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Well, I'm not afraid to say it... Weapon swapping is unrealistic and the combat system needs help.
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ilikepickles✭✭✭Combat really does need an overhaul. Becoming a human macro machine and just repeating a loop is the most boring thing ever. Haven't been touching the game lately because of it.
I'd rather do literally anything else.2 -
ManwithBeard9✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You know what, Knowledge is right, if playing on console is so difficult, they should just stop supporting concoles and focus on PC. Would make the game much healthier and better.4 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭The combat system in the Elder Scrolls Online is in desperate need of an overhaul. You know it, I know it, we all know it.
In this thread I would like to address the first problem with the combat system and that is weapon swapping.
First of all, I know this is a high fantasy game but it does follow some semblance of reality. Our characters move like people do and they can only sprint for so long.
So, it would seem that the game tries to be similar to reality in some areas.
Weapon swapping is a problem in ESO and it is also unrealistic. It is also a departure from how other Elder Scrolls games worked. It is more of a copy of Guild Wars 2.
In Skyrim, if you wanted to swap weapons, you had to go through a menu or bring up your favorite list. There was no hot swapping of weaponry.
This is an example of how clunky it was to swap weapons in Skyrim.
https://youtu.be/fTN6m_XDZKM?t=59s
Moreover, there is no need for us to be swapping weapons. What we need is a larger range of abilities to use and a single weapon. The idea of someone running around with several weapons and instantaneously swapping from a greatsword to a sword and shield is ridiculous and is not something that is truly enjoyable. ESO has several similarities to Guild Wars and perhaps the developers thought we'd enjoy this concept since GW2 was somewhat popular.
In the first suggested step of a combat overhaul I propose that we go one of two routes. The first is to have swappable skills instead of swappable weapons. In this system you would have a single weapon and just simply swap skills. I do not like this idea but it is the least invasive.
What SHOULD be done is the skill bar should simply be extended to accompany more skills and abilities. This would add additional complexity and skill to the game.
Please let me know how you feel about this first suggested overhaul idea.
Hahaha , yep they did screw the pooch. They went for the newer is better design philosophy. It does not translate well into a good group combat experience it propagates one playstyle. Unfortunately they are watering their original concepts down into a very arcade style combat system. They won't overhaul it but a good start would be to remove the CP system and overhaul that into working system0 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭The reason it was done the way it was is due to the limitations of consoles. It creates another layer of complexity compared to more traditional MMOs in order to allow consoles to actually play the game without special setups.
IMO having every ability available and simply auto-swapping to the weapon appropriate to the ability is far better, but everyone here would complain that it's too easy. Same thing goes for *gasp* actually unlocking the cursor so you can click abilities.
Basically, everyone who thought other older MMOs were too easy came here, because combat at the highest level is hilariously difficult. If you describe bar swapping or animation cancelling to a WoW player, they will actually vomit a little. Trust me.
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Kitty_Quietly✭✭✭Bar swapping is interesting, and I wouldn’t want it taken out without a really good replacement. I say this as somebody who is horrable at the dps stuff. I can’t do rotations well because I get distracted by nearly anything. I can’t fault the game for that. It is fun to switch weapons now and then.
It would be cool to have more skills to choose from to put on the bars, without adding more slots. Maybe someday the skill-lines could just have more stuff to pick from. Not a top prioty. Still would be nice.
The biggest thing I would like someday is skill crafting like the spell crafting in older elder scrolls stuff. Be nice to have a slider that could decide whether to go with the current damage or shrink it down to make it damage over time. Not likely gonna happen. I know it would be complicated to get right. Fun to think about though.0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I was gonna type that lolVaranisArano wrote: »On PC Skyrim, I could assign hotkeys to the Favorites menu and swap weapons or spells with the press of a single button.
Same for Morrowind. Same for Oblivion.
What's that about not being able to swap weapons in previous Elder Scrolls games?
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amir412✭✭✭✭✭
✭The combat system in the Elder Scrolls Online is in desperate need of an overhaul. You know it, I know it, we all know it.
In this thread I would like to address the first problem with the combat system and that is weapon swapping.
First of all, I know this is a high fantasy game but it does follow some semblance of reality. Our characters move like people do and they can only sprint for so long.
So, it would seem that the game tries to be similar to reality in some areas.
Weapon swapping is a problem in ESO and it is also unrealistic. It is also a departure from how other Elder Scrolls games worked. It is more of a copy of Guild Wars 2.
In Skyrim, if you wanted to swap weapons, you had to go through a menu or bring up your favorite list. There was no hot swapping of weaponry.
This is an example of how clunky it was to swap weapons in Skyrim.
Moreover, there is no need for us to be swapping weapons. What we need is a larger range of abilities to use and a single weapon. The idea of someone running around with several weapons and instantaneously swapping from a greatsword to a sword and shield is ridiculous and is not something that is truly enjoyable. ESO has several similarities to Guild Wars and perhaps the developers thought we'd enjoy this concept since GW2 was somewhat popular.
In the first suggested step of a combat overhaul I propose that we go one of two routes. The first is to have swappable skills instead of swappable weapons. In this system you would have a single weapon and just simply swap skills. I do not like this idea but it is the least invasive.
What SHOULD be done is the skill bar should simply be extended to accompany more skills and abilities. This would add additional complexity and skill to the game.
Please let me know how you feel about this first suggested overhaul idea.
WTF is all that nonsense about weapon swapping? Do u struggle with ur rotation?
How would pepole be able to DPS if u want them to swap weapons via menu? like are u even reading what ure writing?
This is not Skyrim, and being able to use more than single weapon with any class ability, how u want, with any sets u want, is the reason why pepole stick with this game even tho its laggy and buggy as hell, pretty much insane diversty (put sloads aside). This is one of the best combat system in MMO genre, and u want to destroy it cuz its not like skyrim? or reality? lols? There are a freaking talking cats and lizards and ure talking about reality.Edited by amir412 on June 24, 2018 9:50PM0 -
ManwithBeard9✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The combat system in the Elder Scrolls Online is in desperate need of an overhaul. You know it, I know it, we all know it.
In this thread I would like to address the first problem with the combat system and that is weapon swapping.
First of all, I know this is a high fantasy game but it does follow some semblance of reality. Our characters move like people do and they can only sprint for so long.
So, it would seem that the game tries to be similar to reality in some areas.
Weapon swapping is a problem in ESO and it is also unrealistic. It is also a departure from how other Elder Scrolls games worked. It is more of a copy of Guild Wars 2.
In Skyrim, if you wanted to swap weapons, you had to go through a menu or bring up your favorite list. There was no hot swapping of weaponry.
This is an example of how clunky it was to swap weapons in Skyrim.
Moreover, there is no need for us to be swapping weapons. What we need is a larger range of abilities to use and a single weapon. The idea of someone running around with several weapons and instantaneously swapping from a greatsword to a sword and shield is ridiculous and is not something that is truly enjoyable. ESO has several similarities to Guild Wars and perhaps the developers thought we'd enjoy this concept since GW2 was somewhat popular.
In the first suggested step of a combat overhaul I propose that we go one of two routes. The first is to have swappable skills instead of swappable weapons. In this system you would have a single weapon and just simply swap skills. I do not like this idea but it is the least invasive.
What SHOULD be done is the skill bar should simply be extended to accompany more skills and abilities. This would add additional complexity and skill to the game.
Please let me know how you feel about this first suggested overhaul idea.
WTF is all that nonsense about weapon swapping? Do u struggle with ur rotation?
How would pepole be able to DPS if u want them to swap weapons via menu? like are u even reading what ure writing?
This is not Skyrim, and being able to use more than single weapon with any class ability is the reason why pepole stick with this game even tho its laggy and buggy as hell. This is one of the best combat system in MMO genre, and u want to destroy it cuz its not like skyrim? lols?
I'm incredibly happy this game is almost nothing like Skyrim.0 -
amir412✭✭✭✭✭
✭ManwithBeard9 wrote: »The combat system in the Elder Scrolls Online is in desperate need of an overhaul. You know it, I know it, we all know it.
In this thread I would like to address the first problem with the combat system and that is weapon swapping.
First of all, I know this is a high fantasy game but it does follow some semblance of reality. Our characters move like people do and they can only sprint for so long.
So, it would seem that the game tries to be similar to reality in some areas.
Weapon swapping is a problem in ESO and it is also unrealistic. It is also a departure from how other Elder Scrolls games worked. It is more of a copy of Guild Wars 2.
In Skyrim, if you wanted to swap weapons, you had to go through a menu or bring up your favorite list. There was no hot swapping of weaponry.
This is an example of how clunky it was to swap weapons in Skyrim.
Moreover, there is no need for us to be swapping weapons. What we need is a larger range of abilities to use and a single weapon. The idea of someone running around with several weapons and instantaneously swapping from a greatsword to a sword and shield is ridiculous and is not something that is truly enjoyable. ESO has several similarities to Guild Wars and perhaps the developers thought we'd enjoy this concept since GW2 was somewhat popular.
In the first suggested step of a combat overhaul I propose that we go one of two routes. The first is to have swappable skills instead of swappable weapons. In this system you would have a single weapon and just simply swap skills. I do not like this idea but it is the least invasive.
What SHOULD be done is the skill bar should simply be extended to accompany more skills and abilities. This would add additional complexity and skill to the game.
Please let me know how you feel about this first suggested overhaul idea.
WTF is all that nonsense about weapon swapping? Do u struggle with ur rotation?
How would pepole be able to DPS if u want them to swap weapons via menu? like are u even reading what ure writing?
This is not Skyrim, and being able to use more than single weapon with any class ability is the reason why pepole stick with this game even tho its laggy and buggy as hell. This is one of the best combat system in MMO genre, and u want to destroy it cuz its not like skyrim? lols?
I'm incredibly happy this game is almost nothing like Skyrim.
The combat in Skyrim is minecraft like compared to ESO, Pepole need to let go.0 -
Cously✭✭✭✭✭
✭Weapon swap should be removed from the game, it's unfair to big latency players and frustrating for low latency players during lag situations (cyro peak time). Game would display two ability bars, one for main hand, one from off hand, similar how is done in Archeage. No swap needed, just activate it 1 to do a two handed weapon move and shift+1 to do a bow move. That could easily be adapted into consoles. I played Street Fighter on Mega Driver, the controller was far simpler than what we have to do, but you could use the buttoms together to make combos. So it is possible.0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bar swapping? BAR swapping! How bout they change the game to where as soon as you log in EVERYBODY dies. Lol.0 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ilikepickles wrote: »Combat really does need an overhaul. Becoming a human macro machine and just repeating a loop is the most boring thing ever. Haven't been touching the game lately because of it.
I'd rather do literally anything else.
Welcome to MMO activate ability combat?0 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I love a good bit of realism, but if you are that concerned with it just use the same weapon on both bars and set your second outfit to match your first.
That way all that really happens is your skill bar changes and a little stutter.
Also i recall in skyrim you could swap weapons at a click, or between magic and weapons at a click.
I dont think it needs changing in ESO though i like the skill system
In Skyrim you can pause the game mid-weapon-swing, go into your inventory and drink 30 potions, change out weapons, and adjust the difficulty setting, all while watching a guide on YouTube while drinking coffee, then unpause the game and one-shot a saber-tooth cat.
I know Skyrim was pretty awesome wasn't it.
I love Skyrim! I still play it on occasion. Same with all of Bethesda’s game really. I just wouldn’t categorize them as having “realistic” combat, lol.
I Never wanted realistic combat but skyrim was superior to the combat we have here..1 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Pixel_Zealot wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »Don't fix what isn't broken, the weapon swapping system is fine. We have had it for years now and all is well with it.
Just because you're used to it, doesn't make it good
the thing your not looking at if they increase our ability bar size theyll implement cooldowns to our abilities which will make some things impossible and nobody will want it or like it. theyll kill the game because of something we want.
I'm fine with cooldowns if it means i don't have to deal with bar swapping.. and i get more skills..
I honestly hate ESO skillbars, its the most restrictive mmorpg i've ever played.0 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭They can copy DC Universe Online's 8 skills on the bar using the triggers(or a keyboard button) as modifier buttons to choose which skill on the bar to use, left trigger for left side of the bar and right trigger for right side of the bar and X/Y/B/A(or 1/2/3/4) for the positions on each side of the skills.
DCUO may have a much more boring world because of lack of unique character, but it has far better combat.0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think there are more important matters that need to be adressed regarding the combat system.
Like..
Get rid of this stupid soft-lock and give us proper action-based combat.
It's not like this is impossible. Has been done before... even before ESO came out or was even announced. (e.g. Tera)
I want my sword to actually have to hit the target in order to make damage.
Not just "be close enough and look in the general direction"
And while i realize that this is no easy task so far into the games lifespan, it's not like ZeniMax hasn't redone some system of the games in the past already.
Staves are the only weapons that are actually fun atm. imo. (Lightning Staff ftw.)
Yes they still lock-on to the target.. but at least the magic actually hits the target.
Anyway.. don't wanna go too much into detail. Time is precious.
But i'm sure you know what i mean.
anyone who plays with > 100 latency knows this will never work.
Just trying to land a dawn breaker on someone when you have 300 latency is rolling the dice, never mind actually "connecting" with a sword strike.Shad0wfire99 wrote: »Elves, Cat People, Lizard People, Deadra, and wizards seem pretty unrealistic, too, tbh.
Actually, in a few million years it is completely plausible that the felines could evolve to a higher degree of intelligence and eventually turn into bipeds. It is also possible that a lizard or alligator could evolve to a higher level of intelligence. The daedra I can't say will happen.
I don't say this out of disrespect toward you, but if you're going to base this reply on the number of whatever's you got on the post.... you better be glad there's no "disagree" or "downvote" option in these forums... I don't see you favoring well in that system.
The posts speaking out against me count as downvotes. There are clearly more down votes than there are agrees. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that I do have people that agree with me.
This would eradicate the idea that I am just some tone deaf person that everyone detests on the forums as some have said. It also destroys the argument in its entirety.
I don't believe it would matter if there were zero people agreeing with you. You've showed your persistence, and I'm sure nothing would or should stop you from speaking your mind. But you're also not going to prove or disprove any opinions that you're tone deaf, nor would you be anywhere close to eradicating such opinions.
Okay, lets take this a step further because you're beginning to walk the line of deeply offensive statements that are likely not acceptable in most places.
I will now ask you what you mean by "tone deaf".
Are you saying I am mentally disabled?
Are you saying I am handicap in some capacity?
Please do not be afraid to adequately describe your opinion.
Your use of "tone deaf" is obviously not the literal definition which would be: "(of a person) unable to perceive differences of musical pitch accurately.
Clearly we're not speaking about music at this time so I am wondering what you mean? Is this your clever way of telling me I am handicap indirectly?
What? No way man, I'm sorry if it came off like that. I was literally just quoting the term you've used multiple times in responses. I have no idea if it means something more offensive. I definitely didn't mean to be deeply offensive, I was just trying to argue your point with logic. The only offensive things I said were just directly quoted from what you said. Again, I'm really sorry I said something that was taken that offensively.
But you stated " But you're also not going to prove or disprove any opinions that you're tone deaf, nor would you be anywhere close to eradicating such opinions. "
So, what do you mean by tone deaf?
calling someone "tone deaf" is an idiom which you well know, referring to the fact that you're ignoring very valid points made by many people in pursuit of your agenda.
"Just as a literally tone-deaf person is unable to comprehend the differences between musical notes, a metaphorically tone-deaf person is unable to comprehend the different facets/nuances of a given situation. A statement such a person makes might also be described as tone-deaf"
Your feigned ignorance of this in an attempt to put BRCOURTN on the defensive IS offensive. Stop it.7 -
FR0STDEE✭✭✭✭This isn't "skyrim online". Stop trying to play it like skyrim and you'll enjoy it more.0 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭The combat system in the Elder Scrolls Online is in desperate need of an overhaul. You know it, I know it, we all know it.
In this thread I would like to address the first problem with the combat system and that is weapon swapping.
First of all, I know this is a high fantasy game but it does follow some semblance of reality. Our characters move like people do and they can only sprint for so long.
So, it would seem that the game tries to be similar to reality in some areas.
Weapon swapping is a problem in ESO and it is also unrealistic. It is also a departure from how other Elder Scrolls games worked. It is more of a copy of Guild Wars 2.
In Skyrim, if you wanted to swap weapons, you had to go through a menu or bring up your favorite list. There was no hot swapping of weaponry.
This is an example of how clunky it was to swap weapons in Skyrim.https://youtu.be/fTN6m_XDZKM?t=59s
Moreover, there is no need for us to be swapping weapons. What we need is a larger range of abilities to use and a single weapon. The idea of someone running around with several weapons and instantaneously swapping from a greatsword to a sword and shield is ridiculous and is not something that is truly enjoyable. ESO has several similarities to Guild Wars and perhaps the developers thought we'd enjoy this concept since GW2 was somewhat popular.
In the first suggested step of a combat overhaul I propose that we go one of two routes. The first is to have swappable skills instead of swappable weapons. In this system you would have a single weapon and just simply swap skills. I do not like this idea but it is the least invasive.
What SHOULD be done is the skill bar should simply be extended to accompany more skills and abilities. This would add additional complexity and skill to the game.
Please let me know how you feel about this first suggested overhaul idea.
1) This isn't Skyrim.
2) In previous titles you carried around an absurd amount of loot without any of it visible. Your claim it being unrealistic, well it's unrealistic even if you carry and switch to it in your inventory. Further more, the item already is in your inventory you can think of the weapon swap as a hotkey.
3) Weapon swapping introduces a different level of competitiveness to the combat system. The amount of DPS and optimization we can pull off in this game is insanely techy. Anyone who's played games competitively knows certain games have techniques to that are needed to play good. Take melee for example, there is a ton of different techniques to pull off in that game which combined together help you perform on a top level. This is something a game like an MMO needs to keep things competitive. Your proposal is totally backwards when it comes to this game. Less abilities but more options in how you perform combat is what makes this game the best MMO on the market imo. Other games like WoW where it's all about the abilities you perform and less about constant movement / real time reactions are why I could never stick with those games.
4) More skills and less combat options is not more complex nor is it more skillful. You want to make the game more casual and throw in less real-time intensive combat properties. I'd rather have everyone constantly bar swapping to keep all their DoTs up than have people spamming a billion different spells slowly.
Terrible suggestion, and it's not an overhaul.Master Debater2 -
SHADOW2KK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Love the clickbait title OP
The entire game is unrealistic btw.Once I was a lamb, playing in a green field. Then the wolves came. Now I am an eagle and I fly in a different universe.
Been taking heads since TeS 3 Morrowind..
Been enjoying PvP tears since 2014
LvL 50 - Dragon Knight EP [PC-EU] = Illuvutar = Ex The Wabbajack = (Stam DK)
LvL 50 - Night Blade DC [PC-EU] = Legendary Blades = Evil Ninja/Dueller = (StamBlade)
LvL 50 - Sorcerer DC [PC-EU] = Daemon Lord = (Mag Sorc)
LvL 50 - Dragon Knight DC [PC-EU] = Khal-Bladez = (Mag DK)
LvL 50 - Dragon Knight DC [PC-EU] = Tenakha Khan = (Stam DK)
LvL 50 - Templar DC [PC-EU]] = Blades The Disgruntled = (Stamplar)
LvL 50 - Night Blade DC [PC-EU] = Ghost Blades = (Assassin)
LvL 50 - Night Blade DC [PC-EU] = Malekith The Shadow = (Mag NB)
LvL 50 - Warden DC [PC-EU] = Crimson Blades = (Stamden)
Guild Master of The Bringers Of The Storm.
Harrods
Member Of The Old Guard
PC Closed Betas 2013
PC Mastah Race
Anook Page anook.com/shadow2kk
Been playing since Beta and Early Access0 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »Don't fix what isn't broken, the weapon swapping system is fine. We have had it for years now and all is well with it.
oh it is huh? maybe if you're not playing competitively. I actually like the system, but lag destroys it.0 -
Shad0wfire99✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »Elves, Cat People, Lizard People, Deadra, and wizards seem pretty unrealistic, too, tbh.
Actually, in a few million years it is completely plausible that the felines could evolve to a higher degree of intelligence and eventually turn into bipeds. It is also possible that a lizard or alligator could evolve to a higher level of intelligence. The daedra I can't say will happen.
I don't say this out of disrespect toward you, but if you're going to base this reply on the number of whatever's you got on the post.... you better be glad there's no "disagree" or "downvote" option in these forums... I don't see you favoring well in that system.
The posts speaking out against me count as downvotes. There are clearly more down votes than there are agrees. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that I do have people that agree with me.
This would eradicate the idea that I am just some tone deaf person that everyone detests on the forums as some have said. It also destroys the argument in its entirety.
I don't believe it would matter if there were zero people agreeing with you. You've showed your persistence, and I'm sure nothing would or should stop you from speaking your mind. But you're also not going to prove or disprove any opinions that you're tone deaf, nor would you be anywhere close to eradicating such opinions.
Okay, lets take this a step further because you're beginning to walk the line of deeply offensive statements that are likely not acceptable in most places.
I will now ask you what you mean by "tone deaf".
Are you saying I am mentally disabled?
Are you saying I am handicap in some capacity?
Please do not be afraid to adequately describe your opinion.
Your use of "tone deaf" is obviously not the literal definition which would be: "(of a person) unable to perceive differences of musical pitch accurately.
Clearly we're not speaking about music at this time so I am wondering what you mean? Is this your clever way of telling me I am handicap indirectly?
I think you answered it yourself.
XBox NA0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Weapon swapping is a problem in ESO and it is also unrealistic.
Not that it matters, but the unrealistic thing about weapon swapping is that we don't have more slots to pick from. Historically, infantry soldiers would frequently go into battle with multiple weapons. A primary weapon (usually a polearm), a sidearm (this could be a sword or handaxe depending on the era), a backup weapon (such as a knife). So, restricting us to only two weapons is unrealistic.
1