Well, I'm not afraid to say it... Weapon swapping is unrealistic and the combat system needs help.

Knowledge · June 2018

The combat system in the Elder Scrolls Online is in desperate need of an overhaul. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

In this thread I would like to address the first problem with the combat system and that is weapon swapping.

First of all, I know this is a high fantasy game but it does follow some semblance of reality. Our characters move like people do and they can only sprint for so long.

So, it would seem that the game tries to be similar to reality in some areas.

Weapon swapping is a problem in ESO and it is also unrealistic. It is also a departure from how other Elder Scrolls games worked. It is more of a copy of Guild Wars 2.

In Skyrim, if you wanted to swap weapons, you had to go through a menu or bring up your favorite list. There was no hot swapping of weaponry.

This is an example of how clunky it was to swap weapons in Skyrim.

https://youtu.be/fTN6m_XDZKM?t=59s

Moreover, there is no need for us to be swapping weapons. What we need is a larger range of abilities to use and a single weapon. The idea of someone running around with several weapons and instantaneously swapping from a greatsword to a sword and shield is ridiculous and is not something that is truly enjoyable. ESO has several similarities to Guild Wars and perhaps the developers thought we'd enjoy this concept since GW2 was somewhat popular.

In the first suggested step of a combat overhaul I propose that we go one of two routes. The first is to have swappable skills instead of swappable weapons. In this system you would have a single weapon and just simply swap skills. I do not like this idea but it is the least invasive.

What SHOULD be done is the skill bar should simply be extended to accompany more skills and abilities. This would add additional complexity and skill to the game.

Please let me know how you feel about this first suggested overhaul idea.

Royaji · June 2018

Consoles.

Knowledge · June 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Consoles.

Final Fantasy XIV is on console and has dozens of abilities. I'm only asking for a few more.

TequilaFire · June 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Consoles.

Wrong, but it would make it more like every other vanilla MMO.
I would like all of my skills on one bar though.

paulsimonps · June 2018

Don't fix what isn't broken, the weapon swapping system is fine. We have had it for years now and all is well with it.

Royaji · June 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Consoles.

Final Fantasy XIV is on console and has dozens of abilities. I'm only asking for a few more.

So you propose a complete change for the whole control scheme 4 years into the game lifetime? Yeah, let me guess how well will that sit with most of console players.

You are not asking for a few more. You are asking for 6 extra slots and keybindings.

And limiting players to one weapon will completely destroy a lot of builds. Stam will be nonexistent since you don't have enough stam skills with only one weapon. MagSorc will be thrilled to find out that they now have to choose between a heal (from resto) and a spammable (from destro) for PvP. Ice-tanking will be officially dead. Healers can forget about ele drain. Do I need to keep going?

AhPook_Is_Here · June 2018

I don't get it, you don't think throwing bombs at your feet and killing everyone around you is immersive? I am very immersed by my fiery disco lights and glitter bombs that level all who stand to close to me (except for me and my buddies).

Tyrobag · June 2018

Don't be silly, everything works fine as is. theres no reason to make eso one of those dumb games that lest you just slot all of you're abilities at once.

The only thing that might be nice for weapon swapping would be if we could see both equipped weapons at once (add an additional placement for each sheathing location for backbar) as a toggleable option.

Also: you already can effectively swap only abilities, just equip an identical weapon on each bar.

Apache_Kid · June 2018

You're just trying to be contrarian to stir up the pot.

There is literally magic spells, ghost mounts, fire mounts, our characters have no bodily needs, there are talking cat people and lizard people and green people and you are worried about the unrealistic weapon swapping? Why? I think its rude how people troll you all the time but you honestly bring it on yourself with dumb stuff like this.

VaranisArano · June 2018

On PC Skyrim, I could assign hotkeys to the Favorites menu and swap weapons or spells with the press of a single button.

Same for Morrowind. Same for Oblivion.

What's that about not being able to swap weapons in previous Elder Scrolls games?

Knowledge · June 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

On PC Skyrim, I could assign hotkeys to the Favorites menu and swap weapons or spells with the press of a single button.

Same for Morrowind. Same for Oblivion.

What's that about not being able to swap weapons in previous Elder Scrolls games?

Consoles.

Sylosi · June 2018

If you are bothered about what is realistic then why are you playing a game without permadeath?

Iccotak · June 2018

There actually is a function in Skyrim to assign certain weapons to a number on the keyboard to switch without using the favorite menu.
Press 1 and you pull up your sword and board
Press 2 for the bow
Press 3 for the spells

So swapping weapons has already been a thing

Knowledge wrote: »

What SHOULD be done is the skill bar should simply be extended to accompany more skills and abilities. This would add additional complexity and skill to the game.

No

Yinmaigao · June 2018

I have been refraining from posting on all of these "knowledge"-able threads lately... but c'mon...

I say this not to be a smartass, but please stop deliberately trying to stir up problems with the community. It just makes people immediately oppose your view point (even though you have made a couple worthwhile points in the past).

If it is an attention seeking thing, online forums is not a healthy place to do so.

I wish you all the best.

evoniee · June 2018

we can assign hotkey onthe favourite. your point is wrong.

the amount of skill we can slot makes every detail on each build more special.
certain person sloting certain skill, makes that person more special and different.

CompM4s · June 2018

In Skyrim on xbox you can use the D-pad to weapon swap pretty quick.

"realistically" you shouldnt able to whistle and have a horse appear out of thin air then ride it 50mph then streak like the flash and shoot your enemy with a meteor out of the sky...

shadowwraith666 · June 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

On PC Skyrim, I could assign hotkeys to the Favorites menu and swap weapons or spells with the press of a single button.

Same for Morrowind. Same for Oblivion.

What's that about not being able to swap weapons in previous Elder Scrolls games?

Consoles.

you could assign weapons to the d-pad buttons in Oblivion on console, in warframe you use the d-pad to switch between pri/sec and melee weapons and r1 (hold) to switch special attack

logarifmik · June 2018

I tend to agree with OP 100%. I don't see any crucial advantages in using two weapons with two skill bars instead of one weapon and two skill bars. I know, though, that almost all current builds will become obsolete with this change, which will lead to a lot of whining from the majority of players, but I think that it'll make gameplay healthier and more logical for the newcomers. Also, I think, that recent two-handed weapon change favors OP's idea.

Iccotak · June 2018

logarifmik wrote: »

I tend to agree with OP 100%. I don't see any crucial advantages in using two weapons with two skill bars instead of one weapon and two skill bars. I know, though, that almost all current builds will become obsolete with this change, which will lead to a lot of whining from the majority of players, but I think that it'll make gameplay healthier and more logical for the newcomers. Also, I think, that recent two-handed weapon change favors OP's idea.

Sounds incredibly limiting and lacking variety.
Also once you understand it, it's certainly not a problem.
Try to make two hander work in the system. Not completely destroy the system

DanteYoda · June 2018

I have to agree i hate the hotbar swap in this game.. i really only use one bar because i honestly can't do the weapon swapping in 300ping with horrible dsync.. As soon as i attempt swapping hotbars in mid battle i die..

And even if i had 20 ping i still couldn't multitask like they want me to.

umagon · June 2018

In another game I play weapon swapping is automatic. It bases your weapon on the type of skill on the hotbar. So for example in eso terms, if a player had a two hander sword and second weapon has a bow; they could put both two hander skills and bow skills on one bar. The weapon would swap automatically to the correct one for that skill when activated.

srfrogg23 · June 2018

Personally, I think the real problem is that chestnuts are lazy. They just lay around and refuse to work!

There, I contributed a completely random rant about nothing of any consequence.

Kuwhar · June 2018

I love a good bit of realism, but if you are that concerned with it just use the same weapon on both bars and set your second outfit to match your first.

That way all that really happens is your skill bar changes and a little stutter.

Also i recall in skyrim you could swap weapons at a click, or between magic and weapons at a click.

I dont think it needs changing in ESO though i like the skill system

logarifmik · June 2018

Iccotak wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

I tend to agree with OP 100%. I don't see any crucial advantages in using two weapons with two skill bars instead of one weapon and two skill bars. I know, though, that almost all current builds will become obsolete with this change, which will lead to a lot of whining from the majority of players, but I think that it'll make gameplay healthier and more logical for the newcomers. Also, I think, that recent two-handed weapon change favors OP's idea.

Sounds incredibly limiting and lacking variety.
Also once you understand it, it's certainly not a problem.
Try to make two hander work in the system. Not completely destroy the system

Variety? Is it still really a thing to use two different sets on different bars? Or do you mean using, for example, sword and shield on the main bar and bow on the back bar?

Both discussed approaches have pros and cons, though it would be great to have an option to use one weapon for both bars. I play a Sorcerer mostly, and from my experience most of the time I need to use identical staves on both bars. Personally, I would like to be able to use one stave instead of "two different copies of the same one", as an option of course, not a universal rule.

UPD: Correction. Staves are not identical, they have different enchants. Two weapons approach makes sense from this point of view.

srfrogg23 · June 2018

Kuwhar wrote: »

I love a good bit of realism, but if you are that concerned with it just use the same weapon on both bars and set your second outfit to match your first.

That way all that really happens is your skill bar changes and a little stutter.

Also i recall in skyrim you could swap weapons at a click, or between magic and weapons at a click.

I dont think it needs changing in ESO though i like the skill system

In Skyrim you can pause the game mid-weapon-swing, go into your inventory and drink 30 potions, change out weapons, and adjust the difficulty setting, all while watching a guide on YouTube while drinking coffee, then unpause the game and one-shot a saber-tooth cat.

starkerealm · June 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

In Skyrim, if you wanted to swap weapons, you had to go through a menu or bring up your favorite list. There was no hot swapping of weaponry.

This is incorrect. You could hotkey weapons in Skyrim, to quick swap between gear. The only oversight of that system was that you could not assign a 1h weapon or spell to your off hand, so it would always be drawn in your right by default. However, if you wanted to swap between a sword and your bow, you could literally do that with one keystroke. This has been true since, at least, Morrowind, and is also present in Bethesda's Fallout titles. In fact, this is also present in ESO, except that it is restricted to consumables. In this sense, ESO's approach is more realistic, because you cannot have three greatswords, two bows, a crossbow, and a greataxe all strapped to your person at all times.

Ahnog · June 2018

I for one am new, but I think combat and weapon swapping are good.

AcadianPaladin · June 2018

My stamsorc already runs bow/bow. My magsorc already runs destro/destro. That said, I think this proposal is a bad idea. most of my fellow stamsorcs use a classic bow/dw build. And my healer runs resto/destr because she needs Eledrain and wants blockade. Lots of examples of characters that depend on two weapons. Realistic? For an archer to pull out a back up dagger? Sure it is. My healer ignores the rp aspect of it and intentionally makes her resto/destro staves look identical - pretends she only has one staff.

Now, my two that run same weapon on both bars do enjoy a nice advantage of selecting which skills go on which bar independent of weapon. My magsorc, for example, loves that she has blockade on her front bar and Eledrain on her back (buff/debuff) bar.

Eidt: I wouldn't hold up Skyrim for weapon/skill use. I came from the very smooth weapon/skill interface of Oblvion and was dismayed at the unacceptable clunky hand micromanagement in Skyrim. Were it not for mods to fix that fatal flaw I would have rage quit Skyrim. Would not play Skyrim without lotsa combat mods.

Shad0wfire99 · June 2018

Elves, Cat People, Lizard People, Deadra, and wizards seem pretty unrealistic, too, tbh.

karekiz · June 2018

Only one weapon type would hurt Stam builds imo. It would either be all DW or...well all DW. Nobody is gonna take a Bow only build over a stave build for "range only" dps. Its just with summerset that something like bow/bow is slightly viable, and that's for certain classes.

DanteYoda · June 2018

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Kuwhar wrote: »

I love a good bit of realism, but if you are that concerned with it just use the same weapon on both bars and set your second outfit to match your first.

That way all that really happens is your skill bar changes and a little stutter.

Also i recall in skyrim you could swap weapons at a click, or between magic and weapons at a click.

I dont think it needs changing in ESO though i like the skill system

In Skyrim you can pause the game mid-weapon-swing, go into your inventory and drink 30 potions, change out weapons, and adjust the difficulty setting, all while watching a guide on YouTube while drinking coffee, then unpause the game and one-shot a saber-tooth cat.

I know Skyrim was pretty awesome wasn't it.