Are 'Ball-Groups' even logical ?

Joy_Division

Etaniel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

No, i'm saying your argument of git gud is something you should keep for the "nerf X and Y" threads.
What i'm saying is that ball groups cause lag, and should seek out fights where they don't impact server performance as much. It's basically the only thing I've been saying on these forums for 3 years

And the group I am in tries to do exactly as you want and the NA PC server performance is still trash.

If we are in a keep that we took and 50 PuGs come to try and take it, what exactly do you expect us to do? Disband group and put on our 1vX builds? Leave? Suicide? Not try to win?

"when we don't fight, the game still lags" wow well of course you aren't the only ones playing are you? And no I don't expect you to suicide, *sigh* if you read my original rant here it was about a dethrone situation, with 2 factions already fighting for the keep, and an additional faction coming in with a single ball group to farm the other two factions. There's a difference between, oh our keep is under attack, let's defend, and , oh there's a 50 vs 50 fight dethrone going on, let's pile up even more.

I did not read your original rant, just your posts #142 and #175 when you generalized that behavior for ball groups inside a keep.

I get it, you and others don't like when the server lags. Well, I'm not a fan of it either. Even if there isn't an emp dethrone or a 50 v 50 fight going on somewhere, the server performance still sucks and people will still complain and direct their frustration at all "ball groups" as if we're all the same and somehow responsible instead of ZoS.

I think the "it's zos's responsability" thing isn't going to get us anywhere. We all love this game, and ZOS isn't going to do anything about performance unless the PvP playerbase can provide them as much income as their PvE playerbase. And the PvP playerbase will only yield less and less precisely because of performance. So, yeah it might be Zos's fault, but it's up to the players to do something about it, instead of saying F*** it, let's pile up even more, it's lagging anyways. I just expect more out of the people who play Cyrodiil every day and especially from the ones who call themselves the elite/ultra organized.
And maybe the situation is different in NA, I don't know, this is my EU PC Vivec perspective

And we're right back to square one. You can ask Big Boss or whoever not to "pile up" and the server will still perform like crap because the vast majority of NA guilds cap their groups sizes and don't exhibit the sort of behavior you were ranting about and it doesn't do any good because no matter how "responsible" the players are, the game's servers can't handle it (and this isn't just PvP, when I am by myself in vMA, the game's performance is garbage by the end).

Etaniel

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

No, i'm saying your argument of git gud is something you should keep for the "nerf X and Y" threads.
What i'm saying is that ball groups cause lag, and should seek out fights where they don't impact server performance as much. It's basically the only thing I've been saying on these forums for 3 years

And the group I am in tries to do exactly as you want and the NA PC server performance is still trash.

If we are in a keep that we took and 50 PuGs come to try and take it, what exactly do you expect us to do? Disband group and put on our 1vX builds? Leave? Suicide? Not try to win?

"when we don't fight, the game still lags" wow well of course you aren't the only ones playing are you? And no I don't expect you to suicide, *sigh* if you read my original rant here it was about a dethrone situation, with 2 factions already fighting for the keep, and an additional faction coming in with a single ball group to farm the other two factions. There's a difference between, oh our keep is under attack, let's defend, and , oh there's a 50 vs 50 fight dethrone going on, let's pile up even more.

I did not read your original rant, just your posts #142 and #175 when you generalized that behavior for ball groups inside a keep.

I get it, you and others don't like when the server lags. Well, I'm not a fan of it either. Even if there isn't an emp dethrone or a 50 v 50 fight going on somewhere, the server performance still sucks and people will still complain and direct their frustration at all "ball groups" as if we're all the same and somehow responsible instead of ZoS.

I think the "it's zos's responsability" thing isn't going to get us anywhere. We all love this game, and ZOS isn't going to do anything about performance unless the PvP playerbase can provide them as much income as their PvE playerbase. And the PvP playerbase will only yield less and less precisely because of performance. So, yeah it might be Zos's fault, but it's up to the players to do something about it, instead of saying F*** it, let's pile up even more, it's lagging anyways. I just expect more out of the people who play Cyrodiil every day and especially from the ones who call themselves the elite/ultra organized.
And maybe the situation is different in NA, I don't know, this is my EU PC Vivec perspective

And we're right back to square one. You can ask Big Boss or whoever not to "pile up" and the server will still perform like crap because the vast majority of NA guilds cap their groups sizes and don't exhibit the sort of behavior you were ranting about and it doesn't do any good because no matter how "responsible" the players are, the game's servers can't handle it (and this isn't just PvP, when I am by myself in vMA, the game's performance is garbage by the end).

Some pop locked evenings have minimal lag and are enjoyable, others are pure cancer. The difference between those evenings are entirely player behaviour.
If you think it's a 100% lost cause, and that there's absolutely nothing you can do, then I'll stop here, otherwise I'm just asking for common sense from people who are capable of it.

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, we've removed several baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic with the thread and free of personal insults. Thank you.

AhPook_Is_Here

I think therefore I am; therefore ball groups. looks valid and sound to me.

Xai_Zi

How many people here actually play the game? This account has never logged into the game even once.

Joy_Division

Etaniel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Tbh all i want is for ball groups to actually realise how miserable it is when it lags, just like the rest of us do. Like really, there's nothing more irritating than what I described a little bit higher, we fail for an entire hour and keep wiping, and we come to roebeck to see that a ball group has been farming while we can't do sh**, because we rely on single target that gets quadruple dodged during lag while you guys rely on aoe dmg/heals.

And don't tell me that you are affected by lag as much as the rest, you wouldn't be able to farm a keep for an hour if you were

So you're saying that the problem is the 12-16men raid farming 50+ inside Roebeck causing the lag? No. The problem is the fact the faction have to stack 50 players to get a 12-16men down and still get rolled. They need to step up their gameplay and get good instead of relaying on numbers to overcome their opponents.

If every faction of every campaign would have at least one top tier guild online at any time of the day, nobody could farm forever like this because no matter what you think, it's really easy to wipe a top tier guild with only a few competent players. We have been the victim of this several times already, even prior of summerset when earthgore was as its summon.

There are just way too many players who dont give a flying *** about improving and simply want to zerg surf with absurd builds and strategies and who will blame hack, cheat and exploit whenever it does not go their way.

On EU, most ball groups (I won't say top tier because the number of actual good ball groups on EU can be counted on one hand, one that received multiple amputations I might add) avoid each other for the most part and would rather farm pugs than to chase the other ball groups around the map.

Also you have to realise that a lot of people in Cyrodiil are casual players who join to get their assault line up and then leave. Telling them to git gud in order to take down a ball group of 14 people who've been try harding PvP since beta so that we can have less lag? Really? People who blame hack cheats exploits etc are a totally different subject, and it has nothing to do with the lag that a ball group creates inside an already crowded keep.

Zerg fights inside keep cause lag, but they don't last nearly as long as when a ball group is involved. Usually the attacking zerg makes a move and tries to push the flag, they either capture and the fight is over, or they wipe, the defending zerg pushes them out, repairs and fight is over until they themselves run to attack the next keep. In both cases, the fight ends.

When a ball group is farming though... They'll hold the inside, bait the attackers into going on flags, wipe them while they are on it, push a little outside the gate, retreat because you can't kill a spread out zerg firing siege at you if you stay packed, and voila you've got a never ending farm cycle inside the keep because they never fully end the fight.

So even if you argue that ball groups don't cause more lag than your typical zerg, they tend to cause longer keep fights in general. And I'd personally would rather have a 3 min lag spike when a zerg captures a keep, than a 1 hour permament laggy server because there's that one siege that won't end.

So to resume your paragraph, we have to understand that players come to level assault skill line rather than get gud, got it. We shall now stop farming zergs so they can fully level assault and go back to pve for the best of all.

No, i'm saying your argument of git gud is something you should keep for the "nerf X and Y" threads.
What i'm saying is that ball groups cause lag, and should seek out fights where they don't impact server performance as much. It's basically the only thing I've been saying on these forums for 3 years

And the group I am in tries to do exactly as you want and the NA PC server performance is still trash.

If we are in a keep that we took and 50 PuGs come to try and take it, what exactly do you expect us to do? Disband group and put on our 1vX builds? Leave? Suicide? Not try to win?

"when we don't fight, the game still lags" wow well of course you aren't the only ones playing are you? And no I don't expect you to suicide, *sigh* if you read my original rant here it was about a dethrone situation, with 2 factions already fighting for the keep, and an additional faction coming in with a single ball group to farm the other two factions. There's a difference between, oh our keep is under attack, let's defend, and , oh there's a 50 vs 50 fight dethrone going on, let's pile up even more.

I did not read your original rant, just your posts #142 and #175 when you generalized that behavior for ball groups inside a keep.

I get it, you and others don't like when the server lags. Well, I'm not a fan of it either. Even if there isn't an emp dethrone or a 50 v 50 fight going on somewhere, the server performance still sucks and people will still complain and direct their frustration at all "ball groups" as if we're all the same and somehow responsible instead of ZoS.

I think the "it's zos's responsability" thing isn't going to get us anywhere. We all love this game, and ZOS isn't going to do anything about performance unless the PvP playerbase can provide them as much income as their PvE playerbase. And the PvP playerbase will only yield less and less precisely because of performance. So, yeah it might be Zos's fault, but it's up to the players to do something about it, instead of saying F*** it, let's pile up even more, it's lagging anyways. I just expect more out of the people who play Cyrodiil every day and especially from the ones who call themselves the elite/ultra organized.
And maybe the situation is different in NA, I don't know, this is my EU PC Vivec perspective

And we're right back to square one. You can ask Big Boss or whoever not to "pile up" and the server will still perform like crap because the vast majority of NA guilds cap their groups sizes and don't exhibit the sort of behavior you were ranting about and it doesn't do any good because no matter how "responsible" the players are, the game's servers can't handle it (and this isn't just PvP, when I am by myself in vMA, the game's performance is garbage by the end).

Some pop locked evenings have minimal lag and are enjoyable, others are pure cancer. The difference between those evenings are entirely player behaviour.
If you think it's a 100% lost cause, and that there's absolutely nothing you can do, then I'll stop here, otherwise I'm just asking for common sense from people who are capable of it.

I don't think it's a lost cause. I and others do what we can to make the best of it. Not all guilds are the same and your posts casually lumped them together.

FakeZavos

Irylia wrote: »

Have players take more damage for stacking
12/16/20/24/^+

25/35/45/55/65% more dmg

Or release a competitive arenas XvX with an actual mmr leaderboard + “season(quarterly)” rewards (cosmetics/title) for those with a group in the top 5.
Unique rewards for #1

Then I don’t care about cyro

This will only make things easier for ballgroups, same as removing AoEcaps

raviour

dtsharples wrote: »

Time Stop + Negate + several Inevitable Detonations.

But that would take co-ordination. And these ball groups only fight unorganised Soloers for the majority of the time, so its a moot point really.

Totally agree and that was the point of the thread, kinda just looking for more ideas to counter them or make people think outside of the ball.

I was also try to distinguish balls from organized raids. They are 2 different group playstyles and everyone seems to be a lazy ball machine now. I only get organized raids with 6 friends in text these days.

Royals were led by Your Royal Highness and he did 12-16 man raids, we would have a magblade scout, a raid lead and a map lead, nothing serious but we would split and do jobs like a military raid, stam operating siege in nifty positions and mag using their skills.. We were equal vs Zerg Squad with less number because we were utilizing anti-ball group mechanics.

Your average Cyrod has no clue what to do vs the balls and this thread is/was hopefuly an education for some (including myself).

Master_Kas

raviour wrote: »

dtsharples wrote: »

Time Stop + Negate + several Inevitable Detonations.

But that would take co-ordination. And these ball groups only fight unorganised Soloers for the majority of the time, so its a moot point really.

Totally agree and that was the point of the thread, kinda just looking for more ideas to counter them or make people think outside of the ball.

I was also try to distinguish balls from organized raids. They are 2 different group playstyles and everyone seems to be a lazy ball machine now. I only get organized raids with 6 friends in text these days.

Royals were led by Your Royal Highness and he did 12-16 man raids, we would have a magblade scout, a raid lead and a map lead, nothing serious but we would split and do jobs like a military raid, stam operating siege in nifty positions and mag using their skills.. We were equal vs Zerg Squad with less number because we were utilizing anti-ball group mechanics.

Your average Cyrod has no clue what to do vs the balls and this thread is/was hopefuly an education for some (including myself).

@Sanct16

BohnT

raviour wrote: »

dtsharples wrote: »

Time Stop + Negate + several Inevitable Detonations.

But that would take co-ordination. And these ball groups only fight unorganised Soloers for the majority of the time, so its a moot point really.

Totally agree and that was the point of the thread, kinda just looking for more ideas to counter them or make people think outside of the ball.

I was also try to distinguish balls from organized raids. They are 2 different group playstyles and everyone seems to be a lazy ball machine now. I only get organized raids with 6 friends in text these days.

Royals were led by Your Royal Highness and he did 12-16 man raids, we would have a magblade scout, a raid lead and a map lead, nothing serious but we would split and do jobs like a military raid, stam operating siege in nifty positions and mag using their skills.. We were equal vs Zerg Squad with less number because we were utilizing anti-ball group mechanics.

Your average Cyrod has no clue what to do vs the balls and this thread is/was hopefuly an education for some (including myself).

Talk about losing touch with reality

Rin_Senya

@Sanct16 I think we miss a dedicated magblade scout in our raid! I nominate Kredo or Marsy!

Sanct16

I think we miss 50 meatshield pugs so we can spread behind them and operate siege.

MLRPZ

@raviour man I wish you had a recorded fight of you outnumbered by us to prove your point
But we both know it never happened

Rin_Senya

Well we all know that pugs just add extra challenge! VD proccers everywhere around!

FakeZavos

Maybe he is talking about their group being more effective in playing the campain, in that case he might be right. But if he is talking about sheer firepower GvG I highly doubt his group ever won

p00tx

I get the frustration of running into a group when you're soloing, and getting mowed down, but this (the original) post seems a bit excessive in the vitriol department. Sometimes I like to solo, and it's kinda nice to move where I want, at my own pace, with no other goal in mind than making some AP and ranking up.

Sometimes though, and more often than not, I prefer to run in a highly coordinated group with my PvP guild, who have become very close friends of mine. The game contains mechanics and opportunities to run in groups, so it seems logical to do so. It doesn't seem any less valid than any other playstyle.

That being said, why penalize people for having friends? The anger directed at those who posses human social abilities seems somehow misplaced and unnecessary.

bmannb16_ESO

No real use for ball groups, most farm inexperienced players all the while running the cheese builds. But the worst part is the extreme lag they bring to area.

pmn100b16_ESO

What would happen if a group of say about 5 mag sorcerors got together, doned VD and all simply spammed magicka Det and wrath at these ball groups?

MLRPZ

probably nothing would happen

dtsharples

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

What would happen if a group of say about 5 mag sorcerors got together, doned VD and all simply spammed magicka Det and wrath at these ball groups?

Multiple Fears, Inevitable Detonation, Negate / Timestop + some co-ordination.
Co-ordination being the most important.

That or chain the Healers and nuke them.....or knock them off the walls

TequilaFire

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

What would happen if a group of say about 5 mag sorcerors got together, doned VD and all simply spammed magicka Det and wrath at these ball groups?

That is situation normal isn't it?

Biro123

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

What would happen if a group of say about 5 mag sorcerors got together, doned VD and all simply spammed magicka Det and wrath at these ball groups?

Mostly purged, and what's left healed since they have the health to take burst.

MLRPZ

on their own the wouldn't be annoying, they could deal damage if they were zergsurfing but that's mostly that

pmn100b16_ESO

Biro123 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

What would happen if a group of say about 5 mag sorcerors got together, doned VD and all simply spammed magicka Det and wrath at these ball groups?

Mostly purged, and what's left healed since they have the health to take burst.

But if they're purged don't they all go off at once?

EDIT: I'm not thinking the limit to purging effects so I guess they'll be purge detonated in comfy parts. That's shite

TequilaFire wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

What would happen if a group of say about 5 mag sorcerors got together, doned VD and all simply spammed magicka Det and wrath at these ball groups?

That is situation normal isn't it?

Not on PC EU no. When I can be bothered to hang around in the lag its usually just me spamming it at the back next to the guy doing light bow attacks.

IxSTALKERxI

If you want to annoy enemy ball groups, convince every player in your faction to wear Meridia Blessed armor, just stand at the gate for a few weeks handing out 20m gold worth of free sets along with complimentary scattershot catapults.

You're welcome.

Sky_WK

raviour wrote: »

This needs putting out there. I don't ever see them doing anything productive or fun and a solo gets better AP gain. I think they just do it for attention...

How many times you read... "**(random generic ball-group) at *** (random generic keep)" ?

Its like some players get kicks out of knowing which ball-group is which and that people will think they are cool for mention them (people use nameplates too, not me but ball group = easy AP to a solo so I remember some @names). Don't big-up these ball zergs, they are totally useless and are just trolling newbies or AD (AD are almost all newbies in Vivkek(EU) coz of morning caps). They feed off of undeserved hype.

So I guess the point is, what is the point of these portable Rugby scrums that just hold onto each others crotches and throw the ball backwards if they ever get it? Doesn't seem very progressive for 'wannabe' end-gamers and takes no skill what-so-ever.

I don't think they are logical, Royals were a very effective 12 man raid that equalled 20 man ZS but we were not ball, just had an inventive leader. Black Swords seem to be similar but never ran with them. AD and EP do not have this stuff.

As a PuG lead we can contain ZS, UF, DE, NL, Big Boss, Saras or anyone with 1/5 numbers because they are all so predictable and DC don't like to play like we were 7 year olds chasing a football so we know how to AvAvA with least pop.

Like a lot of things in life its like genitalia. Its not how big your zergs or balls are... Its what you do with them that counts....

*note..... I don't hate ball-groups I just feel sorry for them.

They win campaigns.

Etaniel

Sky_WK wrote: »

raviour wrote: »

This needs putting out there. I don't ever see them doing anything productive or fun and a solo gets better AP gain. I think they just do it for attention...

How many times you read... "**(random generic ball-group) at *** (random generic keep)" ?

Its like some players get kicks out of knowing which ball-group is which and that people will think they are cool for mention them (people use nameplates too, not me but ball group = easy AP to a solo so I remember some @names). Don't big-up these ball zergs, they are totally useless and are just trolling newbies or AD (AD are almost all newbies in Vivkek(EU) coz of morning caps). They feed off of undeserved hype.

So I guess the point is, what is the point of these portable Rugby scrums that just hold onto each others crotches and throw the ball backwards if they ever get it? Doesn't seem very progressive for 'wannabe' end-gamers and takes no skill what-so-ever.

I don't think they are logical, Royals were a very effective 12 man raid that equalled 20 man ZS but we were not ball, just had an inventive leader. Black Swords seem to be similar but never ran with them. AD and EP do not have this stuff.

As a PuG lead we can contain ZS, UF, DE, NL, Big Boss, Saras or anyone with 1/5 numbers because they are all so predictable and DC don't like to play like we were 7 year olds chasing a football so we know how to AvAvA with least pop.

Like a lot of things in life its like genitalia. Its not how big your zergs or balls are... Its what you do with them that counts....

*note..... I don't hate ball-groups I just feel sorry for them.

They win campaigns.

nah, nightcappers (who play when their opponents are low pop and they are high pop, no matter the time zone) win campaigns.

Xai_Zi

Etaniel wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

The only way to beat cooperation and coordination in this game is to punish those things. Removing a skill or making little nerfs here and there won't change anything. As always, I remain confused by people who see effective groups and get upset rather than impressed.

To be honest, I don't think people are mad at their efficiency.
I'd even dare say that their group format is not the most efficient in a lot of occasions. But then, efficiency scales on what you're aiming to do.

What pisses me off about ball groups is when they act irresponsibly.
Like 2 days ago, their was a tri faction fight at roebeck on vivec EU to try and dethrone AD during prime time. That single fight made the entire server lag, our group knew it was going to be painful so we went to faregyl to try and trigger some ADs so that the roe siege might be over faster.
That roebeck fight lasted over an hour because one red group was farming pugs inside the keep, and was unable to finish the fight and capture. I say unable, but it's most likely unwilling as they were probably having fun farming and they had the perfect situation, last emp keep so yellows would commit 100% to the defense, and the dc zerg was too stupid to capture the rest of the undefended map. So essentially that red group made the whole server unplayable for an hour. Our group logged off because we don't have dedicated healing spring spammers so it's actually game breaking when you need to break free 4 times before you can heal yourself.

Now some will say that's its the DC zerg's fault for stacking up when they could have left the EP capture, to which I respond that the organized groups are the ones with the brains, they should be the ones to act accordingly, and not the light attack spamming cp 140 who has no clue what's going on.
They could have either gone for a fast dethrone and leave to farm AD at their remaining keeps, or let DC capture and farm them afterwards, but no, they had to farm the keep for 1 hour because the AP/hour ratio was more important than having a playable server. And that's when and why ball groups trigger me the most.

Honestly, where do these ball groups even find the gall to act irresponsibility in a video game. If they are going to participate in an activity, designed to be an escape from the responsibilities of real life, they should at least have the bloody decency to play responsibly as a ball group and do what other people want them to bloody do.

VaranisArano

Xai_Zi wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

The only way to beat cooperation and coordination in this game is to punish those things. Removing a skill or making little nerfs here and there won't change anything. As always, I remain confused by people who see effective groups and get upset rather than impressed.

To be honest, I don't think people are mad at their efficiency.
I'd even dare say that their group format is not the most efficient in a lot of occasions. But then, efficiency scales on what you're aiming to do.

What pisses me off about ball groups is when they act irresponsibly.
Like 2 days ago, their was a tri faction fight at roebeck on vivec EU to try and dethrone AD during prime time. That single fight made the entire server lag, our group knew it was going to be painful so we went to faregyl to try and trigger some ADs so that the roe siege might be over faster.
That roebeck fight lasted over an hour because one red group was farming pugs inside the keep, and was unable to finish the fight and capture. I say unable, but it's most likely unwilling as they were probably having fun farming and they had the perfect situation, last emp keep so yellows would commit 100% to the defense, and the dc zerg was too stupid to capture the rest of the undefended map. So essentially that red group made the whole server unplayable for an hour. Our group logged off because we don't have dedicated healing spring spammers so it's actually game breaking when you need to break free 4 times before you can heal yourself.

Now some will say that's its the DC zerg's fault for stacking up when they could have left the EP capture, to which I respond that the organized groups are the ones with the brains, they should be the ones to act accordingly, and not the light attack spamming cp 140 who has no clue what's going on.
They could have either gone for a fast dethrone and leave to farm AD at their remaining keeps, or let DC capture and farm them afterwards, but no, they had to farm the keep for 1 hour because the AP/hour ratio was more important than having a playable server. And that's when and why ball groups trigger me the most.

Honestly, where do these ball groups even find the gall to act irresponsibility in a video game. If they are going to participate in an activity, designed to be an escape from the responsibilities of real life, they should at least have the bloody decency to play responsibly as a ball group and do what other people want them to bloody do.

Right? Like, they should obey the chain of command and listen to those 5-star Zone Generals, right? And they should definitely play on the enemies' terms, not their own. That's how this works, right?

Druid40

When you see a ball group pull back, expect a big push and ultimate dump within the next 15 seconds. The best counter I've seen is for pug healers to do a healing ultimate during the dump. Every pug AOEs the group down. A few die then more and more die. Ball group gone. It's that sudden rush and dump that usually destroys pug zergs and solo players.

P.S. There's nothing wrong with ball groups. They're just doing their thing. I do not get the massive anger in this game about group playstyles. Unless they're 12+ deep in stealth just bombing solo players, why is this even an issue?