getting really high damage are those who have cleared many times in the past. The fun isn't in a simple clear anymore, the thrill comes from getting high scores on the leaderboards. I argue that the thrill of reaching high scores still exists regardless of the dps ceiling.

Making the trials more difficult still causes a lot of the top tier players to not enjoy it. Look at what happened in Morrowind. Lots of players (including myself, I just started playing a few weeks ago) left ESO because they were all arbitrarily made a lot worse due to the balance changes. A slog is not enjoyable.

As far as the people commenting in this, I hate it when you think Cheat Engine is being used, because believe me the top players are not using CE. They've simply ran the trials so many times and practiced their dps rotations it becomes second nature to them. Even coming back after a year of absence I still could remember my old rotation and timings on my healer.

Also, Raid Notifier is a great tool when it comes go *learning* trials, but I argue it does not allow the PC players to perform *better* in raids. At the top end of players hitting high scores, they do not need RaidNotifier at all. They have learned the animation hints when mechanics are coming, they know the timings of the bosses.

Those who argue about "elitests" not allowing players into their groups, I don't agree that those groups should be "more accessible". If someone wants a good run, they have every right to lock out new players. New players should join groups of other players that are also learning. If you are in an environment where its expected that everyone is either new or helping new players, then tensions don't rise. Don't expect to be allowed to join every vet trial run just because you own a copy of the game.

disintegr8

Rather than make existing content 'harder', ZOS should be adding new content that is harder and players can choose to run it or not.

I'd suggest the number of people who have not completed the top tier hard mode vet trials far exceed the number of people who have. Admittedly there are a lot of people who don't care about completing them, including myself, but that doesn't mean they should be pushed further out of our reach.

Mureel

greenmachine wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Agree with you, but that just won't do for streams and Teh Epeen will it?!

Yeah, if all that matters to you is e-peen, then I guess you're probably at the top of the leaderboards for all the trials, but that doesn't mean there aren't challenges left.

I'm sure some people would not want to "waste their time" to gear up noobs and help them learn the fights, but if they sit out the trial that will leave plenty of players who just enjoy the content and who enjoy helping others, and open up some slots for the new folks.

I don't see why keeping others from content improves someone's enjoyment of it. That exclusivity seems more toxic and elitist than asking players to have a meta build or BiS gear, or a certain amount of dps.

@greenmachine
Yeah that was a bit of sarcasm ;-)

I am actually in a guild whose focus is gearing new people and teaching trials. We have 3 core runs a week all of which are half new folks - but a set group, and raidplanner raids pretty much every day that anyone is welcome.

With a brand new group today we 1 shot VSO HM - thanks to the experienced folks who were glad to jump in and help.

For me anymore leaderboards just don't mean anything.

I prefer to be seeing people get new clears, being excited to run content, whooping and hollering when we cleared twins 3rd go!

Those are the things that make me happy in game ;-)