ZOS How You're DIRECTLY Encouraging Toxic Behavior

Gythral · June 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · June 2018

This text wall to complain partial looting of resources nodes and chests.
Speaking of toxic.

Leandor · June 2018

srfrogg23 wrote: »

The respawn timer starts on nodes and chests the first time someone interacts with them. It doesn’t matter if they’re empty or still full, they will despawn and respawn on their own.

Find less populated areas to farm.

I see this argument again and again. It's a strawman. This timer is somewhere next to 10, 15 minutes as I have seen the same already opened chest sometimes two or three rounds on my farm runs and it takes plenty of time until it respawns full.

The fact that there is a respawn timer for partially looted nodes doesn't change the fact that the behaviour of cherrypicking significantly reduces other players chances of getting the precious loot that everyone hopes for.

So please stop bringing this argument up in this context. It does nothing for this issue.

MehrunesFlagon · June 2018

What happens when you don't have enough space in your inventory?I am saying this with full intent on looting everything of course.

Ackwalan · June 2018

Leandor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

The respawn timer starts on nodes and chests the first time someone interacts with them. It doesn’t matter if they’re empty or still full, they will despawn and respawn on their own.

Find less populated areas to farm.

I see this argument again and again. It's a strawman. This timer is somewhere next to 10, 15 minutes as I have seen the same already opened chest sometimes two or three rounds on my farm runs and it takes plenty of time until it respawns full.

The fact that there is a respawn timer for partially looted nodes doesn't change the fact that the behaviour of cherrypicking significantly reduces other players chances of getting the precious loot that everyone hopes for.

So please stop bringing this argument up in this context. It does nothing for this issue.

Wait a second. If you come across an empty chest, that is the fault of whoever took the stuff. If you pass the same empty chest a second and third time on your rounds, that's on you for leaving trash in it.

Chaos2088 · June 2018

Wow much anger....

So Hate.....

Much not sorry....

*In the end of the day this is a game.....a game......A GAME!!!! Not life....simply if do not like it, go play something else. Simples.

Fherrit · June 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

Fherrit wrote: »

and if they dont want to delete anything because nothings trash? yep, you're forcing them to miss out on something they got to before you did. Fair game buddy. Leave it as is, and just delete all the accounts of the serial whingers who demand zos do something because someone else got to a node/chest first and they got a choice of what they wanted to take and it wasnt 'all'.

the toxic behaviour comes from people like the OP of this thread. Not the people who partially loot.

Well @Slick_007 here's a idear, how about you hit a merchant during your runs and unload stuff? Or port to a bank and deposit your gains? If you have the assistants, you can do this while one the go, granted not everyone has these but if not everyone has access to wayshrines.

I'm sorry but your protest doesn't really bring to light issues with the idea. What it does do is encourage toxic behavior who DO partially loot. You KNOW this is part of the problem, not the solution. It benefits not a single living soul, there's simply no way you can justify this as being reasonable and you know this.

Again, the solution is very simple, egalitairion and simply has a measure of respect for the time of ALL and commonly available means to manage their inventory accordingly. It seems to me @Slick_007 that you're advocating partial looting, which is clearly toxic to the player base as a whole. Nothing prevents you from pausing in your run, accessing a wayshrine and hitting a banker, or summoning one if you have access to one. But what does prevent me and others from getting a fair access to a node is partial looting. THis is simply indisputable, if you take the cherry off the top and I as well as others as are left with the leftovers which we have no idea we're wasting our time on till we access the node, the only one who gets punished is the rest of us AFTER you've gotten your gain.

If all or nothing looting is implemented, you still can make a choice, you still have the means the to fully manage your inventory while you do a resource run. NOTHING about this proposal impacts you negatively, it does however prevent you from leaving the junk for others to clean up after you. I have to ask, who's being more selfish here? Me for suggesting this be all or nothing to benefit everyone, or you for catering to toxic looting practices?

Imza · June 2018

I can understand why some people don't take everything from chests or nodes. Whether that is via an addon or personally selecting the items and leaving "the trash" behind.

I followed someone today who was taking the regulus from nodes and leaving the ore... I took the ore.

Regardless of the reason it is left if I find it, I clean it out... If I don't want the item - it gets sold, refined or deconned like everything else I pick up.

I am not annoyed anymore it took me some time playing this game to realise that other people don't play the same way I do.

Stealing a chest when someone else is trying to pick the lock - that is absolutely not nice behaviour - that is what I call TOXIC

Leandor · June 2018

Ackwalan wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

The respawn timer starts on nodes and chests the first time someone interacts with them. It doesn’t matter if they’re empty or still full, they will despawn and respawn on their own.

Find less populated areas to farm.

I see this argument again and again. It's a strawman. This timer is somewhere next to 10, 15 minutes as I have seen the same already opened chest sometimes two or three rounds on my farm runs and it takes plenty of time until it respawns full.

The fact that there is a respawn timer for partially looted nodes doesn't change the fact that the behaviour of cherrypicking significantly reduces other players chances of getting the precious loot that everyone hopes for.

So please stop bringing this argument up in this context. It does nothing for this issue.

Wait a second. If you come across an empty chest, that is the fault of whoever took the stuff. If you pass the same empty chest a second and third time on your rounds, that's on you for leaving trash in it.

Wow, way to go. If I see an unlocked chest that I can be absolutely sure of to not contain anything useful anymore, you say I am to blame for not being the rubbish collector?

That is a new low.

Fischblut · June 2018

I support any ideas:

- node becomes bound to the first who picked it and disappears for anyone else
- forced autoloot together with need to have at least 3 inventory slots free before trying to pick a node/heavy sack and 5 free slots for chest (else the interaction in grayed out same as when you try to pickpocket with full inventory)
- and my absolute favourite! Jerks are free to partially loot anything they want as they do now, but... If you partially loot crafting material, next 24 hours you can't loot any crafting node at all

Same for chests and heavy sacks. This would force person to be responsible - not cause of other people since he already doesn't care about those who will pick his trash - but cause he will be forced to think of his own successful farming

The choice - be a jerk and do not be able to farm for the whole next day, or be responsible and farm as much as you wish.

RANKK7 · June 2018

Fherrit wrote: »

"Stealing" Chests from those who failed their first attempt at a picking...yeah I've been a victim of that a few times myself. Do I like it? No. Do I want ZOS to come in and fix it? No. The reason being I had a FAIR shot at it, I failed and though it's a d-bag move, its the price I pay for not being better at picking the lock to identify the right people to put on my ignore list. These days that rarely happens to me, but I never go after a chest if someone else is at it.

Fixed. Anyways, it's same for me, I don't go after a chest or node if someone else already spotted it and is running, it's just seem wrong and even dumb, not last is gross.
Yesterday though something incredible happened: I arrived at one platinum node at the same time with a guy, he was a cp500+ so not even a new player, I think I saw the node before him and it was that way because he stopped and waited, letting me pick the node.
I said: ty, he said: np
I said: it's rare to see
He said: it's fair
I asked to trade, I gave him 10k, it actually has been refreshing to see such class and politeness.

I don't say it's always clear to recognize if one spotted what first, but most of the time it is and there is so much rudeness around, classy people is rare.

Fherrit · June 2018

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Wow much anger....

So Hate.....

Much not sorry....

*In the end of the day this is a game.....a game......A GAME!!!! Not life....simply if do not like it, go play something else. Simples.

Yes, it's a game, and I try to retain a perspective as such. But just because it's a game doesn't mean behavior that's negative to the community can't be or shouldn't be addressed. If you had a game that suggested smacking children upside the head with a bat earns you $$ wouldn't be harshly judged by society you're in denial. Negative behavior when it's encouraged in any setting is simply negative, regardless what form it's in.

Behavior in a game is either encouraged by coding or discouraged by it, if you have a exploit and people abuse it, we all rally behind the fix to handle the exploit. There might be debate over whether or not the exploit was done knowingly or not and how much punishment is due, however anyone but those benefiting from the exploit agree that it should be fixed.

But this isn't about punishing anyone, it's about cleaning up poorly thought out looting code. Because the loot code is poorly thought out/implemented, it encourages toxic behavior that negatively impacts the community at large, even though it's "just a game" it is however a communiity and things that have a negative impact on the behavior of said community (due to game coding) should be addressed by the coders.

Let me restate, I'm not for punitive retroactive action, I'm saying that the way the coding is right now, it encourages toxic behavior. Do I hate the people who partially loot and cherry pick? No. I'm annoyed by it when I encounter it, but I recognize that the only reason this can take place is because ZOS coded it as such. If ZOS didn't allow partial looting from day one, no one would have issue with it would they? No one could leave junk behind for others to clean up. All anyone would do is occassionally pause, hit a wayshrine or delete to make room and go on about their business.

But because how ZOS allows partial looting, it has a negative impact on the time of their player base. Sure, if you're the guy who gets the gold drop or whatever from a resource node it's all good, but for the many who are left to pick up the left overs it's not. It's in fact a disrespectful insult to their game time. Note: Again, I do NOT blame the players. I blame ZOS, if they'd have coded it differently things would play out differently.

And it's time to call ZOS out on how they're promoting toxicity when it comes to harvesting resources. Partial looting is a problem caused by ZOS. So it's on them to fix it. ANd if such a fix as proposed goes through, no one is harmed by it, everyone benefits. It's not a huge debilitating chore to have players go through their inventory and delete/deposit various items, we all do it every day constantly. Objections to this is merely protectionism rather than maintaining the health of the community and the game.

Partial looting is a negative element, all or nothing addresses this and doesn't negatively impact anyone. When I do a resource gathering run, I'll wayshrine to a banker and clear out inventory. I seriously doubt this is a unusual practice. However, wasting time tapping a node and getting nothing but worms? Yeah, that IS a negative impact. Let me repeat, I do NOT blame the players, they're only doing what ZOS allows them to do with the code as it is. But I'm calling it out for what it is.

All or nothing looting doesn't hurt anyone, even those who engage in partial looting right now have easy access to wayshrines (as intended) or Assistants (again as intended and it even encourages those who don't have the Banker to acquire one). At the worst partial looters will either pause to hit a wayshrine and tap a banker, or buy a assistant, and yet they are not negatively impacted from such a change for they too will find fresh nodes/chests and know it as being worth their time. There simply is no downside here to anyone.

Seri · June 2018

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

What happens when you don't have enough space in your inventory?I am saying this with full intent on looting everything of course.

Apparently that's your own fault for not managing your inventory better, as per an earlier post in this thread.

Lylith wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that so many people would waste their time cherry picking nodes rather than just grabbing everything and moving on.

But if they are, it would probably be because their inventory is full. So do you propose that they can't unlock a chest if they don't have X number of slots available? Or that they will be able to grab everything from the chest/node regardless of whether their inventory is full or not?

I propose that is common decency to fully loot the node.

If someone is unable to loot the entire node, maybe it is time for them to move on.

At least in my case, realisation that the last node or chest I looted didn't vanish is when I do go and decon/debag. The problem is still a left-over node I either need to find something to trash, RTS or leave.

Greevir wrote: »

MalsvirIxen wrote: »

I don't think I've encountered this problem in a long while. I do however see people complain about other players stealing chests right out from under them because they either broke their lockpick or were busy fighting a mob that noticed them. I myself have been known to steal chests right out from under people (especially Master Chests) and I really couldn't care about how that affects the other person. My character is a *** 99% of the time to anyone and everything. Its just a game.

Yeah, I'll sit and watch a player picking the lock. If they fail, the chest is mine. They had their chance.

Seems pretty petty if you have the time to sit and watch someone pick a lock. Are you that desperate for gear that you'd spend 10-15s waiting for someone else to see if they fail rather than continue on?

lordspyder wrote: »

I don't know, grabbing a chest under a person is annoying but ultimately part of the game and I can accept that. But cherry picking a chest is just a *** move.

Who's at fault if first person picks chest, grabs all but one item because their inventory filled up unknowingly, goes into bag to free one space, and the other person steals it from under their nose? :P

one should learn better inventory management and the other should learn to be less of a d-bag.

mongoLC · June 2018

we need more toxic behavior its good for your soul, good for the game, and makes you a he-man!
Oh but stop with the mom jokes man that's just to far I love my mom.

Maura_Neysa · June 2018

Sure this is annoying, but so is going back to a city to to sell off everything or going line by line to destroy things when you dont have inventory space/portable mechant/ESO Plus.

A much better solution would be to just put a timer on it, just like in dungeons. Once "X" has been opened it will despawn in 5 minutes (or however long)

The toxicity in the game is much less resource farming by actual players and far more farming by bots, the spew that is often in zone chat, and the players who think that everyone needs to play it there way. It is just a game after all and some people do not care at all that there DPS will never be over 15k, Vet DLC dungeons will never be part of there day, and making the perfect house is the greatest accomplishment in the game.

The title is not just clickbait, but the post itself is toxicity.

Seri · June 2018

Fischblut wrote: »

I support any ideas:

- node becomes bound to the first who picked it and disappears for anyone else
- forced autoloot together with need to have at least 3 inventory slots free before trying to pick a node/heavy sack and 5 free slots for chest (else the interaction in grayed out same as when you try to pickpocket with full inventory)
- and my absolute favourite! Jerks are free to partially loot anything they want as they do now, but... If you partially loot crafting material, next 24 hours you can't loot any crafting node at all Same for chests and heavy sacks. This would force person to be responsible - not cause of other people since he already doesn't care about those who will pick his trash - but cause he will be forced to think of his own successful farming The choice - be a jerk and do not be able to farm for the whole next day, or be responsible and farm as much as you wish.

If #3 was to ever be implemented there would need to be a cooldown / timeout on it hitting, as there is no reason to punish someone for backing out of a node or chest to spend a minute or two clearing out their bag / inventory to make room for remaining items. I'd also hope that it would not include any chests or sacks within any instanced delve, and also excludes any mobs, bosses or NPCs (each of the above, after all, are 'lootable nodes' in some sense).

zyk · June 2018

This was a lot worse before craft bags, but yeah, it's annoying. If you do it, you're selfish. There's not much else to say.

Glaiceana · June 2018

Maybe I've been lucky, but I've honestly barely encountered this behaviour since I started the game. Seems to have suddenly returned. I normally farm a nice route I found in Wrothgar, and noticed the chests and rune nodes partially looted not long after Summerset was available.
I agree that maybe autoloot should be default.
Personally I like going through and deconstructing/selling all my loot. The amount of materials I have from doing this is insane

AuldWolf · June 2018

The obvious solution to this?

Player instanced nodes.

Benefits:

- If you half-loot a node, you're not harming anyone else by doing so;
- Encourages social play, with people actually sharing and helping one another out instead of being cagey and hostile around one another due to artificial scarcity which isn't helped by all the bots (which we'll never be rid of);
- People can gather wherever they want instead of having to try to find the least player congested area to 'hide out' in.

Downsides:

- It might drive the market price of mats down slightly which some greedy people care about way, way too much (it really wouldn't affect market prices that much as GW2 shows, and there are other items like recipes and traits which would still sell for plenty);
- Um... that's it.

It's a no-brainer, really. It's one of the few things about ESO that feels truly archaic.

Fherrit · June 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Sure this is annoying, but so is going back to a city to to sell off everything or going line by line to destroy things when you dont have inventory space/portable mechant/ESO Plus.

A much better solution would be to just put a timer on it, just like in dungeons. Once "X" has been opened it will despawn in 5 minutes (or however long)

The toxicity in the game is much less resource farming by actual players and far more farming by bots, the spew that is often in zone chat, and the players who think that everyone needs to play it there way. It is just a game after all and some people do not care at all that there DPS will never be over 15k, Vet DLC dungeons will never be part of there day, and making the perfect house is the greatest accomplishment in the game.

The title is not just clickbait, but the post itself is toxicity.

I might not agree with the post being toxic, but at the same time, I think your ideal is golden. Despawn after being tapped is a very good excellent solution. So tipping my hat to you for that, if not loot all, despawn right after tapping the chest/resource node would get my vote. Thanks @Maura_Neysa, that's a very solid, elegant solution.

A quick address to "just a game". Your time in a game, or anything for that matter, is a finite thing. We are often dismissive of this as a whole, but think on this: Every second of your life is the ONE resource you can never replenish. Anything that diminishes the worth of those seconds is a bad thing, with those seconds adding up. Don't we have enough crap in our lives adding up to poorly spent seconds that in a game they should NOT be endorsed?

In fact, because its a game, your time investment should be trivialized less and rewarded more. IMHO.

Everstorm · June 2018

I don't do much heavy node farming but I often take most if not all nodes I come across when running from a to b. And I rarely encounter half looted node or chests, playing on PC EU. Don't even remember the last time this happened. Maybe I'm just lucky but I wonder how big this issue really is.
But I also find it amusing that I can play a psychotic, genocidal vampire assassin but some people expect her to be a helpful, considerate person anyway.

bellatrixed · June 2018

I dislike the hostile tone and overuse of the word "toxic", I don't think it's toxic, it's just annoying.

But you can blame F2P players for this. There's no reason to waste your own time picking through node loot unless you don't have the craft bag. So, it makes sense that the subset of the playerbase that screams the loudest about how they should be entitled to everything without paying for it would be the most inconsiderate.

YMMV

Maura_Neysa · June 2018

Fherrit wrote: »

A quick address to "just a game". Your time in a game, or anything for that matter, is a finite thing. We are often dismissive of this as a whole, but think on this: Every second of your life is the ONE resource you can never replenish. Anything that diminishes the worth of those seconds is a bad thing, with those seconds adding up. Don't we have enough crap in our lives adding up to poorly spent seconds that in a game they should NOT be endorsed?

In fact, because its a game, your time investment should be trivialized less and rewarded more. IMHO.

@Fherrit So "your" one second is more valuable then the the "other guys" one second. So kick them from the normal dungeon run because they hit like a wet noddle? To be clear, that would be a cause of what I personally would describe as toxic behavior. My point is that my lost 1 second (or 10 extra minutes in a dungeon) isn't worth that persons lost re-que time, or that person lost day because I soured their mood by booting them. Or there lost 10 minutes traveling to a city every half hour to free up space. Or there lost experience because they process of acquiring the resources to improve themselves was just to painful.

bellatrixed · June 2018

Generally speaking, the people who go out of their way to be jerks in a game "because it's a game" don't limit that behavior to games.

I don't get my jollies by inconveniencing people, no matter if it's IRL or in a game. If you do, that's not something to be proud of.

I've kicked people from my guild for trolling, stealing quest mobs, or otherwise acting in an ugly way to other players.

It's a game, but if you think it's fun to be an ass in the game, you're probably just an ass.

Minyassa · June 2018

Player-instanced nodes wouldn't do anything to the market. There are people who do not like gathering mats and prefer to buy them to balance the people who spend a lot of extra time doing it. The only people who suffer from making resource nodes player-instanced are people who are so combative and competitive that they absolutely must have a PvP angle in every aspect of the game or their *** will fall right off their bodies.

I also suggest putting a 1 minute timer on chests before they can be unlocked by a different player than the last one who attempted to unlock it.

shaielzafine · June 2018

AuldWolf wrote: »

The obvious solution to this?

Player instanced nodes.

Benefits:

- If you half-loot a node, you're not harming anyone else by doing so;
- Encourages social play, with people actually sharing and helping one another out instead of being cagey and hostile around one another due to artificial scarcity which isn't helped by all the bots (which we'll never be rid of);
- People can gather wherever they want instead of having to try to find the least player congested area to 'hide out' in.

Downsides:

- It might drive the market price of mats down slightly which some greedy people care about way, way too much (it really wouldn't affect market prices that much as GW2 shows, and there are other items like recipes and traits which would still sell for plenty);
- Um... that's it.

It's a no-brainer, really. It's one of the few things about ESO that feels truly archaic.

Agree 100% with this. I actually enjoy farming in GW2, I enjoy running into other people also farming, and we all can still sell the materials for a decent price in the universal auction house. In ESO I hate running into other people doing my route or when they "steal" my nodes that I saw first. So I don't even farm in ESO, and I just spend my time doing something else like pvp or playing a completely different game.

WarMasterCyp · June 2018

srfrogg23 wrote: »

The respawn timer starts on nodes and chests the first time someone interacts with them. It doesn’t matter if they’re empty or still full, they will despawn and respawn on their own.

Find less populated areas to farm.

Yeah you are right.

xeNNNNN · June 2018

Its annoying sure but toxic? thats a bit of a stretch.

I get more than enough of my own private nodes from surveys maps. Hm Chests? well I dont farm gear from chests frankly. Its beyond tedious and boring and a majority of the good sets dont even wind up in chests baring maybe The sun set or something. Ill often only open chest and take all the contents because I am trying to level one of the world skill trees for the force lock and sneak passives on a character.

Seriously a more reasonable thought process rather than making a large thread about it is too simply request the removal of crawlers and worms from nodes. Crawlers and worms really only have one purpose; Fishing and they are acquired in abundance through other methods.

As for chests? Seriously....MEH.

Lysette · June 2018

Whilst I think that "all or nothing" is by principle a good thing - how will this be handled then, if a player does not have enough free inventory slots for all of the items in that node?- Especially new players would have quite a problem to harvest anything really, because they are low on inventory while not having the coin for a decent inventory upgrade yet.

abigfishy · June 2018

I have ESO+ so I just always loot all. Problem solved.