Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

dtsharples wrote: »

Top Tier Guild...

You aren't better than those people you mention above, just have a playstyle that is different.
A playstyle that the majority of people do not like to use, as is evident by the sheer lack of ball-groups.
(Which is good, any more and the server wouldn't handle it)

It limits your own creativity and contribution to whatever gear / skills you are told to run by someone else.
You don't need to think, react or make decisions like the majority of PVPers do in order to survive - which is what most people find enjoyable and is part of the 'thrill' of open world Cyrodiil. You do what you are told to do.

I have no issue with people playing a different way, but the posturing and 'holier than thou' attitude from ball groups is what gives them their bad name.
If they were to humble themselves, and come to the realisation that they are utilising every crutch in game, maybe people can take them more seriously.
For now ball groups are mostly ignored by anyone wanting to PVP seriously, only newbies and casuals bother with them.

dtsharples wrote: »

Top Tier Guild...

You aren't better than those people you mention above, just have a playstyle that is different.
A playstyle that the majority of people do not like to use, as is evident by the sheer lack of ball-groups.
(Which is good, any more and the server wouldn't handle it)

It limits your own creativity and contribution to whatever gear / skills you are told to run by someone else.
You don't need to think, react or make decisions like the majority of PVPers do in order to survive - which is what most people find enjoyable and is part of the 'thrill' of open world Cyrodiil. You do what you are told to do.

I have no issue with people playing a different way, but the posturing and 'holier than thou' attitude from ball groups is what gives them their bad name.
If they were to humble themselves, and come to the realisation that they are utilising every crutch in game, maybe people can take them more seriously.
For now ball groups are mostly ignored by anyone wanting to PVP seriously, only newbies and casuals bother with them.

dtsharples wrote: »

You seem like the type of player who will be running duroks sloads this patch.
If you don't understand groups you shouldn't be commenting on what is important to them or how they run.

Nope, Sload’s is trash and I don’t need Durok’s I have other more useful forms of defile.

dtsharples wrote: »

Nope, Sload’s is trash and I don’t need Durok’s I have other more useful forms of defile.

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

No, i'm saying your argument of git gud is something you should keep for the "nerf X and Y" threads.
What i'm saying is that ball groups cause lag, and should seek out fights where they don't impact server performance as much. It's basically the only thing I've been saying on these forums for 3 years

And the group I am in tries to do exactly as you want and the NA PC server performance is still trash.

If we are in a keep that we took and 50 PuGs come to try and take it, what exactly do you expect us to do? Disband group and put on our 1vX builds? Leave? Suicide? Not try to win?

Etaniel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

No, i'm saying your argument of git gud is something you should keep for the "nerf X and Y" threads.
What i'm saying is that ball groups cause lag, and should seek out fights where they don't impact server performance as much. It's basically the only thing I've been saying on these forums for 3 years

And the group I am in tries to do exactly as you want and the NA PC server performance is still trash.

If we are in a keep that we took and 50 PuGs come to try and take it, what exactly do you expect us to do? Disband group and put on our 1vX builds? Leave? Suicide? Not try to win?

"when we don't fight, the game still lags" wow well of course you aren't the only ones playing are you? And no I don't expect you to suicide, *sigh* if you read my original rant here it was about a dethrone situation, with 2 factions already fighting for the keep, and an additional faction coming in with a single ball group to farm the other two factions. There's a difference between, oh our keep is under attack, let's defend, and , oh there's a 50 vs 50 fight dethrone going on, let's pile up even more.

LarsS wrote: »

Anyone who can tell me how many threads we already had with this blamegame?