Are 'Ball-Groups' even logical ?

frozywozy · June 2018

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

dtsharples · June 2018

Top Tier Guild...

You aren't better than those people you mention above, just have a playstyle that is different.
A playstyle that the majority of people do not like to use, as is evident by the sheer lack of ball-groups.
(Which is good, any more and the server wouldn't handle it)

It limits your own creativity and contribution to whatever gear / skills you are told to run by someone else.
You don't need to think, react or make decisions like the majority of PVPers do in order to survive - which is what most people find enjoyable and is part of the 'thrill' of open world Cyrodiil. You do what you are told to do.

I have no issue with people playing a different way, but the posturing and 'holier than thou' attitude from ball groups is what gives them their bad name.
If they were to humble themselves, and come to the realisation that they are utilising every crutch in game, maybe people can take them more seriously.
For now ball groups are mostly ignored by anyone wanting to PVP seriously, only newbies and casuals bother with them.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · June 2018

dtsharples wrote: »

Top Tier Guild...

You aren't better than those people you mention above, just have a playstyle that is different.
A playstyle that the majority of people do not like to use, as is evident by the sheer lack of ball-groups.
(Which is good, any more and the server wouldn't handle it)

It limits your own creativity and contribution to whatever gear / skills you are told to run by someone else.
You don't need to think, react or make decisions like the majority of PVPers do in order to survive - which is what most people find enjoyable and is part of the 'thrill' of open world Cyrodiil. You do what you are told to do.

I have no issue with people playing a different way, but the posturing and 'holier than thou' attitude from ball groups is what gives them their bad name.
If they were to humble themselves, and come to the realisation that they are utilising every crutch in game, maybe people can take them more seriously.
For now ball groups are mostly ignored by anyone wanting to PVP seriously, only newbies and casuals bother with them.

You seem like the type of player who will be running duroks sloads this patch.
If you don't understand groups you shouldn't be commenting on what is important to them or how they run.

Otoh you are free to have your own opinion

DaveMoeDee · June 2018

dtsharples wrote: »

If I wanted to shoot fish in a barrel, I'd play PVE....ball groups might be 'logical' but they sure look ridiculous.
Those who need a crutch will always stack in a group with pocket healers to stay alive, but I guess everyone can play as they prefer, even if most people don't see it as 'PVP'.

Yeah, or those people who need a crutch so they have healers when doing vet trials. Or those who need the crutch of having skills on their bars when doing vMA.

Taking objectives in Cyrodiil is PvP. Next you are going to tell me that capturing a flag in capture the flag modes isn't PvP, but PvFlag (or PvRelic). If you don't like it, you don't like it. But that claim that "you are doing it wrong" is nonsense. Sadly, people tend to confuse what they like and don't like with how things should be.

TequilaFire · June 2018

dtsharples wrote: »

Top Tier Guild...

You aren't better than those people you mention above, just have a playstyle that is different.
A playstyle that the majority of people do not like to use, as is evident by the sheer lack of ball-groups.
(Which is good, any more and the server wouldn't handle it)

It limits your own creativity and contribution to whatever gear / skills you are told to run by someone else.
You don't need to think, react or make decisions like the majority of PVPers do in order to survive - which is what most people find enjoyable and is part of the 'thrill' of open world Cyrodiil. You do what you are told to do.

I have no issue with people playing a different way, but the posturing and 'holier than thou' attitude from ball groups is what gives them their bad name.
If they were to humble themselves, and come to the realisation that they are utilising every crutch in game, maybe people can take them more seriously.
For now ball groups are mostly ignored by anyone wanting to PVP seriously, only newbies and casuals bother with them.

Wow, could you imagine if military units worked in uncoordinated solo chaos?
Imagine if 12 man trial teams ran like that.
You have a distorted view of how a well organized guild group works.

Anrose · June 2018

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

dtsharples wrote: »

Top Tier Guild...

You aren't better than those people you mention above, just have a playstyle that is different.
A playstyle that the majority of people do not like to use, as is evident by the sheer lack of ball-groups.
(Which is good, any more and the server wouldn't handle it)

It limits your own creativity and contribution to whatever gear / skills you are told to run by someone else.
You don't need to think, react or make decisions like the majority of PVPers do in order to survive - which is what most people find enjoyable and is part of the 'thrill' of open world Cyrodiil. You do what you are told to do.

I have no issue with people playing a different way, but the posturing and 'holier than thou' attitude from ball groups is what gives them their bad name.
If they were to humble themselves, and come to the realisation that they are utilising every crutch in game, maybe people can take them more seriously.
For now ball groups are mostly ignored by anyone wanting to PVP seriously, only newbies and casuals bother with them.

You seem like the type of player who will be running duroks sloads this patch.
If you don't understand groups you shouldn't be commenting on what is important to them or how they run.

Otoh you are free to have your own opinion

Seconded.

Clearly, one has never run in a group such as this if they think that’s all there is to it. And if they have, sounds like it was a bad one and not a successful one.

VaranisArano · June 2018

I main a "pocket healer" in an organized raid. If you've never done it with a good organized raid, well, its the exact opposite of turning your brain off and spamming one or two skills while following crown like a lemming. At least if you are any good at being a raid healer.

Okay, okay, I have followed Crown over cliffs a few times while we were riding between combat, but I think Crown does that on purpose

Crispen_Longbow · June 2018

dtsharples wrote: »

Top Tier Guild...

You aren't better than those people you mention above, just have a playstyle that is different.
A playstyle that the majority of people do not like to use, as is evident by the sheer lack of ball-groups.

TequilaFire wrote: »

Wow, could you imagine if military units worked in uncoordinated solo chaos?
Imagine if 12 man trial teams ran like that.
You have a distorted view of how a well organized guild group works.

I believe they have made quite a few comedy movies about this military style. Sample image above.

frozywozy · June 2018

dtsharples wrote: »

Top Tier Guild...

You aren't better than those people you mention above, just have a playstyle that is different.
A playstyle that the majority of people do not like to use, as is evident by the sheer lack of ball-groups.
(Which is good, any more and the server wouldn't handle it)

It limits your own creativity and contribution to whatever gear / skills you are told to run by someone else.
You don't need to think, react or make decisions like the majority of PVPers do in order to survive - which is what most people find enjoyable and is part of the 'thrill' of open world Cyrodiil. You do what you are told to do.

I have no issue with people playing a different way, but the posturing and 'holier than thou' attitude from ball groups is what gives them their bad name.
If they were to humble themselves, and come to the realisation that they are utilising every crutch in game, maybe people can take them more seriously.
For now ball groups are mostly ignored by anyone wanting to PVP seriously, only newbies and casuals bother with them.

dtsharples · June 2018

You seem like the type of player who will be running duroks sloads this patch.
If you don't understand groups you shouldn't be commenting on what is important to them or how they run.

Nope, Sload’s is trash and I don’t need Durok’s I have other more useful forms of defile.

Yeah, or those people who need a crutch so they have healers when doing vet trials.

Not even similar. I have done all vet content and have specific days for PVE. I don’t want to PVE in Cyrodiil also.

Clearly, one has never run in a group such as this if they think that’s all there is to it.

I lasted about 3 or 4 weeks before I couldn’t take the people seriously anymore.

Great photo Crispen, that pretty much sums it up. Fighting against newbies and casuals like I already said, thanks for backing that up.

Wasn’t expecting so much triggering. Guess huddling in groups and hiding behind healers makes you soft eventually :P

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · June 2018

dtsharples wrote: »

You seem like the type of player who will be running duroks sloads this patch.
If you don't understand groups you shouldn't be commenting on what is important to them or how they run.

Nope, Sload’s is trash and I don’t need Durok’s I have other more useful forms of defile.

Yeh.. ok and I'm guessing you don't wait for low cp players to walk past you and try and horse gank them too

I'm sure you do highly difficult 10v1s against top teir duelers.

Etaniel · June 2018

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

Etaniel · June 2018

dtsharples wrote: »

Nope, Sload’s is trash and I don’t need Durok’s I have other more useful forms of defile.

Sload is the furthest thing from a trash set though

BohnT · June 2018

Etaniel wrote: »

dtsharples wrote: »

Nope, Sload’s is trash and I don’t need Durok’s I have other more useful forms of defile.

Sload is the furthest thing from a trash set though

But it's only 853 damage just slot a heal

frozywozy · June 2018

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

Feanor · June 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

dtsharples wrote: »

Nope, Sload’s is trash and I don’t need Durok’s I have other more useful forms of defile.

Sload is the furthest thing from a trash set though

But it's only 853 damage just slot a heal

No, you have to run Purge. It’s a skill in the alliance war support tree. It’s efficient. Even says so in the name.

If you excuse me, I‘m going to spam Rapid Regen for a few minutes now.

Etaniel · June 2018

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

No, i'm saying your argument of git gud is something you should keep for the "nerf X and Y" threads.
What i'm saying is that ball groups cause lag, and should seek out fights where they don't impact server performance as much. It's basically the only thing I've been saying on these forums for 3 years

Joy_Division · June 2018

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

No, i'm saying your argument of git gud is something you should keep for the "nerf X and Y" threads.
What i'm saying is that ball groups cause lag, and should seek out fights where they don't impact server performance as much. It's basically the only thing I've been saying on these forums for 3 years

And the group I am in tries to do exactly as you want and the NA PC server performance is still trash.

If we are in a keep that we took and 50 PuGs come to try and take it, what exactly do you expect us to do? Disband group and put on our 1vX builds? Leave? Suicide? Not try to win?

Etaniel · June 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

No, i'm saying your argument of git gud is something you should keep for the "nerf X and Y" threads.
What i'm saying is that ball groups cause lag, and should seek out fights where they don't impact server performance as much. It's basically the only thing I've been saying on these forums for 3 years

And the group I am in tries to do exactly as you want and the NA PC server performance is still trash.

If we are in a keep that we took and 50 PuGs come to try and take it, what exactly do you expect us to do? Disband group and put on our 1vX builds? Leave? Suicide? Not try to win?

"when we don't fight, the game still lags" wow well of course you aren't the only ones playing are you? And no I don't expect you to suicide, *sigh* if you read my original rant here it was about a dethrone situation, with 2 factions already fighting for the keep, and an additional faction coming in with a single ball group to farm the other two factions. There's a difference between, oh our keep is under attack, let's defend, and , oh there's a 50 vs 50 fight dethrone going on, let's pile up even more.

LarsS · June 2018

Anyone who can tell me how many threads we already had with this blamegame?

Joy_Division · June 2018

Etaniel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

No, i'm saying your argument of git gud is something you should keep for the "nerf X and Y" threads.
What i'm saying is that ball groups cause lag, and should seek out fights where they don't impact server performance as much. It's basically the only thing I've been saying on these forums for 3 years

And the group I am in tries to do exactly as you want and the NA PC server performance is still trash.

If we are in a keep that we took and 50 PuGs come to try and take it, what exactly do you expect us to do? Disband group and put on our 1vX builds? Leave? Suicide? Not try to win?

"when we don't fight, the game still lags" wow well of course you aren't the only ones playing are you? And no I don't expect you to suicide, *sigh* if you read my original rant here it was about a dethrone situation, with 2 factions already fighting for the keep, and an additional faction coming in with a single ball group to farm the other two factions. There's a difference between, oh our keep is under attack, let's defend, and , oh there's a 50 vs 50 fight dethrone going on, let's pile up even more.

I did not read your original rant, just your posts #142 and #175 when you generalized that behavior for ball groups inside a keep.

I get it, you and others don't like when the server lags. Well, I'm not a fan of it either. Even if there isn't an emp dethrone or a 50 v 50 fight going on somewhere, the server performance still sucks and people will still complain and direct their frustration at all "ball groups" as if we're all the same and somehow responsible instead of ZoS.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2018

Ball shouldn't be the only formation. I love the massive battles but it would have been nice if actual formation was a little more meaningful. Ball groups are logical in the sense that many of us came to the game precisely because of angry joe screaming hilariously on his microphone as hordes of players bombarded keeps and one another. There are certainly strategies available but it would be nice if there were a few more formation promoting strategies available. Most of the game changes seem to surround 'forming into ball' and 'breaking the ball'. Would be nice if there were better Line formats (which I guess a Siege line represents).

Elong · June 2018

It really sucks to see so many long time players in this thread blaming eachother for ZOS's incompetence to run the server.

Don't let them get to you like they are.

Etaniel · June 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

No, i'm saying your argument of git gud is something you should keep for the "nerf X and Y" threads.
What i'm saying is that ball groups cause lag, and should seek out fights where they don't impact server performance as much. It's basically the only thing I've been saying on these forums for 3 years

And the group I am in tries to do exactly as you want and the NA PC server performance is still trash.

If we are in a keep that we took and 50 PuGs come to try and take it, what exactly do you expect us to do? Disband group and put on our 1vX builds? Leave? Suicide? Not try to win?

"when we don't fight, the game still lags" wow well of course you aren't the only ones playing are you? And no I don't expect you to suicide, *sigh* if you read my original rant here it was about a dethrone situation, with 2 factions already fighting for the keep, and an additional faction coming in with a single ball group to farm the other two factions. There's a difference between, oh our keep is under attack, let's defend, and , oh there's a 50 vs 50 fight dethrone going on, let's pile up even more.

I did not read your original rant, just your posts #142 and #175 when you generalized that behavior for ball groups inside a keep.

I get it, you and others don't like when the server lags. Well, I'm not a fan of it either. Even if there isn't an emp dethrone or a 50 v 50 fight going on somewhere, the server performance still sucks and people will still complain and direct their frustration at all "ball groups" as if we're all the same and somehow responsible instead of ZoS.

I think the "it's zos's responsability" thing isn't going to get us anywhere. We all love this game, and ZOS isn't going to do anything about performance unless the PvP playerbase can provide them as much income as their PvE playerbase. And the PvP playerbase will only yield less and less precisely because of performance. So, yeah it might be Zos's fault, but it's up to the players to do something about it, instead of saying F*** it, let's pile up even more, it's lagging anyways. I just expect more out of the people who play Cyrodiil every day and especially from the ones who call themselves the elite/ultra organized.
And maybe the situation is different in NA, I don't know, this is my EU PC Vivec perspective

MLRPZ · June 2018

LarsS wrote: »

Anyone who can tell me how many threads we already had with this blamegame?

"damn, that's gotta be at least 12"

Delsskia · June 2018

Group play is just 1vX with benefits.

Lieblingsjunge · June 2018

Discussing this is still a waste of time. Since the single, one thing, that enables ball groups, are too casual to probably even know that forums exist. Or rather, they don't care enough to know. Cheers!

dtsharples · June 2018

Nah, its X (~16) v 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111 ....

Baring in mind most of those 1's are individuals, not usually in groups, certainly not on chat, and certainly not receiving heals / buffs from each other. Mostly built as glass cannons or all-rounders in order to survive in open-world Cyrodiil as an individual......fish in a barrel.
But if that's what people enjoy, who are we to judge

It's so rare to see any of these ball groups go head to head, they seem to actively avoid it.
I guess Earthgores and Negates proccing every 10 seconds doesnt make for an interesting fight...maybe a long fight though, so that could explain the avoidance. Plus, killing newbies, PVErs and those who walk into the trap unwittingly requires much less effort.

There are a few smaller groups that command a lot of respect, usually groups of 6 or 7 people who can stand their ground against a wave of others. You just see much less of that recently, and more of this AOE drivel.

Irylia · June 2018

Have players take more damage for stacking
12/16/20/24/^+

25/35/45/55/65% more dmg

Or release a competitive arenas XvX with an actual mmr leaderboard + “season(quarterly)” rewards (cosmetics/title) for those with a group in the top 5.
Unique rewards for #1

Then I don’t care about cyro

Anrose · June 2018

Irylia wrote: »

Have players take more damage for stacking
12/16/20/24/^+

25/35/45/55/65% more dmg

Or release a competitive arenas XvX with an actual mmr leaderboard + “season(quarterly)” rewards (cosmetics/title) for those with a group in the top 5.
Unique rewards for #1

Then I don’t care about cyro

Neither does ZOS, so good ideas like this will get as much traction as a race car in Minnesota in January.