Are 'Ball-Groups' even logical ?

raviour

This needs putting out there. I don't ever see them doing anything productive or fun and a solo gets better AP gain. I think they just do it for attention...

How many times you read... "**(random generic ball-group) at *** (random generic keep)" ?

Its like some players get kicks out of knowing which ball-group is which and that people will think they are cool for mention them (people use nameplates too, not me but ball group = easy AP to a solo so I remember some @names). Don't big-up these ball zergs, they are totally useless and are just trolling newbies or AD (AD are almost all newbies in Vivkek(EU) coz of morning caps). They feed off of undeserved hype.

So I guess the point is, what is the point of these portable Rugby scrums that just hold onto each others crotches and throw the ball backwards if they ever get it? Doesn't seem very progressive for 'wannabe' end-gamers and takes no skill what-so-ever.

I don't think they are logical, Royals were a very effective 12 man raid that equalled 20 man ZS but we were not ball, just had an inventive leader. Black Swords seem to be similar but never ran with them. AD and EP do not have this stuff.

As a PuG lead we can contain ZS, UF, DE, NL, Big Boss, Saras or anyone with 1/5 numbers because they are all so predictable and DC don't like to play like we were 7 year olds chasing a football so we know how to AvAvA with least pop.

Like a lot of things in life its like genitalia. Its not how big your zergs or balls are... Its what you do with them that counts....

*note..... I don't hate ball-groups I just feel sorry for them.

Satiar

I don`t hate the people I roll over in a ball group, nor do I feel sorry for them. In this, we are alike!

Agrippa_Invisus

The first easy point is communication. They are guaranteed to be in voice communication with each other (Discord or TS) and everything they do is coordinated. Both movement and damage output.

The point is concentration of firepower and healing. All the healing and all the hurt is in one area. All the buffs are in one are, so everyone is always affected.

This allows enemy players to be blasted down much faster, while layered healer effect keep the group up far outside of normal amounts of punishment.

Prior to the elimination of AOE caps, it also meant free damage reduction if you could get enough folks together that the AOE damage effects started experience damage dropoffs. This point is moot now, though.

Ball groups can turn a protracted siege into a short one or vice versa depending on which side of the engagement they enter. Depending on the quality of builds and players within the group, it can often take being outnumbered 3 or 4 (or more) to 1 before they have a real chance of being wiped unless they are fighting another ball group.

At least, that's what happens on the PC NA side of the field.

raviour

Experienced players just stroll through a ball group and get ignored. The group does not want to waste time on a solo that is their biggest threat because the solo does not run away and knows how they think. They instead make videos of killing siege junkies that any solo could do.

An 'organized group' and a 'ball-group' are 2 different things... An organized group the dead are marked with chalk like normal.... A ball-group, marked with cheese.

I always feel guilty newbie-slaying or Xv1ing so I don't do it unless its 1vXnewbies.

So why pretend you/they are the best players around and are totally hopeless solo unless organized duel? Show me ZS v Fassold if you wanna defend stupid ball-zergs, the cause of lag and confusion. I bet Fassold would kill them after maybe 3 hours. UF are more productive than ZS recently, I think Sanct got too strict on the BoL rotation and people are getting confused.

Agrippa_Invisus

raviour wrote: »

Experienced players just stroll through a ball group and get ignored. The group does not want to waste time on a solo that is their biggest threat because the solo does not run away and knows how they think. They instead make videos of killing siege junkies that any solo could do.

An 'organized group' and a 'ball-group' are 2 different things... An organized group the dead are marked with chalk like normal.... A ball-group, marked with cheese.

I always feel guilty newbie-slaying or Xv1ing so I don't do it unless its 1vXnewbies.

So why pretend you/they are the best players around and are totally hopeless solo unless organized duel? Show me ZS v Fassold if you wanna defend stupid ball-zergs, the cause of lag and confusion. I bet Fassold would kill them after maybe 3 hours. UF are more productive than ZS recently, I think Sanct got too strict on the BoL rotation and people are getting confused.

So, was this thread a serious question, or just a clever troll in an attempt to bash groups?

I honestly can't tell because it only took until the second post before you started going hard off the rails.

umagon

The cluster groups of players are logical. Due to the game mechanics, how the objectives function in cyrodiil and players in builds that aren’t optimized for objective play. It’s the most efficient way to play if claiming the objectives or just killing players in mass is the goal. Those groups can be defused to some degree but many players do not run the correct builds to do so. The trick is to understand that if they can’t get the walls down on the keep/outpost then they can’t get to the flags. This one concept gets lost to most players.

Additionally, the organized groups have one flaw that people also over look. Each player functions as part of a collective whole, while they are in their group builds they have lower or no standing power when isolated individually. Siege weapons can not be placed on top of each other which requires them to spread out a bit. This opens a window of opportunity to burn down their siege weapons; if players are built for it. In addition to firing counter siege. Because to kill a player built for more for solo objective play would require them to collectively focus that player to stop them; as one player from their group isn’t enough.

What happens is basically you have an organized group of players who are built to complete an objective or defeating mass amounts of players. While people who are solo or are just pick group only do not have the built configuration for objective play or survival. They are typically in builds that are for one on one or small group (4v4 etc) encounters.

zyk

Playstyle elitism is pretty meh imo. I wish this community could get past that and stop trying to shame others for the parts of the game they don't enjoy.

idk

I think OP misunderstands the purpose of a "ball group" or zerg. Truly the main idea is one can take a mass of unskilled players and actually earn some AP

So while some can earn more AP solo, some cannot.

In the end this type of PvP will always have zergs.

Rohamad_Ali

VaranisArano

By a "ball-group", do you mean an organized raid following the calls of a leader in voice comms, often with a battle plan or an objective in mind and able to respond, move, heal, and attack in an organized fashion?

Because the logic of those types of groups is pretty obvious. As is their success at objective play and on the battlefield.

The alternative to balling up is to have that large number of players scattered, unable to follow calls, unable to be easily healed and unable to concentrate damage on enemies...basically a disorganized zerg of players. Disorganized players can overwhelm through sheer numbers but otherwise have a much harder time taking objectives or winning battles than an organized group.

Organized raids ball up because its the most effective way to capitalize on their organization and that organization is what makes them dangerous.

Disorganized players that ball up are just a mass of players serving with none of the benefits of actual organization.

idk

VaranisArano wrote: »

By a "ball-group", do you mean an organized raid following the calls of a leader in voice comms, often with a battle plan or an objective in mind and able to respond, move, heal, and attack in an organized fashion?

Because the logic of those types of groups is pretty obvious. As is their success at objective play and on the battlefiel

OMG, with all the banter before OP seemed to be getting to the point I may have missed the obvious that he may be calling out organized groups vs the standard Zerg.

Sanct16

@raviour




Thanks for the shout-out.

Sanct16

btw, who is Royals?

Rin_Senya

raviour wrote: »

Royals were a very effective 12 man raid

Who?
But ty for the AP tho I guess...

rivenjr

idk wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

By a "ball-group", do you mean an organized raid following the calls of a leader in voice comms, often with a battle plan or an objective in mind and able to respond, move, heal, and attack in an organized fashion?

Because the logic of those types of groups is pretty obvious. As is their success at objective play and on the battlefiel

OMG, with all the banter before OP seemed to be getting to the point I may have missed the obvious that he may be calling out organized groups vs the standard Zerg.

Not a whole lot of organization with “stand inside crown”. Especially when you hit them with seige. I’ve always been a huge fan of Collision for PvP. Just slow people a bit when they touch each other. That would make for some true organization and battle formations would be necessary in open field combat.

WaltherCarraway

Yes, technically ball group (aka organized group) is the most efficient way to utilize manpower and to play the alliance war.

usmcjdking

Logical? Of course grouping is logical. More people + communication + coordination = better results in just about any arena imaginable.


The only thing illogical about ball groups is that there is no real counter. IRL clumping up as such in open combat just screams indirect fire and suppression. ESO does not really have that available nor is it practical to implement tactical nukes in ESO.

Biro123

An awesome for both Rav and Sanct.
Thread is potential gold.

dtsharples

Ball groups are the ultimate scrubs.
I get that they feel superior for playing PVE in PVP, but anyone can survive when they have 5 pocket healers.

I genuinely look down on these people as sub-par PVPers.
Rolling over soloers in a group of 20 really doesnt take any skill at all - regardless of how many times these people try to plead with you that it does.

Derra

only way to play the game when it lags is in a ballgrp or zerg.
ironically the lag is mostly caused by multiple ballgrps on the map.

hen or the egg - lag or the ballgrp

one leads to the other.

SHADOW2KK

Oh noes, players are being organised and wiping scrubs out and using skills and stuff in the game, which the game should be able to handle, but it does not, must be easier to blame ball groups for all sorts of nefarious evils.

The fault lies with ZoS, not ball groups.

MLRPZ

I think y'all are just sad cause you get killed by "**(random generic ball-group) at *** (random generic keep)" more often than not

FakeZavos

raviour wrote: »

This needs putting out there. I don't ever see them doing anything productive or fun and a solo gets better AP gain. I think they just do it for attention...

Proper ball groups making 80-200k AP/H. Goodluck doing that with bigboss chasing that 1 guy over 1/4 of the map

FakeZavos

raviour wrote: »

This needs putting out there. I don't ever see them doing anything productive or fun and a solo gets better AP gain. I think they just do it for attention...

Rin_Senya wrote: »

raviour wrote: »

Royals were a very effective 12 man raid

Who?
But ty for the AP tho I guess...

Wasnt that "Your Royal Highness" group?

Anrose

I had to read this thread on desktop because the egos in here are too big to fit on my mobile screen.

VaranisArano

usmcjdking wrote: »

Logical? Of course grouping is logical. More people + communication + coordination = better results in just about any arena imaginable.


The only thing illogical about ball groups is that there is no real counter. IRL clumping up as such in open combat just screams indirect fire and suppression. ESO does not really have that available nor is it practical to implement tactical nukes in ESO.

There's a counter. Either overwhelming numbers of disorganized players or another organized raid that outplays them. Depending on how,good both sides are, an organized small group might have some luck.

Guild v Guild fights can be pretty incredible, open field or at an objective.

Its just that an organized raid is incredibly powerful because of their organization, so to counter likewise requires equal or better organization. Or simply overwhelming numbers. I've seen both methods work, and while overwhelming numbers of disorganized players often has the harder time of it, it does work.

Aki-Ral

More action on the forum then on Vivec it seems

dtsharples

Time Stop + Negate + several Inevitable Detonations.

But that would take co-ordination. And these ball groups only fight unorganised Soloers for the majority of the time, so its a moot point really.

Anrose

dtsharples wrote: »

Time Stop + Negate + several Inevitable Detonations.

But that would take co-ordination. And these ball groups only fight unorganised Soloers for the majority of the time, so its a moot point really.

Most of the PC NA Vivec guilds seek each other out and even go so far as to pick their raid nights based on which guilds are out there to fight. It doesn’t always wok out, so they end up going to pull a faction stack somewhere.

Yuke

Then you US guys are lucky. On EU they try their best not to meet eachother until its absolutely inevitable.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

"DC Small Scale"